What standalone ecu do u recomend?!?!

[RB25GUY]

Originally Posted by slider2828

Well you need to run a datalogit with this display. So technically it logs the data and can run it back on the display. But that is an example of the output of a potential real time display solution for the powerfc.

this is awesome, Thanks for sharing man!

[KAT-PWR]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

AEM Infinity + CanBus + BTI Can gauge or any canbus display. Real time every parameter the ecu sees.


The Infinity ECU can basically tell you what to change to optimize the tune.

Retail 2.3 million for that set up?

Just checked, yikes 2k and you're not even rolling yet

[RB25GUY]

Originally Posted by KAT-PWR

Retail 2.3 million for that set up?

Just checked, yikes 2k and you're not even rolling yet

im good with my st8100, Power FC and greddy gauges and a extra grand or so that i have in my pocket from not buying that ecu...

[KAT-PWR]

With how cheap tablets are now for $100 you can have realtime full ecu gauge display.... and you get a tablet you can use for other stuff if you have Nismotronics

[slider2828]

Any wireless usage for gauges has a lag in it. With datalogit and raspexi you can configure the screen anyway you want, no lag, and log all at the same time.

[Kingtal0n]

On a budget, Power FC is ideal. I grab mine for $350 in ebay. If you know what you are doing, very easy to tune.

[jr_ss]

I'm not sure why people are still suggesting 20yr old technology to run high hp motors these days. If you've spent some cash on your motor/setup, it behooves you to spend the additional money to get an adequate EMS. PFCs and ROM tunes have their place on mildly modified/stock cars, but they do not belong in something making decent power. There are so many more affordable options available with far more processing power and I/Os to setup anything function you want.

[TheRealSy90]

Originally Posted by KAT-PWR

Retail 2.3 million for that set up?

Just checked, yikes 2k and you're not even rolling yet

Almost anybody should be able to purchase an Infinity EMS for under MSRP. Lets say sub 1,400. A wiring harness from WS is 600. So 2 grand and you're rolling with an Infinity EMS.


The BTI Canbus gauge is $350 I believe. But it's not a necessity. Hell if you have an Infinity hooked up to the proper sensors, and failsafes enabled properly, there's really no need to have any gauges at all unless you want to monitor stuff that it's already monitoring.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

I'm not sure why people are still suggesting 20yr old technology to run high hp motors these days. If you've spent some cash on your motor/setup, it behooves you to spend the additional money to get an adequate EMS. PFCs and ROM tunes have their place on mildly modified/stock cars, but they do not belong in something making decent power. There are so many more affordable options available with far more processing power and I/Os to setup anything function you want.

sr20 = not a high hp motor (and if it is, you have bigger problems)

I'd rather spend $800 on a 5.3L from a van than $1800 on a computer for a 2.0L. Money spent wisely gives a higher HP to $$ ratio. The right stock 5.3 Will hold 500-600RWHP reliably for many years, in a 240sx chassis. If I can hold 650rwhp down with a $350 computer in a plug-and-play sequential application, then just to even THINK of suggesting that we need a $2000 computer for some reason, better have double or triple that power. Sequential is Sequential, its not like spending more on the computer is going to make the engine run much better at wide open throttle when it comes down to it, they do the same thing.

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

sr20 = not a high hp motor (and if it is, you have bigger problems)

You're right, an SR in factory or BPU trim isn't. When you start pushing 5-600crank hp, it is. Having a means to monitor and protect your investment is what upgrading to a quality EMS is all about, regardless of the amount of power you're making. You don't see your beloved 2j making gobs of power on a stock EMS do you? We don't care if you live or die in your stock, don't upgrade anything mentality and world, but leave your bible thumping 2j rhetoric out of this thread.

[KAT-PWR]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Almost anybody should be able to purchase an Infinity EMS for under MSRP. Lets say sub 1,400. A wiring harness from WS is 600. So 2 grand and you're rolling with an Infinity EMS.


