Does the president's religion matter to you? Why or why not?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by word sux

separation of church and state so who cares what religion the president is



but considering christians are the majority of this nation then I highly doubt we will see a non christian president in our lifetime. Considering the three major ethnic groups (caucasian, hispanic, and african) are mostly christian I can't see it ever happening to be honest.. If there were to be it would most likely be a jewish president.

Please read the whole thread.

[1jzjoey]

Religion is stupid, the bible is a fairy tale only the people who arent complete morons know this. All relegion is good for is wars. The only time i will vote for a president is when he's an athiest and we all know thats never going to happen.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1LLEST.S13

Religion is stupid, the bible is a fairy tale only the people who arent complete morons know this. All relegion is good for is wars. The only time i will vote for a president is when he's an athiest and we all know thats never going to happen.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by 1LLEST.S13

Religion is stupid, the bible is a fairy tale only the people who arent complete morons know this. All relegion is good for is wars. The only time i will vote for a president is when he's an athiest and we all know thats never going to happen.

Yeah, and intolerance. I'd never vote for an intolerant president that doesn't agree with my views exactly. Sarcasm. You are the one in a fairytale if you are willing to dismiss people simply on the basis of faith.

Tribalism, greed, and intolerance predate religion for causes of war. If you believe that atheism would magically solve that then you are no better than religious fanatics that ignore science and history.

[1jzjoey]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

Yeah, and intolerance. I'd never vote for an intolerant president that doesn't agree with my views exactly. Sarcasm. You are the one in a fairytale if you are willing to dismiss people simply on the basis of faith.

Tribalism, greed, and intolerance predate religion for causes of war. If you believe that atheism would magically solve that then you are no better than religious fanatics that ignore science and history.

If there was an athiest president shit would get done. religion and govt should never be mixed.

not saying that but religion is pretty much responsible for most wars and violence. Like the fighting in Jerusalem It's a fight over whether non-Arab or non-Muslims have a right to a secular democracy with them as majority in any part of the Middle East. No religion, No problem.

Originally Posted by Corbic

[usdm180sx]

Just kill the fucking illuminati and give the money to the middle class and poor. The country will be okay

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1LLEST.S13

If there was an athiest president shit would get done. religion and govt should never be mixed.

I totally agree... shit would get done.












Atheism sounds great until you put it into practice. That whole "survival of the fittest", "might makes right" and "for the greater cause" logic isn't so awesome when you are not the winning side.

I'll pass on having Stalin or Mao for president - I'd much rather have Washington or Lincoln. (both very devote religious men).

[1 88 U]

Stalin and Mao used state worship to replace religion to control the masses. It has nothing to do with Atheism and everything to do with power and oppression. I could sit here and bring up an incredibly long list of leaders that where Christian and committed atrocities.

[The Dude]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Atheism sounds great until you put it into practice. That whole "survival of the fittest", "might makes right" and "for the greater cause" logic isn't so awesome when you are not the winning side.

I'll pass on having Stalin or Mao for president - I'd much rather have Washington or Lincoln. (both very devote religious men).

Funny, because that's some of the same logic Christians use to "protect the sanctity of marriage," amongst other ideals.

[terrence]

Originally Posted by Corbic

I totally agree... shit would get done.

[images of hypocrisy ]


Atheism sounds great until you put it into practice. That whole "survival of the fittest", "might makes right" and "for the greater cause" logic isn't so awesome when you are not the winning side.

I'll pass on having Stalin or Mao for president - I'd much rather have Washington or Lincoln. (both very devote religious men).

HAhaha when the fuck did the lack of believing in a deity mean that someone in power will commit genocide and atrocities? I think the body count for religious leaders is quite surpassed that of non-believers. Just because someone does or doesn't believe in a deity doesn't automatically make them an asshole, it just so happens most leaders are asshole's regardless of their status on religion.

