How many use manual steering?

[91CRXsiR]

ok, my crx has no power steering and parking isn't fun. im a pretty strong guy and i still have to use both hands..

BUT it does feel more stable when im driving faster than 5-10mph once the car starts moving there isn't much of a diff IMHO so if it saves u some power and you DONT have the PS installed already go for it, you might like it, if not then install it.

[MakotoS13]

Originally Posted by Tygma

Why spend all that money on it if its only a lowly 4cyl? Do what's better for the car, RIGHT? Uh oh... I think your silver paint job MAY make you feel cool, i think 5 lug conversion MAY make you feel cool.. but as far as i can see.. it's not BETTER for the car. Why didn't you take all the money you saved and buy a "better" car, Mr. Cool. So you, are the infamous "RICE" that you speak of.

okay right off you're making blatant assumptions. like the one about a 4cyl. im going to turbo my lowley sohc for experiementations sake alone. i fully plan on dropping a small block V8 of some variation into it before im done. i dont have to justify the mods i've done with the car. i treat all my vehicles like pets and do what i feel is in their best interest at the time. the doesn't leak, squeek, or creak and drives/looks infinitely better than when i picked it up.

i do what I think is cool, not what the current trend is. you still didn't explain why full on race cars have power steering yet need to do everything they can to reduce weight. unless you're in a glorified gokart like an F1 car there is a need because it is a significant performance tool.

[Tygma]

I'm not a race car. Haha.

It's useful to me, bottom line. I can grip/drift/etc way better because I have feedback. And... since I'm NOT a race car, and this is a car that I do drive very hard, I enjoy the feedback. It gives me a basis for learning. I do, however think I will make the switch back to P/S when it comes time. Agreeing with your statement about technology available such as p/s in race cars... if i'm going to be in that application i'll have experience and be able to utilize what's available to me without working hard in the driver's seat. But, for now, I love my manual steering

[SilviaSativa]

Of course, every driver knows how to steer, but the race car's steering is extremely sensitive -- less than a quarter turn of the wheel will make the race car turn as tightly as it can. It connects the driver's body directly with the ground -- few race cars have power steering.
http://www.racingschools.com/tips/steering.shtml

The third day we got to the Formula cars — 135 bhp but just 1100 lb.; no power steering, no power brakes, straight-cut gears, no padding for your butt and a tiny steering wheel — real race cars
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....ber=2&preview=

Though I quit googling through endless pages for a race team that didn't have power steering, to say all race cars have power steering is talking out of your ass. I did find a race team stating that they used power steering in race cars for two reasons: First- The fastest gear ratios available are power gears. Second- The driver is less fatigued.

Originally Posted by MakatoS13

its like you pick and choose what you want because you feel its COOL not what makes it a better CAR.

and that, ladies and gents, is what i call rice.

So pretty much what you're saying, is you, yourself, are a ricer. Why did you buy those $450 kouki tail lamps!? Same for your brand new paintjob. Because it made your car look cooler, not any better.
Right..

[MakotoS13]

actually, it made my car look newer and better. the tails i had were faded, cracked, held water, and the body was in pretty bad shape. i dont know if you've priced any usdm lights for a 240 or not but they 450 is comparitively reasonable for an oem part.

my car IS better for these things, though they in no way bake it faster. the same with the relay for my Efan. not having it isn't really a big deal but having it means that when i shut the car off the fan doesn't feed current back into the system only to let the car stall out moments later. i never said that things without performance merit make you a ricer, an idea you completely fabricated from wishful thinking, but more than what i do for my car is for a greater purpose than bragging about my latest JDM mod or calling smart people that utilize useful technology pussies. its worse than saying we're wusses cause we like AC in our cars.

[krustindumm]

My 91 civic doesnt have P/S (and CRX's wre never offered with it, BTW). Much better road feel, and if you need P/S on a car that size your a pussy, hit the gym.

My S13 does, however, and it will keep it. Being a daily driver i like to be able to flip the wheel around with one finger so I dont have to set down my coffee

[Tygma]

wait u spent 450 on those tail-lights? Damn that's $$$ just to replace some cracked ones

Manual steering owns you.

