coilovers not rotating at camber plate?

[Munch]

ok, so ive been searching for like a week for this, and normally i wouldnt post, which explains my low post count, but this is starting to bug the crap out of me.

I installed some stance coilovers on my s13 about two weeks ago, and i love em, but the front ones are giving my some problems.

for instance, when u turn the steering wheel, where is the coilover supposed to rotate?

Ide imagine it rotates in the ball joint or whatever in the camber plate, but mine is just rotating around the bottom of the spring. The spring perch and lock are locked to the body of the coilover, but the spring doesnt rotate, it stays still and the perch rotates underneath it.

(i just lifted the dust boot, and saw the threaded body of the coilover is rotating around the piston, while the piston stays stationary.)

It bugs me while driving because it makes a springy noise while turning, as if you hit the spring with something hard. (i know other people have had the same noise, found them in search)

When i first started getting this sound, i found a thread where someone suggested tightening the top nut on the coilover, which i found was pretty loose, so i tightened it. The sound went away, but now its come back. I cant really tighten the top nut any more cause it wont move. can it be too tight?

Should i perhaps just lube the ball joint or whatever up top?

I can get a video of it doing its thing if it'll help decipher my problem.

[Gearhead_42]

Originally Posted by Munch

for instance, when u turn the steering wheel, where is the coilover supposed to rotate?

Ide imagine it rotates in the ball joint or whatever in the camber plate, but mine is just rotating around the bottom of the spring. The spring perch and lock are locked to the body of the coilover, but the spring doesnt rotate, it stays still and the perch rotates underneath it.

(i just lifted the dust boot, and saw the threaded body of the coilover is rotating around the piston, while the piston stays stationary.)

When i first started getting this sound, i found a thread where someone suggested tightening the top nut on the coilover, which i found was pretty loose, so i tightened it. The sound went away, but now its come back. I cant really tighten the top nut any more cause it wont move. can it be too tight?

Should i perhaps just lube the ball joint or whatever up top?

From my experience, try two things..

First, zip the top nuts a bit tighter with an air impact... you really can't torque those top nuts correctly without something to stop the shaft from turning, so that's the next best thing.

Second, you need some preload on your front springs. Two full turns at a minimum, assuming your stance are threaded like my KTS... just back the lower perch down, run it up snug on the spring by hand, then use the perch spanner to give it two more full turns. The spring should NOT rotate on the perch when turning your wheels...

As far as lube? Not sure, depend on the materials involved... maybe someone with more experience with stance can chime in?

[sean350z]

That's exactly what I would do....

Preload the springs slightly (basically until you can not move the spring on the perch)
Tighten top nut if preloading doesn't help.

[Munch]

ah, i guess i forgot to mention i already have some preload...probly around 1cm of preload measuring from where the perch touched the spring to where the perch is now. Not really sure how many turns that was, but it was a few.

[McRussellPants]

They'll do that when new.


eventually the heim loosens up and it will spin there.

[95Blue240sx]

On my tein HA there were some thin plates on top of the spring and between the camber plate. I kind forgot to put them in and now mine do this too. I was kinda worried about it cause i need to raise my car a little so there will not be as much preload as before. I guess I can always take it apart and put them in

[jmauld]

Originally Posted by Gearhead_42

From my experience, try two things..

First, zip the top nuts a bit tighter with an air impact... you really can't torque those top nuts correctly without something to stop the shaft from turning, so that's the next best thing.

That's an EXTREMELY, (LET ME EMPHASIZE EXTREMELY) BAD thing to do to a strut.

[gotta240]

Fuck...you beat me to it....

DON'T FUCKING IMPACT THE TOP NUT... Does it say to do that in ANY manual for ANY strut you have ever seen?!?

[reaxion]

just got my stances 2 weeks ago, they did it after I first put them in.

they do it no more.

[Clawhammer]

My stances did it randomly when I first got them. Like if I turned the wheel all they way on a really cold day. Other than that they're fine.

[Munch]

Ok, so i think every time the spring shifts, its messing with my preload....or causing the spring to get wound up and try to rotate the caliper. When i turn and the spring moves, the car will start pulling in the direction i turned. If i turn the other way, it'll pull that way.

[gotta240]

Originally Posted by Munch

When i turn and the spring moves, the car will start pulling in the direction i turned. If i turn the other way, it'll pull that way.

Lol... So let me get this strait... When you turn the wheel one way, the car goes that way? Holy shit, something is horribly wrong!!! lol... Sorry, i know what you mean but the description sounded funny. I usually expect the car to turn the way i turn the wheel.

[98koukile]

so theoretically if you turn it back straight, it'll keep going straight... no problems, just let them break in

[Munch]

well, sort of. After i turn and straighten the wheel, the car will keep pulling in the direction i just turned, even though the wheel is straight. Yknow, as if my alignment was jacked up (which it is, but isn't the cause of the pulling).

