Subaru BRZ = 240sx Successor

[simmode1]

On an unrelated note: Anybody know where I can find performance specs for the SW20 MR2? I'm talking 0-60, slalom, skidpad, braking, etc? Preferably turbo.

[Dutchmalmiss]

Originally Posted by simmode1

On an unrelated note: Anybody know where I can find performance specs for the SW20 MR2? I'm talking 0-60, slalom, skidpad, braking, etc? Preferably turbo.

Don't know how credible this is, but it's the only thing I found with more data than 0-60.

'93 MR-2
200hp turbo I4
0-60: 6.1secs
1/4 mile: 14.7 @94mph
skidpad: 0.91g

Year Make Model Engine HP Torque 0-60 ¼ Mile Skidpad

[simmode1]

Thanks! Just what I was looking for. Too bad 240's and FC's aren't on there for comparison. But on the other hand, FD's and MKIV Supras cleaned up for the imports...

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

Don't know how credible this is, but it's the only thing I found with more data than 0-60.

'93 MR-2
200hp turbo I4
0-60: 6.1secs
1/4 mile: 14.7 @94mph
skidpad: 0.91g

Year Make Model Engine HP Torque 0-60 ¼ Mile Skidpad

ya that chart has wild swings in skidpad ratings for same vehicles for instance they have the Supra Turbo running anywhere from .98-.94 which on the high side pretty amazing and suggest modded suspensions. I don't recall people talking about its amazing skidpad rating. Just that it was a great car but heavy. As are almost all Toyota's except the 80's MR2 MKI and Corolla and the MRS and FRS are heavy by nature. LOL

Also that MR2 rating is anywhere from 0.86 which I believe to .91 which would be with upgraded suspension as well.

I have owned and driven MKII MR2's and while they are fun to drive. They have a break away point where they just want to spin and not nicely Heavy for what they are,. nott a bad car but not really forgiving at all. Definitely does not lend itself to doing any drifting.

Oh and that list does not even have 240sx's and does have a Z32 300ZX pulling anywhere from .88 - .95 which suggests stock to modified too . It also has a R34 pulling the same numbers as a stock 240sx.

That list is very suspect, as it suggest modified cars without saying so. That should be taken into account before using it as a reference point.

[enkei2k]

BRZ STi is coming

http://jalopnik.com/the-subaru-brz-s...ked-1024198473

STI

but wait, there's more not sure if the same or not but:

http://www.7tune.com/news-the-facts-...ti-ts-version/

[kamilitaryman]

^ fuck yes! I'd be in for one!

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by enkei2k

BRZ STi is coming

The Subaru BRZ STi Just Leaked

STI

but wait, there's more not sure if the same or not but:

NEWS – THE FACTS ABOUT THE BRZ STi tS VERSION : 7Tune.com

Until they confirm a factory turbo, I remain uninterested.

[tricky_ab]

Originally Posted by simmode1

Until they confirm a factory turbo, I remain uninterested.

I don't want to burst any bubbles but...

"STI is working on finalizing creation of the special version of BRZ, which would be unveiled in "some time" (secret). Turbocharger is NOT in the concept of this greatly balanced FR sports car, so we would concentrate our developments on suspension, handling, performance improvements and sports styling. The turbocharged version of BRZ will remain only in GT300 Championship."
-Hiroyuki Karamatsu, President of Subaru Tecnica International Inc. (STI)

There's more info over at FT86 Club forums... You guys can check out more info right here!

[s14SRguy]

my friend has a BRZ and my notch top zenki and my friends s13 redtop kick its ass all the time.

nissan should just bring back the s13, s14, and s15, but in the states. throw some sr20det's in that shit and bring it stateside.

Who wouldnt love buying a BRAND FUCKING NEW s13 in 2013?

that shit would be awesome. then i dont have to dodge cops and refs because of fucking california politrix and goverment extortion.

[180sxmaniac]

Originally Posted by tricky_ab

I don't want to burst any bubbles but...



There's more info over at FT86 Club forums... You guys can check out more info right here!

