Full-Race R14 at 2010 Modified Mag Tuner Shootout - Page 6 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Brett · 04-11-2010, 01:08 PM

The preliminary findings at the track were as follows:

1. Aluminum exhaust broke in two at a v-band fitting.
2. The leading edge of the back half of the exhaust was dragging on the ground.
3. The open exhaust on the front portion melted the awd controller causing trans fluid to pour out.
4. Sparky sparks + trans fluid + super heated exhaust fumes = get the extinguishers!

Car and driver were fine and the car was able to complete it's time attack before it happened.

Om1kron · 04-11-2010, 02:01 PM

next mod, a bucket of water, soap, and tons of armor all. LOL!

Silviaoneday · 04-11-2010, 02:21 PM

DAMN GOOD SAVE!! Hope the drivers alright! Get this beast back on the track and get us some updates! ^^^^^^ Wayne, my pops said he spoke to you at Long Beach, said you got a roller huh??

Om1kron · 04-11-2010, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silviaoneday

DAMN GOOD SAVE!! Hope the drivers alright! Get this beast back on the track and get us some updates! ^^^^^^ Wayne, my pops said he spoke to you at Long Beach, said you got a roller huh??

I can't remember the last time I was in long beach. I wasn't at Formula D this weekend. Maybe was talking to someone else?

FullRaceGeoff · 04-23-2010, 01:46 PM

here is some video of our final lap of the day (fast lap) and the cooldown lap:
Full-Race R14 Catches Fire at 2010 Tuner Shootout (Video) <--- click here

You can hear the exhaust break around 1min 25secs, and thats when things start to get scary..

the culprit: exhaust failed, ruptered high pressure p/s lineand p/s fluid ignited. We used a 22" long stainless DP, followed by the long aluminum exhuast. We used header wrap at the front of the exh, to protect the p/s hoses from heat, and this likely shortened the exhaust's life.. This aluminum exh has seen a lot of abuse, many hours of dynoing, street driving and practice sessions. The heavy loads during the time attack event were just too much and it gave up

fortunately it was an easy cleanup, the car is already back to blingin! needs a little work this weekend, but will be 100% by monday.

here she is during some street driving

slider2828 · 04-23-2010, 03:20 PM

Man whoever took that picture needs to bump the Apertature way up..... LOL nice car I love it.... its a dream

Wholly shit was the fire in the cabin too? Or just when he opened the door? Wholly christ the suit save his ass literally hahahah!

Agamemnon · 04-23-2010, 05:55 PM

Holy crap!

Fire crotch!

FullRaceGeoff · 04-23-2010, 06:11 PM

.. and thats why they are fireproof !

irritatedmax · 04-23-2010, 07:00 PM

Awesome and scary. Was the highway shot taken after the event? Did you remove all the stickers after the event? Car looks awesome. Can't wait to hear the event results.

FullRaceGeoff · 04-23-2010, 07:15 PM

thanks guys - stoked you like the vid!! BTW Please post the video link http://www.full-race.com/r14-fire-video.html on any forums or social networking sites you visit!! we need a lot of video views to make sure our sponsors stay with us for next year - you wouldnt believe how hard it is to get sponsorships these days, even for us

NiSilS14 · 04-24-2010, 03:14 AM

Good to see it was minor, and back to runnin' in no time. What did you guys do to prevent anymore fiery situations?

Ares240SX · 04-26-2010, 12:10 AM

Wow. Just saw this thread. I remember Geoff back in the day when he started doing Honda turbo manifolds on Honda-Tech. Fantastic looking car. Sorry to hear about the exhaust troubles as well.

eberle · 04-26-2010, 08:41 AM

sick build....keep the good work up

FullRaceGeoff · 04-26-2010, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiSilS14

Good to see it was minor, and back to runnin' in no time. What did you guys do to prevent anymore fiery situations?

stainless steel exhaust for the street - and for the race track do a short "upside-downpipe" venting out the hood. This is less weight, heat out of the engine bay, and downforce .. a win:win

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ares240SX

Wow. Just saw this thread. I remember Geoff back in the day when he started doing Honda turbo manifolds on Honda-Tech. Fantastic looking car. Sorry to hear about the exhaust troubles as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eberle

sick build....keep the good work up

thanks guys!

its just part of having fun with race cars..

jspaeth · 04-26-2010, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullRaceGeoff

stainless steel exhaust for the street - and for the race track do a short "upside-downpipe" venting out the hood. This is less weight, heat out of the engine bay, and downforce .. a win:win

thanks guys!

its just part of having fun with race cars..

Spoken like a true engineer!

Fluid mechanics says that the momentum of that exhaust gas exiting vertically provides a force on the chassis in the opposite direction.

