West, PSI240SX, IceTek, ca18guy, and whoever else - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

*LanceS13* · 01-22-2002, 02:08 AM

(oh jeez...not this again) <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
I know these have been asked b4, but most of the answers seem to be pure speculation and no real answers based on real experience with each engine.
So here goes.

Alright...as alot of you know, I'm planning a motor swap this summer--more particularly, a CA18DET.
Admittedly, I sorta jumped into this with my main reason being the initially cheaper installation...and didn't really look into costs for upgrades down the road or power delivery characteristics compared to the other two options. The fact that some of my autoX friends have been recently harping on the torque loss from the 0.6 L loss hasn't helped my confidence in my decision to go with the CA. Also, the motor that's "supposed" to be in there (JDM spec anyway) is the S13 SR.
So...my mission now is to do a #### of alot of research on the big three b4 the "deadline"<--first of April so I can have the motor and everything together by the first of summer.
My initial goal is 275hp by the end of summer, very possibly eventually pushing it to 300-350hp later on, but no higher.
I need price estimates for the KA-T and SR--this is where IceTek, Mark and PSI come in...hopefully. (already done research on the CA, but any additional info would be greatly appreciated...especially a dyno graph--know of any Don?).
But what I'm also concerned with is power delivery and reliability. I would like to see some dyno graphs so I can compare torque curves...this would be a great help. I'm looking for smooth, predictable power delivery...ie. a fairly flat torque curve in the 3000+ rpm range.  Has anybody here dynoed their turbo cars? How are they holding up reliability-wise?

SMOG testing is of no concern.
Current engine is at 153,2xx miles and counting...easily 156K by summer.

I don't really care to see design comparison and the like...mainly b/c it's likely all been said before a few pages back in the forums. I'm looking for solid numbers/dyno graphs and first hand experience testimonials concerning reliability and price.

how's that for a novel? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

(Edited by LanceS13 at 3:13 am on Jan. 22, 2002)

*ca18guy* · 01-22-2002, 01:19 PM

Here's some dyno chart's.... <a href="http://www.amgr.com.au/nissansilvia/tech/techinfo.asp" target='_blank'>http://www.amgr.com.au/nissansilvia/tech/techinfo.asp</a>

*DSC* · 01-22-2002, 01:46 PM

never have I seen so few posts in a ka-t vs ca vs sr thread before. heh, we may actually get usefull information...Unfortionately none of which I can provide...:)

*LanceS13* · 01-22-2002, 01:53 PM

thanks Don, but it'll only let me  enlarge the first two thumbnail  dynos...all the other ones are dead links.  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

*LanceS13* · 01-23-2002, 09:16 AM

Come on guys...I just need some real life prices for the KA-T and SR swaps.  I realize it's kinda nosey asking how much you spent, but it would help me loads...if this is the issue maybe you could  email me?

Also, what octane/grade gas are you turbo (especially JDM engine) guys running?  Is 93 high enough?

PSI240SX · 01-23-2002, 08:16 PM

Hey Lance, sorry I haven't been here for awhile but I will try to help. First off lemme state that I am an avid autocrosser and my car is jaw drop fast out there, I recently attended a state championship in Gainesville and out of 108 cars I was 8th fastest, that includes about 30 full race only cars on full slicks. Only 2 street cars beat me and they were both new Z06's with state champion drivers, and race tires. I won my class hands down. Now as for costs I can try to break it down for you.
Pistons/rods from JW (instock) $1800. You can get JE and Crower for about $700 cheaper but will probably have to wait for them.
Turbo, used T3/T4 60-1 hifi stage 2 (small for quick spool up) $650
Wastegate, Tial 35mm $235
Manifold, dont get a revhard!! a custom one will be cheaper and better, probably around $350
ECU from JW $600 for the 720cc program with the subtractor circuit
Injectors from JW $400
Fuel rail from JW $225
Intercooler Spearco, got a good deal $385
Boost contoller (allready had) about $300
All labor and machine work and installation, including the intake manifold, intercooler piping, making of downpipe, was like $2200. So it was about $7100 total for a bullet proof motor and all accesories, I know its alot but it was worth it to me, plus the car was allready turbo when I bought it so when I blew the motor I sold the old components to recoop the costs of the new stuff. Hope that helps.

