Arizona's Next Immigration Target: Children of Illegals

[Walperstyle]

I'm also not 'normal'. I really don't have all that much for electronics. Clothing actually most of it is made in Canada. Cost a bunch, but I'm also not trying to make some stupid fashion statement either, lol.

I think even with cars some of us need to shift our thinking. Strut bars, suspension, wheels, turbochargers, intercoolers, and piping can all be made and purchased in America. Why does everyone fall into that JDM trend? In efforts to be cool?

Fact is, nothing is original anymore, and joe average welder can make a FMIC and piping, sometimes for a lot cheaper.

Don't get me started on the skill-set of this generation either. Its amazing how 'smart' people are when it comes to world issues, but have no idea how to live without the internet. AKA, basic tools, and how stuff works.

I get appalled at the tech section on this site (and many others) for the types of problems people ask, or the solutions they do.

anyway... i'm way off topic and its late, lol.

[kingkilburn]

Originally Posted by ranger240

(edit: thats the case for germany, im sure there are ''other countries'' out there that dont have such laws, so until someone proves me wrong, that there are no countries with such laws, then i'm not 'expletive, christ off')

OOOOO Ninja edit lol


Many countries have the same type of laws regarding natural born citizenship.
Jus soli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




A lot of people in this thread should read this before discussing the article IMHO. It just helps to know the laws and precedents before jumping to conclusions.
Birthright citizenship in the United States of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[handinpants]

excuse me, but i hate to burst your bubble
"Senate Bill 1070, which allows law enforcement officers to ask about someone's immigration status during a traffic stop, detainment or arrest if reasonable suspicion exists - things like poor English skills, acting nervous or avoiding eye contact during a traffic stop."

was already a federal law before Arizona passed this bill to uphold the federal law on a local state level.

secondly, "The question is whether that would violate the U.S. Constitution?
The 14th Amendment states that "all persons, born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States."

answer: no it would not be ruled unconstitutional because they are not legal citizens, they are not entitled to such rights.


thirdly. the fourteenth amendment in the constitution states "The Constitution has left to the States the determination what person, born within their respective limits, shall acquire by birth citizenship of the United States;"

lastly, if you are committing a crime, chances are you will be punished. if you trespass chances are, you will be removed from the place you are trespassing on. and to sit, bitch, and moan that your a victim, well that's just irresponsible.
these illegal immigrants came here illegally, they knew they should not be here, and they still went out of their way to establish a family here illegally. They made their bed, now they need to be accountable for their actions and lay in that bed

I feel that these illegal immigrants what ever color they may be, don't deserve to stay here, and consume our tax payer funded programs.

[kingkilburn]

My question is not whether the enforcement of the law is constitutional but if the law itself is.

I don't think it is, and the children are legal US citizens under the constitution.

[amdnivram]

i just think Arizona is becoming a ass backwards state. I can't even see this as protecting citizenship anymore, its just ridiculous. If people are so worried about their jobs they should get off their asses and get one. If they dont like the amount they get paid, they should get an education. IF they cant afford it they should expect to get screwed. You cant blame the economy on illegals.

[handinpants]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

My question is not whether the enforcement of the law is constitutional but if the law itself is.

I don't think it is, and the children are legal US citizens under the constitution.

i think you need to read more about the birthright law of citizenship...
maybe they are citizens, but from what i read, they are not.

when i applied for food stamps, they offer that program to people in 27 different langauges other than american... why.

[andisan]

Originally Posted by lou's40sx

My solution is to let all the illegals be legal, and make them pay heavier taxes to obtain their citizenship. Gather up all the illegals, let them build us new freeways and tracks, tax the heck out of them. Boost the economy, raise the living standards, we all win.

I agree with you sir, imagine how much money will be produced from 12 million illegals we have now if we charge them $10,000-$20,000 for the fine and to process their papers. and then a yearly tax fee for obtainning a green card or a renewal fee for the green card every year. . . . . just an idea

[handinpants]

bump for racy topic

[kingkilburn]

Originally Posted by handinpants

i think you need to read more about the birthright law of citizenship...
maybe they are citizens, but from what i read, they are not.

when i applied for food stamps, they offer that program to people in 27 different langauges other than american... why.

