Marijuana Legalization Debate *NO PICTURES*

[stinky_180]

Originally Posted by BostonDriftah

Its a plant it is safe. TRUST ME I KNOW>

It's Just a Plant - a children’s book about marijuana

lol

i'de still like to see your sources

Annual Causes of Death in the United States
Tobacco 435,000
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Microbial Agents 75,000
Toxic Agents 55,000
Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,347
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000
Suicide 30,622
Incidents Involving Firearms 29,000
Homicide 20,308
Sexual Behaviors 20,000
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,000
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600
Marijuana 0

[greddy2die]

Ok, here is the documentary I was looking for earlier that I wanted to show you guys.

Its called:

THE UNION: The business behind getting high.

The Union

Check it out and let me know. Positive or Negative details

[stinky_180]

saw it, has so much good information in it. positive and negative. no where does it say a single person has died from cannabis, smoking or edibles; not a single case.

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by stinky_180

saw it, has so much good information in it. positive and negative. no where does it say a single person has died from cannabis, smoking or edibles; not a single case.

People dont die from smoking cigarretes, they die from the effects it causes. Just like alcohol, there are far more alcohol related ACCIDENTS then people who die from consuming too much alcohol. Sure it happens but not nearly as much as the accidents. And marijuana would fall into this catagory from what I can see from the in the chart VV

"All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,000"

Otherwise it would be like separating the deaths from Beer vs. Liquour. Just a waste of time and energy. Marijuana is an illicit drug.


And to back up earlier talking about the harmful ingredients in both tobacco and marijuana... A study conducted by Berkeley on carcinogenic substances.

1) Marijuana contains tar when smoked just like cigarettes. The only difference is the amount, if a person were to smoke just the bud of the marijuana they would consume roughly 33% of the amount of tar.

(This means marijuana STILL contains TAR just like tobacco)

2) Marijuana smokers do not smoke anywhere near as much as tobacco smokers, due to the psychoactive effects of cannabis. However over time the need or dependancy on the drug increases and larger quantities are consumed similiar to that of tobacco products.

I don't feel like copying and pasting everything but they also found some benefits that I believe were stated earlier...

12) Cannabis, unlike tobacco, does not cause any narrowing of the small air passageways in the lungs. In fact my actually help clear the lungs.

22) Only one case of lung cancer has ever been successfully linked to marijuana use.

[BostonDriftah]

bringing back to 1990's

YouTube - Cypress Hill - I Wanna Get High

Pick it .
pack it .
fire it up .

come along.



Nixon, Marijuana, and the Shafer Commission

^ info on this War on plant. think if someone made roses illegal. shit is stupid.

if you feel the need to over dose on any drug. FEEL FREE its your life bro's/ Enjoy it any way YOU SEE FIT. dont let one man guide your journey/ life.

This is a interest time we live in. No one has respect for each others LIBERTIES! if no one is harmed... then no crime has taking place.

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by BostonDriftah

This is a interest time we live in. No one has respect for each others LIBERTIES! if no one is harmed... then no crime has taking place.

R U SRS? You wanna talk about Liberties and then say if nobody is harmed theres no crime?

[BostonDriftah]

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

R U SRS? You wanna talk about Liberties and then say if nobody is harmed theres no crime?

Yes that is correct.

do you see anything wrong with that?

What Liberty does me smoking a plant take from you?
I dont see any that come to mind.

but If I smoke a plant YOU think I should be sent to jail? or fined, and or punished.

Open your mind.
Our world is not to be controlled by one man to another simply.
thats our downfall... trying to control shit.

Let it be. Nature will take its course.
Naturally.

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by BostonDriftah

Yes that is correct.

do you see anything wrong with that?

What Liberty does me smoking a plant take from you?
I dont see any that come to mind.

but If I smoke a plant YOU think I should be sent to jail? or fined, and or punished.

Open your mind.
Our world is not to be controlled by one man to another simply.
thats our downfall... trying to control shit.

Let it be. Nature will take its course.
Naturally.

