2012 Presidential Election Thread! Let's kick it off early!

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Omarius Maximus

I need affordable healthcare. Voting for Obama.

When I need rich people to trickle down some wealth on my face; I'll vote for Romney.

Then why did my benefit coverage go down and premium go up with the affordable healthcare act?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

To say that's the only reason is silly though. The likelihood of becoming a successful politician is extremely unlikely, so to make money being a politician, you do have to be quite good.

Define "successful"?

Do you mean being elected? Elected for several decades? Actually accomplishing your STATED goals? Personnel Goals? Change and Hope you can believe in?

[ultimateforce]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Then why did my benefit coverage go down and premium go up with the affordable healthcare act?

Because the system is still setup to make profit. Obama at least tried to set the system on the right track. It's something.

[Omarius Maximus]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Then why did my benefit coverage go down and premium go up with the affordable healthcare act?

I should elaborate a bit further. I want to see what 2014 brings when healthcare becomes mandatory and affordable insurance exchanges are setup.

As far as your benefit coverage going down and your premium going up...well, that's private enterprise I'd think. Unless you have conclusive evidence that the affordable healthcare act is directly responsible...I'd just as soon wager that greedy insurance company is greedy.

[gbaby2089]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Define "successful"?

Do you mean being elected? Elected for several decades? Actually accomplishing your STATED goals? Personnel Goals? Change and Hope you can believe in?

Elected to major position or becoming dictator,etc.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Omarius Maximus

I should elaborate a bit further. I want to see what 2014 brings when healthcare becomes mandatory and affordable insurance exchanges are setup.

As far as your benefit coverage going down and your premium going up...well, that's private enterprise I'd think. Unless you have conclusive evidence that the affordable healthcare act is directly responsible...I'd just as soon wager that greedy insurance company is greedy.

Yes, I fell under "cadillac healthcare"... how dare I have good coverage. So rather then paying an extra $4,200 a person they company simply cut the plan!

So fuck you and your "Free Healthcare".

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by ultimateforce

Because the system is still setup to make profit. Obama at least tried to set the system on the right track. It's something.

What the fuck did he actually do? Seems to me like Nancy Polosi should be credited for it and not him. It's her cluster fuck of a congressional goodie bag.

Why are Federal Employees and Congressmen imune to the new regulations? They have exceptions written into it... oh thats right, cause it's SOOO awesome.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

He also made the Iranian nuclear program seem much further along than it really is. Even is Iran has the ability to enrich plutonium/uranium/whatever right now, look at how long it has taken North Korea to build a missile that wouldn't go into the sea less than 100 miles off the coast.

With the sanctions and support of most of the globe against the Iranian regime, it'll be a LONNNGGGG time.

And lets not forget that where the Obama admin. has taken steps to work with the Russians, Mitt has said that he considered Russia our number one foe.

So wait... you have access to Irans nuclear program to known exactly how far along they are? God damn dood, stop sitting here and give Obama a call, I'm sure the State Department or UN could use your help!


Also, North Korea =/ Iran.

If you paid any attention to the developments in RNK in the last... 10 years, you would realize that they have received near ZERO AID from China, Russia or any of the other "bad guys" in the world. While the West has spent 50 years thinking PRC and RNK are best fucking friends and PRC has them under control, resent data has shown... FUCK NOES!!

China actually cut RNK off of any military aid long again when they realized they had no control over what the RNK was doing. The RNK also see's China as just a much an enemy and traitor to the Revolution as we see our one time ally Russia, a begin semi-enemy that can't be trusted but must be worked with.

RNK's nuclear program has almost 100% be developed in house, with only limited outside support. Same goes for their ballistic missile systems. Nobody in the fucking world has been stupid enough to go "Here North Korea... have some ICBMs!!!".

Iran has actually already developed ICBMs.

Sajjil missiles: Sajjil means “baked clay” in Persian. These are a class of medium-range missiles that use solid fuel, which offer many strategic advantages. They are less vulnerable to preemption because the launch requires shorter preparation – minutes rather than hours. Iran is the only country to have developed missiles of this range without first having developed nuclear weapons.

