Journey to hit 430+whp with a T28...Lets find out.

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by idahotuner

i read something about the expansion of the air going out of the intercooler into a 3 inch pipe when it comes in from a smaller pipe also helps drop the temp of the air going into the engine.

i wonder how hard it would be to geta bottom mount tubular manifold and weld o na External gate flange up a in the same location as on a top mount manifold seems liek it should would good

I strongly don't like this idea because I feel like there is a good chance that when you do this, there is a chance of significantly reducing backpressure on one cylinder more than another, potentially leaning that cylinder out.

Or if you install it, and then tune, you could be losing power bc maybe you are tuning according to knock on the one cylinder that is flowing more than the others.

I think setups with a flange off of the collector or off of the housing (even better) would be safer.

Just my 2 cents.

[idahotuner]

when i said in the same location as on a top mount manifold, i mean off the collector. just tlike 2 inches above where the custom exhuast housing will put it. on an equal length header it would be equal distance from every valve so it shouldnt have any effect.



put it at the same spot on this manifold.

[jspaeth]

I am probably being paranoid, but even in that synapse manifold, it looks like the wastegate would be pulling air more from cylinders 2 and 3 bc of where it is.

I REALLY like the idea of having the wastegate flange on the housing :-)

[idahotuner]

yeah i think its a cool set up. i want to see the pics of fitment. i was just thinking for welding on the 38mm waste gate flange instead of running a 44 cause those wastegates arnt cheap.

[S13 curtis]

I just purchased these from JEGS, should come in a couple days

Order Details
Qty Part Number Item Price Total
1 027-15633 Aeromotive 15633 - Aeromotive Fuel Pressure Gauges

Fuel Pressure Gauge
0-100psi
$29.99 $29.99
1 027-13159 Aeromotive 13159 - Aeromotive A1000-6 Injected Bypass Regulator

A1000 -6 Injected Bypass Regulator
30 to 70 PSI
Platinum Series
$177.99 $177.99
1 361-581406 Earl's 581406 - Earl's ''AN'' Aluminum Port (''O'' Ring Seal) Plugs

-6AN Port Plug with O-Ring Seal $4.99 $4.99
Subtotal:$212.97Processing Fee:$13.99Shipping:$0.00Total:$226.96

then im going to need to get steel braided lines for the Rail and the FPR and thats all for the fuel set up. when it come in i will post up pics.

[idahotuner]

isnt it crazy how the smaller things add up to 250 dollars almost. when doing a build you have to budget them in as one of the most expensive things. people always price out the big things but itss the little ones that will break you

[S13 curtis]

this just came in yesterday:




Aeromotive A1000 platinum edition FPR


Sorry for the cell phone pics.

pipes come in sometime tomorrow according to UPS.

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

I am probably being paranoid, but even in that synapse manifold, it looks like the wastegate would be pulling air more from cylinders 2 and 3 bc of where it is.

I REALLY like the idea of having the wastegate flange on the housing :-)

The location of the wastegate isn't going to "pull" more air from cyl's 2 and 3. Each runner pulses the same amount theoretically, this can change based on cyl health. But you are forcing air out of that port. Air travels in the path of least resistance, so it's going to want to go out of the port regardless of where it's mounted. The same amount of air is going to leave once the gate opens and stays open to bleed off the manifold pressure. There's really a minimal chance of "leaning" out a cyl because too much air is coming out of the wastegate port. You just won't make boost.

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by S13 curtis

I just purchased these from JEGS, should come in a couple days

Order Details
Qty Part Number Item Price Total
1 027-15633 Aeromotive 15633 - Aeromotive Fuel Pressure Gauges

Fuel Pressure Gauge
0-100psi
$29.99 $29.99
1 027-13159 Aeromotive 13159 - Aeromotive A1000-6 Injected Bypass Regulator

A1000 -6 Injected Bypass Regulator
30 to 70 PSI
Platinum Series
$177.99 $177.99
1 361-581406 Earl's 581406 - Earl's ''AN'' Aluminum Port (''O'' Ring Seal) Plugs

-6AN Port Plug with O-Ring Seal $4.99 $4.99
Subtotal:$212.97Processing Fee:$13.99Shipping:$0.00Total:$226.96

then im going to need to get steel braided lines for the Rail and the FPR and thats all for the fuel set up. when it come in i will post up pics.

Should've just bought a Sard...