What a shame smh. This car has no hope. JDM rwd cars have no hope and frankly it's unfortunate and disappointing

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by enkei2k

BRZ STi is coming

http://jalopnik.com/the-subaru-brz-s...ked-1024198473

STI

but wait, there's more not sure if the same or not but:

NEWS – THE FACTS ABOUT THE BRZ STi tS VERSION : 7Tune.com

read the U.S. dollar price for that car $41k and no turbo!
Ya they are smoking some serious crack over in Japan. Suburu should just drop the BRZ leave the FRS/FT86 to Toyota and let Toyota Supercharge or turbo it themselves.
Hell Suburu U.S. is not selling tons of BRZ's anyways. Everyone can buy the same car from Scion for 2-3k less . ya it does not have a few interior bells and whistles but who cares..

This whole thing is turning into a joke on Suburu. Toyota is cleaning their clock.

[simmode1]

^^^Personally, I just can't imagine many shoppers walking into a Subaru dealer and passing over the WRX which is the exact same price as the BRZ with but has 65hp more.

[59bhp]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Hell Suburu U.S. is not selling tons of BRZ's anyways.

im not sure how it works in the us but in the uk subaru are only aloud to sell 1 brz for every ten toyotas.

Someone i know had to wait about 6 months for theirs (brz)

[DJ-of-E]

Originally Posted by simmode1

^^^Personally, I just can't imagine many shoppers walking into a Subaru dealer and passing over the WRX which is the exact same price as the BRZ with but has 65hp more.

And AWD for them snow and rain.

[SimpleS14]

Originally Posted by simmode1

^^^Personally, I just can't imagine many shoppers walking into a Subaru dealer and passing over the WRX which is the exact same price as the BRZ with but has 65hp more.

Some people might want a RWD coupe vs. a AWD sedan. Also, while this is subjective, the looks of the BRZ is more appealing than the WRX.

Originally Posted by 59bhp

im not sure how it works in the us but in the uk subaru are only aloud to sell 1 brz for every ten toyotas.

Someone i know had to wait about 6 months for theirs (brz)

It's very similar here in the US as well. I believe in some of the states they are already sold out.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by SimpleS14

Some people might want a RWD coupe vs. a AWD sedan. Also, while this is subjective, the looks of the BRZ is more appealing than the WRX.

I can understand this. I like the look of the BRZ more, I would prefer a RWD coupe as well. My only issue is that like simmode1 I cannot walk past a 265HP turbo car with potential to push the engine higher and pay more for an a car that has an engine that has less HP, and would require THOUSANDS of dollars more to make more HP.

I know it is not all about HP. I don't need a stock car that can pull lateral G's like a Porsche. I wouldn't mind modifying it to that though.

[simmode1]

^^^Exactly. I love RWD as much as the next guy. But the WRX just seems like a much better value than the BRZ to me. If they ever did decide to turbo the BRZ, I'd bet good money that It'll still make less stock hp than the WRX, but cost as much as the STI.

With the BRZ and WRX at the same price points, I find it hard to imagine how they'll both survive being in the same stable competing with each other.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

read the U.S. dollar price for that car $41k and no turbo!
Ya they are smoking some serious crack over in Japan. Suburu should just drop the BRZ leave the FRS/FT86 to Toyota and let Toyota Supercharge or turbo it themselves.
Hell Suburu U.S. is not selling tons of BRZ's anyways. Everyone can buy the same car from Scion for 2-3k less . ya it does not have a few interior bells and whistles but who cares..

This whole thing is turning into a joke on Suburu. Toyota is cleaning their clock.

It's true on sales. The BRZ is selling for about $2100 more then the FRS on average but for the first 12 months they were on sale 17,686 FES were sold versus just 6,744 BRZ's.

[Dutchmalmiss]

Safe to say Subaru could be throwing these into those end-of-the-year clearance sales?? Tempting.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

It's true on sales. The BRZ is selling for about $2100 more then the FRS on average but for the first 12 months they were on sale 17,686 FES were sold versus just 6,744 BRZ's.

Wow the numbers are even that low for the FRS. Seriously think about this for a moment. The First two years the 240sx was on sale they did 60k units per year. For the FRS to only have done 17,686 in its first year. Pretty much constitutes a failure in the automotive world.
Or is this a year to date figure? Which means the Year is officially complete? Because if its a full year figure its terrible.
If Nissan is watching this for a gauge to putting out a replacement for the 180sx/Silvia/240sx is does not bode well. They will see the numbers as insignificant.