They are citizens. That is not in question.


American isn't a language and English is not our official language. In fact we don't have one so most forms are capable of being given in multiple languages.
Personally I think we should just make English the official language already.

[handinpants]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

They are citizens. That is not in question.


American isn't a language and English is not our official language. In fact we don't have one so most forms are capable of being given in multiple languages.
Personally I think we should just make English the official language already.

well our declaration of independance is not written in spanish, french, german, or any other langauge,

[kingkilburn]

It was very nearly written in German and Dutch but that is irrelevant.

Until we adopt an official language you will continue to see many different languages in America.


This has nothing to do with illegal immigration btw. Maybe you should start a "pro English as America's official language" thread.

[theicecreamdan]

Originally Posted by handinpants

well our declaration of independance is not written in spanish, french, german, or any other langauge,

But the author understood the importance of other languages.

Spanish Language - Thomas Jefferson Encyclopedia

[cc4usmc]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Congress does have the ability. Arizona has no authority, not even an opinion on the matter.

Until the Constitution is amended or Federal law is changed Arizona is again breaking the law.

I understand that. Just found this article..

Congress Mulls Bill to Revise 14th Amendment Birthright Citizenship - ABC News

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

I don't think it is, and the children are legal US citizens under the constitution.

So if their parents get the boot, who's going to be responsible for the kids if they stay?

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Personally I think we should just make English the official language already.

Do you know why it isn't the official language? Is the gov just too afraid someone would claim they're discriminating if they pick English? lol.

[ESmorz]

Do other countries let you become a citizen if you plop a kid out on their soil?

Too lazy to look into it for a discussion here.

[ronmcdon]

^

Depends on which nation.
Why, you plan on becoming Canadian?

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

So if their parents get the boot, who's going to be responsible for the kids if they stay?

That was what interested me the most.
Not like we can afford bring up 4 million kids per year between Child Protective Services and adoption.
It's a financially & practically necessary step for AZ, assuming their earlier law remains.

Agreed with the revision to the 14th Amendment.
The context to which is was initially set up does seem to be irrelevant today and taken advantage of.
Interesting how Europe, and even India did away with Jus Soli.
It's not implausible they would have concerns about immigration not that different from our own (the US).

Now whether the law/amendment gets passed is another story.
(doubt that it will).

[HyperTek]

id think they would want their kid to be born in the US and give em up to someone else who can provide for em as they get the boot.. This idea is not cool with me btw

[D.Adams]

I live in Arizona and I am for this.

My brothers wife use to work for CPS/DES (child protective services) she would get in an illegal Hispanic family every week or so filing for Arizona cash assistance. The Arizona cash assistance program gives any family that resides in Arizona $300 per child a month. So these illegal’s come over to Arizona pop out 4-5 kid make themselves legal then sit on our tax paying dollars and don’t work. Its funny people that don’t live here in Az don’t understand we are not like California and do not want the over population and our money going to another country. When I lived in California for college I worked construction to pay my bills. Every day there would be an illegal walking up to the job site looking for work wanting to take my job. I have lost 3 jobs to illegals because they work for less money. Lose your job to someone that is sending money back to another country can’t have a US SSC and doesn't care about making this country a better place then come talk to me. California can boycott Arizona all they want please do so I wont half to deal with all the dumb kids coming out here thinking they own the town I live in.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20gvwUKgz5U

[kingkilburn]

We don't have to understand.

If it is not Constitutional it is not constitutional.

It sounds like Arizona has a stupid welfare system and it's legislators need to focus on fixing it instead of screwing over US citizens young and old.


EDIT:
I agree with your video btw. If you are illegally working take a hike. If you are employing illegal people you can equally take a hike.

That all has more to do with enforcing labor laws than immigration and denying citizenship though.

