Marijuana Legalization Debate *NO PICTURES*

[drftmark]

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

Perhaps you should read the entire thread before you chime in. Also I think by "mm" you meant Medical Marijuana, and it is legal simply for that reason its MEDICAL. Regardless of whether you work in the "medical indus" (not sure what you really mean by that) I don't forsee it being legalized anytime in the near future.

I think he meant medical industry? Maybe? I read somewhere that if we could grow hemp that America could be energy independent.

PHLIP posted some good articles

[Sleepy240]

Yeah I know he meant the Medical Industry, but just because your in the medical industry does not mean you have some kind of "inside" information! I think energy independent would be a stretch, it would require quite some time before it would get to that point. Like I said before I see the biggest problem being the time needed to change everything over. Like most industries sadly they end up being out sourced nowadays, the last thing we need is to start to grow this miracle crop Hemp and then manufacture it overseas. I mean initially obviously that would not be the idea, but that was never the goal with alot of American industry. I do see lots of benefits to growing Hemp, I don't see the same benefits for legalizing marijuana though.

[S13Boosts]

Economy is bad = NEED MONEY= MM+TAX = legalization of marijuana...


simple as that.

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by S13Boosts

Economy is bad = NEED MONEY= MM+TAX = legalization of marijuana...


simple as that.

I think you need to get a grasp on economics before you go and make some jackass statement like the above. Like I said before Medical Marijuana is just that, its MEDICAL. Its not for recreational use like you seem to believe.

[S13Boosts]

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

I think you need to get a grasp on economics before you go and make some jackass statement like the above. Like I said before Medical Marijuana is just that, its MEDICAL. Its not for recreational use like you seem to believe.

Either way the government will try and make some money out of it, its all about the MONEY.

[CrimsonRockett]

Originally Posted by S13Boosts

It just sounds like people are crying and bitching about this topic in the thread..if you dont smoke bud or hate it for what ever reason just quit it gtfo this thread,thats just it, I WORK personally in the medical indus....so thats all im saying and mm will be LEGAL.

Yeah, let people cry and bitch about the topic at hand.

They're stating their opinion about the topic rather than just saying "yeeeh, smoke weed every day" like I said in my previous post(which was exactly what you were doing).

I've smoked it before(long time ago) and see the pros/cons to it. I don't have a problem with the government finally legalizing it because there's other things out there that are actually worse for you and still perfectly legal, but when you come in here posting comments like that, they annoy the fuck out of me.

It's like comparing a cheap S-chassis owner to an S-chassis owner who actually gives a shit about his car. The cheap S-chassis owners make the entire community look bad by giving us that stupid ass stereotype.

People who say "smoke weed every day!" and "fuck the police" annoy me.

Random: GF and I were at Six Flags on Goliath. Dumb ass wanna-be gangster looking idiot pulls one out and starts smoking on our way up. Then, out of nowhere, yells out "fuck the police!".

You know what the funny part was? Idiot was thrown out of the park not even 1 hour after it had opened.

Oh, the laughs we had.

[ESmorz]

It's way too tense in here for a Marijuana thread.

You all need to relax.




I'm all for experimental legislation. Why not legalize it for a year or two in a sense on a probationary period? If the country or state gets Reefer Madness, everyone is dying of lung cancer, and the dudes in the cubicles next to smokers keep getting a contact high and can't get their work done because they eat Peggy's lunch even though it was obviously marked "Peggy's lunch"... Repeal the shit out of it and it will be like it never happened and we can go back to the black market and all that good stuff.

[S14_Kouki]

Originally Posted by PHLIP

Is anyone talking paper, fuel, lotion or anything else born from legalization?
Is anyone doing anything more than the "smoke weed e'ey day!" argument?
Does anyone enter bother entering academic arguments for legalization?

NO!!!

and that is why I hate potheads.

Yes I actually wrote alot about how hemp (about 1 or 2 pages back) can help us and how marijuana can indeed help us alot. So lets not start saying everyone here is just saying lets get high.

[S14_Kouki]

Originally Posted by S13Boosts

Either way the government will try and make some money out of it, its all about the MONEY.

