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Chat General Discussion About The Nissan 240SX and Nissan Z Cars |
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06-07-2023, 11:05 AM | #61 |
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I'll never understand people who pay stupid money for stupid things unless you're restoring something or a purist - even then, we probably won't see eye to eye which I guess is okay. But for us that are always seeking 'more reliable power,' there is so much more out there. The initial cost for brackets and hardware and shit may shy some away, but throwing in a $300 junkyard motor one after the other with endless supply both of engines and parts is too hard to pass up.
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06-08-2023, 08:31 AM | #62 | |
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If you look at the ebay history some of them have been "sold" but they're up for sale again. Could be the buyers flaked or that the engine has some demons. Tough pill to swallow at $8K either way. |
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06-09-2023, 08:16 AM | #63 |
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I recently sold my complete swap - including transmission, clutch, driveshaft, FMIC, literally EVERYTHING - for $4,500 and it took my literally months. I don't know how someone can ask $8,000 for something you could have gotten a couple years ago for $3,000 all day. For $8,000, the alternative motors are more stout and reliable with an off-the-shelf solution for every issue. I don't understand [unless you're restoring a car, but even then, it won't be true 'numbers matching'].
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06-10-2023, 06:46 AM | #65 | |
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the hobbie of liking the sound of l6, turbo, having a beautiful looking engine in your bay just got almost twice as expensive, but nobody is forcing us.
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06-10-2023, 12:02 PM | #66 |
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Yes, just like any other vintage parts it's in large part because we like keeping the cars 'period correct' as opposed to either 100% original or just whatever is the latest flavor of best. Why build a hot rod with a Buick nailhead instead of an LS? Why build a Fox Body with a 5.0 instead of an LS? etc.
Just like the other thread about resellers, the only thing that mystifies me is really where this demand is that's driving the prices. Again I look around and I see LS and JZ swaps are what's "hot"... so I dunno how a basic bitch redtop SR with a billion miles on it, broken rockers and rod knock goes for $4500. I get the nostalgia market, of course I know him, he's me. |
06-10-2023, 05:55 PM | #67 |
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Inflation is a bitch.
2005 a $2000 Red Top is $3,300 in 2023 dollars. For comparison a a Ford Ecoboost 2.3 is $3,500 for a long block. I'm more surprised at how expensive GM LS engines remain despite having millions built. A truck 6.2 is still $4,000. |
06-11-2023, 12:56 AM | #69 |
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I think Japanese inefficiency spoiled people. No US wrecker would sell a complete engine, with accessories, and harness and ECU, and transmission for what the Japanese did. Here, we strip it down to the long block, selling the manifolds, accessories, harnesses, fuel rails, etc all separate. Selling the trans and ECU separate etc. I suspect, 20 years ago, people would have gladly paid $3,500+ for an SR20. The only issue was l, why do that when you can pay $2k? Maybe if this shit was more expensive then, people would have value it more and we'd see more of it today. |
06-12-2023, 07:52 AM | #70 | |
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I understand the stock is slowly diminishing but there has to be a certain point you have to be like 'hey, there are better, more modern options for less.' If you're building a 'period correct' car, cool. Whatever. Don't read this comment. For everyone else who has a job and wants to go out there sliding without worrying about throwing rocker arms or needing an immediately turbo upgrade just to keep up, this is for you. Inflation sucks. Spending more money to have something less powerful/reliable sucks worse. |
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06-12-2023, 10:18 AM | #71 | |
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My question is, what happened to all the imported engines? Did they all really end up in the scrapped? |
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06-12-2023, 10:43 AM | #72 | |
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A lot of them are in cars, and running A lot of them are in people's derelict garage furniture, not running. Especially when something expensive breaks that's beyond the skills/budget required to slap in a stock SR swap back when they were cheap. And most critically a lot of them are sitting for sale on FBM but unlike the JDM engine importers, the private sellers who own them can't easily palletize and freight them to you. I've seen lots of reasonably priced SRs pop up on FBM but they're just in some guy's garage in Georgia or something which is no good if you're nowhere near Georgia. |
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06-12-2023, 10:45 AM | #73 |
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Half of them were neglected and JDM cool kids threw rods/destroyed the heads and turned them into tables, a quarter of them are running, and a quarter are sitting on a shelf to either be tossed/built/resold.
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06-13-2023, 03:23 AM | #74 |
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Back in the day the overall second hand market for used parts/engines was a lot more centralized than it is today. For example, here in Europe when I was looking for a certain part I'd just check all the european S-chassis forums and eventually find what I was looking for. Now, with most forums dead or on life support, 5000 different Facebook sales groups, and an absolutely useless FBM search it has become impossible to find stuff. Even if it is out there.
I'm sure the supply for used engines has dropped, but after 5 months of searching all websites I could think of for a SR20 and not being able to search FBM outside my own country I've given up. I think with less and less young people being able to afford to get into this hobby a significant majority of the engines that still exist will just be sitting in peoples garages that have plans to use them one day but life got in the way.
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06-13-2023, 06:04 AM | #75 |
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The dying trend of forums [and for those lifers, we've seen Zilvia fall a few times] is definitely contributing to the scarcity and difficulty to locate stuff. People just don't check this shit like they used to. FBM is absolute garbage.
