we have a go on the RB swap

[Tenchuu]

my cooling system is turning into a 1500 ordeal.

OK realsistic break down
fans 60
water pump 125
radiator hoses 150
radiator 310
coolant flush 95
nismo thermo 55
reg thermo 20
Bad sender 20
good sender 17
new FAL fans 230
fluid 10


total so far: $1092

(not to mention that the koy and the fans are the second set i have bought so on new rad#2 and fans#3)
and i am going to switch over to watter wetter, plus that doesn't inculde shop fees involved with messing around with the damn thing or the time i have spent on it. then the only thin i will have left to change out is the radiator. (or remove the FMIC maby that is blocking too mutch air)

[Neejay]

Damn man...more than what I paid for my car :-\

[NemeGuero]

Where'd you get a nismo thermo for $55?

[Tenchuu]

Originally Posted by NemeGuero

Where'd you get a nismo thermo for $55?

got a hook up from a local shop, but look around on the internet.

http://performancenissanparts.com/ca...8b38b2af4874ff

http://www.superiornissanmotorsports...fe7888bb7fedb3

http://www.thenissanpartsstore.com/P...p?prodCatId=15

[Tenchuu]

well good news, since i moved the fans off the AC condenser and put them onto the radiator, i got it lazered today and it was @178deg at idle after driveing it around for 30 min or so stop and go in the heat of the day. i think that the AC condenser was blocking too mutch air. not i will put the cooling panel back on and see it that makes any differance.

[spookykid]

I've been following this thread for a while - just wanted to say thanks for writing all this up for us. The RB route is where i'm going to be headed this summer, and it's always nice to see it done a few times before you attempt it, u know?

Anywho, good luck w/everything else, and thanks again!

[Neejay]

Originally Posted by Tenchuu

well good news, since i moved the fans off the AC condenser and put them onto the radiator, i got it lazered today and it was @178deg at idle after driveing it around for 30 min or so stop and go in the heat of the day. i think that the AC condenser was blocking too mutch air. not i will put the cooling panel back on and see it that makes any differance.

Just curious, why did you take the cooling panel off? Just because you thought it would be cool enough?

And also, why didn't you put the fans on the radiator from the beginning?

[Tenchuu]

Originally Posted by Neejay

Just curious, why did you take the cooling panel off? Just because you thought it would be cool enough?

And also, why didn't you put the fans on the radiator from the beginning?

i took the cooling panel off becaue the fans have to suck air from somewhere, and since the intercooler is so big it is blocking alot of air.... but maily cause i was running out of things to change up to get it cooler. and i diddn't mount it on the radiator to begin with because i like, and plan on keeping my AC if at all possible. when i get the FALs in i will see if i can put them on top of the condenser and hook that back up but there is only one way to find out if it will work. witch is wait for someone on zilvia to find out the hard way and learn from their mistakes if they write it up




also just a thought on driving the car, the alighnment was WAY off, so i got that fixed and it handles just like it did before the swap, witch is to say great. only thing is that the RB seems to detest low speeds, i drive it NA most of the time and only am getting about 200miles to the tank (12-14MPG) I have heard that it should get alot better than that, but i will update this as it progeresses and gets the bugs worked out of it. i have went through 2 tanks so far, but it is just now comeing out of the project stage (bought air filter today) ... oh and that low speeds thing, at under about 8or so MPH in 1st, and at the low ends of every gear it is a bit jerky, kind of like the clutch is engageing and disengaugeing but i don't think that is the case since as soon as i give it gas it takes off with the quickness. once i get above parkinglot cruising speeds it wants to go like it's cool. after riding in a friends SR a while back, the feeling of waiting and then the boost hits, isn't there, it is go go go go go..(sound of turbo spooling up like a jet engine).boost and then you're really kicked back in the seat.

I think that the turbo noise is louder than the BOV, and that is loud too. but all in all this is a veary civil engine when crusising around town. i pretty mutch stay off the boost and drive jsut as fast as my KA around town, but when I need the power i's always hungrily waiting on tap to be let loose.

i really would like to see this engien at my goal of 300-350WHP, cause it is quick now.

and that's a nite.