I would love to see a president that sides with neither believers or non believers. Because honestly, if it were not for religion there would not have to be non-believers. I just want a rational and logical president with a respect and understanding of scientific literacy. Not one that thinks evolution is a fairy tale made up by scientists to bring down the jesus.

[Matej]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Atheism sounds great until you put it into practice.

How does one put atheism into practice?

Atheism is nothing. Atheism is the lack of religion. 99% of atheists are not the angry type trying to stop kids from reciting the Pledge of Allegiance (ironically, making kids recite a pledge to a nation is about the most communist thing I have encountered, and that is coming from someone who lived in an ex-soviet country) that America portrays them as, but rather wish that everyone would just stop bothering them with such nonsense as religion and let them focus on real-life problems.

If anything, religion is a dictatorship, and the worst kind there is.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by terrence

HAhaha when the fuck did the lack of believing in a deity mean that someone in power will commit genocide and atrocities?

Got any proof to counter that? All I know is that all the Governments in the world that have ever rejected religion as an institution and officially embraced atheistic views are the perpetrators of the greatest human tragedies in the history of humanity.

All your bitching about 11th Century Crusades and gay marriage can't even begin to scratch the surface.

Actually in a world devoid of religion mariage would not exist, it's illogical. So the argument about gay marriage is idiotic.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Matej

How does one put atheism into practice?

Pretty easily.

1. Embrace Science as the only basis of logic, morals and ethics. Natural Selection, Survival and Advancement is all that maters.

2. Security, Rights and Protections come directly from the Government and are guarantied only as far as the Government allows.

3. If it makes logical sense - it is the most moral choice.

So, would you advocate rounding up all the people with Aids in the world and then euthanizing them? No no more infected people the diese will be eradicated - generation after generation will know a life free of this blight. It is the most logical thing you can do...

[terrence]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Got any proof to counter that? All I know is that all the Governments in the world that have ever rejected religion as an institution and officially embraced atheistic views are the perpetrators of the greatest human tragedies in the history of humanity.

All your bitching about 11th Century Crusades and gay marriage can't even begin to scratch the surface.

Actually in a world devoid of religion mariage would not exist, it's illogical. So the argument about gay marriage is idiotic.

Wow, ok; I am an atheist, I do not commit genocide.

What is atheistic values? All atheism is, is the lack of belief in a deity.

Religion has hindered humanity since its conception, violence is just one of many atrocities brought on by the blind faith of religious followers. Rejection of science facts, execution and prosecution of non-believers, people who speak against the church, believe in other religions or don't fall within their own moral construct all suffer from religion.

Marriage is nothing more than a line on a tax form and the customs of traditional marriage differ from culture to culture. I'm not gay, nor am I a christian so I could care less on the matter of gay marriage.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Pretty easily.

1. Embrace Science as the only basis of logic, morals and ethics. Natural Selection, Survival and Advancement is all that maters.

2. Security, Rights and Protections come directly from the Government and are guarantied only as far as the Government allows.

3. If it makes logical sense - it is the most moral choice.

So, would you advocate rounding up all the people with Aids in the world and then euthanizing them? No no more infected people the diese will be eradicated - generation after generation will know a life free of this blight. It is the most logical thing you can do...

Ok, science is not a religion or a way of life. It is the method to which you test explanations and predictions based on observations of our universe. It is based on reason and logic. It has NOTHING to do with morals or ethics. It is just a system to build an understanding of our surroundings. Morals and ethics are and should be formed through society and common vote; or as you may prefer intelligent design.

I hate religion. I think it is a terrible way to comfort the weak and ignorant. But, I would never prohibit or prevent someone from doing or believing whatever they want as long as it does not interfere with my life. An atheistic president should do the same, obviously I cannot speak for everyone; but you make it out to be that everyone who denies there is a deity will be a genocidal maniac if put in a position of power.

All of the examples of atheist leaders you gave came from a suppressive nation that had no say in their leaders in power. Most leaders that come from countries with absolute control over the country tend to lean towards crazy regardless of beliefs.

