is ground control suspension worth it?

[drift freaq]

wow I just got a dope ass idea for my Ohlins. The front stock Ohlin's top seal is a super wide ring seal i.e.2.5 inches with the shock body and the rest of the shock body tapers back to a more standard 52mm size. I am thinking of removing the front Ohlins from the stock body they come in and having a custom body made for them so I can get standard size spring collars and perches on them. What do you think?

[jmauld]

Originally Posted by Aoshi112

Yea that's the main reason why I wanted to go with Bilsteins. But i'm going to have Tim do some special work to mine

Are you talking about adding the schraeder valves? Bilstein will add those to the rears, but they claimed it couldn't be done to the fronts.

[jmauld]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

wow I just got a dope ass idea for my Ohlins. The front stock Ohlin's top seal is a super wide ring seal i.e.2.5 inches with the shock body and the rest of the shock body tapers back to a more standard 52mm size. I am thinking of removing the front Ohlins from the stock body they come in and having a custom body made for them so I can get standard size spring collars and perches on them. What do you think?

Do you have a picture? The bilsteins have a large ring, and it just pops off.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by jmauld

Do you have a picture? The bilsteins have a large ring, and it just pops off.

well I would have to change the housing because the housing is lipped out at the top seal and that measures at 2.5 which is the problem.

[AceInHole]

Originally Posted by Wiisass

Do you really think ditching the rear sway bar is helping? Just based on the numbers, the rear bar is already pretty soft, especially compared to the front. Is this going back to the lifting the rear wheel issue? Or do you really feel it helps put power down?

I think it goes beyond the rear wheel lift issue, to simply having a more "planted" rear end. The car is a LOT more predictable into, through, and out of sweepers, and the change in planting power out of low speed turns was huge. Just dropping the stock rear sway (even with a whiteline up front) made a noticeable improvement on high speed sections even with less than stock power.

Could is also have to do with a less rigid chassis because of no cage? And chassis flex is messing with rear loading coming out of the turn?

I doubt that chassis flex is that great that it'd mess with my roll resistance/ stiffness. The S14 chassis isn't THAT much of a noodle.

Have you noticed any steady-state understeer issues since removing it? Or is that the way you would rather have the car? More biased towards understeer, a little past neutral?

It's biased slightly towards steady state understeer, but it's honestly so close to neutral that just bumping tire pressures a bit in back gave the car a LOT of rotation with same size wheels all around. Really, any understeer can be dialed out by adding more spring, which will help the car rotate (oversteer) without adding bind or resistance of a swaybar.

I'm sure we've talked about all of this before, but just for everyone else and the other people that have removed the rear sway.

No problem. I've heard nothing but good things from people who've tried it. I got the idea from Mike Shields, who built and drove the current SCCA Solo DSP National Champion BMW 325. He just won his second title in a row... so it seems to work pretty well.

[koukimatt]

I want to lower my S14 some (1.5-2.5 inches, not slammed) and make it handle a little better on the street. I really appreciate all the info in this thread but some of it is way over my head. I've learned some of the terminology, but I don't totally understand how all the variables (compression, spring rate) work together to affect handling and ride smoothness.

Originally Posted by Wiisass

It's not so much that a good shock/spring setup versus a coilover. It's all just a spring and a damper. The problem is that most JDM coilovers have sub par damping. I wish there was a good JDM or any market coilover that had decent valving and wasn't a ridiculous price. It's too bad that these companies can't pull it off for some reason or another.

What do you mean by 'sub par'? Other posts in this thread give some examples of 'good' dampers like Konis and Bilsteins, but what's the technical difference between the good dampers and sub-par ones? Do good dampers have faster or slower compression? Faster or slower rebound? Progressive, linear or digressive response? More adjustability? Certain construction (monotube, twin-tube)? General quality?

Originally Posted by Wiisass

But there's a lot, or there should be a lot, that goes into selecting a spring rate. [...] Usually you can pick a good starting point and then fine tune from there.