*LanceS13* · 01-23-2002, 08:36 PM

thanks alot PSI :biggrin:
that really helped...especially you naming all the components <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
Do you plan to dyno the car? If not, could you describe power delivery...smooth? lumpy? narrow or wide power band?
Is the engine holding up well?
Again...sorry for all the questions. I just want to make sure I go the route that will suit me the best.

now...where's IceTek?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> Is he the only SR 240 on here? He's the only frequent member I can recall with one.

(Edited by LanceS13 at 9:41 pm on Jan. 23, 2002)

*DSC* · 01-23-2002, 09:01 PM

s15det6k (not quite right on the name but close) has an sr in his car.  He's not around much tho

Drifting Ricer · 01-23-2002, 09:22 PM

If you get a hold of movingviolation240 from 240sx.org you'll be in great shape. He owns 300HP+ CA!
He loves it e-mail him. He doesn't show up many times a flight instructor.

Got my koni's and kg/mm put on fianally!

*LanceS13* · 01-24-2002, 04:36 PM

TTT
one mo' 'gin

thanks guys
I'll keep an eye out for them.

*LanceS13* · 01-24-2002, 04:53 PM

hey Drifting Ricer
you wouldn't happen to know that dude's email would you?

95teg · 01-24-2002, 05:06 PM

If you get an sr20det s13 engine, you can have 300rwhp for around 10k everything installed.  That includes the front clip, turbo upgrade, fmic, engine sleaving, IHE, and a manifold.  There is a place in atlanta that will do it for you depending on where you live.

peace
jon

*LanceS13* · 01-24-2002, 05:11 PM

bah...I don't want some pre-fab performance package.  That takes all the fun out of it...plus I'm willing to bet I could hit 300hp for a pretty penny less than $10K if I did it myself...at least I hope so.

95teg · 01-24-2002, 05:16 PM

its not prefab at all. I've been down there to see them cause I've been thinking about a 240sx and an sr20det s14 swap (also why I just joined the board). They order the engine and will put it in your car with a warrenty for around 4 or 5 depending on milage. Then if you wanna up grade you can yourself. I was just saying 10k for 300 hp cause you can get 300 hp cheaper, but wouldn't  you rather have good parts and a reliable car.

peace
jon

(Edited by 95teg at 5:19 pm on Jan. 24, 2002)

(Edited by 95teg at 5:26 pm on Jan. 24, 2002)

crazycuban · 01-24-2002, 05:50 PM

yeah, i have an sr - it isnt running yet, and its an s14, but i can give u some numbers.

s14 sr20 front clip = 4000
-u'd prolly go with the s13, and i'm sure u know the price on that...if u don't, 2g-2.5g

needed shit
blitz fmic = 900
apexi n1 turbo = 550
greddy downpipe = 190
sard BOV = 240 w/ shipping
ACT clutch = 350

not needed shit, but cool
greddy radiator = 600
greddy oil pan = 350 - hasnt come in yet

yeah, thats pretty much it i think...it SHOULD be done saturday, but then again, nothing with this swap is ever done when its supposed to be, so...

thats pretty much how much it costs, save equipment and random nuts and bolts...i'll hopefully be taking it to get dyno tuned next week, and i can give u numbers from that.

(Edited by crazycuban at 5:53 pm on Jan. 24, 2002)

*DSC* · 01-24-2002, 06:00 PM

95teg, you talkin about unstable-hybrids?

95teg · 01-24-2002, 06:15 PM

yes sir I am

Drifting Ricer · 01-24-2002, 09:14 PM

hey lance here is e-mail adresses
[email protected]
what you mean buy :TTT
one mo' 'gin?

*LanceS13* · 01-24-2002, 10:08 PM

thanks.