[The Dude]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Actually in a world devoid of religion mariage would not exist, it's illogical. So the argument about gay marriage is idiotic.

You're right! Therefore it, and the legal benefits that go along with it, couldn't be denied to people based on someone else's religion. Glad you understand!

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by terrence

Morals and ethics are and should be formed through society and common vote

So... if we all vote to keep women locked up at home and wear burkas, that's cool?

So... if we all vote to eliminate "x" ethnic group...

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by The Dude

You're right! Therefore it, and the legal benefits that go along with it, couldn't be denied to people based on someone else's religion. Glad you understand!

You mean the benefit of losing half of everything you own and incurring massive debt when you split up?

Why would you tolerate homosexuality in a "science" based world... it goes against the species survival.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by terrence

An atheistic president should do the same, obviously I cannot speak for everyone; but you make it out to be that everyone who denies there is a deity will be a genocidal maniac if put in a position of power.

Find me an example to the contrary. If there is not religion... then there is no higher power or authority then the Government, thus whatever they do... is right.

No?

Why would you want a leader that believes the only reason you "can't" do something is because there may be a law?

[terrence]

Originally Posted by Corbic

So... if we all vote to keep women locked up at home and wear burkas, that's cool?

So... if we all vote to eliminate "x" ethnic group...

You just gave 2 examples of social confinements that originate from religious beliefs. Again, ethics and morals should be created through logic and rational discussion. Like how it's illegal to own slaves, women have equal rights, segregation is illegal, you can worship whatever crazy shit you want, ect.. I don't know where you are getting this assumption that ALL atheists are 3rd world dictators. It is quite the contrary to my experience.

Originally Posted by Corbic

You mean the benefit of losing half of everything you own and incurring massive debt when you split up?

Why would you tolerate homosexuality in a "science" based world... it goes against the species survival.

Where did you get this idea of what "science" is? It is not a religion or some doctrine to rule over a society. I really get the feeling that you are misinformed on your ideals.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Find me an example to the contrary. If there is not religion... then there is no higher power or authority then the Government, thus whatever they do... is right.

No?

Why would you want a leader that believes the only reason you "can't" do something is because there may be a law?

Religion as is government was created by people. So it is up to the people to decide is right or wrong.

I don't want a leader that "believes". I want a leader that can make decisions through logic and reason, and not based off of some shit made up during the bronze age.

[JimCrom]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Find me an example to the contrary. If there is not religion... then there is no higher power or authority then the Government, thus whatever they do... is right.

No?

Why would you want a leader that believes the only reason you "can't" do something is because there may be a law?

The government of western civilizations - Britain, France, the U.S.A - have been founded exclusively on the idea that the leader cannot do something because there is a law.

In England there have been multiple times - Magna Carta, the Glorious Revolution of 1688 - the people have come together to check the power of their leader by subjecting his actions to the rule of law.

The tradition we inherited from England subjected our executive and our legislature to the rule of law.

The French used our example to subject their king and their legislature to the rule of law.

We form governments to escape the state of nature. Then we subject the positions of power in those governments to the rule of law. In that bargain we also give up some of our "liberties" we enjoyed while in the state of nature. Its the social contract. We agree to be governed, and when the governors get out of line we rework/remake that agreement. Hence why the atrocities committed by Mao and Stalin did not continue on indefinitely.

[The Dude]

Originally Posted by Corbic

You mean the benefit of losing half of everything you own and incurring massive debt when you split up?

Why would you tolerate homosexuality in a "science" based world... it goes against the species survival.

Obviously that is an oversimplification. Not sure why you believe an atheist president would abolish all Christian traditions/customs (not that marriage is exclusive to Christianity).

Sorry to break this to you, but homosexuality has been documented in over 1000 species of animals. We already live in a "science-based world." You just don't realize it yet.

[JimCrom]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Got any proof to counter that? All I know is that all the Governments in the world that have ever rejected religion as an institution and officially embraced atheistic views are the perpetrators of the greatest human tragedies in the history of humanity.

