ITB's for my ka24de finished. *pics

[SilviaDriver]

Originally Posted by Sideways_In_SD

All you haters are fuggin weak sauce!!!

This is a pro-to-type,

That's why it looks like shit, and isn't "optimized" for "flow characteristics" and "volumetric efficency"

If you're not impressed, just say "neat" and move on, cause this is just the beginning stages.

And not everyone is sponsored by Parents Inc. so it keeps our projects low-cost, and low-tech. WOO HOO broke-as-fuck tuning!!

and how are u adding/helping the thread??? if you have nothing to say y dont you stfu? there has been approx 2 pages of discussion until you jumped in and made yourself look stupid.

[S14DB]

This rocks: http://www.tweakit.net/shop/product_...roducts_id=113

[RBS14]

Actually, he's been helping me with it all along, giving me imput, ideas and such. It would appear that you are the one not helping... so why don't U STFU! sounds good to me.

The theory anyways is to make the plenum as big as the engine bay will allow so that it will practically be like open atmosphere.

Actually, that is not the idea at all. You don't know much about fluid dynamics do you? An incorrectly sized plenum will fuck up your intake air flow characteristics enough that you can lose a lot of power. There are a TON of things that need to be considered when making a plenum. if you are boosting, it will cover up some mistakes, but not many. On n/a, it's got to be perfect to make any reasonable power.

[SilviaDriver]

Originally Posted by RBS14

Actually, he's been helping me with it all along, giving me imput, ideas and such. It would appear that you are the one not helping... so why don't U STFU! sounds good to me.
.

you want help? heres a helping advice, the things gonna choke but you can figure that out for urself

and who ever said we were hating???? strange how poeple comprehend things

[RBS14]

riiiiiiight. since you seem to know this as a fact, can you please post up a dyno chart and pics of these TB's on a ka? that'd be great, thanks.

If you can't complete the request above......




























STFU

Nobody (except you and your honduh brother) share your opinions. So why don't you do us all a favor and leave.

On a side note: you've got to be an idiot to think that 4 individual TB's with the same size throttle plate diameter as the runners is going to "choke". hahahah

[atom]

Originally Posted by RBS14

Actually, that is not the idea at all. You don't know much about fluid dynamics do you? An incorrectly sized plenum will fuck up your intake air flow characteristics enough that you can lose a lot of power. There are a TON of things that need to be considered when making a plenum. if you are boosting, it will cover up some mistakes, but not many. On n/a, it's got to be perfect to make any reasonable power.

Did you even read what I wrote? Do you even know the point of an air box on an ITB setup? It's only purpose is to provide an enclosed area to draw air from (and in the case of a MAF to meter air) and that's it.

In a regular maifold you need to tune for the intake pulses etc. to provide optimal flow, in an ITB'd car you don't because it's the ITB's that you want controlling flow. If you are going to use an airbox you actually want as little interference from the airbox as possible, including pressure pulses. And the larger the air box the weaker the pressure pulses will be, which is what you want.

[RBS14]

I thought you were talking about regular single tb on huge intake mani. My bad. MAF sensors are quite inefficient to start with, so making a plenum just to use one seems stupid. Might as well run open tb's with a map sensor. It's just extra weight that you don't need. If you are trying to achieve open atmosphere conditions, why not just run open?

[atom]

Well besides running a MAF, you can duct it to provide cold air. Cold air is still important.

[tastyratz]

now if i remember correctly there needs to be some sort of computer controlled valving for letting intake air in besides just adjusting the amount the butterflies are open. (you know, how the car revs up and down on its own compensating for engine/weather/etc conditions) i cant think of the name of it but...

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by tastyratz

now if i remember correctly there needs to be some sort of computer controlled valving for letting intake air in besides just adjusting the amount the butterflies are open. (you know, how the car revs up and down on its own compensating for engine/weather/etc conditions) i cant think of the name of it but...

Idle Air Control valve?

