Drift entrance techniques/form

[godspeed01]

Originally Posted by JDMStanced

My question of location completely ignored lol.
I tired sliding from making a right turn today. I spun out for the first time lol . On the next one, i let the rear lose grip by flooring, counter steering little bit to go to the direction i want, then i floored. I did it to have more angle in the corner but i was just going the direction of counter steer. No more angle. what's did i do wrong?

you spun out because you have slow hands....

faster hands = no spin out.

[godspeed01]

Originally Posted by TrustS13

My 2nd time at the track, open for criticism.. I will note the car is on a 235/40 up front on a 9.5 +12 wheel, with my 15" spares on the rear. They sure did smoke a lot lol.. I have my collars removed on my car, the front is as low as my d2's will let me go... I almost want to raise it, I binded the steering at the end and spun, but it was a decent run overall..

My entry started awesome but I straightened then e-brake.. and idea on how to keep up the momentum for a sideways entry?

speed... lots of it

[Csomme]

Seriously? You think JRs car has positive camber? Are you retarded?

hardly anyone in formula D runs positive camber, if anyone even does.

[fckillerbee]

^^^^ did you not look through the pictures. Forsberg runs crazy positive rear camber.

it's not a matter of looking at pictures. IT'S A FACT.

edit: happy?

[ziptie]

hmm i see youre point.
I think drift is different though. You can see a driver drift a car completely stock car better then someone with entirely modified to perfection car. Its a freestyle motor sport without the need for a perfect lap. With drift its not the car but the driver. You cant win like ryosuke in initial d, studying everything mechanically on a computer. You just have to go out and feel it in whatever car you have. The perfect suspension geometry isnt what drift is about. But i guess thats because im more interested in grass roots then comps.

[fckillerbee]

[Perfect Balance]

And that is why the idea of positive camber = zero camber when loaded isn't really accurate. It's obviously got positive camber during a drift.

[Csomme]

Pictures can lie guys, you have to know this.

Forsberg may run a tad, but its a lot less than you think if any at all.

NONE of the ASD cars run any positive camber, I can guarantee that. And obviously a Mustang with a solid rear axle won't have positive camber.

Pictures can be deceiving.

[Csomme]

And if you know so much about the bro's car, spell his name right.

[Perfect Balance]

Originally Posted by Csomme

Pictures can lie guys, you have to know this.

The guy who did his suspension said he runs positive camber.

[theianmcdougall]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

Mercer? I'm not Chmercer lol. While I do agree that drift cars are not maintaining G-forces as long as actual road race cars, they are still experiencing body roll.

This picture shows that the full face of the tire is now hitting the ground (which in turn will give more grip) due to camber. I have experienced this personally in terms of grip. When I ran more camber in back, my car was able to gain speed faster due to the fact that there was more tire contacting the ground. Subsequently, running too little camber in back will make the car feel a little twitchy during transitions, and over all; but that can be more towards what tire you run.

Hahah never thought i'd see my Daily driver pop up in a drift technique thread


Dont really drift it anymore due to me building a 240. And one of the reasons i went with the s13 over the z33 is suspension setup

When i got the Z33 i got megan street coilovers. They ride super good and dont handle bad, but the problem with most Z coils is that they aren't true type coilovers. Stance and a few other companies make true coilovers but the majority ive seen dont. the reason this is a problem is because the arm that holds the spring controls your toe. and if you lower the z you cant get good camber and toe numbers w/o getting an adjustable toe arm. And spl is the only company that makes a arm that holds the spring an is adjustable, but its like 800 bucks with everything, (ouch).

On the z i was running like -4 degrees of rear camber at that event, and although my body roll put more tread down on the ground, it still didnt handle like i wanted it too. front camber settings were good and it did fine (-3 to -3.5). but my rear ate tires wayy to fast and didnt gain speed as fast as i know it could do.

On my s13 i dialed it in too front -2.5 to -3 and rears are at -2. and i like where it is at.

ive never personally drifted with 0 rear camber but in my personal opinion a degree or 2 of camber in the rear helps when your body rolls from those sideways g's

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by Csomme

And if you know so much about the bro's car, spell his name right.

cause that clearly matters. Thanks for coming in this thread and providing NO information what so ever.


as far as the pictures. you can see in vegas...that's not under load. Which I wonder if the pictures I have shown are not under load. As many pictures of his car "under" load shows good contact patch.

[Csomme]

So who's the guy you supposedly got Chris' information from? What's his name and what not?

I'll verify it with Chris when he comes to town.

Don't run positive camber, pros don't do it, pictures obviously lead you to believe different things(ie JR's car that someone posted as having "positive camber"). Keeping your camber a tad negative and giving yourself like 1/16th to 1/8th of an inch toe in in the rear(all depending on how low you are) will give you the sidebite you need and allow you to use the whole contact patch. I have had and seen awesome results with this and all around even tire wear.