All your bitching about 11th Century Crusades and gay marriage can't even begin to scratch the surface.

Actually in a world devoid of religion mariage would not exist, it's illogical. So the argument about gay marriage is idiotic.

Adolf Hitler's Third Reich did not officially embrace atheistic views and was the greatest perpetrator of genocide and responsible for the greatest human tragedy.

The Protestant Reformation was responsible for countless wars in Europe. These wars devastated the countryside, they ruined farms, caused famines, and filled fields with countless corpses.

Marriage has existed for thousands of years as a form of property management and advance. Marriages were sought and arranged to increase farmland, amount of livestock, and general household wealth. It was an economic arrangement. This can be seen in tracking the age of marriage. Earlier marriages occurred when land was available to set up a farm, and the weather was good enough to reap high yields. Marriages occurred later in life when land was scarce and sons stayed home to contribute their labor. These phenomena are all well documented by respected scholars in well-received historical monographs.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by terrence

You just gave 2 examples of social confinements that originate from religious beliefs. Again, ethics and morals should be created through logic and rational discussion. Like how it's illegal to own slaves, women have equal rights, segregation is illegal, you can worship whatever crazy shit you want, ect.. I don't know where you are getting this assumption that ALL atheists are 3rd world dictators. It is quite the contrary to my experience.

How are either of the examples I gave religious? Do you not know anything of WHY religious doctrines are formed the way they are and how they are a reflection of society more than anything.

Women's rights are born from child birthing and reproductive protection. You "have" to get married not because of magic words that people in ancient times are two stupid not to believe in, but because thousands of years ago ancient people realized when you have sex with a girl "which is fun" she gets pregnant. When she gets pregnant... she can't hunt, farm or defend her self. She also can't hunt, farm or defend her self when she has to watch over a child for 10-12 years.

So why should her parents... or village or all of us suffer and have to carry her dead weight cuz "you" had fun.... no... you want to have sex... your taking responsibility for that shit. And your response is... "if I'm taking responsibility for that shit... then that damn well better be my fucking kid!" So now your telling her to stay in the cave and are picking fights with anyone that talks to her.

There is your logic, rational and reasoning. No mystical mumbo-jumbo.

As far as slavery goes... hmmm. What does that have to do with religion? You can't even argue a "Racial" component to that since the people have enslaved their own race for eons.

Unity will divide, Division will unite. Remember that, because people will always find reasons to be "Different". Race, Country, Language, region, School, favorite color... Christians can't even agree on one doctrine, so why would "atheists" be able to agree on one set of values and cultural ways?

Originally Posted by terrence

I don't know where you are getting this assumption that ALL atheists are 3rd world dictators. It is quite the contrary to my experience.

Your experience? Examples please. The only one I can think of is marxism which has pretty much proven out to be the biggest scourge of mankind ever. The latest estimates is that Marxism killed 94 million people last century.

The Crusades, which you atheists love to bring up... caused a mere 1-3 million deaths over the course of 250 years. It was also more of a reflection of Europe's solution for dealing internal riffs, over population and the problems revolving around feudalism and transfer of wealth then it was about religious discourse.

The crusades also opened up the Western world to the rest of the world as far as trade and future expansion.

Religion is the excuse, not the cause of problems.

[jvsc91talon]

Corbic- Damn man you show how ignorant you are more and more at every post. NO ONE commits violent atrocities in the name of atheism, but such atrocities are mandated in the bible, koran, etc... There is an awesome quote by physicist Steven Weinberg : "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion." These people also do it with such self-righteous cause they feel God is on their side. You need to read history books and stop getting your information from people who have an agenda like Kirk Cameron and Ray"Banana Man" Comfort. Hitler was in FACT a Roman Catholic. Mao and Stalin were in FACT worshiped as gods and were state religions. Im sorry but i would rather argue, discuss, reason and talk about morality instead of the claim of absolute morality where a god who condones slavery, rape, stoning etc... It is 2012 and it is about time you join us and leave the thinking of desert dwelling sheep herders behind us. Since when is evolution an atheistic view? You are also misinformed if you think it is about "survival of the fittest." Washington was hardly "devout." He never really spoke about it and didnt really go to church that often, refused to take communion. Lincoln was also not "devout" and even wrote an essay mocking the idea that jesus was the son of God.