This family of missiles centers on the Sajjil-2, a domestically produced surface-to-surface missile. It has a medium-range of about 2,200 km or 1,375 miles when carrying a 750-kg warhead. It was test fired in 2008 under the name,Sajjil. The Sajjil-2, which is probably a slightly modified version, began test flights in 2009. This missile would allow Iran to “target any place that threatens Iran,” according to Brig. Gen. Abdollah Araghi, a Revolutionary Guard commander.

The Sajjil-2, which is unlikely to become operational before 2012, is the most likely nuclear delivery vehicle—if Iran decides to develop an atomic bomb. But it would need to build a bomb small enough to fit on the top of this missile, which would be a major challenge.

The Sajjil program’s success indicates that Iran’s long-term missile acquisition plans are likely to focus on solid-fuel systems. They are more compact and easier to deploy on mobile launchers. They require less time to prepare for launch, making them less vulnerable to preemption by aircraft or other missile defense systems.
Iran could attempt to use Sajjiltechnologies to produce a three-stage missile capable of flying 3,700 km or 2,200 miles. But it is unlikely to be developed and actually fielded before 2015.

[Omarius Maximus]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Yes, I fell under "cadillac healthcare"... how dare I have good coverage. So rather then paying an extra $4,200 a person they company simply cut the plan!

So fuck you and your "Free Healthcare".

So how is a tax that is supposed to take effect in 2018 magically affecting your premiums today, genius?

Also, my healthcare won't be free; as everyone who is able will have to pay their fair share. The only difference is that it promises to be affordable for the folks that currently do not have any health coverage.

So really, go fuck yourself. I'll vote for the person looking out for my best interests. I suggest you do the same.

[KA24DESOneThree]

No, you won't. You'll vote for the person you think has your best interests at heart and you'll ignore the real issues. You'll vote based on assumptions, half-truths and misinformation. You'll vote selfishly, but you'll also vote in such a way that forces others to be unselfish. They have no choice but to ignore their best interests and you'll vote, selfishly, that you're entitled to what they've worked for. Disgusting.

We've the choice between two evils. Neither is lesser. In this instance, there is no proper vote. There is no rational, logical vote if one believes in true rights, in the idea that no man shall ever be subservient to another. The country has problems that no politician can truly solve as long as long as the current joke of "checks and balances" continues. Do you really think the Supreme Court can strike down a lucrative tax when the country is trillions in the hole?

The problems are regulation and taxation. The problem is that people think the emergency room is a doctor's office. The problem is that people have no respect for one another and regard bills as someone else's problem, as the rich trying to bilk the poor out of their hard-earned money. The problem is that individualism is being phased out for collectivism, and that collectivism is not voluntary and the mere fact that one is born here is consent enough to this immoral contract. The problem is that we feel we can continue writing checks we cannot afford because we are forced to be our brothers' keeper.

Profit is good for the health care industry. Profit is reinvestment, is research and development, is infrastructure. Profit lines pockets, yes, but profit also yields systems like hand-wash station cameras to ensure compliance with sanitary protocols and reduce infection rates. It is in the interest of profit that hospitals improve, as a hospital with lower accidental death rates is a hospital more people can trust for treatment as well as a hospital with a lower legal bill each month. Hilarious aside- businesses have set aside $1.4 trillion in cash reserves due to the uncertainty our fearless leaders have sailed us into. That money is not being invested in either their companies or inflation-hedging vehicles. They're foregoing the potential revenues of investment for the sake of safety.

This election isn't a choice between a taker and a giver, or a warrior and a pacifist or a noble teacher versus an ignoble fund manager. This election is between big government and bigger government, and we simpletons are practically forced to not only accept but endorse that which will ultimately destroy us.

TL;DR- If you're uninformed, underinformed or just plain stupid, please don't vote. You will help nothing by contributing your opinion and you'll encourage the bastards.