The BTI Canbus gauge is $350 I believe. But it's not a necessity. Hell if you have an Infinity hooked up to the proper sensors, and failsafes enabled properly, there's really no need to have any gauges at all unless you want to monitor stuff that it's already monitoring.

pricey for the bare min

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

You're right, an SR in factory or BPU trim isn't. When you start pushing 5-600crank hp, it is. Having a means to monitor and protect your investment is what upgrading to a quality EMS is all about, regardless of the amount of power you're making. You don't see your beloved 2j making gobs of power on a stock EMS do you? We don't care if you live or die in your stock, don't upgrade anything mentality and world, but leave your bible thumping 2j rhetoric out of this thread.

a 5.3L is an LSx V8, not a 2jz. I never mentioned the 2jz. That said, yes I've also been able to keep 2jz-gte engines at 500~rwhp using a stock computer and a SAFC, as well as stock 5.3L LSx can keep the OEM ECU (HPtuner is preferable over say, megasquirt) at 800rwhp or better. Since the OEM computer of the 2jz uses a map sensor and comes factory with a turbo, the timing is relatively 'safe' at moderate boost pressures since there is little difference in timing between 12 and 18psi of boost, although methanol injection is highly recommended.

Furthermore, you might not realize this but the sr20det is very similar to the 2jz-gte, both are 86x86mm engines and both use a 8.5:1 compression factory cast aluminum piston, & hemispherical combustion chamber.

No sr20 should be pushed beyond 400rwhp when there are engines available for less cost that will support more power. Unless you have a specific reason to hold on dearly to the sr20- it just doesn't make any sense to use a 2.0L, to "build" a 2.0L of any kind. I am only a fan of stock components when they suit the application. If I want 800rwhp and there were no stock engines to hold that kind of power with reasonable cost, sure build it. But don't build the smallest engine you can find that will work, always build the largest.

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

2jz-gte engines at 500~rwhp using a stock computer and a SAFC

You just solidified my arguement with those 5 words... Yes, it can be done, but at what cost? You think I'm going to throw thousands into a motor setup and tune it with a computer signal manipulator so everything "appears" to play nice together? You're even crazier than I pegged you for.

Not to mention, we aren't discussing what your opinion is in regards to what motor should do what. No body cares what power level you think a motor should live and thrive at. We as a car people/culture like to push boundaries. Playing it "safe" will never open the door for progression.

Seriously though, dude wants to run a standalone EMS on an RB setup, let him spend his money how he sees fit. Quit pounding the LSX and 2j shit down people's throats. Who cares if they make more power with less parts. The fact is, any setup requires monetary deposits to go fast, so spend YOUR money on what you want and keep YOUR motor swap ideas to yourself or build one so you can play with it.

With that said, my vote is Haltech. Built and designed around ALL Nissan factory sensors. No CAS wheel modification and PnP setups for various chassis'.

[soundboy]

Haltech gets my vote, but speak to a tuner. Unless you tuning yourself. Doesnt make sense going with something that the tuner cant tune.

SAFC and powerfc has their place in the ecu/piggyback world but once you start getting into it , these quickly arnt enough.

[KAT-PWR]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

a 5.3L is an LSx V8, not a 2jz. I never mentioned the 2jz. That said, yes I've also been able to keep 2jz-gte engines at 500~rwhp using a stock computer and a SAFC, as well as stock 5.3L LSx can keep the OEM ECU (HPtuner is preferable over say, megasquirt) at 800rwhp or better. Since the OEM computer of the 2jz uses a map sensor and comes factory with a turbo, the timing is relatively 'safe' at moderate boost pressures since there is little difference in timing between 12 and 18psi of boost, although methanol injection is highly recommended.

Furthermore, you might not realize this but the sr20det is very similar to the 2jz-gte, both are 86x86mm engines and both use a 8.5:1 compression factory cast aluminum piston, & hemispherical combustion chamber.

Originally Posted by jr_ss

You just solidified my arguement with those 5 words... Yes, it can be done, but at what cost? You think I'm going to throw thousands into a motor setup and tune it with a computer signal manipulator so everything "appears" to play nice together? You're even crazier than I pegged you for.

