The Future Automotive Thread

[dorkidori_s13]

my biggest issue with EVs (aside from lacking manual transmission or even proposed EMULATION of manual transmission via software and added hardware) is the 100% level of planned obsolescence!!!

ALL EVs and Hybrids have planned obsolescence built in from the get go that combustion based vehicles dont. Most current day EVs and Hybrids have a lifespan of ROUGHLY 4-7 years AT MOST before the battery has to be changed out as it will no longer hold a charge. At the end of the day, all manufacturers care about is making money (as any business does), and with EVs, manufacturers will have a MUCH easier time pushing new car sales. $12,000 to replace your worn out battery to make the car function again, or for $20,000 you can buy the brand new model! BAM! Instant sales pitch.

I for one am quite happy with combustion engines simply because, when properly cared for and maintained, they will last WELL into the 200k-300k range!

But MOST people arent like me, they dont like to hang on to cars... Most people gladly dump their vehicles around 5 years for a new shiny model with all the modern bells and whistles that they come to expect from technology moving forward. We as a society have become so obsessed with the idea of dumping something after 2-5 years that keeping anything longer feels like a lifetime. We have grown to take technology for granted, we dont want to understand it, we just want it to work... and that type of thinking has translated over to cars. EVs will be the shining example of planned obsolesce that started so long ago with the light bulb and pantyhose.

[simmode1]

^^^Where is this info about planned obsolescence regarding the batteries coming from? I know my wife's Prius battery is likely to exceed the life of the car and that thing is 14 years old already... Is this new?

Seems pretty silly of the car makers to do that. I know when we were shopping for our first hybrid, the biggest questions we had were how long does the battery last and how much does it cost to replace it? If we'd have gotten responses anywhere close to what you're implying, we never would have bought it. That would make them absolutely worthless for resale. Manufacturer reputation would tank, IMO.

BTW, Toyota only charges like $3500 to replace that generation's battery. But, since there are DIY instructions available & the cars are so cheap in the first place, most ppl don't even bother.

[cdlong]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Sad sad blasphemous day.

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Ok, and I posted about something happening right now. Not sure what the sarcastic “let’s talk about the s16 while we’re at it.” was about.

Nothing blasphemous really happened today, this has been in the rumor mill for years, coming up on decades. The "s16" kept coming up, often in this thread for years, though it has seemed to mostly die off. I'll believe it when I see it. Also, who cares? The Evo is a cool car, but Mitsubishi is on life support and needs to do something to sell cars. Capitalizing on the Evo name and new trends is grasping at straws, but the other option is drowning.

[cdlong]

Originally Posted by simmode1

^^^Where is this info about planned obsolescence regarding the batteries coming from?

Old, outdated, mis-information and bias against EVs.

If the battery is such a big replacement cost but it's padded by the manufacturer, the free market will come up with aftermarket replacement batteries and refurbished units.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by cdlong

Nothing blasphemous really happened today, this has been in the rumor mill for years, coming up on decades. The "s16" kept coming up, often in this thread for years, though it has seemed to mostly die off. I'll believe it when I see it. Also, who cares? The Evo is a cool car, but Mitsubishi is on life support and needs to do something to sell cars. Capitalizing on the Evo name and new trends is grasping at straws, but the other option is drowning.

Taking a name of a car with a storied motor sports history and cult enthusiast following like the Evo and slapping it on an EV CUV is indeed blasphemous.

And this thread has been going for more than a decade now largely discussing rumors (yes even the rumors regarding future Nissan RWD cars), upcoming cars, and the auto industry in general. This is the most viewed and discussed thread in OT. So t answer your question “who cares”, obviously a lot of people. If you aren’t up for those topics, what’s the point of posting? You’re an OG around here, you should know the deal.

[cdlong]

My point wasn't that it wasn't blasphemous, it's that it didn't happen today. This has been in the works for a long time and shouldn't be a surprise at this point. It very well could turn out to be awesome (unlikely, I know).