[drift freaq]

Sounds like you need to work on the tuning ken, it should not be jerky at low speeds. My car is not, I let the clutch out at low rpm's and it just rolls. Ask Henry how his is running, Seeing as your both Kouki s14's running roughly a identical setup.

[kouki_s14]

mine doesnt jerk at low speeds except for the usual 2mph roll with clutch fully engaged and me stepping on the gas. without throttle it rolls fine even though my clutch isnt too forgiving, i dont get the jerkiness you're talking about. i also get at least 17-18 mpg even with a dirt filled intake filter.

[Neejay]

Ah, ok. Didn't understand how much space you had/the front mount blocking air.

[Tenchuu]

I'll have to look into getting it dynod when i get back home, it wil beon a trailer going up to Oregon, so I'm not too worried about it for now. or i suppose there are somre dyno places about a block away i could hook up the SAFC and go see what i can get out of it.

[Tenchuu]

FINALLY!!!!!!


so i put in the FAL 240 fans (be sure to read the instructions, you have to reverse the wires but not the blades) and changed out the coolant (to mutch andtfreeze was like 60/50 ritch mix) now it is about 75% water with a bottle of Royal purple purple ice (water wetter stuff) in there and my temp went from 208deg to 143deg now i am finally seeing the benifit of the extra cooling that i have been doing. ends up you were right dave, those fans were licking ballz. alth after looking at how everything fits in there, there is no wat (without timming the core support) to fit FAL 240 fans in front of the AC condenser. so i left it off for now. I am seriously considering just saying hell with the AC but will think about it for a while first. now that the engine is back up to reliable status (altho air filter comeing in next week) I am finally just going to get to drive and enjoy it for a bit. next up is boost gauge and oil pressure gauge. but those are comeing after i move most likeley.

[Tenchuu]

After trying to install a SAFC, and findeing out that some wires are different (than what APEX'I lists a RB25DET should have), I decided that running stock was better than a seized motor and canked that SAFC. i will return to the modding down the road whenever i get a PFC to drop in it.... so don't expect to hear on that for a while. but int he mean time id dumped WAY too mutch fuel so i took out the spark plugs. Here they are after driveing it for two weeks:

what you can't see in the pic is that they kinda have pink spots on the white part, it hink that i overheated the shit out of them, then dumped on an ass load of fuel. it does run a little smoother now. also these are NKG 6953 coppers re-gapped to .8mm (as per the spec i found)


and these are for everyone who is thinking why diddn't i just hook the fans up as pullers:

[kouki_s14]

clamp seems to be a bit crooked
might want to straighten it out a bit cause it seems like it might pop off after awhile

[eh?]

Are you still running the stock FPR?

[Tenchuu]

those clamps are the shittiest ever. 1/2 of them diddn't even go on straight the first time, and that one has to be removes every time i get to the radiator, i need to source some decent clamps to replace outall of them

eh? yes i am running the stock FPR, saw no real reason to upgrade it as i am running the stock injectors, i saw no real reason to up that and deal with tuneing it all out with an aftermarket one. right now the engine is bare bones stock with a FMIC, low temp thermostat, and koyo radiator, and walbro fuel pump. as i mentioned before i was going to hook up the SAFC, but i would highly suggest not doing it (i have installed 3 of them before this and something aobut the wireing if off between apexi, the RB, and my car so you are on your own on damageing the vechile if you decide to) that plan is to get it running great as stock with extra cooling capibilities and then if time, desire and funding permits adjust as i see fit. right nowi can confidently say that it will be 6+ monthsx until i re vist the modding possibilities on this setup due to me moveing states, takeing a vacation, and switching jobs.

[BlackS14]

Props on an excellent thread man. I have no plans to go RB, but I am a huge fan of reading threads such as these with great detail and lots of pics....awesome. Glad to see it finished and running well...now....VIDS!!!!

-Bill

[eh?]

Originally Posted by Tenchuu

eh? yes i am running the stock FPR , saw no real reason to upgrade it as i am running the stock injectors, i saw no real reason to up that and deal with tuneing it all out with an aftermarket one. right now the engine is bare bones stock with a FMIC, low temp thermostat, and koyo radiator, and walbro fuel pump .

