Are there no new hotboi wheel brands sub 2k anymore?

[Farzam]

I sell a ton of mono/2pc Work and cast Heritage wheels to my customers in that price point. I’m honestly not a fan of much else for s-chassis/related vehicles. I suppose Gram Lights are cool, and I sell them on occasion.

I don’t sell Kansei but I should. Chris is a cool guy.

I wish there were more offerings like the “good old days” but Rohana and Forgestar are the alternatives. I can get those too if you lack taste.

Also thanks mav1178 for your insight.

[DRIFTER-M]

Just to bump this from the nether, Motegi picked up the Battle mold from MB and has reissued the Battle.

https://www.motegiracing.com/product.../mr154-battle/

[tuzzio]

Originally Posted by DRIFTER-M

MB and has reissued the Battle.

Am I the only one that thinks wheel manufacturers need to pay more attention to center caps and make them good looking? Those center caps drive me nuts.

Also, that dude Cody on facebook has chromed a few sets of these, and to be expected, they look excellent.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by tuzzio

Am I the only one that thinks wheel manufacturers need to pay more attention to center caps and make them good looking? Those center caps drive me nuts.

Also, that dude Cody on facebook has chromed a few sets of these, and to be expected, they look excellent.

Most definitely not. The center caps absolutely kill it for me.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Future240

Most definitely not. The center caps absolutely kill it for me.

Don't run center caps.

Problem solved.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by DRIFTER-M

Just to bump this from the nether, Motegi picked up the Battle mold from MB and has reissued the Battle.

https://www.motegiracing.com/product.../mr154-battle/

Oh Fuck Yes!!!!

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Oh Fuck Yes!!!!

Sees price, does math... Realizes 57DRs are like $200 more a set.


Fuck all that.

[1on1]

Originally Posted by DRIFTER-M

Just to bump this from the nether, Motegi picked up the Battle mold from MB and has reissued the Battle.

https://www.motegiracing.com/product.../mr154-battle/

Even though this is true. CST are still available on YAJ and have their own mold since they stamped their logo on the wheel. Project Mayhem dude supposedly can get them but the last time I checked, he was asking $1200 for a pair or something.

My pair: https://www.instagram.com/p/CNGisBunw14/ (I wish it was easier to just post the IMG link)

[DRIFTER-M]

Originally Posted by 1on1

Even though this is true. CST are still available on YAJ and have their own mold since they stamped their logo on the wheel. Project Mayhem dude supposedly can get them but the last time I checked, he was asking $1200 for a pair or something.

My pair: https://www.instagram.com/p/CNGisBunw14/ (I wish it was easier to just post the IMG link)

For sure. My understanding was MB bought the rights to use the mold in the states from CST / I can?t remember their parent company.

MB then gave it up / sold it? to Motegi.

I have thought about making CST center caps for the battles, because the CST logo is cooler. I wonder if the center caps are interchangeable?

CST makes cool, affordable wheels. $1200 a pair is DUMB, but yeah use to you could import a set for not much more than battles haha.

[mav1178]

You said ?JDM? so I?m just responding to that.

[mav1178]

Enkei is a good example of a well managed brand. Sure, their wheels may be more on the boring spectrum, but they make a good variety of wheels to fit a good variety of cars.

Wheels are like cars. Consumer habits change and wheel design, color, size, and fitment need to change to adapt to the market. Successful brands keep going by virtue of managing their customer base and dealer network well.

Enkei’s largest accounts are Tire Rack, Discount Tire Company, and other tire chains that also happen to sell wheels. It’s not unlike selling volume into Costco, you sell the larger distributors at cost so you can keep a target cost structure going and make money off the smaller shops.

[gbaby2089]

Can't you get a fair number of SSR/Advans/Gram Light for sub $2000 brand new? I know I paid considerably under $2000 for 17x9 Advans from a pretty well known retailer.

[DRIFTER-M]

Originally Posted by Farzam

I sell a ton of mono/2pc Work and cast Heritage wheels to my customers in that price point. I?m honestly not a fan of much else for s-chassis/related vehicles. I suppose Gram Lights are cool, and I sell them on occasion.

I don?t sell Kansei but I should. Chris is a cool guy.

I wish there were more offerings like the ?good old days? but Rohana and Forgestar are the alternatives. I can get those too if you lack taste.

Also thanks mav1178 for your insight.

Glad to see you still around. May contact you soon, about getting some wheels. What is your shop / site?

Originally Posted by mav1178

You said ?JDM? so I?m just responding to that.

Again, probably a bit of irony that was missed in my opener. I was going for the sarcasm, but the discussion turned much more serious than I anticipated, haha. I will even include "JDM" not necessarily by literal manufacturing, but on styled - stuff such as CST / MB is a great example, but alas, even that is gone.

Originally Posted by mav1178

Enkei is a good example of a well managed brand. Sure, their wheels may be more on the boring spectrum, but they make a good variety of wheels to fit a good variety of cars.