The government already makes money off of medical marijuana sales in Oakland,CA. They already have a tax system set up medical marijuana facilities will have to pay 18$ to every 1000$ they make. And yes that has already started.

[S13Boosts]

Originally Posted by CrimsonRockett

Yeah, let people cry and bitch about the topic at hand.

They're stating their opinion about the topic rather than just saying "yeeeh, smoke weed every day" like I said in my previous post(which was exactly what you were doing).

I've smoked it before(long time ago) and see the pros/cons to it. I don't have a problem with the government finally legalizing it because there's other things out there that are actually worse for you and still perfectly legal, but when you come in here posting comments like that, they annoy the fuck out of me.

It's like comparing a cheap S-chassis owner to an S-chassis owner who actually gives a shit about his car. The cheap S-chassis owners make the entire community look bad by giving us that stupid ass stereotype.

People who say "smoke weed every day!" and "fuck the police" annoy me.

Random: GF and I were at Six Flags on Goliath. Dumb ass wanna-be gangster looking idiot pulls one out and starts smoking on our way up. Then, out of nowhere, yells out "fuck the police!".

You know what the funny part was? Idiot was thrown out of the park not even 1 hour after it had opened.

Oh, the laughs we had.

I get what ur saying but i never POSTED A POST saying SMOKE WEED ALL DAY????? is that what you tryn say?? like you said everybodys posting there own opinions..everybody is just getting butt hurt in this thread,its mostly people that are aganist canbis.

[CrimsonRockett]

Originally Posted by S13Boosts

I get what ur saying but i never POSTED A POST saying SMOKE WEED ALL DAY????? is that what you tryn say?? like you said everybodys posting there own opinions..everybody is just getting butt hurt in this thread,its mostly people that are aganist canbis.

Read below.

Originally Posted by S13Boosts

lol IT WILL BE LEGAL ONE DAY NUFF SAID & of course the fucking GOV is gon tax it DUH fuck em tho!

Immature post.

The deleted posts:

Originally Posted by S13Boosts

Let me do a quick POLL, WHO SMOKE BUD HERE?

Why does this matter? We're trying to carry an adult conversation and you come in here with that.

Originally Posted by S13Boosts

It just sounds like people are crying and bitching about this topic in the thread..if you dont smoke bud or hate it for what ever reason just quit it gtfo this thread,thats just it, I WORK personally in the medical indus....so thats all im saying and mm will be LEGAL.

Again, having a conversation, debating and stating opinions is the whole point of this thread.

Originally Posted by S13Boosts

I second that!, you gotta ask your self a question WHO doesnt smoke DANK? & IT WILL BE LEGAL.

YOU didn't say it, but you sure as hell agreed to it.

Again, immature posts do nothing but get threads like this locked.

If all you're going to say is "fuck the govt", "IT WILL BE LEGAL", and "quit crying/bitching", you're not helping with the argument...at all. People who have this type of mindset are the reason why I would prefer them NOT to make it legal.

There's more than one side to every story. You never once bothered saying WHY it should be legal.

You should try that next time.

[DALAZ_68]

this thread is spiraling down a crap factory road...


personally i used to smoke this, legally, had a perscription card ...pretty much for back pain and my shoulder after having Orthoscopic surgery...

its helped a good deal...but buying was annoying...the smell was annoying...the affects were annoying...i never drove while under the influence...fuck that

all im sayin is, if it becomes legal, i hope its strict as fuck to help avoid injury to others, I.E. restrictive licenses, heavy tax...

and heavier penalties to those who are caught buying from non perscribing sources...and im talking jail time...

that is my opinion

[I LUV MY S13]

damn i cant remember where i read this but at one point in time marijuana was almost 90% of the worlds paper/medical source..

oh and marijuana hasnt been proven to kill braincells it just impares your judgement and makes you temporarily stupid..

[S13Boosts]

Originally Posted by CrimsonRockett

Read below.



Immature post.

The deleted posts:



Why does this matter? We're trying to carry an adult conversation and you come in here with that.



Again, having a conversation, debating and stating opinions is the whole point of this thread.




YOU didn't say it, but you sure as hell agreed to it.

Again, immature posts do nothing but get threads like this locked.