Perhaps Toyota needs to step up their advertising game. Surely do not see many ads for the car now.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Wow the numbers are even that low for the FRS. Seriously think about this for a moment. The First two years the 240sx was on sale they did 60k units per year. For the FRS to only have done 17,686 in its first year. Pretty much constitutes a failure in the automotive world.
Or is this a year to date figure? Which means the Year is officially complete? Because if its a full year figure its terrible.
If Nissan is watching this for a gauge to putting out a replacement for the 180sx/Silvia/240sx is does not bode well. They will see the numbers as insignificant.

Perhaps Toyota needs to step up their advertising game. Surely do not see many ads for the car now.

It's not a failure if they had the business model to only sell that many. Cars in these segments just don't sell like they used to. Hell convertible sales are virtually non existent but Mazda has no plans on getting rid of it or calling it a failure now.

Different times man. Different times. What constituted as a failure in the 1990's doesn't hold true in now. The main thing is every single brand has very high volume cars now to supplement lower selling niche cars.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

It's not a failure if they had the business model to only sell that many. Cars in these segments just don't sell like they used to. Hell convertible sales are virtually non existent but Mazda has no plans on getting rid of it or calling it a failure now.

Different times man. Different times. What constituted as a failure in the 1990's doesn't hold true in now. The main thing is every single brand has very high volume cars now to supplement lower selling niche cars.

Ya but can you honestly tell me that Toyota's plan was to sell only 17k ? I know Suburu only planned to sell the car in limited amounts but I do not get the impression from Scion. Toyota started the Scion line to market to a younger crowd that would be upwardly mobile in their purchasing. Given that the car was brought in the Scion it stands to reason they were expecting better sales than they are getting. Now if you can show me fact that Indeed Toyota only planned to do limited production then your comment would hold water.
I also do not buy that what held true in the 90's does not hold true now. In essence what you are trying to claim with that comment is the general public is not interested in a entry level sports car anymore. Tell that to Porsche with Boxster and the Cayman Which do quite well for them. Or Mazda with the Miata.
Hell even the 350Z sold well for the first 3-4 years. The 370 has not done as well due to the fact that it came out in the height of the worst recession in over 50 years. Oh and Nissan does not really market it.

Like I said before a lot of this is about marketing nothing more. The more you market the more you are likely to sell if your product is good. If Toyota pushed marketing the FRS it most likely would sell a lot more.

Nissan initially marketed the 240sx the first year and a half it was out. They dropped marketing on it after that and sales plummeted.

I don't buy this times have changed crap people still want to buy sports cars. If they didn't companies like Porsche would be in serious trouble.
Oh and Jaguar would not have announced the stunning new F type.

Hell even Tesla manages to sell over priced Lotus bodied electric sports cars for $100k and people buy them just because they are electric sports cars. Its all marketing man.
The cars suck and you could buy a Lotus Exige for 1/3 the price and be better off. Yet you see more Tesla roadsters than the Lotus's .Marketing , Marketing , Marketing.
Build a decent car market it and the buyers will come. Another example is the Tesla Model S its selling like hotcakes here in California, marketing.

Image is marketing and that is why Toyota choose Scion for the FRS . Scion is not exactly considered a low volume brand in fact its a high volume brand.
So it stands to reason that they are failing in marketing not limiting the amount to be sold.

[Future240]

I don't know where he is getting the data from but a person on ft86 club is claiming 23K FRS sold to date and the BRZ is 8K

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10766

[SimpleS14]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

I don't buy this times have changed crap people still want to buy sports cars. If they didn't companies like Porsche would be in serious trouble.

People still want to buy body-on-frame SUVs too, but I will agree that times have changed. The number of people clamoring for these cars is lower than it use to be. (IMO) I also recall Porsche was in serious trouble at one point and now they are reaping a lot profits from the Cayenne and Panamera...two vehicles a lot of us didn't expect them to make.