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

The location of the wastegate isn't going to "pull" more air from cyl's 2 and 3. Each runner pulses the same amount theoretically, this can change based on cyl health. But you are forcing air out of that port. Air travels in the path of least resistance, so it's going to want to go out of the port regardless of where it's mounted. The same amount of air is going to leave once the gate opens and stays open to bleed off the manifold pressure. There's really a minimal chance of "leaning" out a cyl because too much air is coming out of the wastegate port. You just won't make boost.

You are saying each runner pulse the same amount, which I am saying is not necessarily true.

What I am saying, is if the wastegate flange is too much "in line" with one runner over another, and if flow out of the wastegate offers less resistance than flow through the turbine housing, then theoretically, there could be less back pressure on the cylinders whose runners' flow exits directly perpendicular to the wastegate flange opening.

Again, this is theoretical, but I would be interested to see individual pressure in each runner under normal conditions and then with this setup.


EDIT: I reread your post, and I don't think you are getting my point. My point/hypothesis is that wastegate flange location can preferentially reduce backpressure on one cylinder over another, allowing that cylinder to flow more freely

[codyace]

On the OEM manifolds we source right off the top of the manifold, venting cylinders 1 and 4 only. Never had an issue, and even never even a heat difference when checking with a thermo gun.

Sure it sounds wrong, and it may be for a professional race car, but you gotta thing, it's almost 'venting' in both aspects...as when that gate opens you're not loosing any boost ya know? I can see what you mean by allowing lets say 1-4 to breath freely as it's venting, but when the other two cylinders aren't fighting the backpressure from the other two, wouldn't they flow also the same?

[codyace]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

Should've just bought a Sard...

Same difference with the Aeromotive really.


In reality, Nismo FPR would have been the cheapest and best 'fit' assuming the rail had a provision for it.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by idahotuner

isnt it crazy how the smaller things add up to 250 dollars almost. when doing a build you have to budget them in as one of the most expensive things. people always price out the big things but itss the little ones that will break you

For damn sure.

I always laugh at kids who say 'oh i acn turbo my XXX for 2000 bucks'

And I think yea....with stock junk

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

You are saying each runner pulse the same amount, which I am saying is not necessarily true.

What I am saying, is if the wastegate flange is too much "in line" with one runner over another, and if flow out of the wastegate offers less resistance than flow through the turbine housing, then theoretically, there could be less back pressure on the cylinders whose runners' flow exits directly perpendicular to the wastegate flange opening.

Again, this is theoretical, but I would be interested to see individual pressure in each runner under normal conditions and then with this setup.


EDIT: I reread your post, and I don't think you are getting my point. My point/hypothesis is that wastegate flange location can preferentially reduce backpressure on one cylinder over another, allowing that cylinder to flow more freely

I didn't say they did, I said theoretically they do. Each cylinder's VE differs from the one next to it because of differences in intake/exhaust runner lengths and such.

I didn't miss your point. Think of where each runner joins up as a collector instead of an individual ex runner. So, as a collector, all cyl's dump into it and essentially reduce backpressure to all cyl's not just one. The side with the gate may see a bit higher reduction in backpressure, but it's not going to be a significant difference between the other two ex runners. Only "true" twinscrolls will have cyl's paired up, hence why the majority of them run twin wastegates.

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

I didn't say they did, I said theoretically they do. Each cylinder's VE differs from the one next to it because of differences in intake/exhaust runner lengths and such.

I didn't miss your point. Think of where each runner joins up as a collector instead of an individual ex runner. So, as a collector, all cyl's dump into it and essentially reduce backpressure to all cyl's not just one. The side with the gate may see a bit higher reduction in backpressure, but it's not going to be a significant difference between the other two ex runners. Only "true" twinscrolls will have cyl's paired up, hence why the majority of them run twin wastegates.

Okay, I'm glad you understood what I meant...I am probably just overanalyzing the situation....and the effects I am mentioning are probably not very large then.

[BiG MiKE86]

less parts - more turbo fitment! Naoooooooo

[BiG MiKE86]

that new MV-R 44mm Wastegate has been released. Not sure if u already posted a wastegate but this looks promising

Please update!