If all you're going to say is "fuck the govt", "IT WILL BE LEGAL", and "quit crying/bitching", you're not helping with the argument...at all. People who have this type of mindset are the reason why I would prefer them NOT to make it legal.

There's more than one side to every story. You never once bothered saying WHY it should be legal.

You should try that next time.

oh i got chu bro, but i say we close this thread i say everybody just wait till it gets legal LOL than we can discuss.

[DALAZ_68]

Originally Posted by I LUV MY S13

damn i cant remember where i read this but at one point in time marijuana was almost 90% of the worlds paper/medical source..

so were other, harsher, deadlier drugs

fuck once our culture believe perpously shoving a tape worm down ur throat was a GREAT way to loose wait...

and you know what history repeats itself

Tapeworm Diet

and so on with marijuana

Originally Posted by I LUV MY S13

oh and marijuana hasnt been proven to kill braincells it just impares your judgement and makes you temporarily stupid..

G...i wonder why its currently illegal...

[I LUV MY S13]

Originally Posted by DALAZ_68

G...i wonder why its currently illegal...

because ppl abuse it and make stupid decisions

[DALAZ_68]

Originally Posted by I LUV MY S13

because ppl abuse it and make stupid decisions

human nature at its finest...

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by S13Boosts

oh i got chu bro, but i say we close this thread i say everybody just wait till it gets legal LOL than we can discuss.

Seriously are you mentally retarded?

People abusing it and not being MATURE about the substance IS what is stopping it from being legalized IMO. Like has been stated there are tons of benefits from the hemp, and medicinal marijuana does have positives.

[BustedS13]

let's get back on track.

TALKING POINT #1:
Decriminalizing marijuana frees up police resources to deal with more serious crimes.

TALKING POINT #2:
Far more harm is caused by the criminal prohibition of marijuana than by the use of marijuana itself.

TALKING POINT #3:
Decriminalization does not lead to greater marijuana use.

TALKING POINT #4:
Criminal laws prohibiting marijuana possession do not deter marijuana use.

TALKING POINT #1: Decriminalizing marijuana frees up police resources to deal with more serious crimes.

60,000 individuals are behind bars for marijuana offenses at a cost to taxpayers of $1.2 billion per year.
REFERENCE: Marijuana Arrests and Incarceration in the United States. 1999. The Federation of American Scientists' Drug Policy Analysis Bulletin.

Taxpayers annually spend between $7.5 billion and $10 billion arresting and prosecuting individuals for marijuana violations. Almost 90 percent of these arrests are for marijuana possession only.
REFERENCE: NORML. 1997. Still Crazy After All These Years: Marijuana Prohibition 1937-1997: A report prepared by the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) on the occasion of the Sixtieth anniversary of the adoption of the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937. Washington, DC; Federal Bureau of Investigation's combined Uniform Crime Reports: Crime in the United States (1990-2000): Table: Arrest for Drug Abuse Violations. U.S. Department of Justice: Washington, DC.

The state of California saved nearly $1 billion dollars from 1976 to 1985 by decriminalizing the personal possession of one ounce of marijuana, according to a study of the state justice department budget.
REFERENCE: M. Aldrich and T. Mikuriya. 1988. Savings in California marijuana law enforcement costs attributable to the Moscone Act of 1976. Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 20: 75-81.

New Mexico's 2001 state-commissioned Drug Policy Advisory Group determined that marijuana decriminalization "will result in greater availability of resources to respond to more serious crimes without any increased risks to public safety."
REFERENCE: New Mexico Governor's Drug Policy Advisory Group. 2001. Report and Recommendations to the Governor's Office. State Capitol: Santa Fe.

Marijuana arrests have more than doubled since 1991, while adult use of the drug has remained stable. During this same period, the number of arrests for cocaine and heroin fell by approximately 33 percent.
REFERENCE: Bureau of Justice Statistics. 2000. Drugs and Crime Facts. Table: Number of Arrests by Drug Type, 1982-99. U.S. Department of Justice: Washington, DC; U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. 1996. National Household Survey on Drug Abuse: Main Findings (1990- 1999). DHHS Printing Office: Rockville, MD.