The only springs I have to compare against are the S14 stock springs, which are rated for 2 kg/mm (110 lb/in) I think. What spring rates or specific spring models/families are appropriate for street and occasional track use, coupled with good dampers?

Originally Posted by Wiisass

After you get the spring rates, then you look at the dampers. [...] Or if you have dyno plots, you can calculate a range of springs that will work, then compare it to your other numbers, and then pick the best compromise.

How do you read a dyno graph -- what do the values mean? How do you match springs to dampers? Please give some examples of matched springs and dampers, for street and/or track use if you can think of some.

[koukimatt]

I'm still waiting for a respose... can anyone answer my questions?

Wiisass I PMmed some of the same questions to you a few days but I guess you didn't notice my message.

[jmauld]

Originally Posted by koukimatt

I'm still waiting for a respose... can anyone answer my questions?

Wiisass I PMmed some of the same questions to you a few days but I guess you didn't notice my message.

This is just my opinion, but for the majority of the people who want to just lower their car and are just getting into motorsports the following will get you what you're looking for..

Pick a front spring rate that will keep you off of the bumpstops during normal driving (not including hitting pot holes). Something in the 300-400lb range will generally do, depending on how low you want to lower the car, and the type of tire that you're using. Next, pick a rear spring that is between 0-100lbs lighter then the front spring. Getting the rates right to begin with, shouldn't concern you too much. They are cheap/easy to change and you can start adjusting them after you get some seattime and are able to feel the differences that different springs make.

Then get a set of shocks that can handle those spring rates. The important things to take from a shock dyno is whether or not the adjuster is adjusting both compression and rebound *(see below), and if the settings do what they say they do. IOW, if you turn the adjuster to a softer setting and the valving gets stiffer, run away from that shock.

You really don't need to get into the specifics of valving, unless you just want to. A quick phone call to a reputable rebuilding facility and they can take care of the valving for you. There's no need to learn that stuff unless you're just into it.

Some qualities of a good damper are that a single adjuster does not adjust both rebound and compression at the same time. It's not impossible, but very difficult to do any real tuning with a shock that does that. Almost all JDM coilovers use an adjuster that does both rebound and compression at the same time, because it's cheap and easy to implement. I believe the koni is the cheapest shock that effectively isolates rebound and compression. I say effectively, because even it's adjuster isn't 100% separate. FWIW, the adjustability of shocks isn't completely necessary for light duty motorsports use.

Again, this is just my opinion.

[koukimatt]

Thanks for the info, I'm really looking forward to putting together a nice setup for my car.

Originally Posted by jmauld

Then get a set of shocks that can handle those spring rates. The important things to take from a shock dyno is whether or not the adjuster is adjusting both compression and rebound *(see below), and if the settings do what they say they do. IOW, if you turn the adjuster to a softer setting and the valving gets stiffer, run away from that shock.

The Koni Yellows are OE replacements, so they can be installed with minimal work, correct? People have also discussed the 86xxs in this thread; besides the fact that the 86xxs are just inserts (so you have to modify/fabricate housings for them) what's the difference between them and the Yellows? What range of spring rates are the Yellows and 86xxs matched for? I don't know where to find dyno plots for them; I downloaded the application guide, catalog and technical info PDFs from Koni's website but they don't contain plots for the Yellows or 86xxs.

Konis seem like the way to go, so I did a little shopping. The best deal I found on a set of 4 Yellows for S14 fitment was $510 including shipping, from http://www.importhorizon.com/koniyellow.html. I found some positive reviews for that site on other forums so they're probably legit.

What comes with a Ground Control kit? Sleeves, perches, tophats, Eibach Racing Springs with your choice of spring rate... anything else? Does the kit install right on the Koni Yellows or is any additional hardware required?

[jmauld]

Originally Posted by koukimatt

Thanks for the info, I'm really looking forward to putting together a nice setup for my car.



The Koni Yellows are OE replacements, so they can be installed with minimal work, correct? People have also discussed the 86xxs in this thread; besides the fact that the 86xxs are just inserts (so you have to modify/fabricate housings for them) what's the difference between them and the Yellows? What range of spring rates are the Yellows and 86xxs matched for? I don't know where to find dyno plots for them; I downloaded the application guide, catalog and technical info PDFs from Koni's website but they don't contain plots for the Yellows or 86xxs.

