3000 people died on 9/11. we killed 100,000+ civilians in Iraq. is that okay?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

And of all those killed not a single one was ever more than a passing threat to America and most were no threat at all.

How did America kill these people? Did we gas them? Burry them alive?

Are you saying our power and influence rivals that of God? That those in these countries have no responsibility over their own actions, that the rest of the world has no responsibility to intervene?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Ghost240

Just adding fuel to the fire.

Can I play?

People Killed by Germany in the 20th Century - 120 million.

People killed by Mao - 78 million

Stallin - 28 million

Why don't we have a thread bitching about Germany?

[kingkilburn]

Originally Posted by Corbic

How did America kill these people? Did we gas them? Burry them alive?

Are you saying our power and influence rivals that of God? That those in these countries have no responsibility over their own actions, that the rest of the world has no responsibility to intervene?

SOVEREIGNTY

We have no business going into other countries and doing as we please. End of discussion.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Can I play?

People Killed by Germany in the 20th Century - 120 million.

People killed by Mao - 78 million

Stallin - 28 million

Why don't we have a thread bitching about Germany?

This isn't about them. This is about us. What other countries do is much less my concern compared to what is done by my government.





Do you have no standard of behavior that you would hold our government to, or yourself? Would you go into someone's house and just decide for them what they should be doing with their life, or else?

Be the master of YOUR domain and leave others' alone until their masters ask for your assistance.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

SOVEREIGNTY


Do you have no standard of behavior that you would hold our government to, or yourself? Would you go into someone's house and just decide for them what they should be doing with their life, or else?

So if your neighbor is a crack head firing off a gun... you would not try and stop him? You'd just like him go about his business till a stray shot killed your kid or he came over and robbed you?

Other counties business is not your own because we are as powerful as we are. If you where Bosnia or Poland you would live in mortal fear of your enemies and wonder everyday what they where up too and planning.

I'm sure you would care a lot if one day you could not get gas for your car, if your money was worthless and you could not afford an iphone despite having a top paying job and a college degree or if another county invaded us.

[kingkilburn]

Name a single country that was a direct threat to America since the fall of the USSR. Name a country other than the USSR since the end of WW2.


I'm totally in favor of acting to protect your own but that isn't what we have been doing.

Being big and powerful is no excuse for being a bully. In fact it shows how much responsibility is need to wield that power. This is 1st level comic shit man.



The only people that threaten the value of the dollar are the ones in control of it. That is an entirely different issue and if you would like to be schooled in that one I invite you to start another thread.

[kingkilburn]

What happened to inalienable rights? Freedom and liberty are what this country is supposed to be about. It should make you sick to your stomach that our government would take others' liberty to fool you into thinking you have your own.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

This is 1st level comic shit man.

The only people that threaten the value of the dollar are the ones in control of it. That is an entirely different issue and if you would like to be schooled in that one I invite you to start another thread.

Either your that stupid, or just trolling now.

Going back to the question at hand, +100k deaths in Iraq. The US did not create the ethnic hate that exists between Sunni and Shiite populations in the country. Nor did we create the pent of anger of the majority from being subjected by the minority for 60 years.

The vast majority of those deaths, as previously explained to you, is the result of internal ethnic conflict - not the actions of the US.

Saying its our fault is like saying its Congresses fault that 35k Americans die annually because they let us drive cars.

Maybe you should look at the other side. Instead of "Evil US invaded poor Iraq cause we were mad" try...

"Stupid Iraq did not stop Al Qaeda from attacking the US - they should have known it would have evoked American rage and a US Military response in the Middle East resulting in civilian deaths".

What about - "Evil Saudia Arabia - funding Osama and Al Qaeda knowing full well the US would eventually react when Al Qaeda killed 3,000 Americans"

[holemilk00]

Originally Posted by Ghost240

Just adding fuel to the fire.

You know how many times this poster has been debated?? And never has the proof for any of those numbers been presented. Let's just take one of those numbers; 500,000 children killed in Iraq, do you really think with all the human rights organizations around the world that we could have killed half a million children in Iraq and not be help responsible for it on at least one global stage?? The UN wouldn't even let us get away with that one. Sorry, those numbers are as over inflated as gtrmans $150,000 GT-R.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

What happened to inalienable rights? Freedom and liberty are what this country is supposed to be about. It should make you sick to your stomach that our government would take others' liberty to fool you into thinking you have your own.

I didn't realize Iraqis where American citizens.

[kingkilburn]

Those rights are not given by our constitution. It is safeguarding them against the government taking them from us. Those are human rights.



EDIT:
The FED has done more to devalue the dollar than any other group could ever hope too.



What did Iraq have to do with 9/11? Even the Bush administration said they had nothing to do with it. Are we to punish every country in the world for not stopping it now?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Those rights are not given by our constitution. It is safeguarding them against the government taking them from us. Those are human rights.



EDIT:
The FED has done more to devalue the dollar than any other group could ever hope too.



What did Iraq have to do with 9/11? Even the Bush administration said they had nothing to do with it. Are we to punish every country in the world for not stopping it now?

Why are you "punishing" the US for Sunni's killing Shiites? In your argument Iraq is just as responsible for 9/11 as we are for a marketplace suicide bombing.


No shit the FED is causing inflation - it makes American products more competitive with foreign ones and destabilizes Chinese investments into US debt.

[kingkilburn]

When did I ever say either of those? I specifically said Iraq had nothing to do with it.