Don't get all pissy with me bro. I'm in the game, I work with and around professionals, obviously if there was an upside to running positive camber it wouldn't be coming out just now. These cars squat a lot, but they DO NOT squat enough to run a considerable amount of positive camber while keeping the car competitive.

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by Csomme

So who's the guy you supposedly got Chris' information from? What's his name and what not?

I'll verify it with Chris when he comes to town.

Don't run positive camber, pros don't do it, pictures obviously lead you to believe different things(ie JR's car that someone posted as having "positive camber"). Keeping your camber a tad negative and giving yourself like 1/16th to 1/8th of an inch toe in in the rear(all depending on how low you are) will give you the sidebite you need and allow you to use the whole contact patch. I have had and seen awesome results with this and all around even tire wear.

Don't get all pissy with me bro. I'm in the game, I work with and around professionals, obviously if there was an upside to running positive camber it wouldn't be coming out just now. These cars squat a lot, but they DO NOT squat enough to run a considerable amount of positive camber while keeping the car competitive.

I'm not getting pissy with you. This has been a conversation on this thread for more than enough pages. And you came in here with no information and just stated what you saw.

Now that you mention you are friends with him, that will help the information that I have found. Maybe even get us actual specs to his car?

My buddies name is Luis, He's friends with the dude that built chris's car. We were talking after Long beach with Essa and Licup about suspension and how Dai's car is set up all crazy as we were noticing some interesting changes while he was mid drift (we were in the NOS VIP). And then the subject came on about how Chris runs positive rear camber. Luis said he knows the dude that built it, and would let me know. So sure enough...a few weeks later, he said yeah...they were running something crazy on there. Didn't give exact specs, but did say that he's running positive. Said it had to do with the z's suspension being completely different.

I've asked Chris about tire pressure's and how he changes sizes depending on tracks and what not, but never got in the discussion about his suspension. I don't personally know him, and suspension is kinda the "secret" to being on top of the game.

[Csomme]

Not great friends with him but know the dude. When he gets in town this week for XDC I will ask and let you know for sure. I'll also try to find why.

Z's suspension is different, but running positive camber still makes absolutely no sense.

I'll send an email to Mike and ask him his take on it and see what he says. That'll really give us some good insight.

[iamtheyi]

Oh and another idea for the other noobs out there, changing the damping on your coils will have some pretty major impact on the car feel. For stock KA, you want to turn the damping to "hard" and the fronts to "soft". Car gets a lot easier to drift.

I believe for SR's and higher hp/tq cars, you soften the rears and stiffen the fronts. Don't know. I don't have a high hp/tq car lol. Anybody want to confirm or flame me?

[ericcastro]

Originally Posted by fckillerbee

Pictures lie. two distorted dutch angle photos and one showing the side with no weight that is lifted.

Originally Posted by Csomme

Pictures can lie guys, you have to know this.

Forsberg may run a tad, but its a lot less than you think if any at all.

Originally Posted by Csomme

Z's suspension is different, but running positive camber still makes absolutely no sense.
.

I thought the Z squated so hard that they DID run posi camber, or close to it.



NO ONES DRIFT SETTINGS ON HERE SHOULD SHADOW ANY PRO CAR.
you fucking guys are retarded arguing this shit.
you have half their HP or less, and aren't on throttle and squated like they are, so who gives a flying fuck.

Your car should mirror your tracks, speeds and HP.

So move on to something more interesting please

[JDMStanced]

i recently went drifting in my 05 350z with stance coilover. Damper was set 8F/ 10R, i think.
When i was drifting, i didn't notice it squating much but a guy who saw me drifting said it was squating enough to ALMOST scrape the bottom of the rear bumper on the ground.
my car is low but i think there's a little more room than a normal height of a shoe.
my rear camber is around -1.7. Should i set it more positive>?

[Csomme]

If you're able to, I would say yes. Do you want more rear end grip? Or are you okay with what you have now?

What's your tire wear like? What are you're toe settings in the rear?

[JDMStanced]

Originally Posted by Csomme

If you're able to, I would say yes. Do you want more rear end grip? Or are you okay with what you have now?

What's your tire wear like? What are you're toe settings in the rear?

i'm a beginner but i felt that i can't speed up after deep angle drift transition.
The wear is pretty bad. The inner side wears quite more than the outer. I need more positive camber but i don't know how much, and i want it to be useful for autox also.
I went to a couple of autox events and one drift event after alignment was done like 2~3 months. So it probably changed some. The toe was set to 0.