Call Koni and ask them.

Originally Posted by koukimatt

Konis seem like the way to go, so I did a little shopping. The best deal I found on a set of 4 Yellows for S14 fitment was $510 including shipping, from http://www.importhorizon.com/koniyellow.html. I found some positive reviews for that site on other forums so they're probably legit.

I prefer bilsteins, but they are next to impossible to find.

Originally Posted by koukimatt

What comes with a Ground Control kit? Sleeves, perches, tophats, Eibach Racing Springs with your choice of spring rate... anything else? Does the kit install right on the Koni Yellows or is any additional hardware required?

If you purchase a set of Ground Controls and Koni's, you will have everything you need to install them. I would also recommend a good camber plate, but that's not required.

If you go with the standard konis there is an easy way to get an extra inch of shock travel out of them. You'll void the warranty if you do it though.

[Wiisass]

Originally Posted by jmauld

Are you talking about adding the schraeder valves? Bilstein will add those to the rears, but they claimed it couldn't be done to the fronts.

It can be done, it's not easy and I'm still working on the best way to do it and maintain enough clearances, but it's definitely doable.

Originally Posted by AceInHole

I think it goes beyond the rear wheel lift issue, to simply having a more "planted" rear end. The car is a LOT more predictable into, through, and out of sweepers, and the change in planting power out of low speed turns was huge. Just dropping the stock rear sway (even with a whiteline up front) made a noticeable improvement on high speed sections even with less than stock power.


I doubt that chassis flex is that great that it'd mess with my roll resistance/ stiffness. The S14 chassis isn't THAT much of a noodle.


It's biased slightly towards steady state understeer, but it's honestly so close to neutral that just bumping tire pressures a bit in back gave the car a LOT of rotation with same size wheels all around. Really, any understeer can be dialed out by adding more spring, which will help the car rotate (oversteer) without adding bind or resistance of a swaybar.


No problem. I've heard nothing but good things from people who've tried it. I got the idea from Mike Shields, who built and drove the current SCCA Solo DSP National Champion BMW 325. He just won his second title in a row... so it seems to work pretty well.

I can see how it would help put down power. And of course there's a lot of different variables that can contribute to under/oversteer balance. And I know it can be dialed out with adding stiffer springs, but sometimes that's not something you want to do. Oh well, this isn't the place to get too into this. And it really depends on a lot of other things. But one other thing, are the rear springs captive or do they hang loose when at fulll droop?

Originally Posted by koukimatt

I want to lower my S14 some (1.5-2.5 inches, not slammed) and make it handle a little better on the street. I really appreciate all the info in this thread but some of it is way over my head. I've learned some of the terminology, but I don't totally understand how all the variables (compression, spring rate) work together to affect handling and ride smoothness.



What do you mean by 'sub par'? Other posts in this thread give some examples of 'good' dampers like Konis and Bilsteins, but what's the technical difference between the good dampers and sub-par ones? Do good dampers have faster or slower compression? Faster or slower rebound? Progressive, linear or digressive response? More adjustability? Certain construction (monotube, twin-tube)? General quality?




The only springs I have to compare against are the S14 stock springs, which are rated for 2 kg/mm (110 lb/in) I think. What spring rates or specific spring models/families are appropriate for street and occasional track use, coupled with good dampers?




How do you read a dyno graph -- what do the values mean? How do you match springs to dampers? Please give some examples of matched springs and dampers, for street and/or track use if you can think of some.

Matt, what you ask for isn't something that can be easily explained. There should be a lot that goes into spring rate selection. And there are some different methods depending on your background, experience, what you really want to get out of it. But answering your questions would take a book, what you ask isn't as cut as dry as some people may think.

Things that influence spring rate selection, sprung weight, unsprung weight, suspension geometry, wheel size, tire size, sway bars available, dampers available, wheel travel, natural frequencies, oversteer/understeer balance, roll gradient, lateral load transfer distrubution, tire curves, etc. All of these should be factored in and/or considered during the process.