[1 88 U]

Transatlantic African slave trade, European colonialism and genocide used the Bible as justifications.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

Transatlantic African slave trade, European colonialism and genocide used the Bible as justifications.

[1 88 U]

You are sticking you head in the sand if you believe the crimes against humanity committed by Communist Dictators scratches the surface of Ottoman expansion, Catholic Crusades, the Inquisition, Transatlantic African slave trade, European colonialism, all of which used religion for justification.

yes really.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by jvsc91talon

Corbic- Damn man you show how ignorant you are more and more at every post. NO ONE commits violent atrocities in the name of atheism, but such atrocities are mandated in the bible, koran, etc... There is an awesome quote by physicist Steven Weinberg : "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion." These people also do it with such self-righteous cause they feel God is on their side. You need to read history books and stop getting your information from people who have an agenda like Kirk Cameron and Ray"Banana Man" Comfort. Hitler was in FACT a Roman Catholic. Mao and Stalin were in FACT worshiped as gods and were state religions. Im sorry but i would rather argue, discuss, reason and talk about morality instead of the claim of absolute morality where a god who condones slavery, rape, stoning etc... It is 2012 and it is about time you join us and leave the thinking of desert dwelling sheep herders behind us. Since when is evolution an atheistic view? You are also misinformed if you think it is about "survival of the fittest." Washington was hardly "devout." He never really spoke about it and didnt really go to church that often, refused to take communion. Lincoln was also not "devout" and even wrote an essay mocking the idea that jesus was the son of God.

Glad you glazed over the fact that religion reflects humanity and culture and that it's used as an excuse related to other greater social issues.

Also if there is no God but the man with the most power... then how is Mao not a god?

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by Corbic

BBC - Religions - Christianity: Atlantic slave trade and abolition

Religion as justification

The emergence of colonies in the Americas and the need to find labourers saw Europeans turn their attention to Africa with some arguing that the Transatlantic Slave Trade would enable Africans, especially the 'Mohammedans', to come into contact with Christianity and 'civilisation' in the Americas, albeit as slaves. It was even argued that the favourable trade winds from Africa to the Americas were evidence of this providential design.

Religion was also a driving force during slavery in the Americas. Once they arrived at their new locales the enslaved Africans were subjected to various processes to make them more compliant, and Christianity formed part of this. Ironically, although the assertion of evangelisation was one of the justifications for enslaving Africans, very little missionary work actually took place during the early years. In short, religion got in the way of a moneymaking venture by taking Africans away from their work. It also taught them potentially subversive ideas and made it hard to justify the cruel mistreatment of fellow Christians.

However, some clergy tried to push the idea that it was possible to be a 'good slave and Christian' and pointed to St Paul's epistles, which called for slaves to 'obey their masters', and St Peter's letters (1 Peter 2: 18-25), which appeared to suggest that it was wholly commendable for Christian slaves to suffer at the hands of cruel masters.

You are the very definition of Cognitive Dissonance.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

You are sticking you head in the sand if you believe the crimes against humanity committed by Communist Dictators scratches the surface of Ottoman expansion, Catholic Crusades, the Inquisition, Transatlantic African slave trade, European colonialism, all of which used religion for justification.

yes really.

But religion is not the cause. Your level of stupidity just bogles my mind.

Did you ever ask WHY the Ottoman Empire was forced to expand? Did you even read about WHY the Crusades happened?

I'm still baffled at how you can blame "african" slavery on religion. Was it not religion that set them free? Seems to me like the only reason they where in slaved was to support economic advancement of those with more technology and weaponry.

You really think all the geopolitical troubles of the world would vanish without a god?