Fuck your flag pole and your medal of honor.

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

Not according to that law, unless you're telling me that law says the HOA has the right to tell someone how they are limited to displaying the flag. Which, in my opinion, would defeat the purpose of the law.

Taken from the HOA website
...Unlike a municipal government, homeowner association governance is not subject to the constitutional constraints that public government must abide by...

So yes it does defeat the purpose of said law

[upsdude]

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

Which just so happens to be 100% within the power of a HOA?

I guess the ultimate thing is if he doesn't like the HOA's rules and powers MOVE problem solved, nobody is forcing him to stay there

dude, he's 90 freakin' years old! you act as if he's going to be able to just pick up his shit and leave lol.

[ryguy]

Somebody should call up those bikers who defended funerals of fallen soldiers from that "god-hates-fags" church. Have them ride their bikes around the neighborhood until the HOA gives up.

And Sleepy240, it's not a law or even a rule that the HOA has in place, its a person's opinion of what doesn't look asthetically pleasing. I would argue that that rule is to keep crap from accumulating in a person's yard, not to single out a person with a flagpole.

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

All they are in effect is denying his free standing flag pole which they are in perfect right to do so. Perhaps you should have read what you posted

The way I understood the bill, they cannot discriminate based on how the flag is flown as long as it's being flown on a privately owned tract of land.

[Matej]

These guys fight against big scary communism, and back home they are told what they can and can't do on their 'own' land. Ironic.

[Brian]

I wonder if those people in charge of the HOA have ever done anything good for this country.
...probably not.

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by Brian

I wonder if those people in charge of the HOA have ever done anything good for this country.
...probably not.

You never know, you would have to investigate each person on the committee for your area. Its easy to assume not, but you know what they say about people who assume

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

You never know, you would have to investigate each person on the committee for your area. Its easy to assume not, but you know what they say about people who assume

NO SHIT?

thanks for the info.

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by Brian

NO SHIT?

thanks for the info.

No problem man!!

[Jtuned_andy]

Here is all the information regarding the case. I urge you to call the HOA and let them know your opinions.

Coates & Davenport (the law firm backing the HOA):
5206 Markel Road
Richmond, VA 23230-3044
Phone: (804) 285-7000

Sussex Square HOA Line: 804-740-8795 (Note: This number claims to be the wrong number)

HOA President:
Glenn Wilson
11800 N. Downs Square
Henrico, VA 23238
804-741-9160

HOA Director:
Evelyn L Wilson (Address same as Glenn Wilson)

HOA Treasurer:
Martha Middleton
11808 Rochampton Square
Richmond, VA 23238

Lawyer assigned to the case: Attorney Alexandra Bowen, Coates & Davenport, Richmond, Virginia
Alexandra "Sandra" D. Bowen
5206 Markel Rd
Richmond, VA 23230
804-285-7000

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Jtuned_andy

Here is all the information regarding the case. I urge you to call the HOA and let them know your opinions.

Coates & Davenport (the law firm backing the HOA):
5206 Markel Road
Richmond, VA 23230-3044
Phone: (804) 285-7000

Sussex Square HOA Line: 804-740-8795 (Note: This number claims to be the wrong number)

HOA President:
Glenn Wilson
11800 N. Downs Square
Henrico, VA 23238
804-741-9160

HOA Director:
Evelyn L Wilson (Address same as Glenn Wilson)

HOA Treasurer:
Martha Middleton
11808 Rochampton Square
Richmond, VA 23238

Lawyer assigned to the case: Attorney Alexandra Bowen, Coates & Davenport, Richmond, Virginia
Alexandra "Sandra" D. Bowen
5206 Markel Rd
Richmond, VA 23230
804-285-7000

you are right, the hotline number doesn't work.
HOA president line just goes to voicemail.


oh well.


At the end of the day, I hope this Veteran gets to keep his flagpole and flag. I think he deserves it.

[DALAZ_68]

Originally Posted by filiperuvian

dude, he's 90 freakin' years old! you act as if he's going to be able to just pick up his shit and leave lol.

seriously right...

