This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread. - Page 67 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

GripTerror · 11-17-2010, 02:46 PM

I'm running ground control plates up front, has both caster and camber adjustment.

If I'm not mistaken Vorschlag does as well.

PoorMans180SX · 11-17-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GripTerror

I'm running ground control plates up front, has both caster and camber adjustment.

If I'm not mistaken Vorschlag does as well.

Yup, but Vorschlag doesn't sell them separate anymore.

Stance is supposed to be coming out with them soon.

Slidin' Sam · 11-17-2010, 05:35 PM

What kinds of things has everybody done/tried to get more rear traction and what side effects, if any, have there been? Example: I hear of some people disconnecting the rear sway bar. Anybody have input on this? (I know its kinda off topic, but I think some of the answers will apply to the topic of this thread).

PoorMans180SX · 11-17-2010, 06:25 PM

Disconnect your FRONT swaybar. Feels super awesome in transitions, and makes my car just a touch focused on oversteer. Haven't tried removing the rear yet (as well), but I plan on doing it soon.

Most guys that have tried disconnected rear only don't like it. Seems like it would make the car understeer and wallow more to me.

Def · 11-17-2010, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Disconnect your FRONT swaybar. Feels super awesome in transitions, and makes my car just a touch focused on oversteer. Haven't tried removing the rear yet (as well), but I plan on doing it soon.

Most guys that have tried disconnected rear only don't like it. Seems like it would make the car understeer and wallow more to me.

Our cars NEED swaybars front AND rear. At least if you're pulling lateral G's with the car. If you're drifting or something like that, you can probably do funky car setup stuff to get it to go sideways better.

Def · 11-17-2010, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526

Good stuff man.

Does anyone know of a manufacturer of Upper Coilover mounts with both Camber AND Caster Adjustment aside from HKS? The HKS units are about $450 which is a bit steep, but not un-affordable but I believe they're only compatible with their Coilovers which are a bit on the expensive side as well. I'd prefer not to pay upwards of 2k for Coils if I can help it.

I've heard that PBM is designing a Pro/Competition Coilover which is supposed to have them, but I haven't seen anything quantitative confirming or denying this other than a few posts on their forum....

T3 plates allow caster adjustment. T3 = Techno Toy Tuning

drift freaq · 11-17-2010, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526

Good stuff man.

Does anyone know of a manufacturer of Upper Coilover mounts with both Camber AND Caster Adjustment aside from HKS? The HKS units are about $450 which is a bit steep, but not un-affordable but I believe they're only compatible with their Coilovers which are a bit on the expensive side as well. I'd prefer not to pay upwards of 2k for Coils if I can help it.

I've heard that PBM is designing a Pro/Competition Coilover which is supposed to have them, but I haven't seen anything quantitative confirming or denying this other than a few posts on their forum....

Noltec sells camber caster plate uppers. You can buy Noltec stuff through PSI in Norcal.

PoorMans180SX · 11-17-2010, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Def

Our cars NEED swaybars front AND rear. At least if you're pulling lateral G's with the car. If you're drifting or something like that, you can probably do funky car setup stuff to get it to go sideways better.

Why do you say this? I am talking about normal cornering. Totally erased my understeer and gave me just a touch of at-the-limit oversteer. Feels great.

Plus, I would rather control body movement with spring rate and keep the wheels as independent as possible.

Def · 11-17-2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Why do you say this? I am talking about normal cornering. Totally erased my understeer and gave me just a touch of at-the-limit oversteer. Feels great.

Plus, I would rather control body movement with spring rate and keep the wheels as independent as possible.

Because my car was horribly slow without swaybars and 500/380 lb/in spring rates - HORRIBLY slow. It would flop over in a corner, lose camber, and just go slow. Even with stiffer than stock swaybars the roll stiffness is a little low. You'd need something like 800+ lb/in spring rates or higher to even begin to get enough lateral roll stiffness.

This is actual lap times talking. How the car feels on the street at 3/10ths is deceptive.

You just can't possibly get enough roll stiffness with just springs. The car would just be skittering over bumps at the appropriate roll stiffness without swaybars.

Besides, the load distribution on the tires is the same when doing the roll stiffness with springs vs. springs and bars.

PoorMans180SX · 11-17-2010, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Def

This is actual lap times talking. How the car feels on the street at 3/10ths is deceptive.

.

This is very true. I have never run my car around a roadcourse normally. Looks like I'm going to have to get a Hicas anti-roll bar.

Def · 11-17-2010, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

This is very true. I have never run my car around a roadcourse normally. Looks like I'm going to have to get a Hicas anti-roll bar.

If you want to save some weight, the J30 bar is 19mm and hollow. Bolts right in. Feels pretty balanced with a stock S chass front bar.

singlecamslam · 11-17-2010, 11:22 PM

Did not know that j30 bars fit, good to know, they're everywhere.

singlecamslam · 11-17-2010, 11:30 PM

My s14 has no front or rear sway bars, feels horrible. Car flops around when cornering, drifting feels like the car is rolling way too much, I'm going to try putting them on. But i will say this, it felt a little faster when drifting, but i dont like the body roll, i run megan streets so i think i need the bars.

