Weight obsession - part weights on S13

[codyace]

Originally Posted by SoSideways

If it's VVL then he definitely should be around 8000-8500rpm all day.

If it has a DE bottom end, then forget it, 9000rpm all day.

Well, VE's really die off hardcore on stock cams much north of the stock limit, but I can totally understand if upgraded valvetrain.

The NX initially went to 8200 IIRC with the DE and S5's. We never got a chance to really play with the rev limit on the dyno before he was sold on going vvl hehe.

WITH that said however, the VVL even with the same header and intake made better power all around and much more torque. As mucdh as I love a nice DE, the VVL is bar none the N/A 2.0 choice.

Originally Posted by racepar1

Just because you found some internet video where the z-s are spanking the s2k's does not make it universally true. From my own personal experience running track events I can assure you that it is usually the opposite of what you are claiming that is true. Let's not forget that the "Street RWD" record at buttonwillow is held by the Evasive S2K, not any z chasis. Personally I would rather own the z then the s2k, but I cannot disrespect the little Honda's capabilities.

I can totally agree to this, even with equal drivers. I too would take a Z before an S any day of the week, but when it comes to a HPDE type car, the S is 90% of the time the better car.

[kognition]

Agreed. My experience at the track with the 800 HP Doubledown Motorsports 350Z could still not come close to a 500 Hp tuned S2k like C West's. That car is just too heavy, has no airflow in the bay and always overheats, going into limp mode half the time. And still no championship titles that any Z can claim in time attack in the states.

Originally Posted by racepar1

Just because you found some internet video where the z-s are spanking the s2k's does not make it universally true. From my own personal experience running track events I can assure you that it is usually the opposite of what you are claiming that is true. Let's not forget that the "Street RWD" record at buttonwillow is held by the Evasive S2K, not any z chasis. Personally I would rather own the z then the s2k, but I cannot disrespect the little Honda's capabilities.

[slider2828]

Originally Posted by kognition

Agreed. My experience at the track with the 800 HP Doubledown Motorsports 350Z could still not come close to a 500 Hp tuned S2k like C West's. That car is just too heavy, has no airflow in the bay and always overheats, going into limp mode half the time. And still no championship titles that any Z can claim in time attack in the states.

I wonder how the 2010 JGTC Z won the championship this year.... I think only 370's overheat stock LOL.... 350's just overheat after awhile LOL....

[josephin510]

Originally Posted by Def

What do you mean what do I mean? The Stance coilover was junk, and the adjuster was just some needle valve being moved in a bypass circuit. The "clicks" are just drilled holes under the adjuster with a ball detent, so more holes = "more clicks." Super performance oriented yo!

They also had a laughable shim stack, but it explains why their compression and rebound curves are almost completely linear.

I meant to say explain. I was a lil tired from a wild JUSTIN BIEBER concert I screamed my lungs out.:ghey:

[Wookie384]

Originally Posted by codyace

With an N/A car, it may not be a bad idea to possibly even look into a 4.6 and then raise the rev's to the 8300-8500 range. That would be kinda fun.

Good friend of mine had a NX2000 that used to be a full on N/A car with a upgraded final drive and bolt ons(hotshot header, intake, JWT S5 cams, etc etc) and it was a blast to rocket it to north of 8000 rpm) He's since went VVL (which is even more fun as it isn't totally gutless) but man that thing loved the upper RPM

I thought about the the 4.6 but to be honest I'm too broke to afford it, and I would really like to get the car running already. But I might look into it also in the future. Because N/A headers that fit a LHD S13 are pretty much impossible to find I'm actually looking for a header for a KA24DE so I can chop off the the KA flange and weld on the SR flange, supposedly that's the route N/A SR owners with LHD chassis go, But yeah, I will have some decent bolt-ons any maybe a tune hopefully.

Originally Posted by SoSideways

If it's VVL then he definitely should be around 8000-8500rpm all day.

If it has a DE bottom end, then forget it, 9000rpm all day.

My motor is an S13 SR20DE which is believed to be out of a Silvia Q's model (No VVL).


Back to the original topic of this thread... How about going Silvia front, isn't there a significance difference in weight since the pop up lights have all those parts as opposed to the fixed Silvia lights?

[SoSideways]

Originally Posted by Wookie384

Back to the original topic of this thread... How about going Silvia front, isn't there a significance difference in weight since the pop up lights have all those parts as opposed to the fixed Silvia lights?

Silvia front isn't as aero dynamic as the pop up front.

All you have to do is take the motors out and the remaining front light assembly will be VERY LIGHT.

[Wookie384]

Originally Posted by SoSideways

Silvia front isn't as aero dynamic as the pop up front.

All you have to do is take the motors out and the remaining front light assembly will be VERY LIGHT.