I do agree with your statement about marketing being key though. I don't recall seeing any advertisement for the BRZ.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Future240

I don't know where he is getting the data from but a person on ft86 club is claiming 23K FRS sold to date and the BRZ is 8K

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10766

Well see even these numbers look a bit better. Put more advertising out there and I bet they would come up with some decent numbers at least on the Toyota side.
Plus It looks like that person numbers are probably on because they are taking the time to track it.

[VROOOM]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Hell even Tesla manages to sell over priced Lotus bodied electric sports cars for $100k and people buy them just because they are electric sports cars. Its all marketing man.
The cars suck and you could buy a Lotus Exige for 1/3 the price and be better off. Yet you see more Tesla roadsters than the Lotus's .Marketing , Marketing , Marketing.
Build a decent car market it and the buyers will come. Another example is the Tesla Model S its selling like hotcakes here in California, marketing.

.

according to Wiki the Tesla Roadster sold 2400 units from 2008-2012. thats 600 a year. sure they manage to sell them, but not many.

The Tesla S got amazing reviews from Consumer Reports(99 out of 100) which probably helped them sell as many as they did.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by VROOOM

according to Wiki the Tesla Roadster sold 2400 units from 2008-2012. thats 600 a year. sure they manage to sell them, but not many.

The Tesla S got amazing reviews from Consumer Reports(99 out of 100) which probably helped them sell as many as they did.

Not sure about Wiki man, They may or may not be right . Though maybe you missed my point. Tesla got a lot of Media face time which helped push their product. Media face time is marketing period.

Now 2400 Roadsters may not seem like a lot but believe it or not I am more likely to see a Tesla Roadster than its counterpart the Lotus on the road here.

Oh and Model S's are popping up all over the place and yes Consumer reports and lots of media coverage definitely helped. Though that goes right back to marketing. Build a good car and Market it and the customers will come and like I said earlier Media coverage is part of the marketing strategy.

[VROOOM]

i would say you see more Teslas because of where you live. California is one of the biggest Hybrid/Electric markets in the US.

i also looked up the Elise production numbers and in 2005 they sold amost as many Elise in the US(2363), then Tesla did in 5 years.

Consumers report does not get thier cars from the manufacturers, they purchase them outright at retail. Tesla had no say in the Consumer Reports media coverage. also CR will not let Tesla use any part of thier review in marketing of that product.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by VROOOM

i would say you see more Teslas because of where you live. California is one of the biggest Hybrid/Electric markets in the US.

i also looked up the Elise production numbers and in 2005 they sold amost as many Elise in the US(2363), then Tesla did in 5 years.

Consumers report does not get thier cars from the manufacturers, they purchase them outright at retail. Tesla had no say in the Consumer Reports media coverage. also CR will not let Tesla use any part of thier review in marketing of that product.

Great you win the numbers debate or do you? Has the Tesla Roadster been on sale for 5 years? Or are you just pulling that number out of air randomly as an example? You only cite 2005 of Elise sales to make your point why not the other years?

Seriously you still missed the point. Marketing, and oh don't answer those questions. The really don't need to be, why? Because the whole point was about Marketing and Media but you just want to turn it into a numbers game about Tesla.


I never said media utilization had to cost or be solicited. I seriously don't think you understand that any Media solicited or unsolicited is good media.
There is a reason the Rolling Stones pissed in Heathrow Airport in the 60's. They knew they would get massive media attention and media attention sells products.
I did not cite Consumer Reports as a Reason for Tesla Selling a fair amount of Model S's you did. I merely used your fact to make a point you have a hard time accepting.
In fact they got quite a bit of Media attention on TV as well CNBC did a whole segment about them more than once and even took one out and test drove it live.
Oh and CNBC is in Englewood Cliffs New Jersey just outside New York and I can bet there are bunch of Model S's there as well.
Marketing, Marketing, Marketing. It has worked for Tesla. Hell even in Chicago I saw people sporting Model S's, they are selling all over the country.


I am done with this on the subject of marketing if you can't understand it well......

[exitspeed]

This is not the plans of a company disappointed with a the sales numbers of a car.
Two new RWD Toyota sports cars to join FR-S? - Autoblog

I think you under estimate the amount of money Toyota has and how committed they are at changing their image.