TTT=To The Top
one mo' 'gin=One More Again=One More Time...just being silly <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

PSI240SX · 01-25-2002, 11:37 PM

I would like to dyno it but probably never will because I am selling it. Wide power band, not super smooth though, the engine seems to be fine when I don't overheat it, TWICE!! @@RRGGHH! First time had to have the head shaved, second it just blew the gasket!

*LanceS13* · 01-26-2002, 01:27 AM

why you getting rid of it?

01-26-2002, 03:03 PM

How's this for a KA+T:

'97 KA with bolt on F-Max Stage 2 at 1.0 bar. 318.3rwhp @6,000rpm and 329ft-lb torque at 4,300 rpm.  Stock internals and on 91 octane. Intake cam uses Nissan Motorsport intake cam. GT Spec exhaust.

At 10psi, I was putting down about 278rwhp after I put on the HKS Twinpower ignition control unit.

Altogether about $5k in engine hardware. I'd say be like Dennis down in Atlanta. Drop in a lower mileage S14 motor, and build a bolt on turbokit with it.

01-26-2002, 03:43 PM

So the internals were able to handle one bar of boost. at what point would you have wanted to strengthen the motor. See i am looking to push 300 to 350hp from my ka when i turbo it, which won't be for a while. So until then i am gathering information. how did you like the fmax kit?

01-27-2002, 01:37 AM

It's okay. Not the most optimal design, but good enough.

drift freaq · 01-27-2002, 02:22 AM

well here in Cali you can get a SR20DET full clip for like $1600-$2000 . but I am going KA+T . I found a guy down here that is going to weld a manifold for me and I am assembling the parts based on analysis of all the different kits on the market.

01-22-2002, 02:08 AM	#1
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 42 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	(oh jeez...not this again) <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> I know these have been asked b4, but most of the answers seem to be pure speculation and no real answers based on real experience with each engine. So here goes. Alright...as alot of you know, I'm planning a motor swap this summer--more particularly, a CA18DET. Admittedly, I sorta jumped into this with my main reason being the initially cheaper installation...and didn't really look into costs for upgrades down the road or power delivery characteristics compared to the other two options. The fact that some of my autoX friends have been recently harping on the torque loss from the 0.6 L loss hasn't helped my confidence in my decision to go with the CA. Also, the motor that's "supposed" to be in there (JDM spec anyway) is the S13 SR. So...my mission now is to do a #### of alot of research on the big three b4 the "deadline"<--first of April so I can have the motor and everything together by the first of summer. My initial goal is 275hp by the end of summer, very possibly eventually pushing it to 300-350hp later on, but no higher. I need price estimates for the KA-T and SR--this is where IceTek, Mark and PSI come in...hopefully. (already done research on the CA, but any additional info would be greatly appreciated...especially a dyno graph--know of any Don?). But what I'm also concerned with is power delivery and reliability. I would like to see some dyno graphs so I can compare torque curves...this would be a great help. I'm looking for smooth, predictable power delivery...ie. a fairly flat torque curve in the 3000+ rpm range.  Has anybody here dynoed their turbo cars? How are they holding up reliability-wise? SMOG testing is of no concern. Current engine is at 153,2xx miles and counting...easily 156K by summer. I don't really care to see design comparison and the like...mainly b/c it's likely all been said before a few pages back in the forums. I'm looking for solid numbers/dyno graphs and first hand experience testimonials concerning reliability and price. how's that for a novel? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> (Edited by LanceS13 at 3:13 am on Jan. 22, 2002)

01-22-2002, 01:19 PM	#2
ca18guy Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Clearwater FL Age: 41 Posts: 3,226 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: ca18guy Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Here's some dyno chart's.... <a href="http://www.amgr.com.au/nissansilvia/tech/techinfo.asp" target='_blank'>http://www.amgr.com.au/nissansilvia/tech/techinfo.asp</a>