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

I do live in a community with a HOA, and like I said before its fantastic. I've never had an issues, with neighbors or the HOA. Unlike most people who have posted in this thread who are on the outside looking in. Its easy to judge though so I understand.

so you dont mind being told how to live in ur own property...kew...do your thing...personally if i dropped cash to own my home id like to live in it how i wouldnt WANT to live in it. Now dont get me wrong here and think id trash the place, no, but i wouldnt want to live in a place were everyone shares one opinion with no room for anything else...

Originally Posted by DreamN

Obviously many of you have little to no experience with an HOA. It's not fun to live in an area with one if you're not one that likes to conform to the "norm."

i have, never again...

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

Trust me your not the only one, my views can easily be abrasive to say the least. Hopefully something good comes of this and the veteran will be allowed to display his flag, I think we can all agree that would be the best outcome.

best outcome would be to let him show his patriotism the way he wants to...simple...the way you come off in this arguement tells me ur the kinda person who wouldnt give your seat to an old lady, yeah she's got legs she can get her own, fuck courtesy right...no respect for those b4 you who im pretty sure accomplished more in there lives and hold higher values than you could understand...



but i guess risking your life for people youll never meet and watching friends families die, and hell even killing and risking hell and risking total damnation per his religion...oh well right...

Originally Posted by HalveBlue

I salute you Mr. Barfoot!

same here...i dont know the man but like any other military person i know, i respect and thank you for your sacrifice

Originally Posted by DreamN

The issue is it's too much of a difference from the "norm." The norm being, no flag poles on other homes.

ohh....so he's to patriotic unlike the rest...cool got it...


the ones over analyzing the situation is the HOA...let the man live in peace for watever time he has left to enjoy the peace he helped bring this country...

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by DALAZ_68

so you dont mind being told how to live in ur own property...kew...do your thing...personally if i dropped cash to own my home id like to live in it how i wouldnt WANT to live in it. Now dont get me wrong here and think id trash the place, no, but i wouldnt want to live in a place were everyone shares one opinion with no room for anything else...

To me this seems like an isolated incident and like I have said before its easy for people to judge when they no absolutely nothing about HOA's. My HOA is fantastic, we live in a fantastic community. Some are more stingy than others, mine is very simple basically limiting shutter colors / siding colors / roofing colors on the houses. Making for a much more appealing community. And if I ever decide to sell my property I will receive (most likely) more than I paid for it since people actually WANT to live here. Its a place I feel totally safe, especially in the near future for my family. They have no control over what color your furniture is, or whether you can drink wine or soda. All they do is make the exterior of the community the most pleasant thing possible. If you have ever lived next to neighbors who frankly don't give a shit about their property you will see how that diminishes the value of EVERYONES property in the area, guess what I will NEVER have that problem.

best outcome would be to let him show his patriotism the way he wants to...simple...the way you come off in this arguement tells me ur the kinda person who wouldnt give your seat to an old lady, yeah she's got legs she can get her own, fuck courtesy right...no respect for those b4 you who im pretty sure accomplished more in there lives and hold higher values than you could understand... but i guess risking your life for people youll never meet and watching friends families die, and hell even killing and risking hell and risking total damnation per his religion...oh well right...

Your completely entitled to your opinion. Its easy for someone in your position to make claims about me. I am 100% sure this fine gentleman has done more than you and I combined. I hold pretty high values, one of which is following SIMPLE RULES, on the contrary you come across with some relatively low standards (thinking you know about me). I could be wrong but unless you know the guy you have no idea what he has gone through, why he received his MOH, where he even fought. My point being you have no idea also.

[DALAZ_68]

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

To me this seems like an isolated incident and like I have said before its easy for people to judge when they no absolutely nothing about HOA's.

ive lived in an HOA controlled area...for 2 months....never again...

