This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[GripTerror]

hah i was just gona post in this thread and ask did it did and whats up to all. No news for a while. I guess its winter coming No nws from powered by max or def lol

[PoorMans180SX]

Yeah, I've been super busy, and haven't done the editing to the OG post that I've wanted to.

I'll try and get on that.

[95KA-Turbo]

My new spindles have been welded, I just have to track down a 5/8" drill bit and figure out a way to use the drill press to drill out the tie rod spot and use the taper bit for my ball joint spot and I can post up sweet suspension porn.

[Slidin' Sam]

Originally Posted by DC Dan MAX USA

I have made myself a note to contact you when they arrive.

Domo sir! Much appreciated!

Originally Posted by 95KA-Turbo

My new spindles have been welded, I just have to track down a 5/8" drill bit and figure out a way to use the drill press to drill out the tie rod spot and use the taper bit for my ball joint spot and I can post up sweet suspension porn.

Sweet! I LOVE suspension porn! It's almost as good as real porn!

[GripTerror]

This is pretty creative, it was on a Volvo though:

[DamienM]

Cool idea.. More reactive steering and increased steering angle

[mmdb]

Originally Posted by GripTerror

This is pretty creative, it was on a Volvo though:

Nice find! I like how you can change ackerman along with roll center.

[Def]

Originally Posted by mmdb

Nice find! I like how you can change ackerman along with roll center.

Those holes look like they're in a straight line out from the ball joint, so they wouldn't change the ackerman at the different settings. Since they go straight to the stock steering arm hole, looks like the ackerman is held the same.

[95KA-Turbo]

I wasn't going to post these up because my front suspension is all out of whack in these pictures, but I figured why not.

These are NOT the spindles I am going to be running, I just slapped everything together so I could get the car on and off the trailer.





Underside shot...


You can see how out of whack my alignment is, haha.

[Def]

What brakes are you running? I didn't think that long of a shank would fit on a stock spindle before hitting the rotor.

[95KA-Turbo]

I am running Q45 brakes.

It was hitting just barely so I had to grind a little of it down, then I made he discovery tonight that it hits at full lock, so I am going to have to do some more grinding. I am not sure if I will be able to add the 10mm spacer without making it hit even more.

I am thinking about making some 3mm spacers to put behind the rotors to push them out a tiny bit. Do you think I will need to reposition the calipers too?

[Def]

Yes. In fact, I'd just cut the shank down some vs. spacing out your brake caliper. That just sounds like a bad idea. Could work in practice, but having to move the caliper out, and then having a ghetto setup for a few more mm of arm angle.... I wouldn't do it personally.

[olah.inc]

Driftworks will soon release the geomaster hub knuckles MK2...

...A few geometry tweaks to slightly improve the already insane amounts of lock.

The major change is that the rears will also work with the drum brake setup from S13/R32/R33 etc...

[az_240]

^Any more info or pics? I looked on their website but only saw the older style stuff.

Are they still using polyurethane in the rear upright?

[!Zar!]

Alright geometry bro's, I decided it was time to put my alignment above my wheel fitment game.

So I threw on some Kazama toe arms and some PBM Ruca's and tried to get 1.5*camber with 0 toe.

After threading out the ruca, it came out to an unsafe length, so I figured I would raise my car 1.5" (UGH), even after that, closest I could get to a safe distance was 3*.
WTF? I mean I could raise my car another inch, but it already looks like a pile of fucking dicks.

Yes, it is installed correctly, and no, my subframe isn't bent or anything.
So wtf.
Thoughts? Only other thing I could think of is trying a different set of ruca's, or cutting/shortening my lca's.

[C. Anderson]

Subframe risers will help a little. Other than that I don't know because my pbm stuff will let me run +15 camber if I wanted and I'm slammed.

[nieko]

Guessing you have stock traction rod huh?

When you slam your car that rod needs to get lengthened too to get the goemtry right again.

go buy a traction rod

[thefro526]

Nieko corrected me, I must've miss read the post I saw. Whoops.

[nieko]

^^^^^^^ what you read was the OPPOSITE of the problem.

The guy that had the issue had a slammed car but wanted MORE camber and the rod was maxxed in.

Get at traction rod, make it longer, ta da.

[!Zar!]

Yeah, I want more positive camber. I'd like to get it down to 1.5, which shouldn't be a problem one would think...

This is the first car I've had toe and ruca's, without traction rods. I guess if I bought some, or added 10cm or the stock ones or something that would help a little?

I drove the car with the, formula-d ride height, and I can see why a lot of people have risen their cars. It was so much more predictable, stable, and accurate.

But it is also a lot uglier.

I still have the stock subframe; it's an s13. So I guess an s14 subframe along with raising it would help as well.

Guess it is time to stop the whole slammed drift car thing, and get on to the functional awesome handling drift car.