[Jeff Jones]

Originally Posted by JDMStanced

i recently went drifting in my 05 350z with stance coilover. Damper was set 8F/ 10R, i think.
When i was drifting, i didn't notice it squating much but a guy who saw me drifting said it was squating enough to ALMOST scrape the bottom of the rear bumper on the ground.
my car is low but i think there's a little more room than a normal height of a shoe.
my rear camber is around -1.7. Should i set it more positive>?

NO, you should set it to Zero or -0.5 max. This will let the wheel gain negative camber in a turn or drift allowing for contact patch (more grip). If it was set to positive 0.5 then it would go to zero under load,and sense your car will be in a lean it will be like positive still. Got it?


The reason Chris and a few other big shot in formula D run positive is because we run big bang tracks were there is a long drift in one direction with a quick switch and then back to the same Direction. So Irwindale for example. Right rear -0.0 to -0.5 camber 30psi, Left rear +0.5 to +1.0 camber 25psi. They even go as far as towing the car to the track. right rear 1/4 toe out, left rear 1/4 toe in.

These are examples and my opinion, have fun.

[JDMStanced]

Originally Posted by Jeff Jones

NO, you should set it to Zero or -0.5 max. This will let the wheel gain negative camber in a turn or drift allowing for contact patch (more grip). If it was set to positive 0.5 then it would go to zero under load,and sense your car will be in a lean it will be like positive still. Got it?


The reason Chris and a few other big shot in formula D run positive is because we run big bang tracks were there is a long drift in one direction with a quick switch and then back to the same Direction. So Irwindale for example. Right rear -0.0 to -0.5 camber 30psi, Left rear +0.5 to +1.0 camber 25psi. They even go as far as towing the car to the track. right rear 1/4 toe out, left rear 1/4 toe in.

These are examples and my opinion, have fun.

thanks for your response.
I get what you are saying, but is there a reason why you recommend "-.5" max? Chris' probably has stiffer spring rates than my stance gr+ true type. So my car will squat more than his, resulting more negative camber. Is that mean i should have more positive camber than Chris?

How do you know so in detail about Chris' car by the way? i've always looked upon his car.

[!Zar!]

I'm pretty sure most of all the guys running a zillion torque have softer springs, not hella stiff ones.

[Matej]

Yuck. One could not pay me to sit through a Formula D event.

Watch the Drift Bible three times a day. Buy the most expensive suspension pieces available. Rump it at the nearest cul-de-sac.

[JDMStanced]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

I'm pretty sure most of all the guys running a zillion torque have softer springs, not hella stiff ones.

i really don't know anything for sure as i'm a medium noob lol
I've always thought that drifting requires stiff springs. And i saw some drifting cars (stripped interior and roll cage)rolling on the freeway before. Even if the road was bumpy, their wheel gaps were staying constant...Oh maybe cause their cars were so low and had no suspension travel which looked like they had stiff sus ! But then, i don't know how low you have to go on those cars to bottom out.

Matej: i feel that huge Clariton decals don't look really nice lol

[Csomme]

Originally Posted by Jeff Jones

NO, you should set it to Zero or -0.5 max. This will let the wheel gain negative camber in a turn or drift allowing for contact patch (more grip). If it was set to positive 0.5 then it would go to zero under load,and sense your car will be in a lean it will be like positive still. Got it?


The reason Chris and a few other big shot in formula D run positive is because we run big bang tracks were there is a long drift in one direction with a quick switch and then back to the same Direction. So Irwindale for example. Right rear -0.0 to -0.5 camber 30psi, Left rear +0.5 to +1.0 camber 25psi. They even go as far as towing the car to the track. right rear 1/4 toe out, left rear 1/4 toe in.

These are examples and my opinion, have fun.

Makes sense. I've seen other teams and what not keep the same alignment and just space one wheel out more than the other.

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by iamtheyi

Oh and another idea for the other noobs out there, changing the damping on your coils will have some pretty major impact on the car feel. For stock KA, you want to turn the damping to "hard" and the fronts to "soft". Car gets a lot easier to drift.

I believe for SR's and higher hp/tq cars, you soften the rears and stiffen the fronts. Don't know. I don't have a high hp/tq car lol. Anybody want to confirm or flame me?

in higher horsepower cars...the goal is to have grip to push forward. stiffer in the front makes the car understeer more....which means more full throttle angle drifting.

Originally Posted by ericcastro

Pictures lie. two distorted dutch angle photos and one showing the side with no weight that is lifted.





I thought the Z squated so hard that they DID run posi camber, or close to it.



NO ONES DRIFT SETTINGS ON HERE SHOULD SHADOW ANY PRO CAR.
you fucking guys are retarded arguing this shit.
you have half their HP or less, and aren't on throttle and squated like they are, so who gives a flying fuck.

Your car should mirror your tracks, speeds and HP.