My HOA is fantastic, we live in a fantastic community. Some are more stingy than others, mine is very simple basically limiting shutter colors / siding colors / roofing colors on the houses. Making for a much more appealing community. And if I ever decide to sell my property I will receive (most likely) more than I paid for it since people actually WANT to live here. Its a place I feel totally safe, especially in the near future for my family. They have no control over what color your furniture is, or whether you can drink wine or soda. All they do is make the exterior of the community the most pleasant thing possible. If you have ever lived next to neighbors who frankly don't give a shit about their property you will see how that diminishes the value of EVERYONES property in the area, guess what I will NEVER have that problem.

obviously they wouldnt control what goes inside ur home, yet there are some HOA who do complain about curtain colors? seriously cmon...

i personally like diversed homes, different colors different styles...especially in areas were people built there own dream home...

im not down to live in an area were everything outside has to have symmetry...its boring to me.

like i said if ur down for that way of living, so be it...

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

Your completely entitled to your opinion. Its easy for someone in your position to make claims about me. I am 100% sure this fine gentleman has done more than you and I combined. I hold pretty high values, one of which is following SIMPLE RULES, on the contrary you come across with some relatively low standards (thinking you know about me). I could be wrong but unless you know the guy you have no idea what he has gone through, why he received his MOH, where he even fought. My point being you have no idea also.

im not claiming anything, just my opinion of what you have personified to me in this thread about the ludicrous shit this poor man has to deal with...

remember your the one sayin for him to Move, the guy is 90, fought wars, and is a patriot of this country, really you think telling him to just move is a justifiable answer to this bullshit?

i personally have no issues with rules, rules that matter anyway... being told what color im allowed to have on my property, or how to display my american flag...nonsense...

if by low standards to you mean respecting and giving this gent one of the only pleasures he has left in his life by flying his flag up high...so be it...

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

why he received his MOH ?

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty on 23 May 1944, near Carano, Italy. With his platoon heavily engaged during an assault against forces well entrenched on commanding ground, 2d Lt. Barfoot (then Tech. Sgt.) moved off alone upon the enemy left flank. He crawled to the proximity of 1 machinegun nest and made a direct hit on it with a hand grenade, killing 2 and wounding 3 Germans. He continued along the German defense line to another machinegun emplacement, and with his tommygun killed 2 and captured 3 soldiers. Members of another enemy machinegun crew then abandoned their position and gave themselves up to Sgt. Barfoot. Leaving the prisoners for his support squad to pick up, he proceeded to mop up positions in the immediate area, capturing more prisoners and bringing his total count to 17. Later that day, after he had reorganized his men and consolidated the newly captured ground, the enemy launched a fierce armored counterattack directly at his platoon positions. Securing a bazooka, Sgt. Barfoot took up an exposed position directly in front of 3 advancing Mark VI tanks. From a distance of 75 yards his first shot destroyed the track of the leading tank, effectively disabling it, while the other 2 changed direction toward the flank. As the crew of the disabled tank dismounted, Sgt. Barfoot killed 3 of them with his tommygun. He continued onward into enemy terrain and destroyed a recently abandoned German fieldpiece with a demolition charge placed in the breech. While returning to his platoon position, Sgt. Barfoot, though greatly fatigued by his Herculean efforts, assisted 2 of his seriously wounded men 1,700 yards to a position of safety. Sgt. Barfoot's extraordinary heroism, demonstration of magnificent valor, and aggressive determination in the face of pointblank fire are a perpetual inspiration to his fellow soldiers

does that help you understand him a bit more? god knows it help me wish i could even come close to what hes done.

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

where he even fought?