[S13 curtis]

Originally Posted by BiG MiKE86

that new MV-R 44mm Wastegate has been released. Not sure if u already posted a wastegate but this looks promising

Please update!

yea i posted a wastegate a couple pages back i already have a Tial V44 BNIB but if it dosent fit i will get the MV-R and if that dosent work something is getting banged in lol j/k this stuff should fit. but anyways im told by my buddy that the turbo will be mounted up sunday which should be tomorrow and the steel braided lines and stuff for the fuel rail should be complete and let me tell you those steel braided lines and fitting are no joke they're expensive i paid for them 2 days ago, my wife picked them up for me at Murrays speed shop. but yea My 3'' pipes also came in and ive got a crappy pics of when the cams and RAS were installed. 1000cc injectors w/Rail should be also installed. I will also be purchasing K sport control pro's from Swapped on the 1st.





My Hybrid GT2871r .72

[jspaeth]

ah you are such a tease!!!!!

I NEED to see that turbo mounted up to the exhaust mani and then if there is enough room to squeeze an MV-R on there!!!!!

[BiG MiKE86]

im soo jealous right now...

[S13 curtis]

Originally Posted by BiG MiKE86

im soo jealous right now...

Dont be, im pretty pissed, well i got some pics up but i will need the MV-R 44, the regular V44 is too big so either im going to Bang it in with some hammer time or cut out a bit of the strut tower. Or i can get a 90* flange out on it. geeshh im frustrated.....



Compressor housing came close to the Cusco motor mounts but it fit very tight lol.



And here is the pic that erked me sigh.....



but whatever i will update when i find out a solution unless you guys could think of one. im deff not putting the .64 back on.

[jspaeth]

Curtis....

can I ask you a HUGE favor, por favor (and I think it will help a whole bunch of others as well)


Is there ANY way you could (or your buddy) mock up the turbo on the OEM log manifold, just so we can see how close the wastegate flange sits to the firewall/strut tower area?

If the lines aren't hooked up, this should only take a few minutes and would be a MONSTER favor to all of us waiting to see how this will fit but want to keep the OEM manifold.


PLEASE!?!?!?!?????

EDIT:

BONUS points if you could post pics of a measurement (ruler or tape measure) from the wastegate flange to the nearest obstruction!!!!!! (with turbo on OEM exhaust mani)

[S13 curtis]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

Curtis....

can I ask you a HUGE favor, por favor (and I think it will help a whole bunch of others as well)


Is there ANY way you could (or your buddy) mock up the turbo on the OEM log manifold, just so we can see how close the wastegate flange sits to the firewall/strut tower area?

If the lines aren't hooked up, this should only take a few minutes and would be a MONSTER favor to all of us waiting to see how this will fit but want to keep the OEM manifold.


PLEASE!?!?!?!?????

EDIT:

BONUS points if you could post pics of a measurement (ruler or tape measure) from the wastegate flange to the nearest obstruction!!!!!! (with turbo on OEM exhaust mani)

I will definately get a pic for you guys with the measureing tape but i think im just going to purchase 2 V band flanges and make a 90* angle and then put it on it should work fine then, i was about to give up and get a Mazworks T3 manifold and a .82 hotside and try to get around the 460 range with E-85 and decent timing i think its possiable would prolly suite the Tomei 270's better also.

About the OEM manifold ill contact my buddy and see if he can get a mock up with my stock manifold. I'm actually thinking about selling the megan manifold with the EWG V44 housing i dont really have the time to have something made for the wastegate .

[S13 curtis]

Im probly going this route with a Twin scroll T3 Manifold

GT28RS/2871R 0.82 A/R T3 DIVIDED Turbine Housing : atpturbo.com

pricey but i like to be different. I will most likely end up selling the .72 backside with manifold and megan elbow for dirt cheap.

[jspaeth]

Well, I am REALLY curious to see if it fits with that housing on a stock manifold and MV-R.

Until you measure, no one knows. And since you already have the parts, it is your duty to your fellow Zilivians to mock it up on the stock mani and take the measurement...

Seriously, pleaseeeeeeee?


anyway, I am hoping (but not sure why it would be so) that the exhaust mani flange for the oem manifold may sit closer to the motor than the tubular you have.

[BiG MiKE86]

It looks like the MV-R is going to come in a hair under 4". Please post a pic with a reference dimension if you can. And if your lookin to sell that housing LMK! I will take it

[idahotuner]

send me a PM when you decided to post the stuff

[jspaeth]

Ahhh the suspense! Curtis, I need pics son!

[BiG MiKE86]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

Ahhh the suspense! Curtis, I need pics son!

x1000000000000000000000 bazillion

[jspaeth]

Ahhhhhhhhhh need measurements brahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh