General politics discussion. Keep it civil.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by deolio

^Cool. You won't be missed.

This implies otherwise....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertw...h=55c3e0b519a6

Originally Posted by deolio

You aren't listening to what I'm saying. I get it, we have it good and I agree, but why wouldn't you want it to be better?



The supposed shining city on the hill I see looks a lot better for everyone in it rather than just the elite who lucked, sucked, and fucked their way to the top.

You are part of that elite and rather then bring appreciative you complain the world owes you and is unfair....

Originally Posted by deolio

A lot of people are working and tearing down the statues. Because people can be more than one thing.

Disagree. A lot of protests, riots and looting made possible because people have to much free time. Lots of them found collecting covid supplemental unemployment paid better then working.

If they actually had jobs, hobbies and families they'd find better ways to spend their time instead of trying to tear down a Columbus statue or get arrested while attempted to burn a federal court house...

Originally Posted by deolio

I don't think there should be student debt forgiveness.

Good, we can agree on that.

Originally Posted by deolio

However I do think education should be a lottttt fucking cheaper and the government could help with that.

Нет!!

Government can get fucked and go fuck off. Taxpayer Liable Student Loans is, was and continues to be the stupidest shit ever.

It is why costs have Exploded in the last 30 years. Universities have zero competition and charge whatever the max you can borrow.

The entire system needs gutted and rebuilt. You shouldn't force someone to spend $3k on a bullshit art class because they want a business degree. There is NOTHING you learn at university that you can't learn for free online.

Originally Posted by deolio

An investment in education (k-12, college, trade school, etc) is basically an investment in the economy. Having a better education helps regardless of you driving a tow truck or running a fortune 500.

100% agree and that starts with competition and deregulation. Parents should get to send their kid to whatever school they want. Some public schools get over $13k a year per kid and local private schools that cost less the $6k kick the shit out of them.

We need 100% education reform. Break the unions and restructure the entire thing. Professional administrators should run facilities, kids should be grouped on ability and not age and by 16 everything should be career and society survival focused.

Students should be encouraged to excel and not held back to the lowest standard. End factory managed education styles. Boys and Girls should have unique approaches, we should have more diversity in our teaches - ie male teachers and people with backgrounds other than education.

Originally Posted by deolio

Is Roger Ebert worth a damn?

Did he sit around watching Anime bitching about universal income or did he turn his passion into a career?

Originally Posted by deolio

I have 3 and I do well. Sup.



Went into more debt bootstrapping my ass into the game after college than I did while in college. And while my degree has little to nothing to do with any of my businesses, most peoples do.

Huh, so you, an average guy managed to beat the odds and luck, sucked, or fucked his way to success?

Sounds like that tuition money would have been more useful investing in your business....

Originally Posted by deolio

A college degree is necessary for a fuckton of jobs. Do you really want to go see a "doctor" with no med school training? An accountant with no CPA? A VC with no MBA? What the fuck are you even talking about? What is your issue with college? Inferiority complex much?

I actually have two undergraduates and an MBA.

My issue is it's a scam and an excuse. For 90% of the jobs that require a degree it's simply a "ticket punch".

Business school talk me jack shit about SAP, ERP management, government contracting, tooling fabrication, international program management, V-shaped Recoveries, 4ups, QDRP Reviews, export/import laws for Romania, etc.


Also all those jobs you listed are not the standard "Bernie!! Save us!! I can't pay off my Sociology Masters working at Whole Foods!!" crowd.

College has become this great dumping ground that everyone thinks you must go to or you are inferior and will never succeed in life. Additionally everyone must go no matter how dumb, lazy or poor. So millions go, millions rack up tons of debt with no actual goal or direction and come out stupider.

Originally Posted by deolio

Not everyone wants to break their backs, turn into an alcoholic, and die of lung cancer at 45.

Now who's projecting. So owning your own business and trying to make a living without universal income or $20/min instantly makes you a busted chain smoking alcoholic?

Originally Posted by deolio

Seeing things in black and white doesn't mean you're decisive, it just means you lack tact and the ability to understand complex situations.

If you want tact and understanding go see a priest. I need neither to highlight opportunities for someone to better themselves.

Just met a guy Saturday at the Pick N Pull. Spoke very poor English, obviously wasn't here legally and you know how he makes a living? He makes $200-$300 a day, a fucking day... 6 days a week - pulling parts for people.

Send him a text, he pulls it, you meet him, give him cash and then pay for the part. $100 for an engine or trans, $30 for alternative, $15 for control arm, etc.

Bruh, that's $5k a month off the books. I joked "damn what do you do with all that money!!"

"I have wife and 5 kids, all girls, what money! No money for me!!"

So don't cry to me about having only $400 in your pocket and the only answer is Government if your unwilling to put in the work, move, sacrifice and work towards a goal. Nobody owes you shit.

[kingkilburn]

Serious question. How?

https://twitter.com/verysleeby/statu...021037570?s=09

[deolio]

Originally Posted by Corbic

You are part of that elite and rather then bring appreciative you complain the world owes you and is unfair....

Talking to me or to "liberals?" Because that's the exact opposite of what I'm complaining about. I think everyone should have access to the resources and opportunities I had growing up. Not everyone is meant to go to college and become a surgeon, but it'd be nice if everyone had the option to. We'd end up with a much more skilled workforce and bump up that rookie 3% to a top .5%! ARE YA WITH ME товарищ

Originally Posted by Corbic

Disagree. A lot of protests, riots and looting made possible because people have to much free time. Lots of them found collecting covid supplemental unemployment paid better then working.

If they actually had jobs, hobbies and families they'd find better ways to spend their time instead of trying to tear down a Columbus statue or get arrested while attempted to burn a federal court house...

More black and white rhetoric blah blah blah show me some stats

Originally Posted by Corbic

Government can get fucked and go fuck off. Taxpayer Liable Student Loans is, was and continues to be the stupidest shit ever.

It is why costs have Exploded in the last 30 years. Universities have zero competition and charge whatever the max you can borrow.

The entire system needs gutted and rebuilt. You shouldn't force someone to spend $3k on a bullshit art class because they want a business degree. There is NOTHING you learn at university that you can't learn for free online.

I wasn't suggesting it to be paid by the tax payers, but by gutting and rebuilding as you said. Just for public colleges. Say, if prices were more comparable to city and junior college tuition. Private can do whatever the fuck they want.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Did he sit around watching Anime bitching about universal income or did he turn his passion into a career?

The way streaming is these days, if he were a 20-something, maybe he could do both

Originally Posted by Corbic

Huh, so you, an average guy managed to beat the odds and luck, sucked, or fucked his way to success?

Sounds like that tuition money would have been more useful investing in your business....

Luck and a little suck seemed to do the trick

Doing "well" and being at the top are quite different, but I appreciate the vote of confidence.

Had I not gone to college, I wouldn't have accidentally developed the skills that built the foundation for my career. And that's not to say I couldn't have made a career out of my degree.

Originally Posted by Corbic

My issue is it's a scam and an excuse. For 90% of the jobs that require a degree it's simply a "ticket punch".

True, I understand that, but also, unless you're given the opportunity to display your qualifications, that position that requires a degree is gonna chuck your resume.

Not everyone is or should be an entrepreneur.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Now who's projecting. So owning your own business and trying to make a living without universal income or $20/min instantly makes you a busted chain smoking alcoholic?

It's hyperbole. Just saying it's not a one size fits all situation.

Originally Posted by Corbic

If you want tact and understanding go see a priest. I need neither to highlight opportunities for someone to better themselves.

You're right, you don't need it for those purposes, but you do if you want to have a constructive conversation and a greater understanding of the world you live in.

[ronmcdon]

totally agreed college is pretty much a scam.

with most degrees a 4yr college is more or less is high school part 2. not unlike high school one for the most part memorizes a bunch of material, bullshits some tedious paper, passes the class, moves on. not much of practical value is really learned. a lot of time is expended, money is paid for student loans and $300 textbooks.

only real value is one gets to progress to a master's program of choice. even with a master's program I think the value of the education itself is questionable. it certainly was for 90% of the masters level classes in my profession. much of the real education I think occurs in work experience in whatever industry you're in and specialized training one gets post master's program.

wish one could at the very least opt out of a 4 years bachelors program and go right to a master's program like one could for trade school. aside from being a money grab where the gatekeepers profiteer, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. making it free is not really the answer because someone still has to pay for it.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Just met a guy Saturday at the Pick N Pull. Spoke very poor English, obviously wasn't here legally and you know how he makes a living? He makes $200-$300 a day, a fucking day... 6 days a week - pulling parts for people.