Police arrest more Americans per year on marijuana charges than the total number of arrestees for all violent crimes combined, including murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assault.
REFERENCE: Federal Bureau of Investigation. 2001. Uniform Crime Report: Crime in the United States, 2000. Table 29: Total estimated arrests in the United States, 2000. U.S. Department of Justice: Washington, DC.

Marijuana violations constitute the fifth most common criminal offense in the United States.
REFERENCE: Bureau of Justice Statistics. 2000. Drugs and Crime Facts. Table: Estimated totals of top 7 arrest offenses, United States, 1999. U.S. Department of Justice: Washington, DC.

More than 734,000 individuals were arrested on marijuana charges in 2000. Eighty-eight percent of those arrested were charged with marijuana possession only.
REFERENCE: Federal Bureau of Investigation. 2001. Uniform Crime Report Crime in the United States, 2000. Table: Arrest for Drug Abuse Violations. U.S. Department of Justice: Washington, DC.

Almost 5 million Americans have been arrested for marijuana since 1992. That's more than the entire populations of Alaska, Delaware, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington DC and Wyoming combined.
REFERENCE. Federal Bureau of Investigation. Uniform Crime Reports: Crime in the United States (1993-2000). Table: Arrest for Drug Abuse Violations. U.S. Department of Justice: Washington, DC.


TALKING POINT #2: Far more harm is caused by the criminal prohibition of marijuana than by the use of marijuana itself.

According to editors of the prestigious Lancet British medical journal: "The smoking of cannabis, even long-term, is not harmful to health. ... It would be reasonable to judge cannabis as less of a threat ... than alcohol or tobacco."
REFERENCE: Deglamorising Cannabis. 1995. The Lancet 346: 1241. Editorial. November 14, 1998. The Lancet.

According to a 1999 federally commissioned report by the National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine (IOM), "Except for the harms associated with smoking, the adverse effects of marijuana use are within the range tolerated for other medications."
REFERENCE: National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine (IOM). 1999. Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base. National Academy Press: Washington, DC, 5.

The National Academy of Sciences further found, "There is no conclusive evidence that the drug effects of marijuana are causally linked to the subsequent abuse of other illicit drugs."
REFERENCE: National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine (IOM). 1999. Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base. National Academy Press: Washington, DC, 6.

More than 76 million Americans have admittedly tried marijuana. The overwhelming majority of these users did not go on to become regular marijuana users, try other illicit drugs, or suffer any deleterious effects to their health.
REFERENCE: Combined data from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. 1996. National Household Survey on Drug Abuse: Main Findings 1994. Rockville, MD and 1995. National Household Survey on Drug Abuse: Population Estimates 1994; Deglamorising Cannabis. 1995. The Lancet 346: 1241. Sydney Morning Herald, February 18, 1997.

According to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 35 percent of adults admit to having tried marijuana. Of these, only 5 percent have used marijuana in the past year, and only 3 percent have used marijuana in the past month.
REFERENCE: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. 2000. National Household Survey on Drug Abuse. Table G.9. Percentages Reporting Lifetime, Past Year, and Past Month Use of Illicit Drugs Among Persons Aged 26 or Older: 1999. DHHS Printing Office: Rockville, MD.

According to former U.S. President Jimmy Carter: "Penalties against drug use should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself. Nowhere is this more clear than in the laws against the possession of marijuana in private for personal use."
REFERENCE: President Jimmy Carter: Message to Congress, August 2, 1977.

Convicted marijuana offenders are denied federal financial student aid, welfare and food stamps, and may be removed from public housing. Other non-drug violations do not carry such penalties. In many states, convicted marijuana offenders are automatically stripped of their driving privileges, even if the offense is not driving related.
REFERENCE: Section 483, Subsection F of the Higher Education Act of 1998; Amendment 4935 to the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996; U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics. 1992. Drugs, Crime, and the Justice System. U.S. Department of Justice: Washington DC; NORML's State Guide to Marijuana Penalties.

Under federal law, possessing a single marijuana cigarette or less is punishable by up to one year in prison and a $10,000 fine, the same penalty as possession of small amounts of heroin, cocaine or crack.
REFERENCE: J. Morgan and L. Zimmer. 1997. Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts: A Review of the Scientific Evidence. The Lindesmith Center: New York, 42.