PoorMans180SX · 11-18-2010, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Def

If you want to save some weight, the J30 bar is 19mm and hollow. Bolts right in. Feels pretty balanced with a stock S chass front bar.

Haha, I looked up your thread about hollow sway bars. Makes me want to slap myself for posting what I did

Looks like i'm going to have to find an S14 front bar and J30 rear; should be easy...

thefro526 · 11-18-2010, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GripTerror

I'm running ground control plates up front, has both caster and camber adjustment.

If I'm not mistaken Vorschlag does as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Yup, but Vorschlag doesn't sell them separate anymore.

Stance is supposed to be coming out with them soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Def

T3 plates allow caster adjustment. T3 = Techno Toy Tuning

Quote:

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Noltec sells camber caster plate uppers. You can buy Noltec stuff through PSI in Norcal.

Thanks Guys. <3

driftpolice · 11-18-2010, 07:59 AM

will that j30 rear sway work on s14?

Def · 11-18-2010, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftpolice

will that j30 rear sway work on s14?

It should, I have an S14 rear subframe now.

It has exhaust "humps" to clear a dual exhaust, but it lined up perfectly with my 3" exhaust going through the stock location with miles of clearance.

codyace · 11-18-2010, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Yup, but Vorschlag doesn't sell them separate anymore.

Stance is supposed to be coming out with them soon.

Valley Motorwerks - VMWERKS - BMW / Mini Service, Repair, and Parts Sells them seperatly. I delt with a guy named Alex to aquire them

My reciept shows 69 shipped, so not bad either.

Just remember to tell them it's for a koni setup, 2.5 vorshlag mount.

(THis was also a year ago, so it may not be relevant now)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Def

Because my car was horribly slow without swaybars and 500/380 lb/in spring rates - HORRIBLY slow. It would flop over in a corner, lose camber, and just go slow. Even with stiffer than stock swaybars the roll stiffness is a little low. You'd need something like 800+ lb/in spring rates or higher to even begin to get enough lateral roll stiffness.

I totally agree. I'm on 550/450 springs, and even still love the swaybars on track. TO me it keeps it from being tailhappy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Def

This is actual lap times talking. How the car feels on the street at 3/10ths is deceptive.

Even on street I prefer them...especially for any sort of spirited back roads going. Combined with the corrected bumpsteer and roll center, the car seems like it has infinite turn it...it just grips and goes!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Def

You just can't possibly get enough roll stiffness with just springs. The car would just be skittering over bumps at the appropriate roll stiffness without swaybars.

FWD cars are often guilty of this being unable to fit super huge bars (b chassis good example).

GripTerror · 11-18-2010, 10:42 AM

how does the j30 hollow bar compare to s13 hicas solid bar? Is it stiffer than the s13 21mm hicas solid bar? Are there poly bushings available for the j30 bar? How about endlinks would progress rear heim endlinks work?

SoSideways · 11-18-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GripTerror

how does the j30 hollow bar compare to s13 hicas solid bar? Is it stiffer than the s13 21mm hicas solid bar? Are there poly bushings available for the j30 bar? How about endlinks would progress rear heim endlinks work?

The math doesn't check out.

S13 HICAS bar will be stiffer, but it's solid from what everyone says, and it's been way too long since I've had the bar off of my car for me to feel and tell you how heavy or not heavy it really is.

onehundredoctane · 11-18-2010, 10:59 AM

off topic quesiton, but I saw sway bars mentioned above.

I'm running a side exit exhaust, so in my application there is no need for the "hump" in the rear sway bar, I was thinking of making another rear sway bar without the hump (since I have the ability, and tools to make one), does anyone else think that this would help? Or is this just wishful thinking on my part??? It would seem like this would help overall handling in the rear and firm things up a bit.

GripTerror · 11-18-2010, 11:02 AM

^Just do it.

If the j30 is less stiff ill stick to my stock 21mm hicas one then..

I feel tempted to try a tanabe rear as its hollow and super light.

SoSideways · 11-18-2010, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fakeshemp44

off topic quesiton, but I saw sway bars mentioned above.

I'm running a side exit exhaust, so in my application there is no need for the "hump" in the rear sway bar, I was thinking of making another rear sway bar without the hump (since I have the ability, and tools to make one), does anyone else think that this would help? Or is this just wishful thinking on my part??? It would seem like this would help overall handling in the rear and firm things up a bit.

Make it an adjustable flat blade style sway bar that can be adjusted on the fly, in cabin.

Do it.

Don't ask, just do it.

DO IT.

onehundredoctane · 11-18-2010, 12:11 PM

Adjustable from in cabin eh???? Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

PerilousActs · 11-18-2010, 12:27 PM

I would love to see one of those adjustable swaybar setups on an s-chassis. <3

fakeshemp44: can you pm me a pic of your side exit? I'm trying to find a way to do it and maintain ground clearance.

