Blasphemodification

[Var]

OK...i JUST got off the phone with the junkyard. '00 f-body motorset 4500 bucks with 6-speed w/40k miles. Comes with everything. I dont need anything to connect to the harness except bare minimums, so i think i can get by without buying a Painless system. probably gonna go with a push button ignition, i already have manual switches for my e-fan and my fuel pump. All i need is for the ECU to run the fuel injection and ignition.

[MakotoS13]

Originally Posted by pruto

to answer your question westborough. ls1 with tremec 6 speed usually runs around $4000.

2500-3500 is what i figure i can get one for. you gotta know where to look.

also, wiring is about $1000 at least for a painless setup (standard on ls1 hybrids).

ahem... $594.99

Then you have to add in custom exhaust, worrying about clearing the crossmember, possibly custom oilpan

trailblazer oilpan works no majoe mods needed.

fitment of 6 speed, location of shifter,

no biggy

engine mounts,

no prob

whether you can keep power steering, heating issues.

power steering, yes, heating issues won't be a prob.. ever see a camaro's front bumper?

Realistically, you're looking at about 10k with engine minimum if you don't have a) connections or b) mad skillz.

7K by my count... then again, i do have mad skillz


p.s. im keeping PS and AC or the whole project goes in the can.

[Var]

Here are the items of concern for me

Making the clutch hydraulics work..i'm just not thinking. maybe it's easy

Making the power steering work with the LS1 pump, cause i hate the nissan unit. it sucks donkey balls.

Fitting headers cause they free up like 30 horsepower and the manifolds are probably cast iron and heavy.

fabricating a crossmember

making room in the trans tunnel for the t-56

mounting the motor as low and far back as possible while keeping the oil pan from being too close to the ground.(btw list prices for trailblazer oil pans. for the 6 cylinder $179. for the 8 cylinder $412)
if the pan is really big like a lot of trucks pans are, then it may be worthwhile to custom fab.

[theicecreamdan]

hardest part with clutch hydraulics would be bending a hardline to get your flex hose close to the new slave cylinder.

[Var]

i suck at visualizing things so i dunno wtf you're talking about until i see it.

[theicecreamdan]

hmm... actually now that I think about it, the stock clutch hardlines should be ok, you might need a longer flex hose though. but that wouldnt be a very hard thing to get.

[Var]

i could use steel braided line yes?


also about my radiator. You think the koyo i use for my sr will do the job? I wonder if the high and low ends are on the right side. if not..i'll figure something else out.

[theicecreamdan]

stainless line would work perfect, and that radiator would probably do good enough for cooling, and making radiator hoses fit shouldnt be too hard, there are flexible radiator hoses. If those were too far off just figure out what you need and look into Jegs or summit racing, or find a local radiator shop to make a custom one.

[MakotoS13]

new info:

after putting real life measurements to the test the width is fine, the height is really no problem and the length could be better but all in all its WAY more feasible than the ls1 idea.

302 with iron block and aluminum heads = 419 lbs minus accesories/manifolds.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...artKeyField=27

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...tKeyField=5955

i'm lookin to get a used 5.0 for like 500 or so and mate it to the T56 so i wont have to get two custom shafts made. i'll have a brand new 6speed AND can rock more power while i save up for the GT40 motor then just swap that hoe over when its built.

this plan is still much cheaper and easier than doing an ls1 swap (plus ford motors just plain sound better).

im goin to check out used motors this weekend.

[Jeff240sx]

Buying a GT40 motor to build it is like buying a 2jz and building it. Until you make stupid power, it's not necessary.
But, 302 blocks suck. They're made in Mexico, and when any decent ammount of power go through them, they crack down the cam valley. Google '302 cracked block' and look at any of the 30,100 hits. It starts happening around 400hp with FI, or ~450 NA. It's a bad motor.
Look at the 289 DOHC. They're more efficient, and handle power like a champ. And look better.
I'm a Chevy guy. An LS1 is the motor of choice here, and you should think about continuing down that road.
-Jeff

[MakotoS13]

by building i meant the process of externally bolting on all parts needed to make it run. i.e. building it without touching the internals, dumbface.

oh and:



TADA! eff a 4.6

[Var]

that 4.6 is such a big piece of ...........ENGINE. !!!

Jeff there are plenty of 500+ horsepower mustang 302's out there. My friends own many and i've never heard of that happening, but i'm sure you're not pulling that out of your ass.

the 4.6 is a 281, not a 289.

And the word effeciency should be used carefully. Power/liter doesnt mean squat to me.

It's all about power/dollar and power/weight. That's what efficiency in an engine swap is. Does anyone know how much the 4.6DOHC engine weighs?


edit: Jeff..i take that back about the cracked block thing. I was at a drift event yesterday and my friend's superchared mustang popped and started to leak oil all over the track. If his block is cracked, then you win. LOL. We didnt see anything broken but it was dark. No rods came out of the engine so..i'll update as soon as a find out

[Jeff240sx]

I don't think it's much wider than a full-on KA-T. But.. I can't find exact dimensions.
If you're thinking 302, look at the 351w. It's only a bit taller, and doesn't have a Mexican block.