As for dampers. The damper body doesn't matter so much, well it does for a strut because a strut sees bending loads due to the suspension design. But for shocks, let's just assume that the body design is fine. So it's what's inside that matter, the shim stacks, the piston design, the fluid viscosity, the nitrogen pressure, etc. So just saying Koni or Bilstein or Ohlins or any other company is almost irrelevant. From companies like the ones I mentioned and a few others, you get better quality. More consistent damping, better support, better design, etc. But the valving still needs to be matched to the car. You could take a random Ohlins damper and it could suck if you just threw it on a random car, but if it was matched, then it would be awesome. You also have to factor in adjusters and how they affect everything, like Jmauld was saying. But adjusters aren't always necessary, and for most people, they will hurt the car or adjust something that doesn't need to be adjusted just for the fact that they can.

As for what you look for in a curve, the damping force available, needs to match what the car wants and what the driving needs. Go to my site and read what I've posted in my forum and the articles I've written, a lot is in there. It's easier than me typing everything out again, and I really don't have the time.

So go read the stuff I've written on my site, link is in sig, and then you can look at some of the other resources on there and if you have more questions let me know.

Originally Posted by jmauld

This is just my opinion, but for the majority of the people who want to just lower their car and are just getting into motorsports the following will get you what you're looking for..

Pick a front spring rate that will keep you off of the bumpstops during normal driving (not including hitting pot holes). Something in the 300-400lb range will generally do, depending on how low you want to lower the car, and the type of tire that you're using. Next, pick a rear spring that is between 0-100lbs lighter then the front spring. Getting the rates right to begin with, shouldn't concern you too much. They are cheap/easy to change and you can start adjusting them after you get some seattime and are able to feel the differences that different springs make.

Then get a set of shocks that can handle those spring rates. The important things to take from a shock dyno is whether or not the adjuster is adjusting both compression and rebound *(see below), and if the settings do what they say they do. IOW, if you turn the adjuster to a softer setting and the valving gets stiffer, run away from that shock.

You really don't need to get into the specifics of valving, unless you just want to. A quick phone call to a reputable rebuilding facility and they can take care of the valving for you. There's no need to learn that stuff unless you're just into it.

Some qualities of a good damper are that a single adjuster does not adjust both rebound and compression at the same time. It's not impossible, but very difficult to do any real tuning with a shock that does that. Almost all JDM coilovers use an adjuster that does both rebound and compression at the same time, because it's cheap and easy to implement. I believe the koni is the cheapest shock that effectively isolates rebound and compression. I say effectively, because even it's adjuster isn't 100% separate. FWIW, the adjustability of shocks isn't completely necessary for light duty motorsports use.

Again, this is just my opinion.

This sounds like one way to do it, I wouldn't do it this way, but Jmauld does bring up some good points.

The problems with this method, you need to base your wheel travel on shock choice and ride height and how much room you have. And do this on paper with some basic physics calcs to get an idea of wheel loads during cornering. It won't be accurate, but you can overestimate lateral and longitudinal acceleration and keep a factor of safety. Also, what spring you have in the back versus what spring you have in the front depends on the installation ratio and the weight balance. So for the 240, jmauld's estimate would probably work out, but for other cars, you need to take these other things into consideration.

Then picking a damper that will work with the spring rates, in order to do this, you need to see the dyno plot and know what forces you're looking for at what speeds. Or you need to get someone else to do it for you. Depending on how well you want the car to handle, this is a very critical step. I'm not sure by "make sure the shocks can handle the spring" means, because what amount of damping depends on what damping ratio you're looking for and how you want the car to work. But what was said about the adjusters, is important to consider. But not the most important. I would rather have a properly valved damper that was valved exactly how I wanted it than one with adjusters that worked correctly and could get me kind of close to what I wanted out of it.

Tim

[Wiisass]

Originally Posted by jmauld

Call Koni and ask them.


