Journey to hit 430+whp with a T28...Lets find out.

[McCoy]

I never ran it, changed to a T3/T04E 50 trim with a JGS log manifold and haven't looked back.

[e1_griego]

Originally Posted by S13 curtis

Thats def a nice set up you had, what did you put down?

I think you missed where I said that setup (purchased from McCoy) is on my car now

It makes 340/300 @ 14psi (dynojet obviously haha).

[steve shadows]

Honestly I have seen cars spool up faster and make better HP and Torque curves with a cheapo 50 TRIM T04E compressor and a smaller turbine than any of the 2871R setups.

If you want to have a great setup for spool up use a T04E 50 TRIM Garrett wheel with a .60 AR T04B ported compressor housing, then use a .48 turbine housing T3 with Stage 3 turbine wheel.

At 22 PSI you should be right around 415 WHP range, even on a real dyno, like Dyno Dynamics, which is about 25% better output than most 2871R setups can reach at 18-20 PSI range.

If your goal is to have a more efficient turbo than stock, with a bit more output and bolt on then I think the 2871R is a great option. But it seems like from the very beginning people have been led to believe that you just bolt on a 2871R variant and you automatically get 400 flywheel or even wheel HP. In my expereince it's a dream. Only on dyno jets, with correction runnin in the background, a lucky run or very controlled conditions. And then it's hard for it to even be replicated. On brake eddy dynos the 2871R variants only make it up to around 360 whp MAX. Sometimes 375. Which is amazing for such a small turbo.

If you want a bolt on turbo with true high output capability I suggest a GT3071R with T28 flanged housing. Or even better the 3076R with T28 flange - both of these we have tuned up to the 400-430 whp range, even on pump gas a few times.

Even on pump gas, 50 TRIM on a 100% stock redtop we have done 375 WHP pulls on the DD, (425 WHP on a DJ) on 91 octane with only HKS cams and Haltech EMS and larger injectors.

True 430 WHP I would say test the car on a dyno dynamics. Otherwise you are just giving me a number that represents the speed at which your cars engine can turn a given fixed weight up to a given speed.

[tougefactory]

Our S14 with S14 SR20DET with 2871r put down 393whp at 18psi on pump gas. This was done on 75deg day, on Dyno Dynamics.
We haven't had time to tune on race gas yet, but should be able hit close to 430whp.

So it is possible

[whereda40at]

should have gone with a gt2876r. i made 380hp on a mustang dyno on 18psi and on pump gas. dont have a copy of my dyno sheet but m-a can vouch for it. just last week i made a 11.20 pass at 121 mph. that really is a great turbo for staying t-2 bottom mount and i am still internally wastegated.

[S13 curtis]

I dont think i can get it on a DD because i dont think we have any close by, but there are local Mustang Dyno shops, My evo 8 put down 551whp on 93 pump gas+meth on a mustang dyno thats not to far from me.

[S13 curtis]

Well i finally got the car back from Gato's shop got the Cutout welded on and the *90 bend for the Tial V44, i will get a pic with the wastegate on ASAP and post it but this is what was done so far.










Enjoy until i get pics with it mounted.

[idahotuner]

yeah dude. i still am waiting for your dyno results with this. and more pics!!!

[S13 curtis]

Originally Posted by idahotuner

yeah dude. i still am waiting for your dyno results with this. and more pics!!!

more pics will be up soon i just need to get another inlet clamp for the wastegate and 90* bend and then just fluids and fuel and its dyno time

[OneSicSilvia]

Thats a pretty looking battery tray lol. Car looks good man.

[idahotuner]

have you seen the new tomei arms turbo.http://zilvia.net/f/advertiser-annou...60-turbos.html

[S13 curtis]

Originally Posted by idahotuner

have you seen the new tomei arms turbo.http://zilvia.net/f/advertiser-annou...60-turbos.html

Yea they are pretty sick, it kinda reminds me of a 20g. I hope somebody gets one to try it out and its rebuildable.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by steve shadows

Honestly I have seen cars spool up faster and make better HP and Torque curves with a cheapo 50 TRIM T04E compressor and a smaller turbine than any of the 2871R setups.

If you want to have a great setup for spool up use a T04E 50 TRIM Garrett wheel with a .60 AR T04B ported compressor housing, then use a .48 turbine housing T3 with Stage 3 turbine wheel.