In several states, marijuana offenders may receive maximum sentences of life in prison.
REFERENCE: NORML's State Guide to Marijuana Penalties.

A recent national study found that blacks are arrested for marijuana offenses at higher rates than whites in 90 percent of 700 U.S. counties investigated. In 64 percent of these counties, the black arrest rate for marijuana violations was more than twice the arrest rate for whites.
REFERENCE: J. Gettman. 2000. United States Marijuana Arrests, Part Two: Racial Differences in Drug Arrests. The NORML Foundation: Washington, DC.


TALKING POINT #3: Decriminalization does not lead to greater marijuana use.

Government studies conclude that marijuana decriminalization has had virtually no effect on either marijuana use or beliefs and related attitudes about marijuana among American young people in those states that have enacted such a policy.
REFERENCE: L. Johnson et al. 1981. Marijuana Decriminalization: The Impact on Youth 1975-1980. Monitoring the Future, Occasional Paper Series: Paper No. 13. Institute for Social Research, University of Michigan.

Citizens who live under decriminalization laws consume marijuana at rates less than or comparable to those who live in regions where the possession of marijuana remains a criminal offense.
REFERENCE: E. Single et al. 2000. The Impact of Cannabis Decriminalization in Australia and the United States. Journal of Public Health Policy 21: 157-186.

There is no evidence that marijuana decriminalization affects either the choice or frequency of use of drugs, either legal (such as alcohol) or illegal (such as marijuana and cocaine).
REFERENCE: C. Thies and C. Register. 1993. Decriminalization of marijuana and demand for alcohol, marijuana and cocaine. The Social Sciences Journal 30: 385-399.

States and regions that have maintained the strictest criminal penalties for marijuana possession have experienced the largest proportionate increase in use.
REFERENCE: Connecticut Law Review Commission. 1997. Drug Policy in Connecticut and Strategy Options: Report to the Judiciary Committee of the Connecticut Assembly. State Capitol: Hartford.

Rates of hard drug use (illicit drugs other than marijuana) among emergency room patients are substantially higher in states that have not decriminalized marijuana use. Experts speculate that this is because the lack of decriminalization may encourage the greater use of drugs that are even more dangerous than marijuana.
REFERENCE: K. Model. 1993. The effect of marijuana decriminalization on hospital emergency room episodes: 1975-1978. Journal of the American Statistical Association 88: 737-747 as cited by the National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine. Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base, 103.


TALKING POINT #4: Criminal laws prohibiting marijuana possession do not deter marijuana use.

Marijuana use remains consistent despite a high level of enforcement, and there is no detectable relationship between changes in enforcement and levels of marijuana use over time.
REFERENCE: J. Morgan and L. Zimmer. 1997. Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts: A Review of the Scientific Evidence. The Lindesmith Center: New York, 46.

Marijuana users believe that their behavior will go undetected; thus fear of arrest is usually not a factor in people's decisions whether or not to use it.
REFERENCE: Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse National Working Group on Addictions. 1998. Cannabis Control in Canada: Options Regarding Possession. Ottawa.

Marijuana laws have no "specific" deterrent impact on drug taking behavior. Studies show that marijuana offenders continue to use marijuana after their conviction at rates equal to those prior to their arrest. No relation between the actual or perceived severity of their previous sentence and subsequent use has been found.
REFERENCE: P. Erickson. 1980. Cannabis Criminals: The Social Effects of Punishment on Drug Users. Addiction Research Foundation: Toronto.

In surveys, most individuals cite health concerns and family responsibilities rather than legal concerns as their primary reasons for ceasing (or never initiating) marijuana use.
REFERENCE: National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine (IOM). 1982. Marijuana and Health. National Academy Press: Washington, DC.

A California police officer's study concluded, "The reduction in penalties for possession of marijuana for personal use does not appear to [be] a factor in people's decision to use or not use the drug."
REFERENCE: California State Office of Narcotics and Drug Abuse. 1977. A First Report on the Impact of California's New Marijuana Law. State Capitol: Sacramento.