[Gearhead_42]

Originally Posted by jmauld

That's an EXTREMELY, (LET ME EMPHASIZE EXTREMELY) BAD thing to do to a strut.

When Munch says:

When i first started getting this sound, i found a thread where someone suggested tightening the top nut on the coilover, which i found was pretty loose, so i tightened it. The sound went away, but now its come back. I cant really tighten the top nut any more cause it wont move. can it be too tight?

he obviously has had the top nut loosen on him, yes? Since you can't torque a strut nut without holding the shaft fixed, a light application of impact is a good way to snug the nut. Notice I did not tell him to get the biggest impact he could find and torque the piss out of the thing till the piston shaft spins like a top...

If you have a reliable DIY method to grip the piston shaft without damaging it, please post it so we can use your method next time.

[jmauld]

Originally Posted by Gearhead_42

When Munch says:



he obviously has had the top nut loosen on him, yes? Since you can't torque a strut nut without holding the shaft fixed, a light application of impact is a good way to snug the nut. Notice I did not tell him to get the biggest impact he could find and torque the piss out of the thing till the piston shaft spins like a top...

If you have a reliable DIY method to grip the piston shaft without damaging it, please post it so we can use your method next time.

Good shocks come with a smaller nut built into the top of the strut shaft. That's the proper way to tighten them. When I've used struts that didn't have that feature, I always retightened the upper nut after a few drives and I've never had them work their way loose afterwards.

If you impact the top nut, you risk damaging the seal that keeps the struts from leaking. If the strut has an adjuster mechanism that is accessible from the top of the strut, then you also risk breaking that rod that runs through the shaft.

To the original poster. The top hat needs to be able to rotate without binding. Jack the car up and watch your suspension as the steering wheel turns, you'll see why. If it's binding, something is wrong, and needs to be fixed since you could also be binding the strut shaft.

[Munch]

Ok so im getting pretty ticked off at these things.

After searching the other day for like 2 hours on various forums, i found a few suggesting lubing the ball joint at the top. So today i bought some white lithium grease and lubed up both ball joints pretty well...moved the strut around while it was still attached to the top so i could get at all of the ball joints.

The strut is still refusing to rotate at the ball joint, and instead, the threaded shock body rotates around the piston.

Im beginning to think ide be better off just trying to get another pair for the front.

[Chez]

have you contacted the manufacturer or atleast the distributer...they may have some recommendations for you also this way they are aware of the problem and will be more apt to suit your needs if you are unhappy after a few attempts at solving the issue. just some food for thought -Chez

BTW: I rebuild motorcycle forks at work all the time and I use a 3/8 cordless impact to take them apart as well as tighten them back up and as long as your carefull around the dampening rod you will have no ill affects. just as long as you dont sit there and spin the shaft once the nut is tight. just give it a few short bursts about a second long...that is if the person you talk to says to try and tighten the upper nut...

[93 240 s13]

my Stance's sometimes make the sprighy noise during slow turns...

also i cant seem to loosen the actual coilover to try to lower it... its jammed
that spanner wrenches bend so i tried usuing some channel locks, and still cant get them to turn... idont nkow if i like stance coil overs anymore ;(

[Gearhead_42]

Originally Posted by jmauld

Good shocks come with a smaller nut built into the top of the strut shaft. That's the proper way to tighten them. When I've used struts that didn't have that feature, I always retightened the upper nut after a few drives and I've never had them work their way loose afterwards.

Ahh, that makes perfect sense if your struts have a second nut, cool.

Originally Posted by Chez

BTW: I rebuild motorcycle forks at work all the time and I use a 3/8 cordless impact to take them apart as well as tighten them back up and as long as your carefull around the dampening rod you will have no ill affects. just as long as you dont sit there and spin the shaft once the nut is tight. just give it a few short bursts about a second long...

That's pretty much what I was getting at, Chez said it better though. Glad I'm not as crazy as I thought :lol:

[Munch]

Ok...so running more then a few mm of preload is for losers.

I emailed stance the other day to see if they could suggest something to help me out. In their meager 3 sentence reply, they suggested i torque the top nut to 55 lbs, and that the coilovers dont need any preload.

I had about 1cm of preload, so today i torqued the top not properly, and set the preload to maybe 2mm from when the mounts contact the spring.

Afterwards, the annoying spring noise was reduced. The noise isnt completely gone, just masked somewhat. Because of the less preload, there isn't as much pressure on the spring when it jumps in the perches, so it doesnt make as much noise.

At least now i can drive my car without feeling like a dingus everytime i turn with that stupid loud popping noise. The front of the car also feels a bit softer now, not to mention i think it got even lower.