[cc4usmc]

king, what im taking from your posts is that youre 100% behind the Constitution and everything it says. Im just curious to know if you think it's possible for something to be outdated or, not as clear as it should be.

[kingkilburn]

The current Constitution will only be outed when we adopt a new one. Until then it is the ultimate authority.

There are areas that are a little vague due to what we are trying to interpret for. They could not have know what kind of world we would be living in two centuries later. That however does not change the fact that it IS our constitution and we must follow it.











I am not against ratifying a new constitution but that is a very slippery slope and I have ZERO confidence that the current congress can do it. I also have little to no confidence in the average American's ability to understand the current Constitution or the impact writing a new one would have.

[ronmcdon]

Well I don't think you can rely on any document as the ultimate authority on anything.
What's important is how the Supreme court interprets existing law, whatever it is.

Constitution is VERY vague imo.
Thats the reason why ppl interpret it in different ways,
Which is why shit always goes to court.
Which is why law pretty much falls on supreme court's interpretation of any given issue.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of the US Constitution at all, for it's purposes today.
The intentions are good and it was applicable at the time it was written.
It's intent for being open to revisions/amendments was awesome.

However, it's just a liability as far invitation to legal/political trouble goes b/c of it's ambiguous nature.
This is probably congress' fault throughout the years as to fail to update it more frequently.
(you cannot blame the founding father for this)
'Ultimate Authority' is more or less the supreme court imo.

Originally Posted by HyperTek

id think they would want their kid to be born in the US and give em up to someone else who can provide for em as they get the boot.. This idea is not cool with me btw

Give them to someone else?

How would you go about coordinating something like that realistically, with it being cost effective?
Come on man, USA or not, no parent should count on the state to take care of their kids.
It's unreasonable to expect any government to take that burden, regardless of whether or not the parents are citizens.

Remember, 4 million kids per year as per 2008 figures!

[kingkilburn]

I think you are mistaken. It IS the ultimate authority of law in this country. The Supreme Court must act according to what the Constitution says and Congress can not make any law those goes against it with out changing the Constitution itself.

[nismolvr]

The vast majority of Americans blame illegals for the current state of the economy.Instead of Blaming the Government.I mean ,if you leave your house unlocked ,who is at fault when thieves can walk right in and take your stuff?Yes the thief is at fault but whos job is it to secure the home?

Illegals do have a toll on our economy ,AND THEY ALSO HELP OUR ECONOMY. If the problem was addressed at the border ,stopping them from getting in in the first place,We wouldnt have this discussion .
Seems like every American President of the last 40yrs has looked the other way and spent money on something else rather than our borders.Our Government has money for Wars/space exploration and bailing Banks and Auto makers out of the red.What happened to all the ENRON ,Bank CEOs that robbed people out of their 401K retirements?There is more Money being Robbed by High standing White collar Corporate scumbags that think their above the law.I mean some of these guys Walked away with BILLIONS.I can go on and on about the home mortgage and loan bankers ..

I hate the media and how they censor and put a spin on things.Whats even worse is that alot of Americans are hood winked by it.They put attention on a certain subject to sway public opinion ,its a tool.

The Americans who had gravy jobs and lost them because of the bad economy are the ones complaining the loudest and If they are working now Im sure they are making less and its not behind a desk, I mean now they have to really work.They complain and see the Mexican building the Homes ,Schools ,harvesting produce and they say "They are taking our jobs!" Really?Government needs to go after Employers doing the hiring also.
I hope they take every illegal out (good luck),and see who claims their stolen jobs. And then we will see who White America can blame next.Americans are pissed off because times are hard ,who wouldnt be? Pointing fingers at illegals and making a racial witch hunt out of it,is wrong.

I am American Mexican and I get pulled over all the time for stupid shit ,I mean dumb stuff.I know the cops are profiling and play the numbers thinking I dont have a license or insurance or think Ive been drinking or have drugs or guns in my car or Im a gang member.I love it when ,they cant cite me for anything.I deal with it and I know not all Whites are Racists.There is good and Bad in Every Race .Some just think they are superior,Im sure that Hitler and his Nazis made up new laws as they went along during their campaign.