Damn it all.

[olah.inc]

Originally Posted by az_240

^Any more info or pics? I looked on their website but only saw the older style stuff.

Are they still using polyurethane in the rear upright?

i think more info`s will come in 3 weeks or so

[!Zar!]

Speaking of raising cars, in theory, all I needs to be done in order to correct suspension geometry once again is to have the arms level front and rear? Of course, matching the tie rod and tension rod angle.

[DC Dan MAX USA]

Originally Posted by GripTerror

No news for a while. I guess its winter coming No nws from powered by max or def lol

LCA's are at the factory getting produced, and tie rods are finished and stock is on its way.

I got some good track time on the prototypes and I love them! production parts will be much better than these.

Originally Posted by !Zar!

Alright geometry bro's, I decided it was time to put my alignment above my wheel fitment game.

So I threw on some Kazama toe arms and some PBM Ruca's and tried to get 1.5*camber with 0 toe.

After threading out the ruca, it came out to an unsafe length, so I figured I would raise my car 1.5" (UGH), even after that, closest I could get to a safe distance was 3*.
WTF? I mean I could raise my car another inch, but it already looks like a pile of fucking dicks.

Yes, it is installed correctly, and no, my subframe isn't bent or anything.
So wtf.
Thoughts? Only other thing I could think of is trying a different set of ruca's, or cutting/shortening my lca's.

my thought is that this thread is about having the best of both worlds, I dont see why you cant have proper alignment and wheel fitment

perhaps you have the version 1 RUCA which is shorter while version 2,3,4 is longer?

MAX would be 20mm exposed large threads and 30mm exposed small threads.

This means you could move the small threads of the end joint out farther than the double adjuster (because the end joint is really long).

safest would be about 18mm exposed large threads and 16mm smaller threads. This comes from having the adjuster in the shortest position and only adjusting the adjuster, it leaves lots of overlap and is really strong.

Originally Posted by C. Anderson

Subframe risers will help a little. Other than that I don't know because my pbm stuff will let me run +15 camber if I wanted and I'm slammed.

correct SFR will help. they move the camber more positive.
you probably have the newer version and he likely has the oldest version.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

I drove the car with the, formula-d ride height, and I can see why a lot of people have risen their cars. It was so much more predictable, stable, and accurate.
.....
Guess it is time to stop the whole slammed drift car thing, and get on to the functional awesome handling drift car.

Damn it all.

*sniff* This brought a tear to my eye. Join the darkside!

[Slidin' Sam]

Dan, any word on pricing for the LCA's? Also, please don't forget to shoot me a PM when the tie rods are in stock so I can order them from you! Thanks!

[SoSideways]

So the PBM FLCAs will still have both the inner and outter rod ends in bending?

I was really hoping that wasn't going to be the case...

In any case, quick update.

Car is on the ground (has been since like last Friday actually), and I've driven it around the block a couple of times.

Made some adjustments last night, and the last lap around the neighborhood felt good, so tonight I may put the rest of the car back together and actually drive it on the road for a proper road test.

Really would like to do a newspaper pull on the wheel arches towards the rear of the car, as I am rubbing the tires on both sides hitting bumps. Guhhhhh...

Will post pics of fronts before I put the front bumper back on and such.

[!Zar!]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

Speaking of raising cars, in theory, all I needs to be done in order to correct suspension geometry once again is to have the arms level front and rear? Of course, matching the tie rod and tension rod angle.

Yes? A little lower? Eh?

I just want to see my roll center like a fat man tryin to see his dick.

[PoorMans180SX]

How would the inner heims be in bending? They rotate vertically on the inner bolt.

Every aftermarket front arm uses heims like that on the inner.

Driftworks geomaster hub knuckles V2 article:

http://www.driftworks.com/2010/10/geometry-nirvana/

[DC Dan MAX USA]

Originally Posted by Slidin' Sam

Dan, any word on pricing for the LCA's? Also, please don't forget to shoot me a PM when the tie rods are in stock so I can order them from you! Thanks!

No pricing until just before they arrive. Sure thing.

Originally Posted by SoSideways

So the PBM FLCAs will still have both the inner and outter rod ends in bending?
I was really hoping that wasn't going to be the case...

Although the prototype parts are that way, and work just dandy...
The outer bearing on the FLCA is fully enclosed on the production version.

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

How would the inner heims be in bending? They rotate vertically on the inner bolt.
Every aftermarket front arm uses heims like that on the inner.

right! the inner is not the issue, its all the front braking torque on the outer

[codyace]

The Ultimate Handling Guide Part V: The One Unforgivable Sin, Overlowering Your Car

Just a funny/nice/informative little post by Mike Kojima over at MotoIQ about Roll Center and the sort. WHile most of us are beyond it, it's a nice thing for those just browsing this thread for the first time, and wanting to understand the basics.