I have a full set of HICAS bars I can weigh. Would you all be interested in me doing this?

PoorMans180SX · 11-18-2010, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fakeshemp44

Adjustable from in cabin eh???? Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

They're called blade-type swaybars, and Bill from Dentsport has them on his S13. As do a lot of professional racing cars if the series allows. Look it up.

godrifttoday · 11-18-2010, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fakeshemp44

Adjustable from in cabin eh???? Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

.......

.....

PerilousActs · 11-18-2010, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

They're called blade-type swaybars, and Bill from Dentsport has them on his S13. As do a lot of professional racing cars if the series allows. Look it up.

Any pics of that floating around? I can't find any on his site and all of the pics in his build thread are dead.

PoorMans180SX · 11-18-2010, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefro526

I've heard that PBM is designing a Pro/Competition Coilover which is supposed to have them, but I haven't seen anything quantitative confirming or denying this other than a few posts on their forum....

They're supposed to be out around new year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerilousActs

Any pics of that floating around? I can't find any on his site and all of the pics in his build thread are dead.

I might. Have to check when I get home.

PoorMans180SX · 11-18-2010, 03:50 PM

It's the big yellow bar.
Sorry, I don't have shots of the ends where they connect to the LCAs.

11-17-2010, 05:35 PM	#1983
Slidin' Sam Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Japan Posts: 729 Trader Rating: (9) Feedback Score: 9 reviews	What kinds of things has everybody done/tried to get more rear traction and what side effects, if any, have there been? Example: I hear of some people disconnecting the rear sway bar. Anybody have input on this? (I know its kinda off topic, but I think some of the answers will apply to the topic of this thread). __________________

11-17-2010, 06:25 PM	#1984
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 36 Posts: 5,574 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Disconnect your FRONT swaybar. Feels super awesome in transitions, and makes my car just a touch focused on oversteer. Haven't tried removing the rear yet (as well), but I plan on doing it soon. Most guys that have tried disconnected rear only don't like it. Seems like it would make the car understeer and wallow more to me. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

11-17-2010, 11:22 PM	#1992
singlecamslam Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norcal Posts: 2,534 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	Did not know that j30 bars fit, good to know, they're everywhere. __________________ Nothing says racecar like a stock car with no interior.

11-17-2010, 11:30 PM	#1993
singlecamslam Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norcal Posts: 2,534 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	My s14 has no front or rear sway bars, feels horrible. Car flops around when cornering, drifting feels like the car is rolling way too much, I'm going to try putting them on. But i will say this, it felt a little faster when drifting, but i dont like the body roll, i run megan streets so i think i need the bars. __________________ Nothing says racecar like a stock car with no interior.

11-18-2010, 03:50 PM	#2010
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 36 Posts: 5,574 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	It's the big yellow bar. Sorry, I don't have shots of the ends where they connect to the LCAs. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

11-17-2010, 02:46 PM	#1981
GripTerror Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Canada Age: 39 Posts: 685 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I'm running ground control plates up front, has both caster and camber adjustment. If I'm not mistaken Vorschlag does as well.

11-18-2010, 07:59 AM	#1996
driftpolice BANNED Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: martinsburg wv Posts: 372 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	will that j30 rear sway work on s14?

11-18-2010, 10:42 AM	#1999
GripTerror Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Canada Age: 39 Posts: 685 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	how does the j30 hollow bar compare to s13 hicas solid bar? Is it stiffer than the s13 21mm hicas solid bar? Are there poly bushings available for the j30 bar? How about endlinks would progress rear heim endlinks work?

11-18-2010, 10:59 AM	#2001
onehundredoctane Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Greensborough, NC Posts: 2,783 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	off topic quesiton, but I saw sway bars mentioned above. I'm running a side exit exhaust, so in my application there is no need for the "hump" in the rear sway bar, I was thinking of making another rear sway bar without the hump (since I have the ability, and tools to make one), does anyone else think that this would help? Or is this just wishful thinking on my part??? It would seem like this would help overall handling in the rear and firm things up a bit.

11-18-2010, 11:02 AM	#2002
GripTerror Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Canada Age: 39 Posts: 685 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	^Just do it. If the j30 is less stiff ill stick to my stock 21mm hicas one then.. I feel tempted to try a tanabe rear as its hollow and super light.

11-18-2010, 12:11 PM	#2004
onehundredoctane Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Greensborough, NC Posts: 2,783 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Adjustable from in cabin eh???? Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

11-18-2010, 12:27 PM	#2005
PerilousActs Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Walton, Kentucky Age: 33 Posts: 545 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	I would love to see one of those adjustable swaybar setups on an s-chassis. <3 fakeshemp44: can you pm me a pic of your side exit? I'm trying to find a way to do it and maintain ground clearance. I have a full set of HICAS bars I can weigh. Would you all be interested in me doing this?