[91CRXsiR]

who cares if ppl want thier OWN car to look nicer/better/newer/trendier so if you had birdshit on ur car you wouldn't wipe it off?

manual steering isn't for everyone and why spent money on stock parts when u can upgrade

[MakotoS13]

i think he's just shocked that an S13 owner would spend a WHOLE 450 DOLLARS without question like its not a lot of money in car terms... cause it isn't.

oh and... power steering did in fact come on CRX's

[91CRXsiR]

450 is a good price too , use to sell for like 650

[420sx]

ok

the reason u guys say all that cuz u drive on bushings. i have spherical bushings (solid) front and rear. and bumpsteer is a bitch. so lets not talk about powersteering. its there to make things easier/better

[sciamop]

The S13 has overboosted power steering. It seriously *sucks*. I would ditch the PS in a second if my arms were half as strong as Makato's keyboard warrior fingers.

For all the he-men that have no problem muscling the 240 around without it, I salute you.

On Topic: Has anyone tried to auto-X the S13 w/o PS?

Todd
91 SE-R (better PS than the S13)
93 Coupe

edit: If you have SR/KAT, you can *always* use the throttle to steer the car. Watch out for pedestrians and law enforcement, though!

[jOeHaCk98]

so its overboosted. get a smaller steering wheel and wider tires, you will love it.

[pruto]

ok, here is why i want to try to go without ps.

last drifting event, i broke the pinkie on my left hand (ouch, i know), being that i don't want to be a pussy and just call it a day and waste 100 bucks. i decided to just drift one handed. I had my left hand on the wheel but couldn't apply enough pressure to hold it.

anyway, my point was this, i realized how much my powersteering sucked. it overheats, it was fighting me when i was countersteering. It did weird snap oversteer things and bumpsteer was a bitch. It did things that just didn't feel very natural. All of this i didn't notice before cause, well, two hands kept it in check better. I spun out a lot more but got used to it at the end, and my skills i think grew from the one handed experience (drifting skills you sick people).

Anyway, maybe this isn't ps problems, or my ps system just needs to be rebuilt, and i probably could have drifted a lot worse without ps. but hey, you never know until you try it. so i'll try to do an event without ps in the future.

[Tygma]

450 is not a good price for some replacement tails. 200 is a good price. or even 40-50 bucks, just as replacements (as Makoto said)

[sciamop]

get a smaller steering wheel and wider tires, you will love it.

I have 16x8 w/ 225/45 on the front and it's overboosted.

Is there an aftermarket steering wheel with the same dimensions as a glazed donut?

Seriously, is it possibly to underdrive the PS pump with a different pulley? I'd love to increase the steering effort by 30-50 percent...

450 is not a good price for some replacement tails...

There's been alot of interest in these stupid taillights and how much they cost. I think someone should start a separate thread...

Todd
91 SE-R
93 Coupe

[MakotoS13]

why can't you just put a ps cooler on there or sumthin? i know they make electric water pumps and such, what of power steering pumps?

Originally Posted by Tygma

450 is not a good price for some replacement tails. 200 is a good price. or even 40-50 bucks, just as replacements (as Makoto said)

when you're buying new OEM parts it tends to be costly anyhow. ever price any kind of head or taillight from a dealer? look at close to 200 a pop on average (usually more). i could replace them with grapefruit if i felt so inclined but the idea here is to shape the car into what i want while restoring it to a like new state.

[nissan_driver24]

[QUOTE=SilviaSativa]Man there are a lot of pussies posting in this thread, especially this makiti guy! Rice...lol!
Early 90's MR2s came standard with manual steering, I don't even know if it was an option. It's there for driver assist and thats about it.
QUOTE]


MR2s are mid engine cars... also just like the acura nsx..... they don't need ps cause the are so light up front... so this is a very very bad comparision....

i drove my car after i got my sr in w/o ps for about 3 months and i used to drive my dad's toy pick up truck alot and it doesn't have ps.... it was alright for a lil while, u get a feel for the road but after time i got really tired of it and don't really like it...

i guess whether having ps or not is more of a preference....