My apologies about the ranting nature of this post.

[MrSanchez925]

Gary johnson 2012!

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Omarius Maximus

So how is a tax that is supposed to take effect in 2018 magically affecting your premiums today, genius?

Also, my healthcare won't be free; as everyone who is able will have to pay their fair share. The only difference is that it promises to be affordable for the folks that currently do not have any health coverage.

So really, go fuck yourself. I'll vote for the person looking out for my best interests. I suggest you do the same.

Oh, my bad... Worst is yet to come I guess. Thank God Obama has curbed soaring health car and it has not gone up on average $3,000 per person in the last 3 years.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/blogEntry?id=17321046

WTF, link isn't to Fox News but ABC?!?

[Omarius Maximus]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Oh, my bad... Worst is yet to come I guess. Thank God Obama has curbed soaring health car and it has not gone up on average $3,000 per person in the last 3 years.

Rising Health Costs Undermine Obama Pledge to Curb Trend - ABC News

WTF, link isn't to Fox News but ABC?!?

So we can agree that your previous post was bullshit? Okay. Moving on...

Rising healthcare costs are not a new phenomena. Again, can you isolate exactly what part of his policy increased healthcare costs? And how much of that yearly increase was him specifically versus oh you know, the current healthcare insurance cost trend for the past decade?

Your Health Care Benefits, in Charts - NYTimes.com

[Omarius Maximus]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

No, you won't. You'll vote for the person you think has your best interests at heart and you'll ignore the real issues. You'll vote based on assumptions, half-truths and misinformation. You'll vote selfishly, but you'll also vote in such a way that forces others to be unselfish. They have no choice but to ignore their best interests and you'll vote, selfishly, that you're entitled to what they've worked for. Disgusting.

We've the choice between two evils. Neither is lesser. In this instance, there is no proper vote. There is no rational, logical vote if one believes in true rights, in the idea that no man shall ever be subservient to another. The country has problems that no politician can truly solve as long as long as the current joke of "checks and balances" continues. Do you really think the Supreme Court can strike down a lucrative tax when the country is trillions in the hole?

The problems are regulation and taxation. The problem is that people think the emergency room is a doctor's office. The problem is that people have no respect for one another and regard bills as someone else's problem, as the rich trying to bilk the poor out of their hard-earned money. The problem is that individualism is being phased out for collectivism, and that collectivism is not voluntary and the mere fact that one is born here is consent enough to this immoral contract. The problem is that we feel we can continue writing checks we cannot afford because we are forced to be our brothers' keeper.

Profit is good for the health care industry. Profit is reinvestment, is research and development, is infrastructure. Profit lines pockets, yes, but profit also yields systems like hand-wash station cameras to ensure compliance with sanitary protocols and reduce infection rates. It is in the interest of profit that hospitals improve, as a hospital with lower accidental death rates is a hospital more people can trust for treatment as well as a hospital with a lower legal bill each month. Hilarious aside- businesses have set aside $1.4 trillion in cash reserves due to the uncertainty our fearless leaders have sailed us into. That money is not being invested in either their companies or inflation-hedging vehicles. They're foregoing the potential revenues of investment for the sake of safety.

This election isn't a choice between a taker and a giver, or a warrior and a pacifist or a noble teacher versus an ignoble fund manager. This election is between big government and bigger government, and we simpletons are practically forced to not only accept but endorse that which will ultimately destroy us.

TL;DR- If you're uninformed, underinformed or just plain stupid, please don't vote. You will help nothing by contributing your opinion and you'll encourage the bastards.

My apologies about the ranting nature of this post.

Get over yourself. Stop being a lap dog for the people who've been running this country into the ground.

If you're paying a ballpark 20% of your gross income in taxes; that's perfectly fucking reasonable. That's how much everyone should be paying. But fuckers like Mitt pay a smaller percentage than that.

I'm sure you have hopes of making it out of poverty and joining the ranks of the 1%ers you so vehemently defend. But let's face it, it's not going to happen.