Not to mention, we aren't discussing what your opinion is in regards to what motor should do what. No body cares what power level you think a motor should live and thrive at. We as a car people/culture like to push boundaries. Playing it "safe" will never open the door for progression.

did you just skip the whole part where he dropped basis for his suggestions?

I do agree with you here (fig.2)

[TheRealSy90]

Infinity works with the stock sr20 CAS wheel. Not that loosening and tightening three screws is a big deal to change the wheel..

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Infinity works with the stock sr20 CAS wheel. Not that loosening and tightening three screws is a big deal to change the wheel..

Valid point, but why diminish the resolution of the factory sensor?

[ADIDASilvias]

Link G4+ plug in - will do everything a Haltech can and the price point is hard to beat if you find the right seller on eBay (performance_downunder). Link is a NZ company, but the eBay seller has it listed in AUD. With the strong USD to AUD exchange ratio I got mine for $1167 shipped, for a NEO GTTLink. The R33 plug in is even less expensive. The interface is very intuitive, and any tuner with experience should be able to tune it as it is close to the Haltech format. It has some extremely nice features for the price, and their forums are very active with Link Reps and they are very good at helping figure out issues.

I originally looked at the PFC L-Jetro, but decided I wanted to go MAP. The PFC D-Jetro for the NEO was $1050, so the minimal bump up in cost resulted in a much better ECU with the Link G4+. The PFC is solid tech, but it is true that it is aging. The Link is cutting edge, and well worth it in my opinion.

Watch some HP Academy videos on the Link, they are very informative.

Just my 2 cents. The AEM and Haltech are also very good.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

You just solidified my arguement with those 5 words... Yes, it can be done, but at what cost? You think I'm going to throw thousands into a motor setup and tune it with a computer signal manipulator so everything "appears" to play nice together? You're even crazier than I pegged you for.

whoa buddy. we use safc on 500rwhp junkyard $1200 longblocks. Not built engines. I never suggested doing it- I was only pointing out, yes it can be done, 10+ years of daily 500rwhp for $150 tune on the OEM ecu is possible with a $1200 longblock 2jz-gte that you brought up to begin with. I NEVER mentioned using an OEM computer on ANYTHING. the Power FC is NOT an OEM computer. You are the one who brought OEM computers into this discussion. I am defending them as viable options in a handful of applications where they are tolerated well but never would have mentioned one to begin with.

Not to mention, we aren't discussing what your opinion is in regards to what motor should do what. No body cares what power level you think a motor should live and thrive at. We as a car people/culture like to push boundaries. Playing it "safe" will never open the door for progression.

When discussing what computer, you ask what engine. lol @ not discussing engines with computers, that makes me laugh. Ok so I want to stand-alone my lawn mower engine, or ATV, but I will fail to mention that when asking for a recommendation here since engine choice doesn't matter apparently.

Seriously though, dude wants to run a standalone EMS on an RB setup, let him spend his money how he sees fit. Quit pounding the LSX and 2j shit down people's throats. Who cares if they make more power with less parts. The fact is, any setup requires monetary deposits to go fast, so spend YOUR money on what you want and keep YOUR motor swap ideas to yourself or build one so you can play with it.

RB26DETT I've tuned to 600rwhp with a $350 power FC. No reason to spend more than that IMO. I can see it doing 1000rwhp without issue.
And here it is:

With that said, my vote is Haltech. Built and designed around ALL Nissan factory sensors. No CAS wheel modification and PnP setups for various chassis'.

I think you just like spending money. Its not like haltech is going to offer a significant advantage over a power FC in a majority of applications, besides a ton of aux inputs/outputs it really has no advantage at moderate power levels. I spent 15 years peering into the dark recess of mysterious computers and found that they all do the same thing, a processor flips a digitial/transistor signal on and off to time the injectors/coils.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by soundboy

Haltech gets my vote, but speak to a tuner. Unless you tuning yourself. Doesnt make sense going with something that the tuner cant tune.

SAFC and powerfc has their place in the ecu/piggyback world but once you start getting into it , these quickly arnt enough.

start naming all the features of the power FC for me. Then do the same and list all the features of, say, AEM or Haltech.

now, circle the critical features, such as datalogging, VE map tuning, closed loop operation, etc...