So move on to something more interesting please

castro...we've discussed the basics to death. That's why we want to know the pro's setup. I hope no one is actually trying to use these pro setups on their car...they would have a problem drifting with them cause of too much grip.

Originally Posted by JDMStanced

i'm a beginner but i felt that i can't speed up after deep angle drift transition.
The wear is pretty bad. The inner side wears quite more than the outer. I need more positive camber but i don't know how much, and i want it to be useful for autox also.
I went to a couple of autox events and one drift event after alignment was done like 2~3 months. So it probably changed some. The toe was set to 0.

you felt that it couldn't speed up cause you have too much camber. when you look at your worn tire. the worn part is the part that touches the ground. You want all of your tires to be worn evenly. shows full contact.

Originally Posted by Jeff Jones

NO, you should set it to Zero or -0.5 max. This will let the wheel gain negative camber in a turn or drift allowing for contact patch (more grip). If it was set to positive 0.5 then it would go to zero under load,and sense your car will be in a lean it will be like positive still. Got it?


The reason Chris and a few other big shot in formula D run positive is because we run big bang tracks were there is a long drift in one direction with a quick switch and then back to the same Direction. So Irwindale for example. Right rear -0.0 to -0.5 camber 30psi, Left rear +0.5 to +1.0 camber 25psi. They even go as far as towing the car to the track. right rear 1/4 toe out, left rear 1/4 toe in.

These are examples and my opinion, have fun.

Jeff....I've seen you drive since you pretty much started. Please don't take this personal, but the only time I've ever seen you drive legitimately would be long beach last year...and even then...it was one run. I don't know if it's your driving, your cars tuning, or you being new to the tracks, but I wouldn't take anything you say...and apply that to a car. I don't want to sit here and bash all the shitty driving I've seen from you, but at the same time....you are a pro driver, and if you aren't doing well in the season, I would blame the car. Cause if your specs ARE right.....then you are just a shitty driver.

Hell...i would blame the shitty tires you have to deal with, and the jz that you have weighing down the front end of your chassis not giving you any grip...but unfortunately.....that's what tuning is for....to compensate for that weight difference. I don't know.....I guess I shouldn't even be talking since I'm not "pro". But that's what I see.

[ericcastro]

Originally Posted by Jeff Jones

NO, you should set it to Zero or -0.5 max. This will let the wheel gain negative camber in a turn or drift allowing for contact patch (more grip). If it was set to positive 0.5 then it would go to zero under load,and sense your car will be in a lean it will be like positive still. Got it?


The reason Chris and a few other big shot in formula D run positive is because we run big bang tracks were there is a long drift in one direction with a quick switch and then back to the same Direction. So Irwindale for example. Right rear -0.0 to -0.5 camber 30psi, Left rear +0.5 to +1.0 camber 25psi. They even go as far as towing the car to the track. right rear 1/4 toe out, left rear 1/4 toe in.

These are examples and my opinion, have fun.

Good info and real insight.
Thanks Jeff for chiming in.

Originally Posted by JDMStanced

How do you know so in detail about Chris' car by the way? i've always looked upon his car.

Because he is one of the top 32 guys that has to compete with Chris monthly

Originally Posted by fckillerbee

I hope no one is actually trying to use these pro setups on their car...they would have a problem drifting with them cause of too much grip.

Isnt that kid above asking about Forsbergs car in comparison to his setup?

Originally Posted by fckillerbee

..I guess I shouldn't even be talking since I'm not "pro".

....Even when they arent doing the best, they are driving at a much higher level and speed then the rest of us. my 2 cents.

[JDMStanced]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

I'm pretty sure most of all the guys running a zillion torque have softer springs, not hella stiff ones.

This brings up the car set up for those supercars (ferrari, r8, lambo and stuff like that) trackings.
Those made for track only cars have almost zero wheel gaps. Tire sidewalls are almost vertical, right below the fender edge. This has to mean that their spring set up is stiff, if not, the tires will kill the fenders at every corner.
How do you explain this?

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by JDMStanced

This brings up the car set up for those supercars (ferrari, r8, lambo and stuff like that) trackings.
Those made for track only cars have almost zero wheel gaps. Tire sidewalls are almost vertical, right below the fender edge. This has to mean that their spring set up is stiff, if not, the tires will kill the fenders at every corner.
How do you explain this?

coilovers. They just look like they are super stiff. Hell if you ever saw my s14 on the freeway, you would see almost no movement in my suspension. But On a track, I would get about 2 inches of compression.

I have a buddy running 5k springs on his KW's in the rear...coils just makes cars look like they ride really shitty.

Also, wheel cambers under compression...aka tucks in the fender. The lower the car...the easier the wheel will tuck under the fender because of the suspension geometry.