Wheels are like cars. Consumer habits change and wheel design, color, size, and fitment need to change to adapt to the market. Successful brands keep going by virtue of managing their customer base and dealer network well.

Enkei?s largest accounts are Tire Rack, Discount Tire Company, and other tire chains that also happen to sell wheels. It?s not unlike selling volume into Costco, you sell the larger distributors at cost so you can keep a target cost structure going and make money off the smaller shops.

Completely agree.

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

Can't you get a fair number of SSR/Advans/Gram Light for sub $2000 brand new? I know I paid considerably under $2000 for 17x9 Advans from a pretty well known retailer.

In 17's you can get close to $1500 +. I assume many are rocking 18s these days, like myself. Most SSR / GL are really close to 2k (if not past it with shipping) in decent sizing, last I checked Advans anything close to awesome sizing is easy 2k. You may can get like $100 or so below 2k, but that's really still not addressing the large $600 - $2000 gap problem for cool wheels IMO. It's just the way of the market these days I suppose. The sport is dying, cool cars are largely dying with politics playing a mega role as of late, and frankly - not much incentive to keep producing for a shrinking market I suppose. Sigh.

[AKADriver]

Would it seriously kill anyone who works at these wheel companies to go into their cad program and set the damn bolt pattern to 4x114.3? It's one less machining step, you bastards should be thanking me for streamlining your process

The worst are wheels like Enkei RPF1 where they clearly have a 4 lug casting and a 5 lug casting in each size and offset and they make a 4x100 in like 3 different offsets but 4x114.3 in only +45... WHO IS BUYING THAT? I know the Miata guys are buying the 4x100 low/med disk but are there that many more dudes with old Accords and Lancers who need the 4x114 high disk than the S13/kyusha/etc/market? I know that was a thing 20 years ago when '90s era Hondas drove the import wheel market but nowadays?

Funny thing is all the Hondas I see from that era are running on ET0 XXR/Drag/etc. with massive poke and stretch

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by AKADriver

Would it seriously kill anyone who works at these wheel companies to go into their cad program and set the damn bolt pattern to 4x114.3? It's one less machining step, you bastards should be thanking me for streamlining your process

The worst are wheels like Enkei RPF1 where they clearly have a 4 lug casting and a 5 lug casting in each size and offset and they make a 4x100 in like 3 different offsets but 4x114.3 in only +45... WHO IS BUYING THAT? I know the Miata guys are buying the 4x100 low/med disk but are there that many more dudes with old Accords and Lancers who need the 4x114 high disk than the S13/kyusha/etc/market? I know that was a thing 20 years ago when '90s era Hondas drove the import wheel market but nowadays?

Funny thing is all the Hondas I see from that era are running on ET0 XXR/Drag/etc. with massive poke and stretch

Keep in mind that the wheel makers with the lowest or most mature cost process often sell worldwide. It's how they are able to continue producing wheels that otherwise would have already died.

A "+45 4x114.3mm" wheel makes zero sense in the US... but only if you are thinking the wheels are only for the US... plenty of other 4x114.3mm cars out on the market that need high offset.

A simple search yields tons of small passenger cars in other markets that have zero value in the US.

[tuzzio]

Originally Posted by AKADriver

where they clearly have a 4 lug casting and a 5 lug casting in each size and offset

The "problem" here is that the lug holes are likely cast into the center core, and they are finish machined at a later date. I understand however, this would really just require them to pay for a new or modified core box. However, you also have to remember that core box is likely different for every size/ spoke design, and that gets expensive quick.

[AKADriver]

Originally Posted by tuzzio

The "problem" here is that the lug holes are likely cast into the center core, and they are finish machined at a later date. I understand however, this would really just require them to pay for a new or modified core box. However, you also have to remember that core box is likely different for every size/ spoke design, and that gets expensive quick.

For some wheels for sure, especially when the spokes extend all the way to the center. For others like the RPF1 where the center is just a 'dish' I think they really just have 4 and 5 lug castings. And plenty of inexpensive wheels just have a single casting for each size, which you can tell since the mounting surface face is just flat all the way across with no cast-in reliefs between the lugs.

But yeah. I've seen some horrible Volk CE28N reps where they clearly took a mold from a real 5x114.3 CE28N and then redrilled it to whatever, but there are cast-in flats where the 5x114.3 lug holes would've been. Embarrassing:

Originally Posted by mav1178

Keep in mind that the wheel makers with the lowest or most mature cost process often sell worldwide.

Sure, lots of southeast Asia market Mitsubishi-based or kei car based stuff, which is where a lot of these budget wheels are made (Thailand, PH, Malaysia)

A lot of it is also down to the Japanese companies dropping stuff that would mostly fit stock S13s, FCs, and other basically deprecated old cars. The fact that UP Garages routinely sell the typical 16" S13 fitment wheel sets for less than 20k yen tells me no one there is buying them anymore. Enkei used to have part numbers for 16x7 and 16x8 ET30 4x114.3 RPF1s but it no longer exists.