I think the real reason there doing this is because they fear that,in 20,30 + years in the future if Latinos keep growing in numbers ,we are going to be the ones Making up Laws as we see fit.......That scares the hell out of them........

[ericcastro]

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

So if their parents get the boot, who's going to be responsible for the kids if they stay?

Exactly

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

Why, you plan on becoming Canadian?

I wish so bad i had dual citizen ship with Canada.

Originally Posted by HyperTek

id think they would want their kid to be born in the US and give em up to someone else who can provide for em as they get the boot.. This idea is not cool with me btw

Agreed.
And if i lived in shitty blood bath corupt mexico, i would do the same if i had a child.
Much better opertunity here in the states.
But the amount of taxes one child going through foster families and all that shit cost is way mroe then the $300 a child they would get if they stayed.

Originally Posted by s13bdafocker

I live in Arizona and I am for this.

My brothers wife use to work for CPS/DES (child protective services) she would get in an illegal Hispanic family every week or so filing for Arizona cash assistance. The Arizona cash assistance program gives any family that resides in Arizona $300 per child a month. So these illegal’s come over to Arizona pop out 4-5 kid make .........

Dude, what makes you think Legal US residents dont do that?
they do it all day long.
Thats been a problem since for ever.
People like my single mother of a mom will raise 3 kids, put herself through a university and work while getting government help and living in government assist housing, while our neighbors just sit and smoke weed and collect money.

Being illegal has nothing to do with it.
Just lazy people.
Illegals are also some of the hardest workers you will ever see.

Originally Posted by nismolvr

The vast majority of Americans blame illegals for the current state of the economy.Instead of Blaming the Government.

Illegals do have a toll on our economy ,AND THEY ALSO HELP OUR ECONOMY. If the problem was addressed at the border ,stopping them from getting in in the first place,We wouldnt have this discussion .
Seems like every American President of the last 40yrs has looked the other way and spent money on .............bailing Banks and Auto makers out of the red.What happened to all the ENRON ,Bank CEOs that robbed people out of their 401K retirements?There is more Money being Robbed by High standing White collar Corporate scumbags that think their above the law.I mean some of these guys Walked away with BILLIONS.I can go on and on about the home mortgage and loan bankers ..

I hate the media and how they censor and put a spin on things.Whats even worse is that alot of Americans are hood winked by it.They put attention on a certain subject to sway public opinion ,its a tool.

The Americans who had gravy jobs and lost them because of the bad economy are the ones complaining the loudest and If they are working now Im sure they are making less and its not behind a desk, I mean now they have to really work.They complain and see the Mexican building the Homes ,Schools ,harvesting produce and they say "They are taking our jobs!" Really?
I hope they take every illegal out (good luck),and see who claims their stolen jobs. And then we will see who White America can blame next.
.

Mexican construction workers on ANY public building are probably union, not illegal.

People are really stupid and think working mexicans are illegals.
NO, they are just Mexicans.
Its fucking racist profiling.

I wish they would make EVERYONE that supports this take the illegals jobs for the same rate.
You know how much a non illegal would want for picking vegtables?
holy shit things are gonna get expensive, OR SHIP OFF TO OTHER COUNTRIES!!
No one would EVER work any of those jobs for that rate.
Mexicans arent taking jobs.
If you go to the places they work, they will hire you over them in a heart beat.
But you wont be there after 1 week at the pay rate.
So now you have lazy americans saying illegals are taking the work while they sit on their ass and do nothing about getting a new job, and collect unemployment.



If you are pulled over for something, thats fine if they question you about stuff.
But pulling you over to see of your a citizen is BS.
Police now do not need cause to pull people over.
No more innocent until proven guilty.

[cc4usmc]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

I also have little to no confidence in the average American's ability to understand the current Constitution.

So I take it you're not the average American? I'd just like to know where you're coming from and what your experience with the Constitution is.