I see alot wrong with "that". You can't be selective when it comes to these things, laws are in place to protect people and OUR liberties. Most of which you seem to take for granted. Am I saying that Marijuana being criminalized is great? No! Do I care if it gets legalized? No! But saying "no harm no foul" is just plain retarded. If you wanna smoke in your house have at enjoy yourself. The second you step outside your door being "high" and get behind the wheel of a motor vehicle thats another story. By the way "one man" does not control anything. Lets not turn this into a conspiracy thread.

[S14_Kouki]

That doc The Union was great just plain great I just got done watching it and I was amazed on how much info there was. I can honestly say I learned alot of stuff I did not know. Thank u for sharing that with us. I wish we could some how publicly broadcast that to ever tv in the united states.

Sleepy240

If u still think marijuana causes cancer watch The Union

Now can you share the link were cancer was linked to marijuana use.

[greddy2die]

Originally Posted by S14_Kouki

That doc The Union was great just plain great I just got done watching it and I was amazed on how much info there was. I can honestly say I learned alot of stuff I did not know. Thank u for sharing that with us. I wish we could some how publicly broadcast that to ever tv in the united states.

Sleepy240

If u still think marijuana causes cancer watch The Union

Now can you share the link were cancer was linked to marijuana use.

Yeah its a pretty good documentary with a great amount of information.

And regarding Sleepy240's comments, im sure he is fully aware that Marijuana does not directly cause cancer. Its the long term effect of physically smoking that causes cancer.

Your buring a material thats turning into ash/smoke/tar. Eventually that all adds up and can possibly have bad side effects.

[S14_Kouki]

Yes that is right ^ but like the doc said if it really did have a bad affect on ppl the gov would be advertising that and flaunting around like its the best thing ever. But after everything is said and done there is no proof.

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by S14_Kouki

Yes that is right ^ but like the doc said if it really did have a bad affect on ppl the gov would be advertising that and flaunting around like its the best thing ever. But after everything is said and done there is no proof.

Trust me I fully understand what your trying to say. But if you think smoking a joint doesn't have any of the negative effects that smoking a cigarrete does you are sadly mistaken. The doses are smaller, just because you smoke pot does not mean your going to develope cancer. Thats not what I am trying to say. I have seen "The Union" documentry, and "Super High Me" (if you don't consider that film to be total garbage). There are TONS of misconceptions about marijuana, and sadly most of them come from the people who actually use the substance.

[Future240]

All the talk about smoke, what if you vaporie it? What are the harmful/beneficial effects then? Just a curiosity.

I always thought marijuana should be legal, but should be regulated something like alcohol is. Can't smoke and drive, no smoking it in public, on the job etc.

Companies could sell MJ cigs that range from beer power to everclear power. A new word is created to have a politically correct way to say high and that becomes a new charge DWH.

People would go crazy fora few years but once the paradigm shifted it would be ok.

[greddy2die]

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

Trust me I fully understand what your trying to say. But if you think smoking a joint doesn't have any of the negative effects that smoking a cigarrete does you are sadly mistaken. The doses are smaller, just because you smoke pot does not mean your going to develope cancer. Thats not what I am trying to say. I have seen "The Union" documentry, and "Super High Me" (if you don't consider that film to be total garbage). There are TONS of misconceptions about marijuana, and sadly most of them come from the people who actually use the substance.

Yeah, I have Super High Me, and while I chuckled a couple times, its not a movie you would want to watch to get good facts regarding marijuana. He probably just did it to smoke pot for a month straight for money and be in a movie.

[S14_Kouki]

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

Trust me I fully understand what your trying to say. But if you think smoking a joint doesn't have any of the negative effects that smoking a cigarrete does you are sadly mistaken. The doses are smaller, just because you smoke pot does not mean your going to develope cancer. Thats not what I am trying to say. I have seen "The Union" documentry, and "Super High Me" (if you don't consider that film to be total garbage). There are TONS of misconceptions about marijuana, and sadly most of them come from the people who actually use the substance.