So in the mean time, why don't you focus on YOUR BEST INTEREST. Because I assure you, rich people will not defend you as much as you defend them.

[gbaby2089]

Originally Posted by Corbic

So wait... you have access to Irans nuclear program to known exactly how far along they are? God damn dood, stop sitting here and give Obama a call, I'm sure the State Department or UN could use your help!


Also, North Korea =/ Iran.

If you paid any attention to the developments in RNK in the last... 10 years, you would realize that they have received near ZERO AID from China, Russia or any of the other "bad guys" in the world. While the West has spent 50 years thinking PRC and RNK are best fucking friends and PRC has them under control, resent data has shown... FUCK NOES!!

China actually cut RNK off of any military aid long again when they realized they had no control over what the RNK was doing. The RNK also see's China as just a much an enemy and traitor to the Revolution as we see our one time ally Russia, a begin semi-enemy that can't be trusted but must be worked with.

RNK's nuclear program has almost 100% be developed in house, with only limited outside support. Same goes for their ballistic missile systems. Nobody in the fucking world has been stupid enough to go "Here North Korea... have some ICBMs!!!".

Iran has actually already developed ICBMs.

I copy/pasta'd your quote about Iran into google and it only turned up this page:

Iran's Ballistic Missile Program | The Iran Primer

Which says Iran won't be able to strike the US until 2020 (at earliest), but go ahead trust Paul Ryan, who has zero foreign policy knowledge or experience.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by Omarius Maximus

Get over yourself. Stop being a lap dog for the people who've been running this country into the ground.

If you're paying a ballpark 20% of your gross income in taxes; that's perfectly fucking reasonable. That's how much everyone should be paying. But fuckers like Mitt pay a smaller percentage than that.

I'm sure you have hopes of making it out of poverty and joining the ranks of the 1%ers you so vehemently defend. But let's face it, it's not going to happen.

So in the mean time, why don't you focus on YOUR BEST INTEREST. Because I assure you, rich people will not defend you as much as you defend them.

That's what you got out of my post? Get over yourself, as the people who've run this country into the ground want nothing more than for people like me to die or be imprisoned.

I support free trade, true capitalism and the respect and freedom capitalism represents. I do not support crony capitalism, corporatism, fascism or any variation of those. My system of belief requires men to trade willingly, without any force.

It's not "perfectly fucking reasonable to pay 20% in taxes." What examples of government do I see for the taxes I pay? I use no fire services, no police services, no ambulance services. I've not been attacked by the various countries we're occupying. My gas taxes pay for my road use and my sales taxes (as well as hotel taxes and tariffs on the goods I purchase) cover incidental usages of government services. I use no Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, food stamps or any other type of handout- I'd rather die in a gutter than take the redistributed wealth of others.

I have aspirations to become wealthy, yes. I am not currently impoverished and make okay money. The business I help manage is small, but does several million dollars in sales a year. Our overhead costs due to taxation, insurance and worker's comp are astronomical, higher than our hourly cost of labor. Couple that with expensive electricity and water due to government involvement and our profit margins are pathetically small.

My best interest is to talk to people like you, to extol the virtues not of crony capitalism and the conservative interests but rather the interests of the free man, something you and the conservatives are united against. I am merely asking you to think for a minute on whether or not it is morally correct to force a man to be his brother's keeper, with the threat of death or jail as the punishment for refusing to live his life for himself and only for himself.

[Omarius Maximus]

"Personal property is the effect of society; and it is as impossible for an individual to acquire personal property without the aid of society, as it is for him to make land originally.

Separate an individual from society, and give him an island or a continent to possess, and he cannot acquire personal property. He cannot be rich. So inseparably are the means connected with the end, in all cases, that where the former do not exist the latter cannot be obtained. All accumulation, therefore, of personal property, beyond what a man’s own hands produce, is derived to him by living in society; and he owes on every principle of justice, of gratitude, and of civilization, a part of that accumulation back again to society from whence the whole came."