Hmmm... I've always thought the Silvia front was better in the aero dept. and maybe even yeild a better coefficent of drag, I guess I was wrong. I guess it would be smart to at the very least convert to Hella housings for the front end, those should considerably lighter than the glass housings, correct?

[SoSideways]

Hella housings ARE glass, from what I can remember.

They just have better light spread and a much better cut off, and allows you to run H4 light bulbs, so when a bulb goes out, you just replace the light bulb and not have to worry about getting another glass housing.

Plus, I think someone weighed the pop up light motors, and I think they said they were either 9lbs each side, or 9lbs total. I can't remember. I'll have to look it up.

[slider2828]

Silvia front ends aren't more aero dynamic, but it does allow more airflow into the IC if you remove the center grill.

[SoSideways]

I think he is thinking of the Silvia S13 aero front bumper, which does create a little more downforce and less drag than any of the 180sx front ends, because the bumper is flat and goes aaaaaaaaaaall the way back to the engine cross member or somewhere around there, thus promoting a little more aerodynamic efficiency.

However, Def's car has a full splitter in the front, so that pretty much negates the Silvia S13 aero front bumper being more aerodynamic than the 180sx front end notion there.

[GripTerror]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Feelings are for girls, facts are for men.

Is it "that much faster" or just "that much noisier"?

Real men don't complain about noise, they make noise.

Originally Posted by Corbic

I hear he has a terrifying grip.

You heard right

Originally Posted by SoSideways

Oh no you didn't.

Watch out man, he works out, and makes fun of people who have powersteering because he can turn his 330mm steering wheel with just 2 fingers.

^The nerd has spoken

I like raw cars, stop hating, as russel peters china accent said "be a man" lol

[klits562]

Originally Posted by SoSideways

Hella housings ARE glass, from what I can remember.

They just have better light spread and a much better cut off, and allows you to run H4 light bulbs, so when a bulb goes out, you just replace the light bulb and not have to worry about getting another glass housing.

Plus, I think someone weighed the pop up light motors, and I think they said they were either 9lbs each side, or 9lbs total. I can't remember. I'll have to look it up.

I just changed the motors for my popups on sunday, i didnt weight them but i can assure you that its 9lbs both, not each.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by Wookie384

I thought about the the 4.6 but to be honest I'm too broke to afford it, and I would really like to get the car running already. But I might look into it also in the future. Because N/A headers that fit a LHD S13 are pretty much impossible to find I'm actually looking for a header for a KA24DE so I can chop off the the KA flange and weld on the SR flange, supposedly that's the route N/A SR owners with LHD chassis go, But yeah, I will have some decent bolt-ons any maybe a tune hopefully.

Don't worry Kevin. If I decide that we need 4.6 gear's, we'll get em. I honestly think that the 4.36's that we both already have is the hot ticket for a street driven car though.

Back to the original topic of this thread... How about going Silvia front, isn't there a significance difference in weight since the pop up lights have all those parts as opposed to the fixed Silvia lights?

The silvia front end weighs around 40lbs lighter from what I have read. Every single part is lighter and the cooling is definitely better. While the s-13 pop-up front end is more aerodynamic for the most part I am more than willing to bet that the difference is minute though, especially with aftermarket bumpers and such. The ONLY reasons that I'm not chomping at the bit to get a silvia front is because of my Gracer aero that I already have and the fact that I already have a shitty (but light) "carbon" hood. That Gracer bumper and sides are just too sexy together to take them off just yet...

[Wookie384]

Originally Posted by SoSideways

Hella housings ARE glass, from what I can remember.

They just have better light spread and a much better cut off, and allows you to run H4 light bulbs, so when a bulb goes out, you just replace the light bulb and not have to worry about getting another glass housing.

Plus, I think someone weighed the pop up light motors, and I think they said they were either 9lbs each side, or 9lbs total. I can't remember. I'll have to look it up.

Good to know, I've never actually held Hella housings personally, I always assumed they were made of plastic of some sort.

Originally Posted by slider2828

Silvia front ends aren't more aero dynamic, but it does allow more airflow into the IC if you remove the center grill.

I'm not worried about airflow to the IC/rad. as much as I am about aerodynamics/weight.

Originally Posted by SoSideways

I think he is thinking of the Silvia S13 aero front bumper, which does create a little more downforce and less drag than any of the 180sx front ends, because the bumper is flat and goes aaaaaaaaaaall the way back to the engine cross member or somewhere around there, thus promoting a little more aerodynamic efficiency.

However, Def's car has a full splitter in the front, so that pretty much negates the Silvia S13 aero front bumper being more aerodynamic than the 180sx front end notion there.

Yeah, I was thinking about the Aero bumper for the S13 Silvia.

Originally Posted by racepar1

Don't worry Kevin. If I decide that we need 4.6 gear's, we'll get em. I honestly think that the 4.36's that we both already have is the hot ticket for a street driven car though.