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

-What's important is how the Supreme court interprets existing law, whatever it is.

-Thats the reason why ppl interpret it in different ways,

-Which is why law pretty much falls on supreme court's interpretation of any given issue.

-The intentions are good and it was applicable at the time it was written.

Knowing what the men who influenced and wrote the Constitution were about would make interpreting it much easier. And it wasn't written to last just a little while, it was written to be lasting. What has happened is we've been lead to believe that is has become "outdated" by the very people who continue to do all the stupid things they do while we sit around and say "wtf?" For instance, welfare... Never was supposed to be welfare, but there is.

"If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy." (Bergh, Writings of Thomas Jefferson, 10:342.)


That's just a quick and simple example of how things have become how they were never intended. I'm sure there's much more of that, but I'm not an expert in this field, that's just one of the things I happen to know.

Originally Posted by nismolvr

The vast majority of Americans blame illegals for the current state of the economy.Instead of Blaming the Government.I mean ,if you leave your house unlocked ,who is at fault when thieves can walk right in and take your stuff?Yes the thief is at fault but whos job is it to secure the home?

So it's the Governments fault you didn't lock the door? I see what you did there though, and if anyone is to blame for our country's spiral downward, it is ourselves, first and foremost. Anyone who is just blaming illegals is retarded.

Originally Posted by ericcastro

I wish they would make EVERYONE that supports this take the illegals jobs for the same rate.
You know how much a non illegal would want for picking vegtables?
holy shit things are gonna get expensive, OR SHIP OFF TO OTHER COUNTRIES!!
No one would EVER work any of those jobs for that rate.
Mexicans arent taking jobs.
If you go to the places they work, they will hire you over them in a heart beat.
But you wont be there after 1 week at the pay rate.

You make it sound as if they don't make minimum wage, and I have no idea if that's the case. So please inform me Mr. Castro.


We're really getting off topic though. Someone should make a Constitution thread.

[nismolvr]

Originally Posted by ericcastro

Exactly



People are really stupid and think working mexicans are illegals.
NO, they are just Mexicans.
Its fucking racist profiling.

I wish they would make EVERYONE that supports this take the illegals jobs for the same rate.
You know how much a non illegal would want for picking vegtables?
holy shit things are gonna get expensive, OR SHIP OFF TO OTHER COUNTRIES!!
No one would EVER work any of those jobs for that rate.
Mexicans arent taking jobs.
If you go to the places they work, they will hire you over them in a heart beat.
But you wont be there after 1 week at the pay rate.
So now you have lazy americans saying illegals are taking the work while they sit on their ass and do nothing about getting a new job, and collect unemployment.



If you are pulled over for something, thats fine if they question you about stuff.
But pulling you over to see of your a citizen is BS.
Police now do not need cause to pull people over.
No more innocent until proven guilty.

When I said i wish they would take all illegals out ,i said it sarcastically,common we know it aint happening.We would be paying $20 bucks a lb for Tomatoes and so on.I have heard time and time again people state ,They argue that illegals are taking away Americans Jobs.I know its bull when they say that, common.I do Asbestos /lead removal ,Im only doing it till I get My SMOG license . fucking hard shit and full of toxic shit.It pays good and cant see the average White dood doing it for a living ,I went to get recertified in renew my lead/asbestos worker permit this past two week ends, not one white guy in 4 days of instruction. I dont see them lining up for this kind of work.That is why I it wrote that.Second I do work for a Union here in Sacramento and believe me there are illegals working for the Union and yes they are members.Joining is a joke. 3rd ,when I stated about getting pulled over,I was simply stating that that shit has been happening to me for years ,only now If California passes similar law to AZ ,Ill have to carry my Passport with me.

[Walperstyle]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

^

Depends on which nation.
Why, you plan on becoming Canadian?

Canada doesn't want you guys. Thanks.

[kingkilburn]

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

So I take it you're not the average American? I'd just like to know where you're coming from and what your experience with the Constitution is

I've read it many many times, read many of the essays and treatises that inspired it, and have spent a huge amount of time discussing/debating politics and history. I am actually considering studying constitutional law.