Yes im sure there are "so called" misconceptions about marijuana but I have yet to see proof..... The film The Union and other fact show marijuana can cause better and faster brain cell regrowth. There are no facts that marijuana smoke causes cancers. Yes I understand the smoke from marijuana might and I emphasize the word might be harmful unlike cigg smoke. At the end of this all ciggs kill many many more ppl proven unlike marijuana smoke. And the movie Super High Me is about what marijuana smoke does over a period of time the movie proves the point it does not have any effect on the body. Well...... except he can guess numbers easier lol.

Now as future240 brought up what if you smoke with a vaporizer what effects does that have??? Because it is smokeless smoke

[Wake]

I still dont understand why it should be illegal and alchohol and cigs arent.

and I really dont see any logical reasoning being presented here.

No matter how you cut it alcohol and cigs cause waaaaaaaaay more deaths, say "illicit drugs" all you want but the fact is marijuana has never directly caused a death.
Bad judgment maybe which resulted in a accident but I feel that is still grossly overshadowed by the amount of alchy related deaths. but we are still allowed to go out and get plastered and hop behind the wheel which puts everyone on the road at risk. Im not saying that weed doesnt cause people to drive stupidly but I know way more people that are mor cautious while driving high because they get paranoid. I personally love driving high and have never had an accident or even really a close call while doing so. I however NEVER drink and drive because judgment is far more impaired and Im am just plain scared because of how far off center I feel.

now you can compare the factors such as body weight, eating habits for the day, amount drank/smoked in what amount of time, personal tolerance to said substances, and the bottom line is that weed doesnt affect ANYONE as strongly as alcohol. If you sit down and smoke a joint and sit down and take a shot of 80 proof, i guarantee that you will be more fucked up from the alcohol.
Say what you want but there is no legit reason that alchy should be legal and weed shouldnt. period

oh and just to be clear I do have a LEGIT cannabis card for a LEGIT reason and I honestly would not be able to make it more than a few days without smoking, you may call that dependency or addiction, but I have quit smoking weed numerous times (for extended periods of time) and I have been trying to quit cigs since high school with no luck for more than a week or 2.

If anyone wants to know my reason for having a cannabis card I have no problems sharing that as well.

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by WakeBHR

I still dont understand why it should be illegal and alchohol and cigs arent.

I whole heartedly agree, I don't see any reason why it SHOULD be illegal. I'm not arguing for it to stay illegal either.

No matter how you cut it alcohol and cigs cause waaaaaaaaay more deaths, say "illicit drugs" all you want but the fact is marijuana has never directly caused a death.

I can tell you for a fact since the drug is ILLEGAL it is not easy to keep track of actual figures. Its easy to keep track of alcohol and tobacco related incidents since these are LEGAL.

Bad judgment maybe which resulted in a accident but I feel that is still grossly overshadowed by the amount of alchy related deaths. but we are still allowed to go out and get plastered and hop behind the wheel which puts everyone on the road at risk. Im not saying that weed doesnt cause people to drive stupidly but I know way more people that are mor cautious while driving high because they get paranoid. I personally love driving high and have never had an accident or even really a close call while doing so. I however NEVER drink and drive because judgment is far more impaired and Im am just plain scared because of how far off center I feel.

You can't possibly judge what effects somebody more either alcohol or weed. You can't tell me what works for me or what will make more or less impared.

now you can compare the factors such as body weight, eating habits for the day, amount drank/smoked in what amount of time, personal tolerance to said substances, and the bottom line is that weed doesnt affect ANYONE as strongly as alcohol. If you sit down and smoke a joint and sit down and take a shot of 80 proof, i guarantee that you will be more fucked up from the alcohol.
Say what you want but there is no legit reason that alchy should be legal and weed shouldnt. period

Again this goes to my previous statement there is NO WAY you can tell me what will have a greater effect. You cannot guarantee anything. I have stated above that I agree it should be legalized though for the pure benefit of profit.

oh and just to be clear I do have a LEGIT cannabis card for a LEGIT reason and I honestly would not be able to make it more than a few days without smoking, you may call that dependency or addiction, but I have quit smoking weed numerous times (for extended periods of time) and I have been trying to quit cigs since high school with no luck for more than a week or 2.