01-22-2002, 01:46 PM	#3
DSC New Title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: VA Posts: 3,454 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	never have I seen so few posts in a ka-t vs ca vs sr thread before. heh, we may actually get usefull information...Unfortionately none of which I can provide...:)

01-22-2002, 01:53 PM	#4
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 42 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	thanks Don, but it'll only let me  enlarge the first two thumbnail  dynos...all the other ones are dead links.  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

01-23-2002, 09:16 AM	#5
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 42 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Come on guys...I just need some real life prices for the KA-T and SR swaps.  I realize it's kinda nosey asking how much you spent, but it would help me loads...if this is the issue maybe you could  email me? Also, what octane/grade gas are you turbo (especially JDM engine) guys running?  Is 93 high enough?

01-23-2002, 08:16 PM	#6
PSI240SX Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: The Gunshine State Age: 49 Posts: 843 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Hey Lance, sorry I haven't been here for awhile but I will try to help. First off lemme state that I am an avid autocrosser and my car is jaw drop fast out there, I recently attended a state championship in Gainesville and out of 108 cars I was 8th fastest, that includes about 30 full race only cars on full slicks. Only 2 street cars beat me and they were both new Z06's with state champion drivers, and race tires. I won my class hands down. Now as for costs I can try to break it down for you. Pistons/rods from JW (instock) $1800. You can get JE and Crower for about $700 cheaper but will probably have to wait for them. Turbo, used T3/T4 60-1 hifi stage 2 (small for quick spool up) $650 Wastegate, Tial 35mm $235 Manifold, dont get a revhard!! a custom one will be cheaper and better, probably around $350 ECU from JW $600 for the 720cc program with the subtractor circuit Injectors from JW $400 Fuel rail from JW $225 Intercooler Spearco, got a good deal $385 Boost contoller (allready had) about $300 All labor and machine work and installation, including the intake manifold, intercooler piping, making of downpipe, was like $2200. So it was about $7100 total for a bullet proof motor and all accesories, I know its alot but it was worth it to me, plus the car was allready turbo when I bought it so when I blew the motor I sold the old components to recoop the costs of the new stuff. Hope that helps.

01-23-2002, 08:36 PM	#7
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 42 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	thanks alot PSI :biggrin: that really helped...especially you naming all the components <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> Do you plan to dyno the car? If not, could you describe power delivery...smooth? lumpy? narrow or wide power band? Is the engine holding up well? Again...sorry for all the questions. I just want to make sure I go the route that will suit me the best. now...where's IceTek?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> Is he the only SR 240 on here? He's the only frequent member I can recall with one. (Edited by LanceS13 at 9:41 pm on Jan. 23, 2002)

01-23-2002, 09:01 PM	#8
DSC New Title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: VA Posts: 3,454 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	s15det6k (not quite right on the name but close) has an sr in his car.  He's not around much tho

01-23-2002, 09:22 PM	#9
Drifting Ricer Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Boston MA Posts: 608 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If you get a hold of movingviolation240 from 240sx.org you'll be in great shape. He owns 300HP+ CA! He loves it e-mail him. He doesn't show up many times a flight instructor. Got my koni's and kg/mm put on fianally!

01-24-2002, 04:36 PM	#10
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 42 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	TTT one mo' 'gin thanks guys I'll keep an eye out for them.

01-24-2002, 04:53 PM	#11
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 42 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	hey Drifting Ricer you wouldn't happen to know that dude's email would you?

01-24-2002, 05:06 PM	#12
95teg Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 26 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If you get an sr20det s13 engine, you can have 300rwhp for around 10k everything installed.  That includes the front clip, turbo upgrade, fmic, engine sleaving, IHE, and a manifold.  There is a place in atlanta that will do it for you depending on where you live. peace jon

01-24-2002, 05:11 PM	#13
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 42 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	bah...I don't want some pre-fab performance package.  That takes all the fun out of it...plus I'm willing to bet I could hit 300hp for a pretty penny less than $10K if I did it myself...at least I hope so.