BONUS!

FullRaceGeoff · 04-26-2010, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspaeth

Spoken like a true engineer!

thats because I ARE ONE

jk jk

blueshark123 · 04-26-2010, 08:00 PM

love the street driven pic with the nj plates on it lol

FullRaceGeoff · 04-26-2010, 08:02 PM

gotta represent!

FullRaceGeoff · 04-27-2010, 08:35 PM

Here is the dynochart from my latest round of testing with my RB26 (this was done in 4wd, on UMS's awd dynapacks, previous testing was done in 2wd mode)

this compares the S300P 0.80 a/r to the S300SX w/ 88mm compressor 1.00 a/r

orange: 0.80 a/r S300P, custom machined housing - 17.5psi tapering to 16psi
green: 0.80 a/r S300P, custom machined housing - 20.5psi tapering to 17.5psi

VS

pink:S300SX 88-75 1.00 a/r 19psi
blue: S300SX 88-75 1.00 a/r 19psi (same as above) with slight cam gear adjustment (advanced to +3 intake from +2, and added a little fuel during spoolup)

you can see the considerable gains in area-under-the-curve that i was able to acheive with this new turbo, and very small loss up top - well worth the tradeoff.

now that im all done, considering the amount of work I went through for this and time and expense required to make this S300P work, i think the 83-75 would have provided virtually the same powerband, and fit better as well as be easier to install.

^^this is a customer's twinscroll 83-75 1.00 a/r on our twinscroll subaru kit. I would kill to get that powerband with my RB26..

FullRaceGeoff · 04-30-2010, 09:38 AM

here are some pics of the ATESSA test-jig i built. It is going to a very bright electrical engineer friend of mine who has experience with his own tq split ECU for time attack subarus. The GST subaru runs his system with great results.

cant wait to see what he comes up with - using onboard G sensor built onto his circuit board

jspaeth · 04-30-2010, 10:11 AM

Geoff, I am interested in your take on "area under the torque curve"

If I compare the green curve to the blue curve, from 4500-8000 RPM, the blue curve seems to have a larger integral.

However, if you include points from say, 3500 or 4000 upward, there is a dramatic difference, because the green curve makes gobs more torque from 3000-4500 RPM.

That being said, wouldn't it depend upon the application?

If you see yourself in some road-racing situation where you DO care about 7000-8000 RPM range and DO plan to keep the revs always above 4500 RPM, wouldn't the Blue curve be better?

Just wanting to learn and playing Devil's advocate....

Educate me please!

FullRaceGeoff · 04-30-2010, 10:47 AM

you need to consider the gearing of the trans being used, and the powerband that the engine creates to suit the gearing + the track it is being used on. A low speed track that has low-rpm 2nd gear turns will really hurt if you only have a peaky high rpm powerband.

a stock GTR 5 speed trans has absurdly tall gears, which makes setting up a powerful AND responsive turbocharger system very difficult, especially on the low speed tracks and auto-x applications.

obviously a high speed track or a drag race application would be an entirely different powerband/gearing

jspaeth · 04-30-2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullRaceGeoff

you need to consider the gearing of the trans being used, and the powerband that the engine creates to suit the gearing + the track it is being used on. A low speed track that has low-rpm 2nd gear turns will really hurt if you only have a peaky high rpm powerband.

a stock GTR 5 speed trans has absurdly tall gears, which makes setting up a powerful AND responsive turbocharger system very difficult, especially on the low speed tracks and auto-x applications.

obviously a high speed track or a drag race application would be an entirely different powerband/gearing

Okay, thanks for the explanation!

Buriantsu · 04-30-2010, 11:24 AM

Fuego. Subscribed.

*kingkilburn* · 04-30-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullRaceGeoff

a stock GTR 5 speed trans has absurdly tall gears, which makes setting up a powerful AND responsive turbocharger system very difficult...

Would this be the reason you always see GTRs driven balls to the wall in serious racing? Like they have to push the car hard to keep it in the power band AND fast on the track.

speedrift · 04-30-2010, 12:48 PM

awesome...that is all.

k0013 · 04-30-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Would this be the reason you always see GTRs driven balls to the wall in serious racing? Like they have to push the car hard to keep it in the power band AND fast on the track.

more than likely it is the reason you see so many GTR's with dog mission gear boxes with custom gears to make up for this shortfall especially on circuits like Tsukuba.