Whats that? Both ECU have the same identical critical feature lists? So you are telling me that the power-FC is true, full stand-alone ECU, with all required capability of the more expensive AEM for high power cars?

Lets get nitty gritty. How many AEM/Haltech/PFC/MS/etc... have you (and whoever else wants to play) tuned, as of right now, that they can substantiate and validate the claim that the "Power FC wasn't enough"? When has anybody ever had a power FC that "wasn't good enough"? I've never had that happen and I am on PFC car #100+ lost count

[inopsey]

Originally Posted by ADIDASilvias

Link G4+ plug in - will do everything a Haltech can and the price point is hard to beat if you find the right seller on eBay (performance_downunder). Link is a NZ company, but the eBay seller has it listed in AUD. With the strong USD to AUD exchange ratio I got mine for $1167 shipped, for a NEO GTTLink. The R33 plug in is even less expensive. The interface is very intuitive, and any tuner with experience should be able to tune it as it is close to the Haltech format. It has some extremely nice features for the price, and their forums are very active with Link Reps and they are very good at helping figure out issues.

I originally looked at the PFC L-Jetro, but decided I wanted to go MAP. The PFC D-Jetro for the NEO was $1050, so the minimal bump up in cost resulted in a much better ECU with the Link G4+. The PFC is solid tech, but it is true that it is aging. The Link is cutting edge, and well worth it in my opinion.

Watch some HP Academy videos on the Link, they are very informative.

Just my 2 cents. The AEM and Haltech are also very good.

link is absolute garbage from my experience and their customer service leaves something to be desired. bought one of their g4 plug in systems for my car and wouldnt start the car or connect to the laptop right out of the box, brand new ecu. spent a week trying to sort it out with the link rep by email from NZ but still wouldnt start the car or connect to the laptop. (car had ran perfectly fine before). link rep blamed my setup but eventually said to return it to factory for diagnosis. after a while i was told it was a bad ecu and there was a service charge to fix a brand new ecu. luckily i paid with pp and was able to file a claim to get my refund. bought a haltech and it connected to the laptop and started the car on the first attempt. went to the link website to post the issue with their plug in ecu, the post lasted maybe 8 hours.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Infinity works with the stock sr20 CAS wheel. Not that loosening and tightening three screws is a big deal to change the wheel..

aftermarket computers in general have a hard time dealing with the high resolution CAS of the sr20det. Many ECU such as megasquirt will not use it, and stick only to the inner 4 windows for operation. AEM has been known for years to fail when using the OEM cas disc, all kinds of trouble, so much that they now offer their own disc.

Here is one of my first AEM tunes in the sr world
http://www.freshalloy.com/showthread...stock-manifold


I wonder why it is that power FC plugs right in and works using the OEM sr20det disc, whereas all the expensive aftermarket options fall on their faces with it. Is it perhaps, that maybe, the Power FC is a well designed, more well suited, well tested applied research and development for stand-alone engine management for our engines? The power FC is the Japanese "god"'s gift to us, a low cost option presented for JDM engines that the American engines do not have. It is specifically designed for the engine and all of its components- as opposed to being open and generic. Some are taking this gift for granted, shunning it because of it's low cost. How ridiculous!


this thread is alot of fun and I thank those who participate, hope understand Im trying to keep posts short so cutting out words (grammar/punctuation will be affected)

[inopsey]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

start naming all the features of the power FC for me. Then do the same and list all the features of, say, AEM or Haltech.

now, circle the critical features, such as datalogging, VE map tuning, closed loop operation, etc...

Whats that? Both ECU have the same identical critical feature lists? So you are telling me that the power-FC is true, full stand-alone ECU, with all required capability of the more expensive AEM for high power cars?

pfc has one starting/warmup map if i remember correctly, 'cranking fuel'. haltech has several staring/warmup maps. starting the car and warming up the car are imho critical mapping parameters for a reliable oem-like setup. this is just one of the limitations of the pfc.