You don't upgrade the FPR because of new injectors, you upgrade it because of the higher flowing fuel pump, which you have. It's known (well to some) that the stock RB 20 and 25 FPR cannot handle the increased flow from a upgraded pump. The result is increased fuel pressure which in turn creates a rich condition...

[Tenchuu]

Originally Posted by eh?

You don't upgrade the FPR because of new injectors, you upgrade it because of the higher flowing fuel pump, which you have. It's known (well to some) that the stock RB 20 and 25 FPR cannot handle the increased flow from a upgraded pump. The result is increased fuel pressure which in turn creates a rich condition...

You do realize that the RB motors CANNOT handle the flow from a stock pump. it runs lean as shit and will burn it out in a matter of weeks on a stock pump, and in order to flow the same as a factory skyline pump you HAVE to replace out to a high flow pump.

But on that same note it will run ritch, but not like a SR or KA with the high flow pump.

RB stock = 6 x 370cc 2220cc total <-- upgraded fuel pump is for these
SR stock = 4 x 370cc 1850cc total
KA stock = 4 x 260cc 1040cc total <-- stock fuel pump is for these

so as you can see the RB needs over 2x more flow that the KA pumps is made to draw out. for a better tune i would say yes, get the PFC, wideband it on a dyno and put in a guage to monitor fuel pressure. but my realistic side says i am running it stock, it is a little ritch but all it is doing is going to cost me a bit more in gas for the time being.

but with that said i am resaerching to get one just to help smoothe out the idle a little bit.

[S14DB]

It's not the 'flow' from the walbro that the FPR can't handle. It's the 50psi output pressure. The Flow data you listed is 100% duty cycle not idle. Idle is were the fpr is bypassing a lot of fuel. The FPR is designed for 43psi but dealing with 50psi inlet pressure.

All the engines you listed use the same FPR. So, they are all affected by higher PSI regardless of flow.

[eh?]

I'm not sure which part of my post you did not understand. You definitely need to upgrade the pump. IT's obvious you need to upgrade the pump- it's a requirement of the swap.
My point is the walbro FLOWS or outputs more PRESSURE than the stock RB25pump. Therefore you need a way to lower the pressure back to spec.
Understand?
If your still a little bit confused read this thread:
http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=35902

Originally Posted by Tenchuu

You do realize that the RB motors CANNOT handle the flow from a stock pump. it runs lean as shit and will burn it out in a matter of weeks on a stock pump, and in order to flow the same as a factory skyline pump you HAVE to replace out to a high flow pump.

But on that same note it will run ritch, but not like a SR or KA with the high flow pump.

RB stock = 6 x 370cc 2220cc total <-- upgraded fuel pump is for these
SR stock = 4 x 370cc 1850cc total
KA stock = 4 x 260cc 1040cc total <-- stock fuel pump is for these

so as you can see the RB needs over 2x more flow that the KA pumps is made to draw out. for a better tune i would say yes, get the PFC, wideband it on a dyno and put in a guage to monitor fuel pressure. but my realistic side says i am running it stock, it is a little ritch but all it is doing is going to cost me a bit more in gas for the time being.

but with that said i am resaerching to get one just to help smoothe out the idle a little bit.

[Tenchuu]

You sir, are correct.

this origionally was on my turn key list of parts to replace before i got started, but got the boot due to other parts takeing it's place. I was put off until i got a air filter (witch i got tonight I hate San Diego) and cured the stumbeling at idle (witch it did) so basically was beign lazy and jsut avoiding driveing rather than work on it over the easter holiday. i needed a break.

As far as FRP install goes i have read that the procedure is set to 43psi with the vac line off, and then plug it in and go. as far as i can find out, should be easy,if i can find something to check the pressure with, if not it is set to 37 factory witch is close than the walbro but not goos enuff for doing it right the first time.

any tips that you guys can give me, EH? or S14, to make this process go any easier??

for anyone reading this step are:
1. release pressure in gas tank
2. pull fuel pump fuse
3. idle car until it dies, DO NOT REV
4. pull and change regulator
5. put a gauge in the SEND line and connect back up
6. replace fuel pump fuse
7. measure car at fuel pressure with gauge at idle with vac line desconnected, adjust to 43psi
8. check for leaks
9. test drive
10. check again and enjoy!

feel free to inform me if that misses anything. as i have said before, i am doing most of this stuff of reasearch alone, and getting the first hand experiance myself.