I prefer bilsteins, but they are next to impossible to find.

Last time I talked to the head of Koni Motorsports, they didn't have plots for the s-chassis yellows. They did have some stuff that would give you an idea of what you can get out of the 86series, but they were just PVP plots, which I hate.

Bilsteins aren't impossible to get, but they aren't easy either or cheap anymore, so it sucks.

[jmauld]

Originally Posted by Wiisass

Bilsteins aren't impossible to get, but they aren't easy either or cheap anymore, so it sucks.

I was specifically referring to the OEM replacments by Bilstein. I'd love to have a set for my daily, so if you have a source, PM me.

[jmauld]

Originally Posted by Wiisass

Then picking a damper that will work with the spring rates, in order to do this, you need to see the dyno plot and know what forces you're looking for at what speeds. Or you need to get someone else to do it for you. Depending on how well you want the car to handle, this is a very critical step. I'm not sure by "make sure the shocks can handle the spring" means, because what amount of damping depends on what damping ratio you're looking for and how you want the car to work. But what was said about the adjusters, is important to consider. But not the most important. I would rather have a properly valved damper that was valved exactly how I wanted it than one with adjusters that worked correctly and could get me kind of close to what I wanted out of it.

Tim

My suggestion on reading the plots, is specifically to point him to shocks such as Bilstein, Koni, Ohlins, etc, since 99% of the JDM units would fail at least one of those qualifications. Once you decide on one of those manufacturers, you're fairly safe relying on them to valve the shock for you based on how you want the car to respond. After you get some seat time under your belt, the shocks above will allow you to have a little fun with valving if you choose to go that route.

[image12]

whats the part number for the 8611 you guys run to fit the s14 front

[AceInHole]

Originally Posted by image12

whats the part number for the 8611 you guys run to fit the s14 front

They won't fit the OEM housings as they're retained by a gland nut. We're using 8611-1257's up front due to the shorter stroke and housing, though.

[sl4ck3r]

you guys are amazing. that is all.

[Gnnr]

Does anyone know who I should e-mail at Ground Control to get a reply? I sent "[email protected]" an e-mail last week and they still haven't answered me.

[koukimatt]

My S14 Koni Yellows and GC kit arrived today. My first concern is that I'm not sure how to install the coilover kit onto the dampers. The GC kit came with 10-15 black 1 1/2" o-rings; what are those for? The rear sleeves look like they slide on to the rear Yellows from the top down, but the sleeves fit so tightly around the shock tube, I'm not sure if I can slide them all the way down to sit on the snap-ring. As for the fronts... I've read the PDF from Koni describing how to modify the stock front strut housings, but that's for OEM springs... what do I need to do to the housings (if anything) for the GC setup? Do the sleeves go onto the shocks, or onto the strut housing? There's a short "inverted lip" at the top of the front sleeves, which looks like it fits around the lip/cap/collar on the top of the front dampers; is that all that's supporting the front sleeves, or do they sit on something else?

My second concern is... I'm not sure that I received the correct sleeves and springs. I ordered all of the parts over the phone from Dean at Stillen; I asked for the Koni Yellows and a GC kit with 400F/300R springs. He didn't object to my selection, nor did he say anything about the parts being incompatible, so I would hope everything matches. However, the stock springs on the car are 11" tall uncompressed (front and back); the new Eibach springs I received with the GC kit are 5" tall (Eibach part #143302, GC125.64.75), and the rears are 7" (Eibach part #204619-1, GC180.64.44). The front sleeves are 2.5" tall and the rears are 4". Both the new front and rear springs seem too short, but as I said before I don't know exactly how they should be installed.

Can someone with the same S14 setup confirm all this -- do I have the right parts?

[D1GP]

^^snap some pics^^

[koukimatt]

Relative spring sizes:

I understand that the new springs should be smaller in diameter, but the new front springs are less than half the height of the stock ones. Is that normal?

Front parts:

Do I slide the sleeve up the damper from bottom-to-top so the lip at the top of the damper sits in the bevel at the top of the sleeve?