In researching to see if Mitsubishi still existed in this country, I saw something about an Eclipse-cross or something. Some kind of CUV as well. Though the later gens sucked, if anything, the Eclipse had a more foundational affect on the sport compact world than the Evo and probably any other car short of the Honda Civic. That should have caused some uproar at least.

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by simmode1

^^^Where is this info about planned obsolescence regarding the batteries coming from? I know my wife's Prius battery is likely to exceed the life of the car and that thing is 14 years old already... Is this new?

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...t-and-warranty

quick google search as well as general knowledge found out via reading on the web from Hybrid owners around the country since the introduction of the Honda Insight to the US back in 2001/2002. also keep in mind that in hotter places like Phoenix, Tucson, Vegas etc... battery life in our neck of the woods is heavily reduced (which has been confirmed over and over now for years from Prius and Leaf owners).

Planned obsolescence is something car manufacturers (nor ANY manufacturer) never discuss publicly... its general rule of business though. manufacturers have to make their products expire in a certain amount of time that seems "normal" to the unaware consumer in order for the manufacturer to receive return business. In normal combustion cars it tends to teeter around the 100k mile mark. Car dealerships have ingrained this false idea into peoples heads that a car with 80k-100k worth of miles on it is old and its going to pretty much explode if you dont buy a new one (when in reality you may just need to replace the timing belt/chain and the water pump). Car people (like many of us on these forums) know its just a myth and own our cars well into 200k miles if we love it that much. The average consumer doesnt know how to work on their own vehicle, let alone that 100k for a car is nothing thats actually problematic. Now, with EV and Hybrids, manufacturers NOW have a perfect tool for underhandedly forcing folks into purchasing a new vehicle with the "battery life" line... "Your car is approaching 100k miles and 7 years on its battery life. The battery is only rated to last 8 years and youre past your mileage warranty... We can replace that old battery for you for the cost of roughly $12,000, give or take. OR, you can upgrade to the new model for $8,000 more! the new model has this option and that option and those options that the original model never came with, plus, it comes with a 115k mile warranty!" 9 out of 10 chance that the car owner is going to purchase the shiny, new and updated version of their EV or Hybrid that is sitting on the lot rather than forking over the $10,000-$12,000 its going to run to have the battery replaced in a car that (according to the sales pitch of the dealership) is going to start having a lot more problems because its old and out of warranty. Having built in obsolescence of the battery not only drives car sales, but ensures that stealerships will still receive money made from keeping a car buyer locked into a warranty as well as becoming attached to a brand.

Its all very simple... basically what you learn in business 101.

Seems pretty silly of the car makers to do that. I know when we were shopping for our first hybrid, the biggest questions we had were how long does the battery last and how much does it cost to replace it? If we'd have gotten responses anywhere close to what you're implying, we never would have bought it. That would make them absolutely worthless for resale. Manufacturer reputation would tank, IMO.

not silly, it creates brand loyalty by keeping people locked into buying new cars when the price tag for fixing their 100k mile clunker is not an option because its out of warranty. Again, keep in mind that the average car buyer knows fuck all about cars... other than putting the key in, turning said key (well pushing a button now), shifting the PRNDL to D (yes its actually called a PRNDL now) and putting their right foot on either the gas pedal or brake pedal. Scare tactics are VERY easily achieved by dealerships, and the whole idea that a battery is no longer replaceable after 100k or 5-7 years would scare the holy crap out of a car buyer when it started getting near that mileage/year warranty running out

BTW, Toyota only charges like $3500 to replace that generation's battery. But, since there are DIY instructions available & the cars are so cheap in the first place, most ppl don't even bother.

the average car buyer is NOT going to replace their own batteries...

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by cdlong

My point wasn't that it wasn't blasphemous, it's that it didn't happen today. This has been in the works for a long time and shouldn't be a surprise at this point. It very well could turn out to be awesome (unlikely, I know).

The teaser was LITERALLY released today along with the announcement of when the car is debuting.

I wouldn’t hold my breath on it being awesome. Mitsubishi hasn’t made a decent car in over a decade (other then the actual Evo). Unless it’s on a Nissan platform (which I don’t believe it would be since they don’t have a EV based CUV platform) I wouldn’t put my money on it being awesome. It’ll be an EV and drivable at best. Lol

[exitspeed]

This or the soon to be announced V40 might be my second car next year. Love everything Volvo is doing.