For me it's just not economical to spend $500 converting my car to 5 lug to buy a set of <$1000 wheels.

[tuzzio]

Originally Posted by AKADriver

For some wheels for sure, especially when the spokes extend all the way to the center. For others like the RPF1 where the center is just a 'dish' I think they really just have 4 and 5 lug castings. And plenty of inexpensive wheels just have a single casting for each size, which you can tell since the mounting surface face is just flat all the way across with no cast-in reliefs between the lugs.

I'd be curious what the tooling really looks like. Unfortunately, every width and offset likely requires a separate set of tools since this will dictate the shape of the face, distances, etc. Same with the hub bore, etc. I work in a foundry, and honestly even some very simple castings require a ton of core work.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by AKADriver

For me it's just not economical to spend $500 converting my car to 5 lug to buy a set of <$1000 wheels.

And for the manufacturers it is just not economical to make a small batch of wheels in a specific lug pattern.

Very few consumers understand how massive tooling costs are, and it is not just changing a design parameter on a CAD rendering. Before with 5Zigen, the factory making FN01R-Cs wanted upwards of $10k each variation of spoke design or backpad, so we would save money by just making a generic 17" flat spoke face, have 2 variations for backpad that can be used for both 4 and 5 lug bolt patterns, and either add material to the backpad for lower offset or just drill different bolt patterns as long as it didn't compromise the wheel strength.

Beyond that, there's also MOQ requirements, factories will not waste their time unless you order sufficient quantities or dollar amounts for wheels. At the end of the day high offset 414 wheels are not meant for this chassis, just leave it at that.

[tuzzio]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Very few consumers understand how massive tooling costs are.

This. But, its also not exactly common knowledge. You're talking about having a cope/drag (Top/bottom) set of tools, and any set of tools for cores as well. And it gets expensive quick. Especially since a lot of the stuff used to be made out of wood in pattern shops. The future is looking wild as they have 3D Sand printers now..but again, thats a million dollar machine to start.

[AKADriver]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Beyond that, there's also MOQ requirements, factories will not waste their time unless you order sufficient quantities or dollar amounts for wheels. At the end of the day high offset 414 wheels are not meant for this chassis, just leave it at that.

Right. It just seems like, given all these lead times ad so on, they just ended up missing the trend of our cars coming back in style/people spending a lot of money on them and both owners and wheel manufacturers lose. I can make stuff work... but I think of the reddit r/240SX crowd that just wants to go on a website and click 'buy' and get wheels that fit. Can't do that if you have a 4 lug car.

[xschylerx]

Originally Posted by AKADriver

Would it seriously kill anyone who works at these wheel companies to go into their cad program and set the damn bolt pattern to 4x114.3? It's one less machining step, you bastards should be thanking me for streamlining your process

I think another (or perhaps a big one, idk I'm just some dumbass on the internet) is that how many cars are being made nowdays in 4x114 that would also require a low offset?? and when most guys in our area swap to 5 lug that's a whole second market that gets taken out, from a business standpoint its just not worth it to carry something that will sit on the shelf for years before someone buys it.

I agree, I wish there were more new options for us 4 lug boys, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. (I've been wrong before) until then ill stick with my used 1200 big boy works and some long champs and call er a day

[tuzzio]

I don't personally like that wheel. Would look cool on a road race car though.

[BryanSayWhat]

Definitely grip, or maybe old school Koguchi/ K-Style (when they ran 17's f&r):

[yomisiu]

there were new sets of battles selling for 430 shipped on ebay from discount tire in 2018 lol



1200 for a pair that has a cool jdm stamp is laughable

[AKADriver]

Good hubs cost money and so would replacing all the wheels I already have, that's my reason for not doing so.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by tuzzio

Have you ever spent time on that subreddit? Because this simple logic would blow their minds.

Yes and basically what Corbic said. Their advice would see you with a blown engine.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Reddit and Logic don't go together.

Originally Posted by AKADriver

Good hubs cost money and so would replacing all the wheels I already have, that's my reason for not doing so.

That makes sense. I think were were talking more about those who are looking to purchase wheels for the first time vs though who have a collection already.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by AKADriver

Good hubs cost money and so would replacing all the wheels I already have, that's my reason for not doing so.

Bruh, Nissan OEM is $700, GKTech is $300.

Buy once, cry once. Problem solved

Wheel makers aren't going to invest in a dead chassis because a few dozen guys didn't 5-lug swap 20 years ago.

[FaLKoN240]

Staying 4 lug after your 3rd or 4th year owning a 240 knowing that you want anything over a 16" wheel is being stubborn lol

[AKADriver]

The only reason I would ever get over a 16" wheel is they stopped making tires other than Linglong crap in 205/60-15. 16" wheel options are thin too though, even in 5 lug, because even eg the NC Miata crowd wants 17" bling

If you want to give me $700 because that is nothing to you then go ahead, Rockefeller. If we're talking about $2k wheels here - and that's not a cheap set of wheels - that's a 35% tax.