I have heard that the screws are hard to get off, but you have to make sure that you don't round them or else you are fuxored. so i know tha tmutch at least.

[eh?]

Originally Posted by Tenchuu

any tips that you guys can give me, EH? or S14, to make this process go any easier??

for anyone reading this step are:
1. release pressure in gas tank
2. pull fuel pump fuse
3. idle car until it dies, DO NOT REV
4. pull and change regulator
5. put a gauge in the SEND line and connect back up
6. replace fuel pump fuse
7. measure car at fuel pressure with gauge at idle with vac line desconnected, adjust to 43psi
8. check for leaks
9. test drive
10. check again and enjoy!

feel free to inform me if that misses anything. as i have said before, i am doing most of this stuff of reasearch alone, and getting the first hand experiance myself.

I have heard that the screws are hard to get off, but you have to make sure that you don't round them or else you are fuxored. so i know tha tmutch at least.

Your procedure is correct.
As far as the screws, I don't remember if there's enough space on the stock IM, but cracking the screws loose with a small vice grip helps a lot.

[Tenchuu]

well i have been fighting problems for a while, but needless to say i have switched out 4 fuel pumps in 4 weeks so i deserve some sort of frequent flyer miles or some shit. at least a secred decoder ring if nothing else. total count:
2 broke walbro HP pumps
2 fine S14 pumps, one accidently chucked
1 nince new walbro HP pump currently installed.

and i will see what happens from here.

for referance faulty fuel pumps cause an ass load of srtange problems to include:
no torque
turbo spools but no acceleration
acceleration and no rurbo sppooling
decreased blow off
sputtering/stalling
air in fuel lines
almmost like a vaccume leak sort or problems, i know it's a bitch to get to the fueal pump, but it makes a good place to start troubleshooting the fuel system.

[kouki_s14]

wow you have some bad luck with those pumps, but i didnt think the fuel pumps was hard to get to. an easy mod if you ask me. try going with a nismo or some other brand if this walbro goes out again. nothing is as cheap or quiet as the walbro, but im sure the quality is worth the price.

[NemeGuero]

Originally Posted by Tenchuu

well i have been fighting problems for a while, but needless to say i have switched out 4 fuel pumps in 4 weeks so i deserve some sort of frequent flyer miles or some shit. at least a secred decoder ring if nothing else. total count:
2 broke walbro HP pumps
2 fine S14 pumps, one accidently chucked
1 nince new walbro HP pump currently installed.

and i will see what happens from here.

for referance faulty fuel pumps cause an ass load of srtange problems to include:
no torque
turbo spools but no acceleration
acceleration and no rurbo sppooling
decreased blow off
sputtering/stalling
air in fuel lines
almmost like a vaccume leak sort or problems, i know it's a bitch to get to the fueal pump, but it makes a good place to start troubleshooting the fuel system.

Thanks for posting this, Tenchuu.
I think my pump needs to be replaced.

[R33GTS-T]

when my rb25 swap was done the car ran great...no problems what so ever and the SAFCII install wasn't a problem either

a week later and the nismo adjustable fpr came in and threw that on and retuned the safcII slightly and the car runs even stronger. i knew i needed to upgrade the fpr but i didn't think it would have made that much of a difference.

btw, i'm running the greddy intake manifold....makes it a hell of a lot easier to work on the engine

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by R33GTS-T

btw, i'm running the greddy intake manifold....makes it a hell of a lot easier to work on the engine

And run FMIC pipes...

[R33GTS-T]

Originally Posted by S14DB

And run FMIC pipes...

this much is true lol

with the trust ps13 silvia fmic kit all we had to do was slightly modify the hot and cold pipe (at the turbo and at the throttle body) and it fit like a glove

btw, if you get the greddy intake manifold DO NOT run the 90mm throttle body unless you plan on making well over 600whp with the car. the 90mm throttle body will only kill throttle response if you aren't making a ton of power....i got the throttle body adapter piece with my manifold and bolted the stock rb25det tb right up