There is no doubt about this setup - I ran this exact turbo on my Altima almost 7/8 years ago now. I initially went with a really small .48 housing, but the 2.4 liked the the .63. I'm certain with the .48 and the smaller 2.0 it would be much better as steve says.

Another thing for new guys contemplating this, is to consider though is overall cost. Lets consider the cams and inlet manifold already part of the equation, and just 'exhaust' related parts.

To make 400 whp with a 2871r .64:

1000 Turbo
200 Greddy J Pipe
125 downpipe
500 bucks for Extrude Hone
175 for Swain Coat

2000ish Dollars

To make the same power, perhaps another 20 whp with a T3T4

550 Turbo
800-900 dollar manifold
350 for Tial 44mm
50 to 100 for a v band tube tube
250-500 for a custom downpipe w/vband

2000ish small end/2400ish big end.
(Sure prices are high, as I use new part prices...I never consider used stuff when 'pricing' anything, as they to often are not stable and or never around when you need them...I always just use prices new, and then any money saved is a 'perk' of going used.)

Both will work, and probably cost the same in the end. One can be installed in a weekend, one requires fab work to make it fit. In the end though, the Top Mount setup could easily make more power, but at the expense of a few more hundred dollars.

Originally Posted by steve shadows

At 22 PSI you should be right around 415 WHP range, even on a real dyno, like Dyno Dynamics, which is about 25% better output than most 2871R setups can reach at 18-20 PSI range.

So how do real dyno numbers relate to the physics involved with trap speeds and weight to relative torque of a car

The best dyno is trap speed, not what each computer calculates hehe (luvya!)

Originally Posted by steve shadows

If your goal is to have a more efficient turbo than stock, with a bit more output and bolt on then I think the 2871R is a great option. But it seems like from the very beginning people have been led to believe that you just bolt on a 2871R variant and you automatically get 400 flywheel or even wheel HP. In my expereince it's a dream. Only on dyno jets, with correction runnin in the background, a lucky run or very controlled conditions. And then it's hard for it to even be replicated. On brake eddy dynos the 2871R variants only make it up to around 360 whp MAX. Sometimes 375. Which is amazing for such a small turbo.

While I don't agree with Steve in the 'lucky' aspect, as it's easy to duplicate my setup to create a 120/122 trap speed car. Problem is, everyone has a little variation, or wants to skimp here/there, or use different parts alltogether (if I had a dollar for every person that asked me how to copy my exact setup, but using BC or other junk cams, or this type o fmanifold, or that type of whatever, I'd be a millionaire...I always tell them 'if you want to make the power, copy my setup exact)

Don't get me wrong, there was a lot of money/time and genuine resarch from my FWD days (more hands on that most) to get to this point, but It's there, and I've been there now for quite some time. Looking back was it worth the extra stuff to get there? Well, maybe, but today there are certainly easier options to make a 120 car than when I built mine (this side of a big lazy turbo). Bottom line is a v8 would be the easiest (and probably equal cost) and be much more reliablew for turnkey abuse.

Originally Posted by steve shadows

If you want a bolt on turbo with true high output capability I suggest a GT3071R with T28 flanged housing. Or even better the 3076R with T28 flange - both of these we have tuned up to the 400-430 whp range, even on pump gas a few times.

While true, it's got much less response than the 2871r, and is even more mismatched of a setup than the 2871r. Reason why you see quite a few t2 flanged 30r's puke.

Originally Posted by steve shadows

True 430 WHP I would say test the car on a dyno dynamics. Otherwise you are just giving me a number that represents the speed at which your cars engine can turn a given fixed weight up to a given speed.

Why not get trap speeds to *really* know? Lets be serious, the DD or Mustang dynos are better for 'tuning' but in the grand scheme, but all dynos of every type are easily manipulated. For guys that don't know the difference, the goal is to remain constant with dyno type used, and or the exact same dyno. If you're doing HP pulls and want to see if parts made and incrase, you should always try to duplicate the 'conditions' as best as possible and use the same dyno. We see to many people dyno on a MD at Shop A, and then come to a DynoJet at our place, and have different numbers (some high some low) and we never 'really' see if the mods made a measurable/worthwhile difference.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by idahotuner

have you seen the new tomei arms turbo.http://zilvia.net/f/advertiser-annou...60-turbos.html

Can't say it's anything spectacular, nor it it anything I'd beleive either.