Send him a text, he pulls it, you meet him, give him cash and then pay for the part. $100 for an engine or trans, $30 for alternative, $15 for control arm, etc.

Bruh, that's $5k a month off the books. I joked "damn what do you do with all that money!!"

"I have wife and 5 kids, all girls, what money! No money for me!!"

So don't cry to me about having only $400 in your pocket and the only answer is Government if your unwilling to put in the work, move, sacrifice and work towards a goal. Nobody owes you shit.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

BUT THERE ARE NO JOBS OUT THERE! Killburn from fuck-off-Fresno is crying saying that inflation and jobs at wallmart arent good enough!!!!

Yet, there are folks like the one you posted who know how to HUSTLE and dont mind getting their hands dirty. Thats the difference. There are some lazy Americans out there.

[kingkilburn]

So you like paying taxes for food stamp, medical care, housing assistance, etc for underpaid walmart employees. You would rather put money directly into pockets of walmart executive staff and shareholders than see those trying to earn a living get it.

Those boots must taste awful good.

[dizzariot]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

This is exactly the sort of terrorism we fight abroad. Congrats to the Republican Party for driving us down this path.

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

This us v them fantasy land shit you peddle in is precisely the shit that needs booted from public discourse.

We need strong criminal libel laws for news and commentary. The well is poisoned.

...bruh. You and I were clearly making headway. Take it as you will, but dude you and I just did this dance and you're already contradicting again. You are perpetuating the 'sides' and you are poisoning the well.

Originally Posted by deolio

You're missing the point, which is that for a country in the top 3% (of what exactly idk) we could be doing a lot better.

Funny hearing you guys talk about how much you worked and then act like you aren't indoctrinated. "tHaT's bEcAusE We aReN't LAzY nEcK-bEarDeD IPA-dRinKiNg sNoWfLaKeS" Nah, it's because you buy into century old patriarchal bullshit. WORKING 65 HOURS A WEEK FOR THE CORPORATION AND GOING HOME TO MY SLAVE-WIFE WHO DOES ALL THE HOUSEKEEPING AND CHILD REARING REALLY MAKES ME FEEL LIKE A MAN!

Shit's old and corny.

Hey man, I'm not talking shit but I'm genuinely asking: are you married, or living with a significant other and have kids?

I'm about to have my first kid and my wife will be at home for the foreseeable future. She worked up until October of last year. Is she gonna keep the house clean because she's my slave? No. She's going to do it because she's my teammate and I'd do the same for her if she was working and I was at home...because I got pregnant...or...you get it. In this instance, falling into the gender roles (man go earn, woman stay home) was unavoidable due to only one of us having the hardware to birth and feed an infant...but who knows? Maybe I get an even better job one day and my wife can stay home and take care of my son and the house. Maybe (once my son is old enough) my wife gets a baller job and I stay home and clean the house and take care of our son. Would I be the slave, then?

Placing a value on hard work does not mean you are blindly indoctrinated. There is money on the proverbial table and there are people who will plot, plan, and figure out how to get it even if it means 'selling out to the man' and working for some corporation. To say we(?) do it because we're indoctrinated is a little short-sighted. We(?) do it because the money, unfortunately, is freedom to roam and provide yourself with some sort of security. If you go to ANY type of job where you are not your own boss, you are indoctrinated to earn. You can be a rat in a maze, the rat that's aware they're in the maze, or the rat that's not in the maze but still has to do something for the cheddar. Pun intended.

I edited my long-ass post multiple times just to end up here: You guys say 'typical Corbic and ixfxi' when they talk about hard work. Then Corbic and ixfxi say 'typical kids' when you talk about how the system is fucked and we're all indoctrinated. The latter have played the game enough to get ahead but where are you currently typing from? A small apartment, a house with roommates, or your parents' home? Do you feel safe parking your SChassis outside where you live? Is that your only car? (Generalizations work both ways.)