[exitspeed]

Wow Autoblog is gushing about the G70. Actually read the article. Very intriguing.

https://www.autoblog.com/2017/09/21/...-drive-review/

[SimpleS14]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

not silly, it creates brand loyalty by keeping people locked into buying new cars when the price tag for fixing their 100k mile clunker is not an option because its out of warranty. Again, keep in mind that the average car buyer knows fuck all about cars... other than putting the key in, turning said key (well pushing a button now), shifting the PRNDL to D (yes its actually called a PRNDL now) and putting their right foot on either the gas pedal or brake pedal. Scare tactics are VERY easily achieved by dealerships, and the whole idea that a battery is no longer replaceable after 100k or 5-7 years would scare the holy crap out of a car buyer when it started getting near that mileage/year warranty running out

I think it's probably time for the average buyer (or general public) to be better educated on EVs. I have no problem with EVs, I just wish the supporting infrastructure was better built out.

BTW here's an example of a very high mileage Tesla Model S that's still running:
http://jalopnik.com/this-is-what-hap...-te-1798662230

300K miles and only 6% loss in power capacity

[dorkidori_s13]

bring that Tesla to Vegas for 300k miles and see that percentage loss jump to 30% after a few years in the heat lol

honestly, its not mileage that really causes wear to a car so much as its the maintenance and detail paid to the vehicle by the owner AS WELL AS over all exposure to the elements and time spent outside sitting in/being exposed to direct sunlight/snow/salt.

[olah.inc]

False hope again?

https://s.response.jp/article/2017/09/25/300180.html

[Future240]

Originally Posted by olah.inc

False hope again?

https://s.response.jp/article/2017/09/25/300180.html

Google translate

Nissan 's specialty - thetwo - door coupe "Sylvia" that once had a bleak out of the worldemerged as a concept model, the possibility that it will be exhibited at theTokyo Motor Show in October.

Silvia appeared in 1965 as the two-doornotch back coupe first. With the third generation who appeared in 1979, theposition as a date car was built. Although it is regrettable, it is Silviawhich ended production in 2002, but it is still a popular model as a base carfor racing and sports





Such Silvia is said to beresurrected and released as Silvia in 2018 after 15 years since the end ofproduction. The stage of the show is the Tokyo Motor Show. Based on informationacquired independently this time, response sibling site SPYDER 7 created aprediction CG of the next type of Silvia.





Based on the concept of sporty &specialty, it features a design that combines a straight line and a curvedsurface, it is assumed that the Nissan V motion grille is upsized and carbon isused for the skirt portion. As the concept car, the roof was a bold,full-surface glass roof, and the fender and the front air intake also made asense of power in wide. The headlight has a thin and sharp design that gainedinspiration from the "S15 model" final model





The next generation type power unit which becomes "S16 type" (provisional) is the world's first next generation mass-produced variable compression ratio engine "VC-T" which was released at the 2016 Paris Motor Show by Nissan's luxury car brand Infiniti It is powerful. It is said that it will be installed in mass-produced vehicles from 2018 and is expected to be adopted for Infiniti's crossover SUV "QX 50" new model.This new engine, which is a 2-liter inline 4-cylinder gasoline turbo, realizes high fuel efficiency as well as high power and high torque. It is a high-performance engine specialized in the environment. It can be said that it is the perfect engine for the next generation Silvia.

I think I can speak for myself and several others when I say concepts don't mean jack shit to me any more. The idx was a concept and look what happened to it. The Z is older than Moses and talk of a new Silvia? Yea wtf ever.


I won't get excited or believe it until we see a production model concept.

[dorkidori_s13]

well, at least the concept rendering is kinda neat looking someone put a lot of thought and time into it... far from holding my breath though

[exitspeed]

Not only was the IDX cool it was wildly popular and well received. There was ZERO reason for Nissan to not go through with that thing.

I’m interested in seeing the Silvia concept next month, but I’m not holding my breath it’ll actually see the light of day.