-Thomas Paine

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

I copy/pasta'd your quote about Iran into google and it only turned up this page:

Iran's Ballistic Missile Program | The Iran Primer

Which says Iran won't be able to strike the US until 2020 (at earliest), but go ahead trust Paul Ryan, who has zero foreign policy knowledge or experience.

So wait...

The rest of the world does not count?

Europe, India, Israel? Fuck them all Iran can't reach the US for another 8 years?

What is Obama doing to turn that 8 year timeframe into "never"? What's the difference between 8 years, 3 years, today or 15 years?

You still have not clarified Iran's progress on the nukes themselves. Only took a room full of 1940's Scientists 3 years to make the Atom bomb and they didn't even have the Internet of 60 years of theory and testing to support them.

Who needs an ICBM when you can give it to Hamas, put it on an airplane or cargo ship....

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Omarius Maximus

Get over yourself. Stop being a lap dog for the people who've been running this country into the ground.

If you're paying a ballpark 20% of your gross income in taxes; that's perfectly fucking reasonable. That's how much everyone should be paying. But fuckers like Mitt pay a smaller percentage than that.

I'm sure you have hopes of making it out of poverty and joining the ranks of the 1%ers you so vehemently defend. But let's face it, it's not going to happen.

So in the mean time, why don't you focus on YOUR BEST INTEREST. Because I assure you, rich people will not defend you as much as you defend them.

Half the county pays negative taxes.

How can you get $4,500 back when you paid $Zero to start with?

You do realize big-government is the 1% ploy to pacify the unwashed masses, right? Give you just enough to survive, be unambiguous and shut the hell up.

What would happen I'd we stripped them if all these unearned entitlements and said "piss off"?

Open revolt maybe? Seems to happen everywhere without welfare - Russia, France, China, Korea, Turkey, Cuba, ect ect.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Half the county pays negative taxes.

How can you get $4,500 back when you paid $Zero to start with?

You do realize big-government is the 1% ploy to pacify the unwashed masses, right? Give you just enough to survive, be unambiguous and shut the hell up.

What would happen I'd we stripped them if all these unearned entitlements and said "piss off"?

Open revolt maybe? Seems to happen everywhere without welfare - Russia, France, China, Korea, Turkey, Cuba, ect ect.

So you agree that FDR saved this country from Communism? That seems to be the argument of many Leftist Accelerationists. I for one believe in a heavily regulated market economy with a strong safety net but your way of violent communist revolution of the proletariat seems dandy.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

So you agree that FDR saved this country from Communism? That seems to be the argument of many Leftist Accelerationists. I for one believe in a heavily regulated market economy with a strong safety net but your way of violent communist revolution of the proleteriate seems dandy.

No, believe he was delivering us into a his own version making himself all the more powerful.

Funny how in fully "we're all equal and the government provides everything" societies the disparity between rich and poor is even greater...

[Brian]

How come Liberals are so unaccepting of others' opinions?

[Omarius Maximus]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Half the county pays negative taxes.

How can you get $4,500 back when you paid $Zero to start with?

You do realize big-government is the 1% ploy to pacify the unwashed masses, right? Give you just enough to survive, be unambiguous and shut the hell up.

What would happen I'd we stripped them if all these unearned entitlements and said "piss off"?

Open revolt maybe? Seems to happen everywhere without welfare - Russia, France, China, Korea, Turkey, Cuba, ect ect.

Again Corbic; you're parroting "facts". Show me that half the country doesn't pay any tax; I'm genuinely curious to see your evidence. Show me how Social Security, and Medicare, both of which I've been paying into since the day I started working are "hand outs" to me when I retire.

You people need to get a grip on reality.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

So you agree that FDR saved this country from Communism? That seems to be the argument of many Leftist Accelerationists. I for one believe in a heavily regulated market economy with a strong safety net but your way of violent communist revolution of the proletariat seems dandy.

Originally Posted by Corbic

No, believe he was delivering us into a his own version making himself all the more powerful.