Making an ultralight FBC isn't hard. But it's kinda expensive. Dart sells aluminum blocks. http://www.dartheads.com/sbclittlem.aspx
The alum. 302 racing block
'siamese version'( no water jackets between cyl)
weighs in at 95lbs! costs$3,695.
This can be punched to a 380 cu.in
w/a stroker crank- you are in the 400+hp league.........

The alum. 351 racing block weighs in at 110lbs $3,695.
this can opened to 427cu.in w/stroker crank -upwards
of 500+hp!.
all aluminum racing heads w/rollers and complete
w/valves weigh 27lbs @ at$625.@
alum flywheel available also add approx 29lbs.
the crank will weigh in approx 43lbs.
pistons/rods etc - ~40lbs.
alum intake 17lbs, 4bl carb, headers, cam, water pump, damper, distributor, etc under 75lbs.
You would definitely be under 400lbs and be 400+ hp

Or, I think a better option would be a Lexus V8.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...sPageName=WDVW


There it is in a 2nd gen rx-7 (random internet pic, so I can't verify anything on it).
But at 300hp @ 6000rpm and 310tq @ 4000rpm, it's a helluva motor.

Before shooting down that idea, spend a few minutes on http://lextreme.com/forums/index.php? and read about the Lexus v8s. Aluminum blocks, so once it's crammed down in the bay, you're solid.

Other crazy swaps, I helped Secret Services mock up motormounts and stuff a VQ35DE in a s13. Talk was happening that the VH 8-cyl line wouldn't take much more to fit in there...
-Jeff

[Jeff240sx]

Originally Posted by westboroughpimp

edit: Jeff..i take that back about the cracked block thing. I was at a drift event yesterday and my friend's superchared mustang popped and started to leak oil all over the track. If his block is cracked, then you win. LOL. We didnt see anything broken but it was dark. No rods came out of the engine so..i'll update as soon as a find out

Sorry about the 289.. that's old Fords. As I said, I'm a Chevy guy.
The cracks that I've seen, and my engine builder has shown me, all occur directly over the cam, in the intake mani valley. Gotta remove the IM to find it. But, I really hope his shit isn't cracked.
A 302 makes alot of power for a little money. I'll give it that. But, they break alot.. and for some reason catastrophically down that cam valley
-Jeff

[MakotoS13]

lucky me i want a maximum of 400horses in this car....

[codyace]

The cam problem to the best of my knowledge only occured during the 302's later years of production...any mid to early 80's ford pickup 302 blocks would be the choice block of a build (seasoned iron)....

HOWEVER

Jeff does bring a Valid point...if you're goin to go 302, just go 351...a 351 traditionally puts the same power as a mild cammed 302....so you'd already be startin with the better choice...plus all aluminum ford heads for small blocks (for non efi for that matter) have the holes drilled to 1/2"....whereas you'd hafta by special 'stepped' bolts from ARP to put those heads on a 302...

I'm a ford guy, so naturally this is a strong and cool idea....while many people prefer the LS1 engine, I think it's simply due to it being a common thought, AND that the stereotype that building a chevy is cheaper than a Ford is still around (power for power, you can get a 350 hp chevy small block for the same price as SmBlFord...

Remember however, anymore it's almost cheaper purchasing a crate motor over a built one..plus most companies offer a warrenty...

Lastly though, in my eyes a cool swap would be a nice old Cobra Hi-Po 289, and building that would be fun...high revving small block in a 240 would be sweet...plus they are better stock than any 302 thought about being :]

And if money is no object...Ford 390....Big block power in a tiny package

[MakotoS13]

huh? CRAMMING a motor in my car that i can't work on without pulling it would be conterproductive in my case. the 302 is small enough, can make the power i want with no effort, and isn't stankin heavy.

the idea is still on the drawing boards but neglecting the idea is... stupid.

[s86d]

Originally Posted by MakotoS13

huh? CRAMMING a motor in my car that i can't work on without pulling it would be conterproductive in my case. the 302 is small enough, can make the power i want with no effort, and isn't stankin heavy.

the idea is still on the drawing boards but neglecting the idea is... stupid.

Hey stupid. (It's Jeff). I'm not neglecting the idea. But if you're going wtih a 302, the 351 is a better motor, and the same size length x width, only marginally taller. The 302 is short anyway. Why get a 302 when there is a better motor that fits in the same space?
And.. I hardly call the Lexus DOHC v8 "crammed" inside the RX-7 pictured above. Crammed in my book is needing to bang out or cut and relocate stuff to make the engine fit. However, a motor that's tuned for a smooth ride making the power (300hp/310tq) it makes stock is something worth considering. And.. they're about $500. Or, you can be single minded and go with the 302, which given the choices (Lexus v8 or 351w), is an inferior motor. At LEAST go wtih the 351. Even a Ford guy is telling you that.
-Jeff

[420sx]

lexus swap is being done into an s13 a few months back and i think its a very good option to consider

[codyace]

Crammed is a Big Block in a 69 boss mustang...i bet you never wanna change sparkplugs ever again!