[kingkilburn]

Unless you are a voting member of the RNC or hold public under their banner you aren't a Republican. I don't know how many times and ways I need to say that.

Here, I'll say it again for you. Fuck the private political organizations that have coopted our elections and stolen our government from us.


The fantasy land us v them is the made up liberal/progressive/leftist v conservative/traditionalist. Your refusal to grasp the that is on you and your insistence that every disagreement be a fight is on you.

[kingkilburn]

Honestly, it's the constant insistence that everything must be personal and a big fucking fight that makes me want to fire bomb everything. You all have to be such miserable fucking assholes about every goddam detail that you can't even have a conversation.

No one wants to take your stupid empire of dirt from you. No one wants to force your pregnant wife to work. No one is demanding $100k to wash dishes. The existence of a world beyond your direct control is not a fucking threat to your way of life!


Every political anything here boils down to the same one fucking thing every time. Corbic and ixfxi think these youngins with electricity and in door plumbing have it too easy. Good for them. You agree? Good for you. A literal goddam century of statistical analysis says otherwise. America is dying a slow death of wealth inequality and austerity while hostile rivals work to surpass us and are s u c c e e d i n g. How long do we have to entertain old men yelling about soft youth because we're on a ticking clock here.

[dizzariot]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Unless you are a voting member of the RNC or hold public under their banner you aren't a Republican. I don't know how many times and ways I need to say that.

Here, I'll say it again for you. Fuck the private political organizations that have coopted our elections and stolen our government from us.


The fantasy land us v them is the made up liberal/progressive/leftist v conservative/traditionalist. Your refusal to grasp the that is on you and your insistence that every disagreement be a fight is on you.

Dude I agree here but your language used here is either failing you or you're being a hypocrite. I'm just pointing it out. I think I'm doing it in a reasonable way. I can do that without wanting to start an argument. Would you agree your WRITTEN WORDS here could be construed as contradicting?

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Honestly, it's the constant insistence that everything must be personal and a big fucking fight that makes me want to fire bomb everything. You all have to be such miserable fucking assholes about every goddam detail that you can't even have a conversation.

No one wants to take your stupid empire of dirt from you. No one wants to force your pregnant wife to work. No one is demanding $100k to wash dishes. The existence of a world beyond your direct control is not a fucking threat to your way of life!


Every political anything here boils down to the same one fucking thing every time. Corbic and ixfxi think these youngins with electricity and in door plumbing have it too easy. Good for them. You agree? Good for you. A literal goddam century of statistical analysis says otherwise. America is dying a slow death of wealth inequality and austerity while hostile rivals work to surpass us and are s u c c e e d i n g. How long do we have to entertain old men yelling about soft youth because we're on a ticking clock here.

Again, I pretty sure at least my tone was conversational. You're making this a fight rather than a discussion. That's why I have to add all these disclaimers to what I'm saying...you can't hear my tone of voice. We aren't exactly changing the world on Zilvia.

Who is succeeding and surpassing us? If 'they' succeed choose to go to war, our 'soft people' will fight it. I was in an 'easy' branch and I can tell you that none of us were ready for shit to go down and half us were not even qualified to operate the gear we had. People were complaining of being overworked and under-appreciated: AKA they were in the military. These are the people that I'm worried about. Their work ethic and entitlement are a symptom of the times.

I'd like to know how Russia and China are lightyears ahead of us in terms of wealth inequality...

OT:

https://coffeeordie.com/national-guard-parking-garage/

Coffeeordie is going the way of sensationalist news, but you can trust that they'll blindly defend the military. Planners probably didn't think this thing through and it led to a shitty set up for the people that deployed. It sounds like the dude that ordered them out of the parking garage was acting of his own accord without any real order to remove the troops...but that didn't make for good news headlines.

Also, from firsthand experience, the military is not doing the best job of handling COVID and this proves it.