1. Not a real dyno graph
2. Not stated if WHP or Crankpower (probably crank, due to graph)
3. It's a 2.2 liter, so even if numbers were 'real' it's false to assume it even remotely applies to a 2.0
4. It's internal gate (yuck)

Is the price good? Yea I guess...however if you want to really make a comparison, the regular 2871 setup's we see on here make equal if not better power than the ARMS kit.

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by codyace

There is no doubt about this setup - I ran this exact turbo on my Altima almost 7/8 years ago now. I initially went with a really small .48 housing, but the 2.4 liked the the .63. I'm certain with the .48 and the smaller 2.0 it would be much better as steve says.

Another thing for new guys contemplating this, is to consider though is overall cost. Lets consider the cams and inlet manifold already part of the equation, and just 'exhaust' related parts.

To make 400 whp with a 2871r .64:

1000 Turbo
200 Greddy J Pipe
125 downpipe
500 bucks for Extrude Hone
175 for Swain Coat

2000ish Dollars

To make the same power, perhaps another 20 whp with a T3T4

550 Turbo
800-900 dollar manifold
350 for Tial 44mm
50 to 100 for a v band tube tube
250-500 for a custom downpipe w/vband

2000ish small end/2400ish big end.
(Sure prices are high, as I use new part prices...I never consider used stuff when 'pricing' anything, as they to often are not stable and or never around when you need them...I always just use prices new, and then any money saved is a 'perk' of going used.)

Both will work, and probably cost the same in the end. One can be installed in a weekend, one requires fab work to make it fit. In the end though, the Top Mount setup could easily make more power, but at the expense of a few more hundred dollars.




So how do real dyno numbers relate to the physics involved with trap speeds and weight to relative torque of a car

The best dyno is trap speed, not what each computer calculates hehe (luvya!)




While I don't agree with Steve in the 'lucky' aspect, as it's easy to duplicate my setup to create a 120/122 trap speed car. Problem is, everyone has a little variation, or wants to skimp here/there, or use different parts alltogether (if I had a dollar for every person that asked me how to copy my exact setup, but using BC or other junk cams, or this type o fmanifold, or that type of whatever, I'd be a millionaire...I always tell them 'if you want to make the power, copy my setup exact)

Don't get me wrong, there was a lot of money/time and genuine resarch from my FWD days (more hands on that most) to get to this point, but It's there, and I've been there now for quite some time. Looking back was it worth the extra stuff to get there? Well, maybe, but today there are certainly easier options to make a 120 car than when I built mine (this side of a big lazy turbo). Bottom line is a v8 would be the easiest (and probably equal cost) and be much more reliablew for turnkey abuse.




While true, it's got much less response than the 2871r, and is even more mismatched of a setup than the 2871r. Reason why you see quite a few t2 flanged 30r's puke.



Why not get trap speeds to *really* know? Lets be serious, the DD or Mustang dynos are better for 'tuning' but in the grand scheme, but all dynos of every type are easily manipulated. For guys that don't know the difference, the goal is to remain constant with dyno type used, and or the exact same dyno. If you're doing HP pulls and want to see if parts made and incrase, you should always try to duplicate the 'conditions' as best as possible and use the same dyno. We see to many people dyno on a MD at Shop A, and then come to a DynoJet at our place, and have different numbers (some high some low) and we never 'really' see if the mods made a measurable/worthwhile difference.

I'm just not sure how trapping 120 or so in a 2700-2800 pound car is "getting lucky"....

[idahotuner]

Originally Posted by codyace

Can't say it's anything spectacular, nor it it anything I'd beleive either.


1. Not a real dyno graph
2. Not stated if WHP or Crankpower (probably crank, due to graph)
3. It's a 2.2 liter, so even if numbers were 'real' it's false to assume it even remotely applies to a 2.0
4. It's internal gate (yuck)

Is the price good? Yea I guess...however if you want to really make a comparison, the regular 2871 setup's we see on here make equal if not better power than the ARMS kit.

i would compare it with a gt2871r .86. seems like the better route to go for me. since i am a 2.2liter and want to stay bottom mount. those arms turbos are getting bought up quick. so we should see some numbers soon.

i am talking to a guy from germany, his handel on here and nico is thomas i guess. he has a youtube vids of his 2.2liter sr with and hks gt3037 lay down some serious power.YouTube - ‪Dyno SR22DET S13 June 2009.wmv‬‎

i will ask about that being a crank or wheel dyno.

here is the tomei pamphlet for these turbos http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/inf/pdf/166-AE-A4.pdf

[idahotuner]

those are crank numbers on an engine dyno the factory pamphlet say so. well thats disappointing

[codyace]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

I'm just not sure how trapping 120 or so in a 2700-2800 pound car is "getting lucky"....