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06-13-2023, 01:21 PM | #76 | ||
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I gave up on my dream of an RB swapped S14. It would be just too much money at this point so when I saw the SR I jumped on it. now its sitting in the workship while I bought swap parts though had to 7pause it as I rebuilding my LM7 for my Silverado first.
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06-13-2023, 01:25 PM | #77 | |
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Dude. FBM should be considered a crime against humanity. It destroyed Craigslist, and Craigslist was actually at least searchable and free of all that Alibaba garbage ads. |
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06-13-2023, 01:55 PM | #78 |
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Craigslist kind of killed themselves by charging $5 for car listings. I'm sure the business case worked out and that did get rid of all the $2000 Toyota Tacoma with a fake gmail address scam ads (they're all on FBM now) but it also basically killed the entire $1000 beater car market.
The search on FBM is inscrutable. But it's just the most egregious example as everyone's search results are streamlined and massaged heavily now. I can be looking right at a listing, search for the title of the listing, and it won't appear. I've got a set of new in box Hawk brake pads for a ton of Toyota/Scion applications, my eBay listing has been up for literal years even at a drastically lower price than retail because I don't come up in search results. |
06-13-2023, 03:05 PM | #79 | |
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Of course, if you want CHEAP, you could also look at Pick-and-Pull for an LH6. This is an aluminum 5.3, somewhat like the L33. But unlike that motor, it came in some obscure stuff such as the Isuzu Ascender and a Saab SUV of some sort. The people who sell these things to Pick-and-Pull don?t know or care that the engine may be somewhat desirable. And nobody thinks to look for an aluminum LS engine in these things. So you can get these motors REALLY cheap. |
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06-14-2023, 06:33 AM | #80 | |
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06-14-2023, 07:35 AM | #81 | |
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06-14-2023, 08:28 AM | #82 |
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A couple years ago when I first started V8'ing literally everything, a true LS1 was around $1,100 fully dressed and a 5.3/5.7/6.0 from a truck was under $500 all day long. Prices haven't swung too much in the North East yet but after you've taken that initial investment of a swap kit and all that, how do you beat tossing in junkyard motors for a couple hundred when they pop rather than trying to source/repair a SR for ten times that just to make less power and it be less reliable? The mindset is what I'm trying to understand.
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06-15-2023, 01:52 AM | #84 | |
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With the value of these cars soaring and now reaching collector status, it makes sense to me that people want to build their cars true to the original formula.
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06-15-2023, 06:38 AM | #85 | |
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The only documented sales we have are on auction sites like BaT where they rarely exceed $15k for the cleanest of clean examples. Be it engine prices or entire car prices, people see these asking prices and conflate them with what the sale price is or its true market value. |
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06-15-2023, 08:06 AM | #86 |
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There is truth, though, that scarcity increases prices. The newest S13 is 29 years old, the oldest 35 years old. The newest SR20DET out of an S15 is 21 years old.
Even the newest RB26 is 21 years old. Good stuff is drying up. The people who stumble across good stuff at good prices have been looking for a while or have built up a knowledge base and connection base that makes their product worth more. If I wasn't in the financial doldrums right now because I'm a lazy asshole with too many projects, I'd be in the "willing to pay $20k+ for a very nice S13" camp. |
06-15-2023, 08:22 AM | #87 | |
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If you told me a few years ago how much I was going to spend on my S14 over a 2 year period, I would have just bought something like an M3/M4 instead. |
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06-15-2023, 09:54 AM | #88 | |
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06-15-2023, 02:32 PM | #89 | |
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I've spent the last several years really thinking about what I want in life. I bought an S13 for a commercial a few years back and it reminded me about how much I enjoyed my car daily. I ended up selling that car because it was going to be way, way too expensive to build into something decent but it reminded me how good the base car is and how much I like the S-chassis in terms of an overall experience. Every day, I'm able to jump in a Porsche built between 1955 and 2022. I get that experience through work. But I don't have the smells of the car I bought in 2004 and turned into a track car by 2008. I don't have the ergonomics, the little things like the operation of the stalks and the way the doors used to close. I can't put those Porsches on the wheels I loved when I was 20 and still love. Those Porsches weren't on the cover of Doriten and Battle and Option. I wasn't downloading videos of Porsches on KaZaa. So I'm going to buy an S-chassis and either get the early 911 I own drivable or I'm going to buy a project Elan or Lancia Fulvia. That way I get my vintage car scratch itched and my S-chassis build base bought. Eventually, I'll be putting an SR in my time attack build. It's not going to make enough power and it's going to be expensive as hell to get where I need it to be, but it's going to make the noises I remember and it's going to finally check the "owned an S-chassis with an SR" box. |
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06-15-2023, 07:10 PM | #90 | |
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So I say if you want a V8, GO FOR IT! Project cars are not about doing what is supposedly ‘right’, ‘good’, or ‘proper’. Because all that stuff is boring anyway. Oh, and let’s not forget that, even if you go for something ‘appropriate’ like an SR swap, you’re altering your car. Although the engine DID come in the S chassis, it didn’t come in YOUR car. You are still changing the ‘original formula’ and possibly reducing the value compared to something 100% original. |
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