[nightwalker]

idle air control should not be a problem with a map car. The slight opening of the throttle bodies should compensate for that. But I don't think the IACV has been removed?

I like the pioneering though. All you haters go jerk off somewhere. Hate, or tell him "We told you so" when he's done with it and it doesn't work.

I have friends with ITB setups on different cars, they all sound badass, and make good power. I'm patiently waiting to see what comes out of RBS14's project.

[RBS14]

yes, IACV is gone too. EVERYTHING on stock intake manifold is gone. As well as every part of the stock intake system, save the 6" of manifold.

The MegaSquirt uses a map sensor, which measures barametric (sp?) pressure. MS also uses air temp sensor. Between the two, it can idle the car wonderfully. The stock ECU basically has a mind of its own. MS does exactly as you tell it to, so no fluctuating idle, no self adjusting a/f ratio, and no self adjusting timing etc. MS2 is coming out soon, and it has a setup where you can set a target a/f and it will hold to it. Pretty sweet. And with MS you can make another more conservative fuel/ignition map that MS defaults to if it detects knock on your regular fuel/ignition map. [/off topic]

[1sikgti]

I noticed your not to far from me an was curious if you could tell me more if this works on an obd2 s14 or not? An if so,would you be willing to build me a setup an install,provided I brnig you the parts in the near future?

[RBS14]

Yes, this will work on any S14. and MegaSquirt will work on anything from a lawnmower to a Ferrari F40. I've still got a lot of work to do on this setup, but once I'm done and it's running well, we'll talk.

UPDATE: I just finished some (2) "L" brackets that bolt to the TB's and to the mani. They make it even more solid than before. There is no way these TB's are gonna flex and/or come out of the couplers.

[1sikgti]

Ok,sweet I like the sound of that.Keep me posted cause after my next paint job in a month I wanna do this,you seem to know how to build it an do the ms well,plus I Am only 2 hours from you.

[RBS14]

Originally Posted by 1sikgti

you seem to know how to build it an do the ms

hahah I might come off that way but I've got a LOT of stuff I still to learn about it.

[stock4door]

That is a tight setup, hope to see you make it function soon.

To all the downlookers: I have seen more than one KA24DE with 4 throttle setups like this on them before. Running anywhere from 40mm up to 55mm on both ka24e and ka24de. Most of these setups were running carbs also, mikunis or webers, all of them in Datsun 510's. Pretty much all of them make more horsepower than any KA24DE I have ever seen running oem style EFI, even built ones with all the bolts ons. A friend just dynoed a bone stock 92 KA24de with stock exhaust manifold on it. Running 45mm weber carbs with no chokes in them. Made 157 to the rear wheels and pulled all the way up over 6000rpm. Anything over 45-48mm is gonna kill the driveability of that engine hardcore. Perfectly useless for anything you are gonna be likely to do in a 240sx. I would agree that anything smaller than what you are gonna be using would be a bad idea. But 43-48mm is gonna work perfectly fine. Proven time and time again, just gotta look outside of the 240sx world sometimes. And forgot looking at the honda stuff, totally pointless, totally different design.

A very famous Nissan engine builder in Sacramento California called B.C. Gerolamy has gotten 200+ horse to the flywheel before using just 44mm mikuni carbs, pace setter header, and some port work.

And these are all carb setups. Imagine what could be done with some quality time on a dyno with an EFI system.

As for the couplings holding the itb's on... People do that all the time to hold motorcycle carbs or itb's onto car engines. Setups are actually sold to make connections like this work. Works perfectly fine. They don't weigh very much at all, and don't do much other than operate some throttles. I have seen pics of o.g. tomei ITB motors using silicone couplers on production pieces that they actually sold and are still being circulated on yahoo of Japan all the time. If the JDM tomei peeps did it, why can't we do it in the U.S.?