After enlisting in the Army from Carthage, Mississippi, in 1940 and completing his training, Barfoot served with the 1st Infantry Division in Louisiana and Puerto Rico. In December 1941, he was promoted to sergeant and re-assigned to the Headquarters Amphibious Force Atlantic Fleet in Quantico, Virginia, which he served with until it was deactivated in 1943. He next joined the 157th Infantry Regiment, 45th Infantry Division, and was sent to Europe.[2]
As part of the Italian Campaign, Barfoot participated in a series of amphibious landings: the Allied invasion of Sicily in July 1943, the invasion of mainland Italy at Salerno in September, and finally the landings at Anzio in late January 1944. His unit pushed inland from Anzio, and by May 1944 had reached the town of Carano. There they set up defensive positions and, for several weeks, Barfoot conducted patrols to scout the German lines. When his company was ordered to attack on the morning of May 23, Barfoot, now a technical sergeant, asked for permission to lead a squad. Because of the patrols he had conducted, he knew the layout of the terrain and the minefield which lay in front of the German position. He advanced alone through the minefield, following ditches and depressions, until he came within a few yards of a machine gun on the German flank. After destroying the gun with a hand grenade, he entered the German trench and advanced on a second machine gun, killing two soldiers and capturing three others. When he reached a third gun, the entire crew surrendered. After clearing the area, Barfoot had captured a total of seventeen German soldiers.[2]
When the Germans launched an armored counterattack later in the day, Barfoot disabled one tank with a bazooka, advanced into enemy-held territory, and destroyed an abandoned German artillery piece. He then returned to his own lines and helped two wounded soldiers from his squad to the rear.[2]
Barfoot was subsequently commissioned as a second lieutenant. His unit moved into France and by September was serving in the Rhone valley. It was there that Barfoot learned he would be awarded the Medal of Honor. He chose to have the presentation ceremony in the field, rather than in the United States, so that his soldiers could attend. He was formally presented with the medal on September 28, 1944, in Épinal, France, by Lieutenant General Alexander Patch.[2]
Barfoot reached the rank of colonel before retiring from the Army

facing mind fields?, tanks?...holy Fuck...id be honored to be in the same fucking room as this guy, just like i am honored to be in the presence of anyone who fought for the country in which many of my generation abuse the liberties we get to enjoy due to there sacrifice day in and day out...


does this guy DESERVE the RIGHT to fly his flag on that fucking pole ? YES
simple answer is YES

[NismoDriverS13]

the fucked up part is....that's his home and property, he should decide what he wants to put anywhere on his property. u paying for the land and the house, then its urs and no fucking stupid shit headed HOA can do anything about it.

ppl are sooo fucked up now a days! they dont even take into consideration that the dude fought for the coutry when they were all sucking their thumb and rolling around in dipers!!! if i was in HOA i would go and build him a bigger flag pole with bigger flag.

who ever is on the m.f. HOA board are all idiots!!!

[cc4usmc]

SEC. 3. RIGHT TO DISPLAY THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES.

A condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association may not adopt or enforce any policy, or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag of the United States on residential property within the association with respect to which such member has a separate ownership interest or a right to exclusive possession or use.

PLUS

SEC. 4. LIMITATIONS.

Nothing in this Act shall be considered to permit any display or use that is inconsistent with--

(2) any reasonable restriction pertaining to the time, place, or manner of displaying the flag of the United States necessary to protect a substantial interest of the condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association.

Confuses me. It's like "They can't restrict that...but they really can"

[g6civcx]

SEC. 3. RIGHT TO DISPLAY THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES.

A condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association may not adopt or enforce any policy, or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag of the United States on residential property within the association with respect to which such member has a separate ownership interest or a right to exclusive possession or use.

SEC. 4. LIMITATIONS.

Nothing in this Act shall be considered to permit any display or use that is inconsistent with--

(2) any reasonable restriction pertaining to the time, place, or manner of displaying the flag of the United States necessary to protect a substantial interest of the condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association.

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

Confuses me. It's like "They can't restrict that...but they really can"

See the bolded section above.

Please allow me to explain something. HOAs and covenants are extremely, extremely powerful. They can do just about anything as long as it is not illegal.

The pecking order goes like this:

US Constitution
Federal Law
State Law
Local Law
HOA/Convenant
Homeowner

An entity may overrule its subordinates, but must obey its superior.

So as long as as the HOA rules don't violate any law, the HOA can make you do anything. You don't legally own the land you live on. You live on your land at the HOA's whim, and they can evict you any time for any reason.

Read your HOA rider when you bought the house. If you don't agree to their rules, you can't buy the house. They can block sales, force sales, evict, repo, refurnish, or just anything else they want.

I have seen cases where millionaire athletes were evicted by the HOA for throwing too many parties after a long legal battle. It shows that even if you have money, HOAs are very powerful.