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

You make it sound as if they don't make minimum wage, and I have no idea if that's the case. So please inform me Mr. Castro.

Farm labor is not regulated by the government. Strict records are not kept and there is not wage control in place. Most unskilled pickers make less than $2 an hour.

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

We're really getting off topic though. Someone should make a Constitution thread.

I think there is already one but if there isn't one should be started.

Originally Posted by nismolvr

When I said i wish they would take all illegals out ,i said it sarcastically,common we know it aint happening.We would be paying $20 bucks a lb for Tomatoes and so on.I have heard time and time again people state ,They argue that illegals are taking away Americans Jobs.I know its bull when they say that, common.I do Asbestos /lead removal ,Im only doing it till I get My SMOG license . fucking hard shit and full of toxic shit.It pays good and cant see the average White dood doing it for a living ,I went to get recertified in renew my lead/asbestos worker permit this past two week ends, not one white guy in 4 days of instruction. I dont see them lining up for this kind of work.That is why I it wrote that.Second I do work for a Union here in Sacramento and believe me there are illegals working for the Union and yes they are members.Joining is a joke. 3rd ,when I stated about getting pulled over,I was simply stating that that shit has been happening to me for years ,only now If California passes similar law to AZ ,Ill have to carry my Passport with me.

If you removed illegals from the farming industry it would continue as normal and people would work just as before. Prices likely will fluctuate but as long as there are jobs people will work them. As I said before there is no wage control so American's will be making the same as the Honduran's and El Salvadorian's are making now.

[lou's40sx]

The question is, Do you like driving in your nice 240sx on the streets with non insured Illegal immigrants? Why the heck did I pay extra for "NON Insured motorists?" WTF. Let alone an illegal that has no right by law, to operate a motored vehhhhhhhicle.

The children should be deported back as well as the illegal parents. Being born in the U.S.A. Doesn't make you an American. Any women can poop you out, anywhere, I was born in the back seat of a Datsun, but does that make me a Legal Datsun citizen? If your mom pooped you on the Moon, are you a Moon person? No, you're a human. Can you moon walk? A heeeee heeee!

My point is that I am not saying you can't play with us, but "if you want to drift the tracks, pay the fees like everyone else and GET IN LINE with the rest of us!"

[ericcastro]

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

You make it sound as if they don't make minimum wage, and I have no idea if that's the case. So please inform me Mr. Castro.
.

most of them make minimum wage, or just above.
But who can survive off that and will actually stick to a extremely hard job with that?
minimum wage is for highschoolers with fast food jobs and movie theater jobs.

Originally Posted by nismolvr

When I said i wish they would take all illegals out ,i said it sarcastically,common we know it aint happening.We would be paying $20 bucks a lb for Tomatoes and so on.I have heard time and time again people state ,They argue that illegals are taking away Americans Jobs.I know its bull when they say that, common.I do Asbestos /lead removal ,Im only doing it till I get My SMOG license . fucking hard shit and full of toxic shit.It pays good and cant see the average White dood doing it for a living ,I went to get recertified in renew my lead/asbestos worker permit this past two week ends, not one white guy in 4 days of instruction. I dont see them lining up for this kind of work.That is why I it wrote that.Second I do work for a Union here in Sacramento and believe me there are illegals working for the Union and yes they are members.Joining is a joke. 3rd ,when I stated about getting pulled over,I was simply stating that that shit has been happening to me for years ,only now If California passes similar law to AZ ,Ill have to carry my Passport with me.

I meant it at everyone generaly when i said that prices would start to soar of we took all illegals out.
I mean shit, people should just think positive, and be happy we arent outsourcing the work to another country.
Yes, illegals pick our food, but at least american farmers keep the farms and we keep control of our food, lol.

Thats pretty crazy your union is SO laxed about that stuff.
But you also arent on the building side.
You are on the Demo side it sounds like.
still, thats pretty mind blowing a Union would take that kind of risk with its members.