It's just a shame I won't go back to get my ET any lower. Should be capable of a low 11, but a mid 11 isn't bad for a road race car

Originally Posted by idahotuner

i would compare it with a gt2871r .86. seems like the better route to go for me. since i am a 2.2liter and want to stay bottom mount. those arms turbos are getting bought up quick. so we should see some numbers soon.

Whats the reason for bottom mount? All signs point to a smaller frame topmount IMO. More energy, an you can take advantage of the extra cubes to spool that larger turbine at the same rate (while taking advantage of the larger compressor to make more HP)

To me, that ARM's turbo is a waste. 460 crank power is how much you made before with a 2.0 and a smaller turbo...why would you want to make the same? I'd run for a smaller Borg Warner or a mid range 30r if I were you...much better options for the 2.2 than a bottom mount t2 flanged snail.

[Jo4nxj220]

I wanna see this thing in action! lol

[idahotuner]

Originally Posted by codyace

Whats the reason for bottom mount? All signs point to a smaller frame topmount IMO. More energy, an you can take advantage of the extra cubes to spool that larger turbine at the same rate (while taking advantage of the larger compressor to make more HP)

To me, that ARM's turbo is a waste. 460 crank power is how much you made before with a 2.0 and a smaller turbo...why would you want to make the same? I'd run for a smaller Borg Warner or a mid range 30r if I were you...much better options for the 2.2 than a bottom mount t2 flanged snail.

yeah.for now i have to run a t25 cause that is all i can afford. lol

[idahotuner]

well i got a good deal on a gt2871r .86 so we will see what happens with it. might not be a dyno tell next spring or later this fall.

[S13 curtis]

Haha wastegate is HUGE lol.. its jus about done now all i need to do is add E-85 and fluid flush new oil, coolant, gear oil etc.. I should pull down the T2 record with this, im going to be running 26-28 psi and belive me this turbo still makes power after 22psi. This should be on the dyno soon i have to make an appointment

[Om1kron]

oh nice, is that the mvs wastegate or one of the older larger models.

[S13 curtis]

Originally Posted by Om1kron

oh nice, is that the mvs wastegate or one of the older larger models.

Thanks,Its the origional Tial V44 not the MV-R.

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by S13 curtis

I should pull down the T2 record with this

Remind me again what you are doing that makes you so sure about this....not doubting that you can do it, just remind me what is special about your setup


Oh and also, are you talking about "record" as in peak horsepower? Peak torque? Best powerband?


I think with that manifold you may see a high peak hp number, but your area under the curve will probably be poorer than a bunch of other setups out there

[S13 curtis]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

Remind me again what you are doing that makes you so sure about this....not doubting that you can do it, just remind me what is special about your setup


Oh and also, are you talking about "record" as in peak horsepower? Peak torque? Best powerband?


I think with that manifold you may see a high peak hp number, but your area under the curve will probably be poorer than a bunch of other setups out there

Peak of course, i drag more than drift, but the power band should be good E-85 also help out alot as far as spool and power. I made it for more power up top reason why i went with tomei 270 procams.

Special things about my set up/Different:
-T04E 3071R Compressor
-.72 Turbine housing
-Tial V44
-E85
-3"Cutout
-Standalone EMS
-Tomei 270 duration cams i think one other person used this on here.

I just have high expectations for it especially when im not using the same setup as most people on here. Like BC264, enthalpy tune,52 trim .64 2871,93 pump gas 740 injectors etc and putting down 320-340whp on a dynojet.

Ive seen a couple people do something different on this board like codyace(extrude honing and JWT cams),4x4le (E85,Nistune),Idaho tuner (24psi lol), DrifterProdigy85 (Tomei 270 procams 12Xmph traps in the quarter), etc. they have all been sucessful with going 4XXwhp.