[dizzariot]

Double Post,

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by dizzariot

I edited my long-ass post multiple times just to end up here: You guys say 'typical Corbic and ixfxi' when they talk about hard work. Then Corbic and ixfxi say 'typical kids' when you talk about how the system is fucked and we're all indoctrinated. The latter have played the game enough to get ahead but where are you currently typing from? A small apartment, a house with roommates, or your parents' home? Do you feel safe parking your SChassis outside where you live? Is that your only car? (Generalizations work both ways.)

certain people speak from knowledge and experience, and others talk out of their ass. you see, you cant have a conversation with someone people. the funny thing about politics is that anyone can talk about it, speak their opinions. the difference is, who speaks from facts and who spews bullshit. we're not all on the same level. some are on super mario world 1, and others have looped the game numerous times.

if there is anything i would like to say, is that i think its a damn shame so many people cant speak their opinions without getting into these massive arguments. but with killburn on this forum, i think he would contract and argue with himself. oh well, its good comedy i guess

[kingkilburn]

You have decided I'm the bad guy and decided I mean anything but what I have clearly stated. The only clarification you seek is my capitulation and that is not happening. This isn't a misunderstanding. If I don't sound inviting in entertaining this line of discussion further that's why.

[dizzariot]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

You have decided I'm the bad guy and decided I mean anything but what I have clearly stated. The only clarification you seek is my capitulation and that is not happening. This isn't a misunderstanding. If I don't sound inviting in entertaining this line of discussion further that's why.

Dude I'm really not. You words, as written, are the only thing I'm trying to make sense of. I don't know you outside of this forum but the typed words here are contradicting and I'm asking if you notice it or not, or if it's intended, or if it's simple a mix-up due to trying to respond in a hurry.

There is no 'gotcha' because at the end of the day I'm on the other side of the world doing fuck all. If you don't wanna talk, then don't. It's really fine, man. Your circumstances and beliefs only matter to me if we can find some commonality and agree to disagree. I really only care to make sense of what you're saying so I can understand. I'm pointing out contradictions to better understand what's up. If you don't want to answer me, then that's cool.

[kingkilburn]

You see a contradiction because you don't understand what I'm saying and you chose to attack rather than trying to find that understanding.

I keep saying that the DNC and RNC are private organizations. Citizen voters are not party members and have effectively zero say in their internal workings and party platforms. The wealthy and powerful do this dance with these two private organizations for the strange currency that is our votes and public perceptions. We Are Not Party Members. If ever you see me mention Democrats and Republicans I am not talking about citizen voters, I'm talking about public officials and party members.

If you want an us v them it is us the citizen voters v them the ultra wealthy and politically powerful. They float these bullshit narratives in the media and get people into mass hysteria. Team blue is dancing one way, team red dances the other, and you end up with everyone in hysterics over the dumbest shit while the Senate stabs us in the back with unanimous consent.
The wrinkle here is that the dance team red has been doing isn't just distracting it's dangerous.

The distraction that is Corbic and ixfxi is beyond frustrating because they are parroting old irrational talking points and everyone jumps right back into the hysterics. We never get to policy or even actual politics.

[kingkilburn]

As proof that both parties are full of shit watch the Democrats preach unity and moderation now that they've got full control. They'll demonize the Justice Democrats like they used to the Freedom Caucus.

And they'll lose the midterms, again, and we'll be back to status quo.

[Corbic]

Meanwhile.... Hotep Jesus looking to get the Twitter perma ban.

[deolio]

Originally Posted by dizzariot

Hey man, I'm not talking shit but I'm genuinely asking: are you married, or living with a significant other and have kids

I don't. Again, hyperbole. I don't know how to have serious conversations without exaggerating or being sarcastic. Probably why these discussions never go anywhere

Congratulations on the baby! (No sarcasm here)

Originally Posted by dizzariot

Placing a value on hard work does not mean you are blindly indoctrinated.

I just don't see working a lot of hours equating to working hard. I'm sure everyone knows someone who could turn sharpening a pencil into a 6 hour ordeal. If you, however, managed to save 5 kids and a nun from a burning orphanage in that 6 hour period, THAT is something to be proud of. Producing people who take pride in their work and are more than happy to work extended amounts of time is exactly the kind of worker our education system and society is structured to build. This is where you might insert the term "sheeple." Gotta achieve success so you can buy nice things and in turn feed the machine.