If anyone wants to know my reason for having a cannabis card I have no problems sharing that as well.

Thats fine, but you haven't actually "quit" if you come back to smoking. Also I would definitely consider that a "dependency", regardless of whether its legal or not.

[S14_Kouki]

Yes sleepy240 you are right I also said it. You cant tell the effects on someone cause like alcohol everyones body reacts different. But I have never never smoked got behind the wheel and said im way to high to drive. Unlike very sad but tru I have got behind the wheel after drinking and said I should not be driving.

But one of the big truths is the government does not want to legalize because allll these years they have been saying brainwashing the american people that marijuana is really bad will kill you this and that. Now if they legalize people will ask questions like, Why would u legalize something that is so bad for us were u lieing this whole time?? They the higher power people dont want us regular people asking questions. When we catch the government in a lie that is not good on there part even tho we already no the government lies to us everyday. Marijuana is a multi billion $ business and its so stupid for the government to pass up this opportunity.

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by S14_Kouki

But one of the big truths is the government does not want to legalize because allll these years they have been saying brainwashing the american people that marijuana is really bad will kill you this and that. Now if they legalize people will ask questions like, Why would u legalize something that is so bad for us were u lieing this whole time?? They the higher power people dont want us regular people asking questions. When we catch the government in a lie that is not good on there part even tho we already no the government lies to us everyday. Marijuana is a multi billion $ business and its so stupid for the government to pass up this opportunity.

I can see quite a few reasons as to WHY the government does not want to legalize it. One of them NOT being because they were "lying" for all these years.

#1 - Controlling the substance
Controlling the Marijuana traffic will be very difficult in the beginning. Basically you make it almost impossible to deciefer (sp?) what is LEGAL (controlled) Marijuana and what is something that you purchased from a street corner (which could contain anything, specifically something NOT controlled by the governments legalization)
#2 - How much is too much?
You have to face the facts that with drugs come crime. That is a proven fact, even if legalized the initial problems will be obvious. The government would have to control the total amount of the substance (to try and stop abuse), especially EARLY in the legalizations life. Too much and it will just be sitting around. All though I realize this is kind of a foreign concept but it is very possible depending on the price.
#3 - Cost?
Where does the government choose to buy its initial amount of Marijuana? It does not just grow over night. Obviously they are not going to buy from cartels and the like. Does leave it to Joe Schmoe in Nebraska growing some? Do you pardon the individuals who were breaking previous laws by growing this while it was illegal?

These are just 3 off the top of my head...

[BostonDriftah]

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

I see alot wrong with "that". You can't be selective when it comes to these things, laws are in place to protect people and OUR liberties. Most of which you seem to take for granted. Am I saying that Marijuana being criminalized is great? No! Do I care if it gets legalized? No! But saying "no harm no foul" is just plain retarded. If you wanna smoke in your house have at enjoy yourself. The second you step outside your door being "high" and get behind the wheel of a motor vehicle thats another story. By the way "one man" does not control anything. Lets not turn this into a conspiracy thread.

Laws dont protect your liberties young blood. they remove them.
ie patriot act....


the CONSTITUTION IS YOUR LIBERTY.
but you knew that.

being all 23 yrs old and super smart and a ZILVIA spokes person.

try this site when you look for info instead of letting your lil mind cook some shit up.
google.com

YouTube - Bob Marley - Smoke Two Joints

oh and Sleepy240.
your going to far.

reread all your replies...
cuz I DIDNT! lol

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by BostonDriftah

Laws dont protect your liberties young blood. they remove them.
ie patriot act....


the CONSTITUTION IS YOUR LIBERTY.
but you knew that.

being all 23 yrs old and super smart and a ZILVIA spokes person.