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by olah.inc

False hope again?

https://s.response.jp/article/2017/09/25/300180.html

Pipedream clickbait. Zero sources. Artist renders... smells like false hopes to me.

[exitspeed]

Welp, maybe say so long to car culture, at least how you know it now, in CA by 2040.

https://www.autoblog.com/2017/09/26/...stion-car-ban/

Pretty sure I predicted CA leading the way to killing car culture off months ago. Although my prediction had to do with autonomy vehicles the sentiment is the same. Just a different vehicle. Pun intended.

[TheRealSy90]

My favorite thing about the IDX was it was using S15 suspension/subframes/spindles. Well the concepts were anyways. Would have made the aftermarket support for the car already huge as most of that stuff would bolt right on if they had released it.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

My favorite thing about the IDX was it was using S15 suspension/subframes/spindles. Well the concepts were anyways. Would have made the aftermarket support for the car already huge as most of that stuff would bolt right on if they had released it.

As cool as that sounds, I do t think most of us would want to bolt parts from a 16 year old car onto a brand new $25k car. Hell most of us in here are embarrassed Nissan has let the 370z age like it has.

As far as them having a chassis for a concept, it was cool. But it needed to be on a new modern platform if it actually saw the light of day. RIP IDX.

[TheRealSy90]

That wouldn't mean the parts themselves are 16 years old... There was nothing wrong with the design of that suspension so I see no problem in continuing to use that design in a new cheap FR chassis. Why design something all new when that stuff already works perfectly.
Else you end up with something like the Genesis rear suspension design that has 3 fucking traction arms almost on top of eachother lol, idiotic.

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

My favorite thing about the IDX was it was using S15 suspension/subframes/spindles. Well the concepts were anyways. Would have made the aftermarket support for the car already huge as most of that stuff would bolt right on if they had released it.

both IDX concepts were built on S15 silvias... as confirmed by the designer of the car in EU (Exitspeed can back me up on this)

[simmode1]

I thought the IDX concept was only using the S15 parts to present a rolling proof of work. I didn't think for once that they'd leave all that S15 in there if it ever actually saw production.

[simmode1]

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by simmode1

I thought the IDX concept was only using the S15 parts to present a rolling proof of work. I didn't think for once that they'd leave all that S15 in there if it ever actually saw production.

ever heard it start and drive? i knew the motor as soon as soon as it kicked over... SR20

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

ever heard it start and drive? i knew the motor as soon as soon as it kicked over... SR20

Yes, they were unmistakable. But I never thought the s15 running gear would remain for production. Oh well. It's dead in either event.

[cdlong]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

As cool as that sounds, I do t think most of us would want to bolt parts from a 16 year old car onto a brand new $25k car. Hell most of us in here are embarrassed Nissan has let the 370z age like it has.

As far as them having a chassis for a concept, it was cool. But it needed to be on a new modern platform if it actually saw the light of day. RIP IDX.

Though the s15 suspension is essentially the same as the s13 and considering the design for that probably started around 1987, the design is actually 30 years old. They would certainly use something more modern.

But again, it's dead so the point is moot.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

As far as them having a chassis for a concept, it was cool. But it needed to be on a new modern platform if it actually saw the light of day. RIP IDX.

Hell I'd even take the FM platform. A turbo 4 with around 300hp and 6speed manual.


I would not want anything with the S chassis still attached to it.

[TheRealSy90]

Originally Posted by cdlong

Though the s15 suspension is essentially the same as the s13 and considering the design for that probably started around 1987, the design is actually 30 years old. They would certainly use something more modern.

But again, it's dead so the point is moot.

What I was trying to say is there is nothing wrong with that suspension design. Why design something new when that design works perfectly? Like I said before some newer suspension designs on cars are downright garbage and over complicated. You want it cheap? Keep it simple on a proven suspension package that we all know works.

Originally Posted by Future240

A turbo 4 with around 300hp and 6speed manual.

So an S15...

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

So an S15...

I love the S15, but there are so many other cars I'd consider first. Hell, it ain't even the only turbo I4 with 6spd trans anymore.