The silvia front end weighs around 40lbs lighter from what I have read. Every single part is lighter and the cooling is definitely better. While the s-13 pop-up front end is more aerodynamic for the most part I am more than willing to bet that the difference is minute though, especially with aftermarket bumpers and such. The ONLY reasons that I'm not chomping at the bit to get a silvia front is because of my Gracer aero that I already have and the fact that I already have a shitty (but light) "carbon" hood. That Gracer bumper and sides are just too sexy together to take them off just yet...

Good, because I don't care about streetability, haha find that damn 4.6 already! lol

You could always buy the Silvia front and sell me the Gracier Aero, in fact It would be a nice Birfday present!


BTW: Aron, Are Congrats in order yet?!?

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by Wookie384

BTW: Aron, Are Congrats in order yet?!?

Yes sir, I've got a perfect 10lb 4oz baby girl! As far as the Gracer stuff goes, you're shit out of luck at least for a while. It's just too sexy.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by racepar1

Don't worry Kevin. If I decide that we need 4.6 gear's, we'll get em. I honestly think that the 4.36's that we both already have is the hot ticket for a street driven car though.

What size tire are you planning on running?

A 4.6 will go 130 in 4th with a a 265/35/18, so with a slightly smaller 17, and some more RPM I could easily see it doing the same. Can't much better than that IMO. Again from FWD experience with high strung DE cars, the more gear made the car always better.


And congratulations on the baby girl! It's certainly a life altering event! My best friend recently had a little girl and it's kinda surreal to say the least

[kognition]

You cant compare a sorted out JGTC car to anything. They are in a class unto themselves. They are super lightened, and have extensive wind tunnel time. Alot of detail goes into those cars. These are million dollar cars your talking about. With the support and resources involved in their success.

Originally Posted by slider2828

I wonder how the 2010 JGTC Z won the championship this year.... I think only 370's overheat stock LOL.... 350's just overheat after awhile LOL....

[slider2828]

Originally Posted by kognition

You cant compare a sorted out JGTC car to anything. They are in a class unto themselves. They are super lightened, and have extensive wind tunnel time. Alot of detail goes into those cars. These are million dollar cars your talking about. With the support and resources involved in their success.

Agreed, but they run the same engine VQ35DE, so they had to be able to make it reliable and HP. In the final round this year, they had a ridiculous lead on the entire field.... Not talking about aero specifically, but this is similar to the cwest full carbon s2k....

[GripTerror]

Are you kidding, what the others said, the jgtc cars not only DONT run the original engines they are completely re-engineered monsters, suspension and otherwise.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by slider2828

Agreed, but they run the same engine VQ35DE, so they had to be able to make it reliable and HP. In the final round this year, they had a ridiculous lead on the entire field.... Not talking about aero specifically, but this is similar to the cwest full carbon s2k....

It's like saying Jimmy Johnson's small block is why the ne Zo6's run well...totally unrelated engines, other than the brand name on the valve covers.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by codyace

What size tire are you planning on running?

A 4.6 will go 130 in 4th with a a 265/35/18, so with a slightly smaller 17, and some more RPM I could easily see it doing the same. Can't much better than that IMO. Again from FWD experience with high strung DE cars, the more gear made the car always better.

I plan on running a 255/40/17 for now. Eventually I would like to switch to 255 or 265/35/18's. I just really liked the way my car felt with the 4.36. It was nice on the highway and pulled much better on the track. The 4.6 is obviously the next step, but I need to get more track time with the 4.3 before I decide to switch.

And congratulations on the baby girl! It's certainly a life altering event! My best friend recently had a little girl and it's kinda surreal to say the least

It's actually my second baby girl, my first is 3 now...

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by kognition

You cant compare a sorted out JGTC car to anything. They are in a class unto themselves. They are super lightened, and have extensive wind tunnel time. Alot of detail goes into those cars. These are million dollar cars your talking about. With the support and resources involved in their success.

When I look at the front end of a JGTC car the first thing I notice is all the ductwork behind the bumper and out through the hood and fenders. The engine bay airflow is meticulously managed. It was ridiculous to try and compare pretty much any other z to the JGTC cars.

[kognition]

Not trying to gang up on you or anything. So please don't take offense.
The C West S2K isn't unique in any respect. Anyone stateside can achieve the same with off the shelf bolt on body panels. It has high rpm and about 400-500 ish hp. But always always blew head gaskets at every event. It was more Tyler than car to be honest.

Originally Posted by slider2828

Agreed, but they run the same engine VQ35DE, so they had to be able to make it reliable and HP. In the final round this year, they had a ridiculous lead on the entire field.... Not talking about aero specifically, but this is similar to the cwest full carbon s2k....

[ZilviaKid]

Originally Posted by Matej

more info on these at all?

build thread or something of the sort would be awesome.

[conrad_s13.5]

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