try this site when you look for info instead of letting your lil mind cook some shit up.
google.com

YouTube - Bob Marley - Smoke Two Joints

oh and Sleepy240.
your going to far.

reread all your replies...
cuz I DIDNT! lol

Feel free to go another country that as more Liberties and a non "controlling" government. I may only be 23 years of age. I serve to protect this country and OUR freedoms. Whether you enjoy it or not nobody is keeping you here, feel free to leave if you don't enjoy the liberties we have. Has the patriot act actually effected you? Have you lost any of your liberties? Because you can't smoke Marijuana your anti-government?

[S14_Kouki]

Your #1 statement : You are talking about the government cant control who you buy from you say theres a good chance of someone putting something in your weed. Im pretty sure 95% of ppl know the person they are getting it from. I have never bought something off of a street corner thats just plan stupid and not safe. So your person you know you have prob knowin for awhile so there not going to try and fuck you over cause there goes there business and friendship.

Your #2 Statement : Well it is a proven fact that when Oakland, CA passed there marijuana tax law the crime rate went down. Reason they have a lot less people buying off the street and now buying in a controlled place. And not to mention alot less ppl staying out of our court systems and jails for more room for real criminals.

Your #3 Statement : Buy there initial amount of Marijuana. Well I dont have the exact anwser to that. But where do the legal medical marijuana places buy from?? Im sure the government will buy from there sources. And they will not hire Joe Schmoe to grow. This is where our point of job opportunity come into play. The government will have there own big grow houses with there ppl they hire to grow just like someone grows large amounts of flowers there will be a place controlled by the gonvernment that grows large amounts of marijuana. IDK what they would do about the ppl that are in jail now.

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by S14_Kouki

Your #1 statement : You are talking about the government cant control who you buy from you say theres a good chance of someone putting something in your weed. Im pretty sure 95% of ppl know the person they are getting it from. I have never bought something off of a street corner thats just plan stupid and not safe. So your person you know you have prob knowin for awhile so there not going to try and fuck you over cause there goes there business and friendship.

Your #2 Statement : Well it is a proven fact that when Oakland, CA passed there marijuana tax law the crime rate went down. Reason they have a lot less people buying off the street and now buying in a controlled place. And not to mention alot less ppl staying out of our court systems and jails for more room for real criminals.

Your #3 Statement : Buy there initial amount of Marijuana. Well I dont have the exact anwser to that. But where do the legal medical marijuana places buy from?? Im sure the government will buy from there sources. And they will not hire Joe Schmoe to grow. This is where our point of job opportunity come into play. The government will have there own big grow houses with there ppl they hire to grow just like someone grows large amounts of flowers there will be a place controlled by the gonvernment that grows large amounts of marijuana. IDK what they would do about the ppl that are in jail now.

My point for reason #1 is that buying from somebody "you know" would NOT be legal. It would still be ILLEGAL because the government is not getting the profit from that sale. So how do you distinguish between some "street" marijuana and the government taxed marijuana? The reason for the numbers going down in your example #2 is that the drug is still for sale on the street. For instance somebody who is ADDICTED to the drug but cannot afford to buy it what do they do?? Steal it, or buy it from a source not sanctioned by the government. The government would CONTROL the pricing aspect just like that of ciggarettes. And to #3, I am unsure as to how the government procures its resources now but I'm sure that these sources cannot supply the ENTIRE country with the demand.

[deolio]

^no one respond. it's going to get this shit locked guaranteed.