If i dont put down atleast 400 i honestly would be dissapointed. So im going to stop with the Bench Racing and let it put down the numbers.

[jspaeth]

Wait so what turbo is this exactly?

Is it a 2871R with a 3071R (T04E with 3" inlet) compressor housing and the EWG-44 turbine housing?

So it's just a 2871R with different housings, right?

Paired with those cams and E85.....


On pump gas, with those cams, I would guess that you could put down 410 or 420+, peak power, but it is not going to be anywhere near as responsive as Cody's setup for example.


My guess is that on pump gas, you won't see 300 ft-lbs until at least 4500 RPM or so.

[S13 curtis]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

Wait so what turbo is this exactly?

Is it a 2871R with a 3071R (T04E with 3" inlet) compressor housing and the EWG-44 turbine housing?

So it's just a 2871R with different housings, right?

Paired with those cams and E85.....


On pump gas, with those cams, I would guess that you could put down 410 or 420+, peak power, but it is not going to be anywhere near as responsive as Cody's setup for example.


My guess is that on pump gas, you won't see 300 ft-lbs until at least 4500 RPM or so.

4"inch inlet and yes 2871 with different housings. but yea def not as responsive as codys, his is fuckin nasty with a sick ass powerband lol.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by idahotuner

well i got a good deal on a gt2871r .86 so we will see what happens with it. might not be a dyno tell next spring or later this fall.

Whatever happened to the last 2871r you had? And the motor as well?

Originally Posted by S13 curtis

Peak of course, i drag more than drift, but the power band should be good E-85 also help out alot as far as spool and power. I made it for more power up top reason why i went with tomei 270 procams.

Special things about my set up/Different:
-T04E 3071R Compressor
-.72 Turbine housing
-Tial V44
-E85
-3"Cutout
-Standalone EMS
-Tomei 270 duration cams i think one other person used this on here.

It's a nice setup, but in the same regard I think you're really restricting yourself trying to stay T2 for some odd reason, other than to run an insane amount of boost and timing to make a number...when you could just run a top mount, lower boost, and really make some power with a larger turbine y aknow? As a drag guy I understand peak is key, but under the curve is much more important than peak...unless you're chasing trap speeds that is.

I mean, my car when 11.6 at 120.....which isn't bad (should be a low 11 with more time and a drag suspension), so it's proven that the traditional setup could nail you a high 10 with a lighter car...so I don't know why you'd not just go big topmount and really make hp

(again not trying to sound dicky or take anything away, it's a neat setup, but seems counter productive to a point)

Originally Posted by S13 curtis

Ive seen a couple people do something different on this board like codyace(extrude honing and JWT cams),4x4le (E85,Nistune),Idaho tuner (24psi lol), DrifterProdigy85 (Tomei 270 procams 12Xmph traps in the quarter), etc. they have all been sucessful with going 4XXwhp.

I'm glad I'm the pump gas guy on that list

[S13 curtis]

Originally Posted by codyace

It's a nice setup, but in the same regard I think you're really restricting yourself trying to stay T2 for some odd reason, other than to run an insane amount of boost and timing to make a number...when you could just run a top mount, lower boost, and really make some power with a larger turbine y aknow? As a drag guy I understand peak is key, but under the curve is much more important than peak...unless you're chasing trap speeds that is.

I mean, my car when 11.6 at 120.....which isn't bad (should be a low 11 with more time and a drag suspension), so it's proven that the traditional setup could nail you a high 10 with a lighter car...so I don't know why you'd not just go big topmount and really make hp

(again not trying to sound dicky or take anything away, it's a neat setup, but seems counter productive to a point)



I'm glad I'm the pump gas guy on that list

Yea your right, the only reason i stayed T2 is because i didnt want to have alot of custom work done because my my friend would of probly had a hard time. I also wanted to try something different with the new EWG V44 housing and nobody had tried it yet so i decided to be the first lol, i even tried to sell the set up cheap at one time for 1k shipped and jus kept getting people that flake.I actually was looking to put a Holset HX40 on it and run that set up if i got rid of this one, i think that wouldve been a nice set up.

but as of now im thinking of getting a splitfire coilpack set up and some Weld&Mickey Thompson Big and skinnys as far a wheel tire choice for drag.