[Flybert]

Power steering with a quicker rack, smaller steering wheel, and wider tires feels awesome on our cars.

As for having problems with the PS system boiling over, just run a PS cooler. All problems solved.

[jOeHaCk98]

i agree. 16x8 is small i run 17x9s in the front.

[krustindumm]

Originally Posted by MakotoS13

oh and... power steering did in fact come on CRX's

never in the north american market.
Steering rack assembly for 91 CRX DX, AT

Si's and Hf's were all manual racks, all manual transmissions. DX's were offered with auto's, but not power steering. Through the Civic DX with auto trans could be ordered with PS.

<---Honda technician

[Pancor]

When a car is built for sale to the public, it is engineered for the lowest common denominator. In this case, that would be our 80 year old Grandmas. Nissan had to sell a car that a frail old woman could handle, and they did. Since I am surely not a frail old woman, I removed all power-assisted steering function from my steering rack to increase road feel 10X, and love it!

[MakotoS13]

Originally Posted by krustindumm

never in the north american market.
Steering rack assembly for 91 CRX DX, AT

Si's and Hf's were all manual racks, all manual transmissions. DX's were offered with auto's, but not power steering. Through the Civic DX with auto trans could be ordered with PS.

<---Honda technician

don't believe i specified the country they were sold in.

[goodjuan]

[QUOTE=sciamop]...
On Topic: Has anyone tried to auto-X the S13 w/o PS?
...QUOTE]

I've autocrossed in my s13 without PS. You do NOT notice it. I was afraid it would be a problem but it wasn't. By the way I am a weakling of a man at 5'6" 130lbs. If you're driving in the correct driving position with the center of the steering wheel in line with your shoulders you have more than enough leverage to push the s13 wheel around. (I can't get the position exactly as I want it due to the stock layout but I can get pretty close. A new steering wheel and hud would really help)

[MikeFD3S]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and tastes, but I still believe a properly working power steering system is superior to manual.

The absolute worst thing anyone can do is take off their PS belts, or modify their PS system to simulate a manual rack. I think that's the point I want to get across the most. If someone wants to spend $450 to get a new manual rack, thats on them...but I think that's money that can go to other things.

Power steering rack > manual rack > video game drifting > bench racing > fake manual rack/modified PS

Makoto is correct, most professional race teams cars have power steering.

A good PS system has excellent steering feedback, or is a hybrid manual assist type. All of my cars have power steering or power assist, and it definitely doesnt hurt the feel i have for the road, or my ability to sense the traction of the wheels. The PS on the 240SX is not bad at all as far as 'feel' goes. The only problem with it is it's tendency to boil over.

[goodjuan]

Tell that to the Realtime Racing ITR team. They use a modified power steering rack on their car and i'm sure they don't spend their time bench racing or playing video games. Also, their car is front wheel drive, so imagine the leverage they may need to keep torque steer under control lap after lap.

Granted I am quite inexperienced in motorsports, I refuse to jump to a conclution about something until I have seen for myself otherwise or the motorsports world has shown to be true.

Power steering is always better than manual steering? There is plenty out there to show otherwise. Power steering racks converted to manual are bad? Not always the case. Why make such blanket statements? It just holds you back. This forum should be a a place of sharing knowledge between enthusiasts, not a place to put out myths.

http://www.itr1220.com/scc_mar2001/index_rtr.htm

on another note: it sucks parking my car.

[timmybgood]

right after i got my 240 the PS pump started goin bad, working on and off. so i took it off and its been no problem. parallel parking is of course more difficult, but i can still do it without too much effort.

[Tygma]

goodjuan-

I felt the same way about autoX. It gets a little tight in some of those turns and I thought I would be struggling a bit, but it just feels about the same as a go cart. I also run a 70mm steering wheel spacer and Tomei 350mm steering wheel.. It feels realllllllllllllll solid w/o the powersteering.. highly reccomend an aftermarket wheel and spacer!

[nismo2491]

I ditched it on both my ka-t cars. I love not having it, seems to be more responsive and stuff, but I'm not a big road feel person anyways, I just care about straight line