An example:

HOAs can make you do a backflip every time you enter your house and this would be legal. The Constitution doesn't say that it's illegal to do backflips, and federal/state/local law doesn't ban doing backflip in front of your house. So this rule would stick.

HOAs cannot evict black people. This violates federal anti-discrimination law. So this rule would be thrown out and cannot be enforced.


If you want to win the legal argument, the vet has to show why banning the flagpole is illegal under the Constitution, federal, state, or local law. He has to convince a judge that banning the flagpole is illegal.

Alternatively, the vet can run for the HOA himself and change the rules internally.

Either that, or just move. He has no other legal recourse under current US and Virginia law.

[cc4usmc]

Originally Posted by g6civcx

So as long as as the HOA rules don't violate any law, the HOA can make you do anything.

What I don't understand about that law, is the first sections says they can't make you take it down. The second, however, says they can. I thought that bold text in the first section meant that a homeowner had exclusive rights to their flag/flag pole etc, much like a country does with their Embassy.

[DreamN]

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

What I don't understand about that law, is the first sections says they can't make you take it down. The second, however, says they can. I thought that bold text in the first section meant that a homeowner had exclusive rights to their flag/flag pole etc, much like a country does with their Embassy.

The way I understood it is you are free to display it, but if it doesn't fit a set standard or is not approved you will have to take it down with the option to display it in the approved manner.

It's a bad situation to be in and it looks very bad on the HOA simply because he's a veteran of such caliber. I'm glad he and his family are fighting against the HOA on this matter though.

[cc4usmc]

Originally Posted by DreamN

The way I understood it is you are free to display it, but if it doesn't fit a set standard or is not approved you will have to take it down with the option to display it in the approved manner.

Which would render the law useless because the underlined is up to the very people the law is supposed to protect you from. Right?

[theicecreamdan]

Originally Posted by g6civcx

HOAs can make you do a backflip every time you enter your house and this would be legal. The Constitution doesn't say that it's illegal to do backflips, and federal/state/local law doesn't ban doing backflip in front of your house. So this rule would stick.

HOAs cannot evict black people. This violates federal anti-discrimination law. So this rule would be thrown out and cannot be enforced.

.

Wouldn't the first part of the example be discriminatory against disabled people?

Its sad that this has to be an issue, but its good to see that this man is still fighting fights worth fighting. Don't worry too much people, I have a feeling he will win a fight that most people wouldn't win.

[NismoDriverS13]

^^ just a bunch of mind fucking if u ask me..........

[DreamN]

Why are you people even arguing? Sure, it's fucked up, but the sad thing is an HOA really does have control of what you do with your property. Some go as detailed with what plants are able to planted on your front lawn. If your house doesn't have a fence, but you'd like one, you can't just put one up. There is paperwork to be done first and approvals to be made.

Obviously many of you have little to no experience with an HOA. It's not fun to live in an area with one if you're not one that likes to conform to the "norm."

[BustedS13]

Originally Posted by DreamN

Why are you people even arguing? Sure, it's fucked up, but the sad thing is an HOA really does have control of what you do with your property. Some go as detailed with what plants are able to planted on your front lawn. If your house doesn't have a fence, but you'd like one, you can't just put one up. There is paperwork to be done first and approvals to be made.

Obviously many of you have little to no experience with an HOA. It's not fun to live in an area with one if you're not one that likes to conform to the "norm."

i have a problem with it because... what's wrong with patriotism? especially something as simple as a flagpole? why would ANYONE in the US find an American flag offensive to the eye? it's not like it's spraypainted on the hood of his camaro he keeps parked in the front yard.
would these people have a problem with a service flag in a window or on a door?

[DreamN]

Originally Posted by BustedS13

i have a problem with it because... what's wrong with patriotism? especially something as simple as a flagpole? why would ANYONE in the US find an American flag offensive to the eye? it's not like it's spraypainted on the hood of his camaro he keeps parked in the front yard.
would these people have a problem with a service flag in a window or on a door?

Nothing is wrong with patriotism. No one is finding the flag offensive. As mentioned in the article flags are displayed on nearly all homes in the community, they're just the ones that folks display on their porches. They wouldn't have an issue with the flag, just might have an issue with its placement.