Im still concerned that the ball joint still wont rotate, and the threaded body is still rotating around the stationary piston, but i cant think of anything else that could possibly fix my problem.

BTW, for people looking for how to torque the top nut without the piston spinning. The way i did it was i got one of my spanner wrenches, put it in position on the upper spring perch, and wedged it up against the wall of the area where the shock goes. The wrench stops the piston from rotating so u can torque away.

[D1GP]

just something you may want to check is the how your struts are going through the 3 holes up top. if you look at it closely, there is only one way to correctly put it in, i havent checked to see if it will go in any other way but it is worth a shot checking them. hopefully this made sense.

[240love]

hope the ones i bought dont do that

[logik23]

Mine do it to, I've only had them in for 5 days or so and have only driven abour 300miles on them, but they make the sound, I checked them and same thing, the shock rotates instead of the pillowball mount. Also, my mounts were extremily stiff when I first got them, I couldn't barely move it even when the top plate was bolted to to the car.

[D1GP]

ive been daily driving on them for the past 3 months or so and they still make the sound. ive tried everything i could think of to remedy it, but it is still terrible. im still waiting for stance to get back to me which has almost been a week now... needless to say, fuck the hype, i'm never buying anything of theirs again.

[logik23]

How can they sell us this crap? We should start a class action law-suit.

[chuonthis]

Installed my GR+Pros this weekend and they are doing the same thing. Lubed the ball joints with lithium grease with no improvement. Springs are preloaded two full turns, as specified in the provided instruction sheet. Still need to torque the top nut. I'll post an update if I see any changes.

Do all Stance coilovers do this or are we just getting a bad batch?

Also, as far as impacting the top nut, I'm not saying I'm for or against it, but SPL's instructions for their KTS coilovers say to impact it on a light setting: http://www.splparts.com/doc/SPLCoilover/default.htm

[D1GP]

Originally Posted by chuonthis

Do all Stance coilovers do this or are we just getting a bad batch?

seems like a good number of the later models are doing this.

here is my review that i have done on 240sxf.

Originally Posted by [email protected]

1) the brand & model coilover you run
stance gr+ pro 8/6

2) the type of driving you do
spirited daily driving and touge

3) your feelings/impressions about them
very good quality only thing i dont like is the noise from the springs rotating in the perch on low speed turns. annoying as fuck.

4) are you happy with their customer service?
i was but... when i first got them, 9/7 springs did not come, i contacted autornd and they got me in touch with whoever i needed to talk to. springs were sent. last week, i sent them an email about the noise that won't go away. they recommended that i flip them upside down and if that doesnt fix it, they will send new springs...

EDIT - i flipped the springs like stance recommended but the noise still remained. i contacted them through email (not even asking for the springs they offered because 1. i dont want them to send me anything i didnt need and 2. i knew the spring itself was not the source of the problem.) and asked them whether or not they thought new springs and possibly adding the spacer on top would solve the problem.

a week goes by and i have yet to hear back so i send another email but this time i asked exactly why their coilovers were not rotating at the balljoint and why the shockbody was now spinning which will not allow me to tighten the top nut. i gave them a good 2 weeks before i lost faith.

i followed all procedures before i badmouthed their company. i made sure to deal with them personally and gave them more then adequate time to get it handled (3-4 weeks). from all the positive reviews of their service on zilvia, i was kind of surprised by this. a company that will not even back their product. don't buy into the hype. go kts and deal with kuah who actually gives two shits about his customers.

keep in mind that several other people are having the same noise problem which is a very LOUD groany sound at slow turns. kind of like a power steering rack with low or no fluid at all. it appears that the coilover is not rotating at the balljoint like it should. so i consider this poorly designed, not working properly, and the company refusing to take responsibility for it.

5) where you got them
autornd, great service

6) how much you paid
1200

7) good or bad customer service (if bought from a retailer who is not the manufacturer)
very good service. all pms replied within 24 hours.

this is a members logical input.

Originally Posted by [email protected]

I do get the feeling that they are having a hard time keeping up with supply and demand. I got my Stance well before they blew up on the scene and service was amazing. I honeslty think they dont have the manpower to properly service the needs of all thier customes right now. Last I checked they only had 2 full time tech support guys.

I've heard of your problem on a lot of forums....2 of my friends have the EXACT same problem. It seems like they rushed out some shipments with bad pillow ball joints and now they are trying to keep up with the returns and unhappy customers.

They were back-ordered on parts for months and I figure they cut some corners tring to meet peoples orders. I have heard storys of them not shipping extra spring sets, forgetting to include camber plates, shitty pillowball mounts, etc....imo, just a case of growing too big too fast.

[EchoOfSilence]

Nemeguero has the same problem with his GR+'s, and he bought his months ago.

hmm.

[NemeGuero]

yeah, and have tracked them 2x

I did the 2 turns of preload too.