KA24sleeper · 04-30-2010, 01:42 PM

Awsome build, hope my TA build will be awsome as this( if i can make more money)

FullRaceGeoff · 05-03-2010, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Would this be the reason you always see GTRs driven balls to the wall in serious racing? Like they have to push the car hard to keep it in the power band AND fast on the track.

im not sure of the answer on that, as every car we get in we typically push hard on the track... with the GTRs they have the following downsides:

big iron I6 + turbos = heavy nose weight -- 1100lb on each front wheel is HEAVY, moving the motor back is $$$ and a straight race car at that point
2.6L engine doesnt generate much torque -> 2.8L or 3.0L strokers make a lot of sense
5 speed gearing sucks --> go to a 6 speed R34 box

Quote:

Originally Posted by k0013

more than likely it is the reason you see so many GTR's with dog mission gear boxes with custom gears to make up for this shortfall especially on circuits like Tsukuba.

yes, but the r34 6 speed getrag is an even better option.. thats what im saving my monies for! gonna have to sell some parts soon

FullRaceGeoff · 07-02-2010, 05:29 PM

oops repost

04-11-2010, 02:01 PM	#152
Om1kron Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Granada Hills, CA Age: 43 Posts: 6,990 Trader Rating: (15) Feedback Score: 15 reviews	next mod, a bucket of water, soap, and tons of armor all. LOL! __________________ Wayne Edwards https://om1kron.blogspot.com

04-23-2010, 01:46 PM	#155
FullRaceGeoff Leaky Injector Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: az/nj Posts: 123 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	here is some video of our final lap of the day (fast lap) and the cooldown lap: Full-Race R14 Catches Fire at 2010 Tuner Shootout (Video) <--- click here You can hear the exhaust break around 1min 25secs, and thats when things start to get scary.. the culprit: exhaust failed, ruptered high pressure p/s lineand p/s fluid ignited. We used a 22" long stainless DP, followed by the long aluminum exhuast. We used header wrap at the front of the exh, to protect the p/s hoses from heat, and this likely shortened the exhaust's life.. This aluminum exh has seen a lot of abuse, many hours of dynoing, street driving and practice sessions. The heavy loads during the time attack event were just too much and it gave up fortunately it was an easy cleanup, the car is already back to blingin! needs a little work this weekend, but will be 100% by monday. here she is during some street driving Last edited by FullRaceGeoff; 04-23-2010 at 02:43 PM..

04-23-2010, 03:20 PM	#156
slider2828 Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,998 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	Man whoever took that picture needs to bump the Apertature way up..... LOL nice car I love it.... its a dream Wholly shit was the fire in the cabin too? Or just when he opened the door? Wholly christ the suit save his ass literally hahahah! __________________ Turn and Burn!

04-23-2010, 07:00 PM	#159
irritatedmax Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ashland, NE Age: 38 Posts: 1,359 Trader Rating: (20) Feedback Score: 20 reviews	Awesome and scary. Was the highway shot taken after the event? Did you remove all the stickers after the event? Car looks awesome. Can't wait to hear the event results. __________________ BRICKHOUSE PRODUCTS IG @brickhouse_products

04-30-2010, 10:11 AM	#171
jspaeth Nissanaholic! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Philadelphia suburbs Age: 39 Posts: 2,347 Trader Rating: (7) Rides Gallery: jspaeth Feedback Score: 7 reviews	Geoff, I am interested in your take on "area under the torque curve" If I compare the green curve to the blue curve, from 4500-8000 RPM, the blue curve seems to have a larger integral. However, if you include points from say, 3500 or 4000 upward, there is a dramatic difference, because the green curve makes gobs more torque from 3000-4500 RPM. That being said, wouldn't it depend upon the application? If you see yourself in some road-racing situation where you DO care about 7000-8000 RPM range and DO plan to keep the revs always above 4500 RPM, wouldn't the Blue curve be better? Just wanting to learn and playing Devil's advocate.... Educate me please! __________________ Daily driven

04-11-2010, 01:08 PM	#151
Brett Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 1 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	The preliminary findings at the track were as follows: 1. Aluminum exhaust broke in two at a v-band fitting. 2. The leading edge of the back half of the exhaust was dragging on the ground. 3. The open exhaust on the front portion melted the awd controller causing trans fluid to pour out. 4. Sparky sparks + trans fluid + super heated exhaust fumes = get the extinguishers! Car and driver were fine and the car was able to complete it's time attack before it happened.

04-11-2010, 02:21 PM	#153
Silviaoneday Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: So Cal Posts: 471 Trader Rating: (9) Feedback Score: 9 reviews	DAMN GOOD SAVE!! Hope the drivers alright! Get this beast back on the track and get us some updates! ^^^^^^ Wayne, my pops said he spoke to you at Long Beach, said you got a roller huh??