The issue is it's too much of a difference from the "norm." The norm being, no flag poles on other homes. If it stands out to much HOA will most likely want it removed. As I mentioned, some HOA are run by folks who are just in it to be total nazis about everything. I wasn't bullshiting about the plant and fence issues either. Friends of mine have had to remove brand new plants from their yard because they weren't approved by their HOA. Fences taken down because they were to tall and the owner didn't get approval beforehand. Tire swings not allowed. It's a very long list to what an HOA won't approve and have removed. Some HOA even won't allow dogs. Not certain breeds, I'm talking any dog. When you move into a community with HOA you pretty much tend to your home by a set standard. It's very similar to living in an apartment complex.

The way I could understand it from the HOA's perspective is that when not in use the pole is just a pole and it's unsightly just to have a pole in your yard. I don't agree with it, but it's how it is when you live in an area with an HOA. It's nothing against the veteran or patriotism. They are requesting the pole to be removed, not the flag.

Most of you are simply over analyzing and digging way to deep into what's really only a scratch.

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by DreamN

Nothing is wrong with patriotism. No one is finding the flag offensive. As mentioned in the article flags are displayed on nearly all homes in the community, they're just the ones that folks display on their porches. They wouldn't have an issue with the flag, just might have an issue with its placement.

The issue is it's too much of a difference from the "norm." The norm being, no flag poles on other homes. If it stands out to much HOA will most likely want it removed. As I mentioned, some HOA are run by folks who are just in it to be total nazis about everything. I wasn't bullshiting about the plant and fence issues either. Friends of mine have had to remove brand new plants from their yard because they weren't approved by their HOA. Fences taken down because they were to tall and the owner didn't get approval beforehand. Tire swings not allowed. It's a very long list to what an HOA won't approve and have removed. Some HOA even won't allow dogs. Not certain breeds, I'm talking any dog. When you move into a community with HOA you pretty much tend to your home by a set standard. It's very similar to living in an apartment complex.

The way I could understand it from the HOA's perspective is that when not in use the pole is just a pole and it's unsightly just to have a pole in your yard. I don't agree with it, but it's how it is when you live in an area with an HOA. It's nothing against the veteran or patriotism. They are requesting the pole to be removed, not the flag.

Most of you are simply over analyzing and digging way to deep into what's really only a scratch.

Thankfully people have begun to use common sense! This comment basically sums it up, something I was trying to get across earlier but I think your wording is better!

[ryguy]

quick slightly off topic question- does a homeowners association have to be created when the subdivision is built, or can one spring up around you and basically devour you?

[cc4usmc]

Originally Posted by ryguy

can one spring up around you and basically devour you?

I wouldn't be surprised if it that could happen.

I really wish I could know more about the people who think that the HOA isn't doing anything wrong. I bet this wouldn't be the only area were I would agree with them. I already know that applies to Sleepy lol.

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by ryguy

quick slightly off topic question- does a homeowners association have to be created when the subdivision is built, or can one spring up around you and basically devour you?

I'm sure its possible that one could eventually come to an area you live in but I doubt it. Most of the time its in a new area to benefit the land owners, real estate agents, and the municipalities.

and

cc4usmc I am happy that somebody with some valid thoughtful opinions joined the conversation. Regardless of how far apart we are it makes people who view the thread think

[cc4usmc]

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

cc4usmc I am happy that somebody with some valid thoughtful opinions joined the conversation. Regardless of how far apart we are it makes people who view the thread think

You're right. I know I can come off as a smart ass, but that's because I take these things seriously. I think this is 100% Un-American. You're entitled to your opinions just as I am, so I'm sorry get out of line.

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

You're right. I know I can come off as a smart ass, but that's because I take these things seriously. I think this is 100% Un-American. You're entitled to your opinions just as I am, so I'm sorry get out of line.

Trust me your not the only one, my views can easily be abrasive to say the least. Hopefully something good comes of this and the veteran will be allowed to display his flag, I think we can all agree that would be the best outcome.