I'm not saying don't work hard or work for long hours if that's what floats your boat, but realize we're all indoctrinated from birth. Being aware of it helps put priorities in perspective.

Originally Posted by dizzariot

(Generalizations work both ways.)

Indeed. Easier to generalize than try to understand different perspectives. Corbic's replies the past page or whatever actually helped me get a better understanding of his thinking. It was a nice break from the memes

[Corbic]

We'll be seeing $5/gallon again real soon in America and prolly $10/gallon in California.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

You see a contradiction because you don't understand what I'm saying and you chose to attack rather than trying to find that understanding.

I keep saying that the DNC and RNC are private organizations. Citizen voters are not party members and have effectively zero say in their internal workings and party platforms. The wealthy and powerful do this dance with these two private organizations for the strange currency that is our votes and public perceptions. We Are Not Party Members. If ever you see me mention Democrats and Republicans I am not talking about citizen voters, I'm talking about public officials and party members.

If you want an us v them it is us the citizen voters v them the ultra wealthy and politically powerful. They float these bullshit narratives in the media and get people into mass hysteria. Team blue is dancing one way, team red dances the other, and you end up with everyone in hysterics over the dumbest shit while the Senate stabs us in the back with unanimous consent.
The wrinkle here is that the dance team red has been doing isn't just distracting it's dangerous.

The distraction that is Corbic and ixfxi is beyond frustrating because they are parroting old irrational talking points and everyone jumps right back into the hysterics. We never get to policy or even actual politics.

This.

Screw the parties; they're leeches set upon us by the wealthy and powerful.

Screw the parties, screw the large corps, and screw the alphabet agencies. Screw Joe Rogan, Elon Musk, Zuckerberg, Ellis, and the rest of them. Screw every news network.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

This.

Screw the parties; they're leeches set upon us by the wealthy and powerful.

Screw the parties, screw the large corps, and screw the alphabet agencies. Screw Joe Rogan, Elon Musk, Zuckerberg, Ellis, and the rest of them. Screw every news network.

And yet you apposed Trump at every step... The only political threat to both parties and corporations.

Fucking Ironic.

[kingkilburn]

Oligarchy or kleptocratic dictatorship... That's not even close to a hard question to answer.

[kingkilburn]

Mcconnell has given up his attempts at blocking the removal of the filibuster. This is a pretty big deal.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by Corbic

And yet you apposed Trump at every step... The only political threat to both parties and corporations.

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Oligarchy or kleptocratic dictatorship... That's not even close to a hard question to answer.

Oligarchy, as in the Bush or Clintons.

Dictatorship, as in a newly elected president with no fanfare, only troops to protect the inauguration.

Trumps dictatorship? As in not being penalized for NOT having health insurance? No wars started. Middle east peace plan.

The only thing kleptocratic were the 2020 election results for a corpose who didnt campaign

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by Corbic

And yet you apposed Trump at every step... The only political threat to both parties and corporations.

Fucking Ironic.

Six of Heaven's Gate in one hand, a half dozen of Jim Jones in the other. Y'all are a suicide cult on a longer timeline.

[kingkilburn]

We're just going to pretend Trump didn't try to kill Congress and the Vice President. Flynn's brother in the army totally didn't involve himself preventing national guard deployment at the Capitol at a pivotal time. Can't forget Trump trying to push out everyone at the top of the DOJ in the final days as he hunted down an acting ag willing to hand him the election.

[kingkilburn]

$15/hour by 2025 is too late and too little. Leave it to Democrats to gain overwhelming power and use it drop crumbs from on high.

[feito]

leftists on a car forum focused on high power gasoline engines. Oh the irony. Hey mods, can we get an EV forum section for all of them? I got a real bad feeling about this presidency and ICE. Not good for our hobby and passion, at all....

[kingkilburn]

A whole as non sequitur

[ixfxi]

killburn, do you even have a job? how do you have so much time to post? dude has to live at home

Originally Posted by feito

leftists on a car forum focused on high power gasoline engines. Oh the irony. Hey mods, can we get an EV forum section for all of them? I got a real bad feeling about this presidency and ICE. Not good for our hobby and passion, at all....

i agree........... first month and he's kickin the pipeline (and the jobs) to the curb. real smart, right?