[S14_Kouki]

give me a min iv been busy

[joefresh]

I have been a MMJ patient for almost 3years, I get legal buds no hassle...I doubt Marijuana will ever be more legal than it is now, sure it might be legalized nationwide but not for everyone, it will probably still be considered a prescription drug. any questions i can probably answer I have been doing this for a while now

[S14_Kouki]

There is really no way to distinguish between the two you are right. But if the government does not charge over street value, shit or even if they charge 5$ less then street value ppl will buy thur the government just to save money. That would be the smart thing to do. I really dont think anyone is addicted to marijuana. Why are ppl addicted to ciggs?? because of the nicotine thats why they make nicotine gum, patches, nasal spray ect ect to stop the addiction. I personally got laid off almost 3 months ago that was the last day I smoked. So I can clean my system and get a good job. I have not had any pot fitts, yelling, kicking ppls asses nothing im doing just fine.
In my book, smoke > drink

You contradict yourself you say if someone has no money to buy it they will steal it, OR BUY it from someone else. How can they buy it if they dont have money?? Like I said if the government was smart they would price there stuff just under street prices then that person would go to the government instead of the streets. And lets face it theres always going to be ppl, scum might I say that is going to steal no matter the price no matter if they have money or not thats just life.

And I am unsure how the government gets there stuff now and no it would not be enough. Buttttt thats why there will be job opportunity's because bigger and bigger marijuana cultivation company's will open so they will grow to meet the needs of the smokers. Just like tobacco company's grow more and more tobacco to keep up with the growing need same with corn, tomato's, wheat, ect ect

[joefresh]

I am addicted to marijuana, however i medicate with about 3g. per day. It really just depends it helps me live a functional life, however i know some people that are not medical patients, smoke recreationally and are total wastoids...I have never met anyone rob or steal for some bud, that is insane imo. FAct is if Gov regulation and taxation stepped in the prices would probably fall for medical dispenciaries and drug dealers would continue selling heroin and shit like that. If you know anyting about the "street" you would know Quantity is how you profit and nobody buys pounds of herb on the corner...also the Gov would just grow Marijuana like they already do along with many other drugs

[S14_Kouki]

^^ Well I guess there are ppl addicted that proves me wrong on that theory lol. Plus that 3g's can go fast depending on how much you smoke in one sitting and what you smoke with. But dont tell us that cause this shit will get closed.

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by S14_Kouki

There is really no way to distinguish between the two you are right. But if the government does not charge over street value, shit or even if they charge 5$ less then street value ppl will buy thur the government just to save money.

To be honest the government only sees in $$$ with a topic like these. From my basic understanding to undercut the "street" prices the government would basically be taking a loss on this investment. On top of that IT WILL be taxed. Hell people freaked out when they increased the prices/taxes on ciggarettes, imagine Marijuana??

You contradict yourself you say if someone has no money to buy it they will steal it, OR BUY it from someone else. How can they buy it if they dont have money?? Like I said if the government was smart they would price there stuff just under street prices then that person would go to the government instead of the streets. And lets face it theres always going to be ppl, scum might I say that is going to steal no matter the price no matter if they have money or not thats just life.

Some of these relates to the previous paragraph but I totally agree there will always be scum. The problem is its a well known fact that DRUGS (in general) lead to an increase in crime. Sadly I don't view marijuana as a seperate "drug" its included in that catagory. People are killed over the drugs everyday and thats undeniable. Blah blah I know its not DIRECTLY because of marijuana but it happens.

And I am unsure how the government gets there stuff now and no it would not be enough. Buttttt thats why there will be job opportunity's because bigger and bigger marijuana cultivation company's will open so they will grow to meet the needs of the smokers. Just like tobacco company's grow more and more tobacco to keep up with the growing need same with corn, tomato's, wheat, ect ect

I would imagine they would purchase the quantities needed from OUT of country. I could see marijuana "farms" being nothing but a huge disaster. I understand some exist but not nearly to this magnitude. They would practically require military personal to secure it, to prevent thefts etc. Over time perhaps they could grow large quantities here but frankly most of the US is not mature enough for something like this.

If you know anyting about the "street" you would know Quantity is how you profit and nobody buys pounds of herb on the corner

I understand this, and this is my entire point. Nothing is going to stop the "street" dealing. The dealers really are not the ones profiting. Sure they may make thousands, but its the suppliers who sell LARGE quantities that are then devied out to the gangs/dealers etc. That is where the money is.