04-23-2010, 05:55 PM	#157
Agamemnon Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lake Stevens, WA Age: 41 Posts: 2,657 Trader Rating: (20) Feedback Score: 20 reviews	Holy crap! Fire crotch!

04-23-2010, 06:11 PM	#158
FullRaceGeoff Leaky Injector Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: az/nj Posts: 123 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	.. and thats why they are fireproof !

04-23-2010, 07:15 PM	#160
FullRaceGeoff Leaky Injector Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: az/nj Posts: 123 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	thanks guys - stoked you like the vid!! BTW Please post the video link http://www.full-race.com/r14-fire-video.html on any forums or social networking sites you visit!! we need a lot of video views to make sure our sponsors stay with us for next year - you wouldnt believe how hard it is to get sponsorships these days, even for us

04-24-2010, 03:14 AM	#161
NiSilS14 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 568 Trader Rating: (20) Feedback Score: 20 reviews	Good to see it was minor, and back to runnin' in no time. What did you guys do to prevent anymore fiery situations?

04-26-2010, 12:10 AM	#162
Ares240SX Leaky Injector Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Nor Cal Age: 40 Posts: 141 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Wow. Just saw this thread. I remember Geoff back in the day when he started doing Honda turbo manifolds on Honda-Tech. Fantastic looking car. Sorry to hear about the exhaust troubles as well.

04-26-2010, 08:41 AM	#163
eberle Leaky Injector Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana Age: 36 Posts: 58 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	sick build....keep the good work up

04-26-2010, 08:00 PM	#167
blueshark123 Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Jersey Posts: 5,481 Trader Rating: (55) Feedback Score: 55 reviews	love the street driven pic with the nj plates on it lol

04-26-2010, 08:02 PM	#168
FullRaceGeoff Leaky Injector Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: az/nj Posts: 123 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	gotta represent!

04-27-2010, 08:35 PM	#169
FullRaceGeoff Leaky Injector Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: az/nj Posts: 123 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Here is the dynochart from my latest round of testing with my RB26 (this was done in 4wd, on UMS's awd dynapacks, previous testing was done in 2wd mode) this compares the S300P 0.80 a/r to the S300SX w/ 88mm compressor 1.00 a/r orange: 0.80 a/r S300P, custom machined housing - 17.5psi tapering to 16psi green: 0.80 a/r S300P, custom machined housing - 20.5psi tapering to 17.5psi VS pink:S300SX 88-75 1.00 a/r 19psi blue: S300SX 88-75 1.00 a/r 19psi (same as above) with slight cam gear adjustment (advanced to +3 intake from +2, and added a little fuel during spoolup) you can see the considerable gains in area-under-the-curve that i was able to acheive with this new turbo, and very small loss up top - well worth the tradeoff. now that im all done, considering the amount of work I went through for this and time and expense required to make this S300P work, i think the 83-75 would have provided virtually the same powerband, and fit better as well as be easier to install. ^^this is a customer's twinscroll 83-75 1.00 a/r on our twinscroll subaru kit. I would kill to get that powerband with my RB26..

04-30-2010, 09:38 AM	#170
FullRaceGeoff Leaky Injector Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: az/nj Posts: 123 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	here are some pics of the ATESSA test-jig i built. It is going to a very bright electrical engineer friend of mine who has experience with his own tq split ECU for time attack subarus. The GST subaru runs his system with great results. cant wait to see what he comes up with - using onboard G sensor built onto his circuit board

04-30-2010, 10:47 AM	#172
FullRaceGeoff Leaky Injector Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: az/nj Posts: 123 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	you need to consider the gearing of the trans being used, and the powerband that the engine creates to suit the gearing + the track it is being used on. A low speed track that has low-rpm 2nd gear turns will really hurt if you only have a peaky high rpm powerband. a stock GTR 5 speed trans has absurdly tall gears, which makes setting up a powerful AND responsive turbocharger system very difficult, especially on the low speed tracks and auto-x applications. obviously a high speed track or a drag race application would be an entirely different powerband/gearing

04-30-2010, 11:24 AM	#174
Buriantsu Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: May 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 1,036 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Fuego. Subscribed. __________________ Hialeah EditionHialeah Edtion

04-30-2010, 12:48 PM	#176
speedrift Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 38 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	awesome...that is all. __________________ http://www.projectaspec.com

04-30-2010, 01:42 PM	#178
KA24sleeper Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: SoCal Age: 34 Posts: 359 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Awsome build, hope my TA build will be awsome as this( if i can make more money) __________________ SUSPENSION>Power

07-02-2010, 05:29 PM	#180
FullRaceGeoff Leaky Injector Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: az/nj Posts: 123 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	oops repost Last edited by FullRaceGeoff; 07-02-2010 at 06:00 PM..