Link: Marijuana Decriminalization Talking Points - NORML

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Originally Posted by BustedS13

let's get back on track......

that's exactly right. I think the decriminalization of "marijuana" will happen similar to the end of prohibition. The decision will eventually be up to the state. Some states will legalize it completely and it will eventually catch on. Even local municipalities will start to not enforce it even though their state may be a "no smoke" state.

But lets get this right. The reason why I'm for the legalization of cannabis is NOT so teenagers could get high! It's so cancer patients wouldn't have to go through their excruciating pain. So there could be advances in paper and fuel alternatives.

[S14_Kouki]

Originally Posted by Mi Beardo es Loco

that's exactly right. I think the decriminalization of "marijuana" will happen similar to the end of prohibition. The decision will eventually be up to the state. Some states will legalize it completely and it will eventually catch on. Even local municipalities will start to not enforce it even though their state may be a "no smoke" state.

But lets get this right. The reason why I'm for the legalization of cannabis is NOT so teenagers could get high! It's so cancer patients wouldn't have to go through their excruciating pain. So there could be advances in paper and fuel alternatives.

^This is what im saying^ But marijuana can help alot more then just cancer patients and hemp can be used for alot more then just paper.

[iHeartTheTouge]

I dont think we will see marijuana being legalized anytime soon. I think most people still immediately associate marijuana with crime, hippies, degenerates, and hard drugs like heroin. I hope we can see more states getting MM atleast in the next decade. I've had insomnia for as long as I can remember. I'd go a day or two without sleep sometimes. The usual would be 2-3 hours of sleep a night, but after smoking a little before bed, I fall asleep pretty quick and am well rested in the morning.

[SochBAT]

See why I love Busted's responses? They're almost ALWAYS dead-on.

For fuck sakes people, if you're defending the legalization of marijuana as a medicinal help, back it up.

The increased production of hemp would help us out notably. Hemp rope, clothing, fucking textiles up the wazoo. Durable as shit, and cheap as dirt.

Well, not really, but compared to other materials, then yea.

[BustedS13]

Originally Posted by Soooshi

See why I love Busted's responses? They're almost ALWAYS dead-on.

<3 u

did you know that marijuana is America's #1 cash crop? Cannabis brings in more annually than corn and wheat combined, and the vast majority of it isn't being taxed at any point in the process. Imagine how great it would be for the US economy if marijuana was legalized.

Oaksterdam News Network - America’s #1 Cash Crop: Cannabis

yeah, it's from "oaksterdam news". oh well.

[Touge Noob S13]

Originally Posted by iHeartTheTouge

I dont think we will see marijuana being legalized anytime soon. I think most people still immediately associate marijuana with crime, hippies, degenerates, and hard drugs like heroin.

I see it that way.

[S14_Kouki]

Originally Posted by iHeartTheTouge

I dont think we will see marijuana being legalized anytime soon. I think most people still immediately associate marijuana with crime, hippies, degenerates, and hard drugs like heroin.

This is because the majority of the population are narrow minded people who do as they are told and dont ask question and look away from facts because they think the government knows all and does nothing but good.

[S14_Kouki]

Originally Posted by BustedS13

<3 u

did you know that marijuana is America's #1 cash crop? Cannabis brings in more annually than corn and wheat combined, and the vast majority of it isn't being taxed at any point in the process. Imagine how great it would be for the US economy if marijuana was legalized.

Oaksterdam News Network - America’s #1 Cash Crop: Cannabis

yeah, it's from "oaksterdam news". oh well.

I knew this and its just another reason why we need to legalize

[Touge Noob S13]

Originally Posted by S14_Kouki

This is because the majority of the population are narrow minded people who do as they are told and dont ask question and look away from facts because they think the government knows all and does nothing but good.

I think its trashy, alot of other people view it as a dirty trashy habit as well.

[S14_Kouki]

Originally Posted by Touge Noob S13

I think its trashy, alot of other people view it as a dirty trashy habit as well.

Stupid closed minded people

[BustedS13]

Originally Posted by Touge Noob S13

I think its trashy, alot of other people view it as a dirty trashy habit as well.

and yet we live in a country/world where it's legal to smoke glamorous cigarettes and slam a decadent 40 of malt liquor.