Rear damper:


Rear sleeve:

Does the rear sleeve slide down onto the rear damper from the top until the black seat/fitting rests on the ring on the damper?

[McCoy]

I finally got the rest of my GC order in and put all the pieces together last night. I'm using the 8610 insert with Richards one-off housing for the front. I still have a few misc things to pick up, but for the most part its ready to go on the car this weekend.

Fronts... the odd ball part of this setup is that there is no tophat since I couldn't source a Tein one, we opted to go with a rubber donut that centers the spring around the bearing housing of the Tein camber plate and the torrington bearing is sandwiched between the eibach spring and GC adjustable perch at the bottom. This was an idea of someone that builds/sells custom suspension for the B13 crowd and was able to source teh parts from GC for me.


Rears... I'm actually using the B13 GC kit, so the threaded collar is taller than what typically is supplied with the S13 GC kit.

[koukimatt]

I've called GC 3 times, asking them to email me some instructions, called them 2 times; and posted on here. This seemed to be a lively thread before I posted, and then it died. I haven't received responses from anybody, at GC or here... what's going on?

[McCoy]

^^^ here is a link for a good writeup for a B14/B15 chassis. It should be helpful in answering some of your questions.

http://www.notnser.com/ <-- click on the suspension link on the left column. I'd try to answer more, but I've never done a basic GC install on a S13/S14.

[koukimatt]

I ordered the S14 Koni Yellows and the Ground Control sleeve/spring kit with 400F/300R Eibach springs from Stillen. Total: about $950 including shipping.

Big fat note: Don't take the sleeves and perches out of the box and take off the perches just to play with them -- especially the rear sleeves! I did this, and I ended up putting the perch back onto one of the rear sleeves upside-down on accident. The rear sleeves will only support the car's weight when installed the right way -- with the words on the perches facing up.

The front shocks take a fair bit of work to install. Raise and secure the car with jackstands etc. Take off the front wheels and remove the original struts. First, you have to punch/drill a small (3mm or so) hole in the very center of the bottom of each original strut, to relieve some of the pressure and start draining the fluid. When you do this, make sure you're wearing "shop clothes" because shock oil will get sprayed everywhere. Then cut the spring perches off of the original strut housings right above the weld bead (be careful not to cut into the housing itself; you can tell when you've cut through the perch because you'll start seeing rusty metal), and cut all the way around the top of the housing tube, 20mm-25mm deep (the Koni instructions tell you how far down from the top to cut). When you cut all the way through the top of the housing, shock oil will start leaking out. Once you've cut all the way around, you can pull the old shock guts out of the housing. Then enlarge the hole in the bottom to 14mm or so with a step bit for the new bolts (included with the Koni shocks).

At this point you should install the large D-shaped washers, o-rings and the coilover sleeves and perches; it's much easier to put them on before inserting the new shocks. (If you don't install them now, you will either have to grind down the lip/cap on the new shocks so the sleeves can slide down past them, or you'll have to take out the shocks to put the sleeves on anyway.) The D-shaped washers should sit on top of the weld beads; you can file/grind the beads a little to help the washers sit level, although I didn't bother with this and it's probably not that important. Put a few o-rings onto the top of each housing tube above the D-washer, and slide the threaded sleeve down onto the housing tube over the o-rings. This was a little tricky for me; the o-rings kept getting pinched up and wouldn't slide under the sleeve properly, so the sleeve was sitting crooked on the housing tube. Note: the sleeve should go onto the housing with the beveled/lipped end of the housing facing the same direction as the open end of the housing. The inverted lip is for the new shock's cap to sit in.

Now you need to get the new shocks into the gutted housings. Shine a strong light into each housing, and use a ruler or dowel to see if there are any protrusions like rivets inside the housing. If there are any protrusions, you will either have to file/grind down the protrusions inside the tube, or grind off some of the paint and a few millimeters of metal from the bottom of the new front shocks so they will slide into the housings. Have a piece of re-bar or something handy to tap the shock back out of the housing if you realize you can't force it in. (I used an ordinary hammer and some scrap wood to protect the cap of the new shocks and drive them into the housings; if you give it a few strong taps and it doesn't move, something is sill in the way, and hitting it more will probably just screw up the new shock body). I used some WD-40 when inserting the shocks, but the fit was so tight I couldn't tell if that helped any or not.