Danny

[tastyratz]

i see no issue with running the silicone couplers if it can be held solidly with an L bracket or something else that keeps them from wiggling when you stomp the throttle and pull on the linkage. the thing about the idle however is you may get away with it in california but you need some form of idle control like that. you need to have control to step up your idle when you turn the a/c on, turn the wheel and load the system with your power steering or just have a heavy electrical load. you need to be able to control the cold start idle enrichment/warm ups and things of the sort, thats my only real issue with some setup like this. if it was just a track only car thats one thing but these are all things to consider on a street car...

[RBS14]

Danny, Very interesting stuff. Thanks a ton.

Tastyratz: I'm gonna have P.S. But no a/c or heavy electrical loads. It doesn't get all that cold here. And when it does, MS will compensate for it, via the air temp sensor.

[atom]

Originally Posted by tastyratz

i see no issue with running the silicone couplers if it can be held solidly with an L bracket or something else that keeps them from wiggling when you stomp the throttle and pull on the linkage. the thing about the idle however is you may get away with it in california but you need some form of idle control like that. you need to have control to step up your idle when you turn the a/c on, turn the wheel and load the system with your power steering or just have a heavy electrical load. you need to be able to control the cold start idle enrichment/warm ups and things of the sort, thats my only real issue with some setup like this. if it was just a track only car thats one thing but these are all things to consider on a street car...

You can try using a small piece of sheetmetal to make a blockoff plate for the stock IACV unit and then T it off into the ITB's. Same concept as a remote oil filter system. If you look at RBS14's pics you can see he JB'd the injector holes on the ITB's. Instead of plugging those up you could try using those as ports for the IACV maybe.

Sorry, I suck at explaining shit...........

[RBS14]

I'm not using aicv. simple as that.

[TokyoNights]

http://www.homemadeturbo.com/tech_pr...itb/index.html

[TokyoNights]

Btw rbs14 think the spacing between the busa itbs is the same as the gixxer? I can get a set for cheap and I might try this with the busa ones since they might flow more.

[TokyoNights]

nvm it should be close enough.

[RBS14]

I have no idea on hyabusa TB spacing. Only get ones that are spaced farther apart than gsxr ones. Then you can run a shorter mani.

[TokyoNights]

I got a quote back on the busa ITBs= 1.65 inch, in mm I think they are 40 or 41. That cant be right

[RBS14]

yea, 1.65 is 41.91mm. That sounds smaller than what I've heard. But honestly, set silviadriver's factually unfounded comments aside. Think about it. GSXR tb's are 1mm smaller than the inside ID of stock runners. That is damn near perfect. with bigger TB's you'd need to have a custom mani made to make use of the bigger throttle plate diameter, and have your head ported to match the bigger runners. Unless you are doing that, it doesn't make sense to use bigger tb's. The GSXR tb's have a 50mm inlet that funnels down to a 43mm throttle plate. Unless you are doing all of the above modifications, the ammount of air is either restricted at the throttle plate, or after it when the air has to enter a runner with a smaller diameter than the throttle plate. I personally would rather have all of the air going past the throttle plate getting used, instead of more air than the runner can flow getting by the throttle plate and then creating turbulence when the air has to funnel down to a smaller diameter runner. Hope all that makes sense. And don't forget, GSXR tb's have been used successfully on a couple different ka's and everyone who has done them has reported a HUGE gain in topend, and a noticeable gain in the lower powerband.

That's my 2 cents.

[SimpleS14]

That car is going to be LOUD. Are you planning to change anything else? (i.e. cams)

[RBS14]

Yea, especially with my header, high flow 3" cat, and custom 3" catback with no resonator. It's already loud on the exhaust end, now the intake end will be just as loud. Can't wait.

I've got 91 cams in there for now. I'm going to be running a much more agressive pair of cams in the future, just not sure what. JWT, PDM, or a custom pair of cams.

[SR240DET]

good luck RBS14..... iv got the same setup as you... i know exactly what your talking about... did you get my PM?