[SR240DET]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned religion being an enabler. Innocent casualties are never ok, and should be avoided at all cost.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by SR240DET

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned religion being an enabler. Innocent casualties are never ok, and should be avoided at all cost.

Which they are - but sometimes the technology is a limitation (as in WWII) or the definition of "Innocent" is not the same (Osama did not consider Wallstreet bankers innocent but actually the enablers)

[kingkilburn]

Comparing an act of terrorism to an act of war is apples to oranges. Osama knew they were innocent and wished to force change through fear of more innocent deaths. The Nazi and Imperial Japanese armies putting military factories beneath schools and hospitals makes loss of innocent life near unavoidable.

[speedracer1610]

I didn't kill anyone.

[kingkilburn]

If you are American people were killed in your name. That is what a democratic republic is all about.

Are you ok with that?

[jvsc91talon]

Originally Posted by s0apgun

you just looooooove to bend words and fill your posts with neurotic fluff. when you can sit behind a keyboard and behave let me know, i'd love to continue to tell you you're wrong.

yes get the fuck out of this country you ingrate, of course our foreign policy is not perfect but you and the media make it seem like we are going out and looking for trouble. thats not the case at ALL and after 8 years in iraq i'd say it was a successful mission and hopefully further progression will occur in iraq through democratic rule. this is 2011 and there is no place for governments on this planet that rule through murder and corruption and strip its citizens of their natural rights as human beings. i believe its not our right to police the world, but our responsibility.

you probably don't agree, and i don't care.

HAHAHA 2nd most ignorant statement in the forum. If you believe this than why are YOU living in America? Have you not read the "Patriot Act" or even the NDAA???

[bb4_96]

You could literally make this the longest thread on Zilvia. Every day every party concerned could read up a little more history to post a little tidbit to thwart the opposing position. Or we can realize that this country has been decided for by individuals just like us all. With hugely, widely, radically opposing opinions (kinda what makes a politician a politician). So our history, recent and otherwise, will always be a huge clusterfuck of opposing opinions each posing it's source of ammunition for an opposing side.

I hope if i were getting my ass kicked by some psycho someone would come to my aid. On the other hand I'd be upset if I helped somebody out and I had to pay the price.

That simple argument can be argued all day, thats what it all boils down to. I find it a little silly it's turned into a history book bro down. Every facet of every conflict, military, political, socialogical, economical, demographical, emotional. Seriously? That coupled with the fact that not being around for half the conflicts cited makes passing judgement from our shoes seem a little asinine. It's like saying that the pension system of the previous generation is a good idea. I bet it looked great when it was first implemented, then we lived longer, the funds were borrowed against, payments in werent adjusted for times, linear levels of prosperity were assumed. Now it's a huge weight for the economy, but then it looked good.

hindsight...

[ralphandthequeen]

are these numbers casualties of war or legit US killings? big difference.. js

[Walperstyle]

^To the hipsters that make these fell good posters, it doesn't matter. Its easy to pull numbers from anywhere and say who is to blame.

There is thousands, literally Thousands of websites of people that sit at a computer and try to calculate figures. Most of these figures are made up of people that were not there. Any and all Media is Biased, no matter what they say otherwise. Yet people will link stats to other websites, and if enough people link to the same website, then hey, its got to be a credible source of information.

sorry if i'm striking a cord, but if many of you 'Researchers' and 'free thinkers' would spend more time attacking the real killers like Cancer, and Heart Disease, we'd be a society of 'winners'.

[kingkilburn]

A society of winners that will go to any lengths to defend stomping all over the globe fucking shit up for every one.

[KiLLeR2001]

Amazing people still believe Al Qaeda is responsible for 9/11. Two biggest threats to this world, Israel and the bankers in control of the FED.

[redline racer510]

Originally Posted by KiLLeR2001

Amazing people still believe Al Qaeda is responsible for 9/11. Two biggest threats to this world, Israel and the bankers in control of the FED.

+1 Has Israel helped us with Iraq,Afghanistan do they really stand by us or are they the "kid that lives with his rich parents". We have been supporting them for 40+ years are they independent yet? Look at every major terrorist cell in the middle east and the reason for them attacking us and other countries is because we support them. I would like to hear opinion on this please educate me.

[KiLLeR2001]

The reason why we continue to support Israel is because of the small group of individuals in control of our money supply. The government will tell you they are our most important Allies, but these people hate our guts especially since the majority of us do not share the same religious views.

America does all the brute force work, and Israel is the mastermind twiddling its fingers in the background saying "Excellent.", like Mr. Burns from the Simpsons. The countries of the middle east are aware of this which is why they don't like us. It's impossible to get correct information from the media, they will tell you terrorists of XYZ middle eastern country you've never heard of before are the cause, which in turn promotes Americans involvement in war.

They've been doing it since the beginning of time. See: Panic of 1907, WWI, Great Depression, WW2, Vietnam, and finally 9/11.

[Walperstyle]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

A society of winners that will go to any lengths to defend stomping all over the globe fucking shit up for every one.

well at least you know you suck, now do something about it.

[kingkilburn]

You can have that "winning" all to yourself.

If you really want to make this a better place you should stop imposing your will through violence.

[Toi]

I love made up numbers, can we include the folks killed by Mongolians, and the EYE witness accounts of the slaughter during the crusades?

[Walperstyle]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

You can have that "winning" all to yourself.

If you really want to make this a better place you should stop imposing your will through violence.

Try to make sense please.

[kingkilburn]

Seriously?

Fuck off. Quit bumping old shit just to try and get under my skin.