[hanzbrady]

So, since were just having a pissing contest now, how about Megasquirt? Granted they dont make a PNP for the RB's, but there is one for the SR (yeah like we were all so on topic anyways)

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by inopsey

pfc has one starting/warmup map if i remember correctly, 'cranking fuel'. haltech has several staring/warmup maps. starting the car and warming up the car are imho critical mapping parameters for a reliable oem-like setup. this is just one of the limitations of the pfc.

Oh I completely agree, for the first 3-4 minutes after I start my wildly cammed PFC sr20 car, I need to keep my foot on the gas to keep the RPM slightly higher than it would otherwise be, for peace of mind of course (oil pressure related concerns). This is the only notable drawback to the Power FC that I am aware of (idle speed fluctuations which require elegant solutions).

This is such a small price to pay, I bear it no mind. It isn't worth jumping to a $2000 computer over this 3-4 minutes of holding the gas pedal slightly each morning. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't be driving a wildly modified vehicle.

Furthermore, it isn't the power FC's fault. The Sr20 specifically has a coolant regulated airpath for cold-start situations that is probably adjustable (I haven't gave enough shits to try yet). On my father's car we installed a ball-valve to help with this issue. You could also do any number of other things, i.e. solenoid on a timer, or a switch, or even a vacuum line run into the car you can quickly plug once the engine warms a bit. Again, not a $2000 problem.

[hanzbrady]

Originally Posted by Tyler_240

MS3 PRO....I've been using the DIY MSPNP2 for the SR, friend has the PNP for the KA, and both are running great...I wish I had spent a lil extra + time for the features...jus sayin' https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...lone-ecu-only/

Hey just out of curiousity how are you liking the MS2 PNP? I've had my eyes on it for a while.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by hanzbrady

So, since were just having a pissing contest now, how about Megasquirt? Granted they dont make a PNP for the RB's, but there is one for the SR (yeah like we were all so on topic anyways)

My least favorite computer for daily drivers. I've installed and tuned a couple megasquirt ECU and due to their essence of customization, require many hardware assessments (potentiometer tuning, solder new wires, added capacitors/resistors, signal/trigger and oscilloscope diagnostics).

Here is one of my recent Megasquirt setups
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...486079#p486079


I wouldn't recommend a Megasquirt to a novice unless they also own and know how to use an oscilloscope. If you want a preview just look through the MS forums, of which there are several different versions of forum, for each custom portion of that ECU, and all of which have a dedicated group of electronics experts which are necessary for any person who is new to the hardware aspect to get help. Without those experts many users/owners would be dead in the water. Nobody new to computers is going to randomly "figure out" that they needed a 9.5k resistor between "JP1 and JP2" to attenuate the voltage from the wheel trigger, for example. So it will require research, time, investment of self.

Which is why the PFC is so powerful. No research necessary. No hardware configuration. No trigger signal to fool with. No injector phasing to setup. (You think the AEM or Haltech will come pre-set with the correct phasing? Find out the hard way) Add that to low cost and you have the fundamental recipe for a solid daily driver: KISS.

[Kingtal0n]

Some more examples of recent and old tunes for AEM and PFC

recent PFC tune sr20


video



recent PFC tune 2jz



old skyline PFC GT-R tune



2006 RB26 PFC tune (see above for dyno graph)



The PFC is a full stand-alone with auto-tuning wideband/datalog options, just like the most expensive computer you can buy.

Here we see that I've logged A/F values, and with some simple math in excel (Provided for FREE by the data-logit website for the PFC), the car 'tunes' itself (making % adjustments that fine tune the map without me having to individually program each cell, through using excel)

recent AEM tune 2jz



old AEM tune sr20



Another old AEM sr20 tune
http://www.freshalloy.com/showthread...stock-manifold


Notice they all do the same thing. All the cars drive great, plugs come out looking great, the owners can't tell what the computer is because they all run the same for the most part. The AEM cars get more fine-idle tuning, startup is more sheep friendly. But these arn't vehicles for sheep, so having it startup like a new vette is just a novelty. I hope this has been educational and instructive time well spent.

[smoked240]

I'm almost positive kingtalon is a PFC representative.

[KAT-PWR]

To be fair there are probably a ton of people that paid big bucks for features they'll never use.
Keep it simple.