01-24-2002, 05:16 PM	#14
95teg Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 26 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	its not prefab at all. I've been down there to see them cause I've been thinking about a 240sx and an sr20det s14 swap (also why I just joined the board). They order the engine and will put it in your car with a warrenty for around 4 or 5 depending on milage. Then if you wanna up grade you can yourself. I was just saying 10k for 300 hp cause you can get 300 hp cheaper, but wouldn't  you rather have good parts and a reliable car. peace jon (Edited by 95teg at 5:19 pm on Jan. 24, 2002) (Edited by 95teg at 5:26 pm on Jan. 24, 2002)

01-24-2002, 05:50 PM	#15
crazycuban Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 526 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	yeah, i have an sr - it isnt running yet, and its an s14, but i can give u some numbers. s14 sr20 front clip = 4000 -u'd prolly go with the s13, and i'm sure u know the price on that...if u don't, 2g-2.5g needed shit blitz fmic = 900 apexi n1 turbo = 550 greddy downpipe = 190 sard BOV = 240 w/ shipping ACT clutch = 350 not needed shit, but cool greddy radiator = 600 greddy oil pan = 350 - hasnt come in yet yeah, thats pretty much it i think...it SHOULD be done saturday, but then again, nothing with this swap is ever done when its supposed to be, so... thats pretty much how much it costs, save equipment and random nuts and bolts...i'll hopefully be taking it to get dyno tuned next week, and i can give u numbers from that. (Edited by crazycuban at 5:53 pm on Jan. 24, 2002)

01-24-2002, 06:00 PM	#16
DSC New Title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: VA Posts: 3,454 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	95teg, you talkin about unstable-hybrids?

01-24-2002, 06:15 PM	#17
95teg Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 26 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	yes sir I am

01-24-2002, 09:14 PM	#18
Drifting Ricer Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Boston MA Posts: 608 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	hey lance here is e-mail adresses [email protected] what you mean buy :TTT one mo' 'gin?

01-24-2002, 10:08 PM	#19
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 42 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	thanks. TTT=To The Top one mo' 'gin=One More Again=One More Time...just being silly <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

01-25-2002, 11:37 PM	#20
PSI240SX Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: The Gunshine State Age: 49 Posts: 843 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I would like to dyno it but probably never will because I am selling it. Wide power band, not super smooth though, the engine seems to be fine when I don't overheat it, TWICE!! @@RRGGHH! First time had to have the head shaved, second it just blew the gasket!

01-26-2002, 01:27 AM	#21
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 42 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	why you getting rid of it?

01-26-2002, 03:03 PM	#22
Guest Posts: n/a	How's this for a KA+T: '97 KA with bolt on F-Max Stage 2 at 1.0 bar. 318.3rwhp @6,000rpm and 329ft-lb torque at 4,300 rpm.  Stock internals and on 91 octane. Intake cam uses Nissan Motorsport intake cam. GT Spec exhaust. At 10psi, I was putting down about 278rwhp after I put on the HKS Twinpower ignition control unit. Altogether about $5k in engine hardware. I'd say be like Dennis down in Atlanta. Drop in a lower mileage S14 motor, and build a bolt on turbokit with it.

01-26-2002, 03:43 PM	#23
Guest Posts: n/a	So the internals were able to handle one bar of boost. at what point would you have wanted to strengthen the motor. See i am looking to push 300 to 350hp from my ka when i turbo it, which won't be for a while. So until then i am gathering information. how did you like the fmax kit?

01-27-2002, 01:37 AM	#24
Guest Posts: n/a	It's okay. Not the most optimal design, but good enough.

01-27-2002, 02:22 AM	#25
drift freaq R.I.P. Aya, always love Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Los Feliz/Hollywood Posts: 18,562 Trader Rating: (215) Rides Gallery: drift freaq Feedback Score: 215 reviews	well here in Cali you can get a SR20DET full clip for like $1600-$2000 . but I am going KA+T . I found a guy down here that is going to weld a manifold for me and I am assembling the parts based on analysis of all the different kits on the market.