Once the shocks are inserted into the housings all the way, use the washers and bolts to secure the shock at the base of the housing. Now you can put on the springs, tophats and the other stuff at the top of the shock shaft, lock the perches in place, and put the whole assembly back on the car. Lower the car slowly and keep your hands out of the wheel wells and away from the car in general, in case something slips and the car drops. Oh, one other thing for the fronts: you can tie-wrap the tophats to the springs to keep the tophats from flopping around and to keep them seated when you lower the car.

The rear shocks are relatively easy. Raise and secure the rear of the car with jackstands etc. Remove the rear wheels and take off the old shocks. Slide the sleeves onto the new shocks, and make sure you're putting the sleeves on the right way -- with the lettering on the perches facing up! This may seem obvious but it's very important... see the big fat note at the top of this post. Put on the new springs, tophats and washers; then take the hardware off of the top of the old shock shafts and install it onto the new shock shafts (see the Ground Control instructions for details). Unfortunately you can't really zip-tie the rear tophats to the springs; when you lower the car, watch the tophats to make sure the new washers slide down into them, otherwise the tophats won't be seated right.

Uh... that's about all I can remember at the moment. Parts of this operation were a real pain for me because I've never done it before, and I thought I had trashed one of the rear setups because I put the sleeve on upside down, and it came apart when I tried to lower that corner of the car. I don't have a bunch of fancy tools; just sockets, wrenches, basic stuff. If you have access to a machine shop, some of this might be a lot easier. It took me about 2 days of on-and-off work to take the old stuff off, put the new stuff together and install it on the car, with some help -- but as I said, I am (or was) a clueless noob, so maybe other people can do it faster and with less headache.

Since I just got finished I haven't driven the car much, just around the block once to make sure it wasn't going to fall apart. I'll try to remember to post some driving impressions in a few days.

I hope someone finds this useful and can avoid some of the difficulties and frustration I went through... feedback is appreciated!

[AceInHole]

Doh! I missed this thread for a few days since I was swamped at work. Sorry I wasn't able to provide any input when you needed it, but it sounds like you got everything together ok.

Definitely post some impressions up of how it drives! A few people have made the switch to Koni recently, and they all seem pretty ecstatic.

[ManoNegra]

^ yeah
Thanks for the write up.

[veilside180sx]

Take a picture of how you mounted the D ring for me please.

Originally Posted by koukimatt

At this point you should install the large D-shaped washers, o-rings and the coilover sleeves and perches; it's much easier to put them on before inserting the new shocks. (If you don't install them now, you will either have to grind down the lip/cap on the new shocks so the sleeves can slide down past them, or you'll have to take out the shocks to put the sleeves on anyway.) The D-shaped washers should sit on top of the weld beads; you can file/grind the beads a little to help the washers sit level, although I didn't bother with this and it's probably not that important. Put a few o-rings onto the top of each housing tube above the D-washer, and slide the threaded sleeve down onto the housing tube over the o-rings. This was a little tricky for me; the o-rings kept getting pinched up and wouldn't slide under the sleeve properly, so the sleeve was sitting crooked on the housing tube. Note: the sleeve should go onto the housing with the beveled/lipped end of the housing facing the same direction as the open end of the housing. The inverted lip is for the new shock's cap to sit in.
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[drift freaq]

The last GC setup I did. I had the D washer welded to the strut housing. In fact thats how most of the guys I now that have done them here in socal have done them. Just hit 3 spots around the underside with a tig.

[24Dee]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

The last GC setup I did. I had the D washer welded to the strut housing. In fact thats how most of the guys I now that have done them here in socal have done them. Just hit 3 spots around the underside with a tig.

This is the biggest reason i've heard that sleeved coils are 'shit'. What other reasons are there that people have always labeled GC and other sleeved coilover systems as such?