[MakotoS13]

Originally Posted by s86d

Hey stupid. (It's Jeff). I'm not neglecting the idea. But if you're going wtih a 302, the 351 is a better motor, and the same size length x width, only marginally taller. The 302 is short anyway. Why get a 302 when there is a better motor that fits in the same space?
And.. I hardly call the Lexus DOHC v8 "crammed" inside the RX-7 pictured above. Crammed in my book is needing to bang out or cut and relocate stuff to make the engine fit. However, a motor that's tuned for a smooth ride making the power (300hp/310tq) it makes stock is something worth considering. And.. they're about $500. Or, you can be single minded and go with the 302, which given the choices (Lexus v8 or 351w), is an inferior motor. At LEAST go wtih the 351. Even a Ford guy is telling you that.
-Jeff

tell ya what, i'll get a 351 weith a velocity stack and a blower protruding from my hood, put racing stripes, and side pipes on it.

351W: Disadvantages

? Size: The 351W is 2.250 inches wider than a 302, necessitating a number of changes (at additional cost) to make the swap possible. Hood clearance can become an issue, and there will be less room to service the plugs.

? Heavy Weight: As discussed in the Keep the Muscle, Lose the Fat sidebar, the 351W is beefier and is typically more than 100 pounds heavier than a 302-based engine.

two things that are deal killers.

300-400 fuel injected crank horsepower and similar torque...

[Jeff240sx]

Additional cost? Compared to what? Isn't everything being fabbed up custom?

[zenkiDori]

here is the car:


but holy hell that's one pretty engine!

I had though about putting a V8 in the rear of an S13 hatch and did some photochoppin' one day, man i think it would look sweet seeing a V8 with stacks under the glass hatch, very supercar style. i'll try and find the pic i made.

this project sounds sweet. if you guys can pull it off on a decent budget i may be next in line for my S14! hot stuff!

[infamous55]

"And if money is no object...Ford 390....Big block power in a tiny package"

Have you ever seen a 390? It is not a small engine, and the stock intake alone weighs about 90lbs. The 390 has a lot of potential, but not for a 240, its too big and heavy to reap the benefits of all that torque.

"Crammed is a Big Block in a 69 boss mustang...i bet you never wanna change sparkplugs ever again!"

I know what its like to change the plugs on a big block mustang, not a fun experience, but its fun to watch someone else do it. But not a boss though, any 67-70 mustang with a big block is a pain to change plugs on, especially if you have power brakes and headers. boss mustangs in 69-70 either had small blocks(302, plenty of room to work with) or The Boss 429, which is really easy to change plugs on, seeing how its a hemi...

This is a pic of a stock 428 Cobra Jet (same block as a 390) in a 69 mustang. Look closely for the spark plugs.



sucks for him, he has to work around the ac too...

[sciamop]

Matako (sic), you are sooooo full of shit. Good luck with your pipe dream fabrication project. Do us and yourself a favor and sell the Nissan... or just (finally) buy an LS1 and STFU.

When I move on from the S13, I've been thinking about building a (horrors!) domestic: 1991-1993 Mustang GT w/ all the goodies from a wrecked late-model SVT Mustang Cobra: 6-speed, IRS, 390+hp Super Charged 32V V8, gigantic brakes, etc... just gotta work out the Tempo-like interior and the 300lb hatchback.

No Hard Feelings,
Todd
93 SR20'd Coupe
91 SE-R (daily driver)
92 ///M330is (under construction)
http://www.whistlehog.com/blog

[MakotoS13]

Originally Posted by sciamop

Matako (sic), you are sooooo full of shit. Good luck with your pipe dream fabrication project. Do us and yourself a favor and sell the Nissan... or just (finally) buy an LS1 and STFU.

ya know, i could belittle you by using your lack of reading comprehension skills to show how your tiny mind truly must struggle with the most basic of concepts but i won't. i just gotta wonder why some guy off the street wants to talk to me like i'm some faggot ricer when he can't even figure out the basic premise of the "signiture" function on this little forum thing. instead he types out or copies his car list and site after every post, to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he needs to be recognized as something higher than the current position he holds in life.

that position being a completely inept and tasteless baswagoneering newb.

just because you're happy with a less than optimal turboed piece of crap doesn't mean the rest of us should practice the same complacency with our cars.

somebody has to do the thinking around here.

[sLip techniques]

only motor type that belongs in a 240 is a 4 cyl...........PLAIN AND SIMPLE

[MakotoS13]

well some of us don't choose ricer loyalty over being a performance nut.

[sLip techniques]

oh.....then why did you buy a 240.......?

[Var]

Originally Posted by sLip techniques

only motor type that belongs in a 240 is a 4 cyl...........PLAIN AND SIMPLE

that almost tops the dumbest thing ever said around here. THE dumbest was humans weren't built to breastfeed, and the second dumbest was there's no difference between vlsd and clutch type lsd.