Funny how in fully "we're all equal and the government provides everything" societies the disparity between rich and poor is even greater...

This is a false premise. Show me evidence that the disparity is greater in socialist nations?

By the way, I support social democracy of the Norway and Sweden brand not despotic Cuba and Venezuela.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

This is a false premise. Show me evidence that the disparity is greater in socialist nations?

By the way, I support social democracy of the Norway and Sweden brand not despotic Cuba and Venezuela.

You have google, so why not use it.

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/201...s-bo-says.html

Also, I lived in Norway for a large portion of my life.

So your idea of the perfect society is a sparsely populated, homogeneous culture of white Christians living in a heavily government subsidized country based on its wealth of oil resources and totally reliant on other countries and geography for protection from others?

We could do that, but it would involve deporting all non-Anglo Christians and refusing to grant citizenship to anyone who is not born from a founding family...

Then our greatest contribution to the modern world could be the paper clip as well... Perfect society indeed.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by Brian

How come Liberals are so unaccepting of others' opinions?

[gbaby2089]

Originally Posted by Corbic

So wait...

The rest of the world does not count?

Europe, India, Israel? Fuck them all Iran can't reach the US for another 8 years?

What is Obama doing to turn that 8 year timeframe into "never"? What's the difference between 8 years, 3 years, today or 15 years?

You still have not clarified Iran's progress on the nukes themselves. Only took a room full of 1940's Scientists 3 years to make the Atom bomb and they didn't even have the Internet of 60 years of theory and testing to support them.

Who needs an ICBM when you can give it to Hamas, put it on an airplane or cargo ship....

I personally don't care if Iran gets a nuclear MISSILE to be honest, Ahmadinejad is a very intelligent, rational man; the US/our allies have NOTHING to worry about from Iran. You guys realize Pakistan has had nuclear capabilities for decades, right? I'd be a lot more worried about that than Iran.

Iran has the ability to govern its territory, Pakistan is worlds behind them.

But if it comes down to troops on the ground or our allies being threatened, they'd be threatened. Its time for the US to think inwardly for once, at least until domestic needs are better sorted.

You realize India has a nuclear program? Western Europe too (though ever shrinking). As for Israel, that's a situation that is made worse quite regularly by Israeli actions, you realize that Hamas had sign a peace treaty with Israel and Israel was the one who broke the treaty and started violence first? Israel would likely benefit from realizing they can't act without consequence.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

You realize India has a nuclear program? Western Europe too (though ever shrinking). As for Israel, that's a situation that is made worse quite regularly by Israeli actions, you realize that Hamas had sign a peace treaty with Israel and Israel was the one who broke the treaty and started violence first? Israel would likely benefit from realizing they can't act without consequence.

India has the most advanced nuclear programs in the world followed by Russia. They have wanted to nuke the shit out of China since the end of WWII.

US nuclear program is way behind(even Canada's is better). Thank all the fear mongering in the 1970's into 80's to having now old technology. Other countries buy our spent fuel rods to use in their reactors because they are that much more efficient.

[gbaby2089]

Originally Posted by S14DB

India has the most advanced nuclear programs in the world followed by Russia. They have wanted to nuke the shit out of China since the end of WWII.

US nuclear program is way behind(even Canada's is better). Thank all the fear mongering in the 1970's into 80's to having now old technology. Other countries buy our spent fuel rods to use in their reactors because they are that much more efficient.

Russia's is more advanced than ours? From what I've read their nuclear infrastructure is falling into disrepair due to lack of funding. I wouldn't doubt a textbook being wrong though, just interesting to here how misinformed.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

Russia's is more advanced than ours? From what I've read their nuclear infrastructure is falling into disrepair due to lack of funding. I wouldn't doubt a textbook being wrong though, just interesting to here how misinformed.

Yes - Russia now claims to have nuclear weapons that have such little radiation that "non-lethal" toxicity would last only 2-4 years. So they could nuke the shit out of someone and it would be just like before a few years latter. No more "OMFG End of the World" shit.

By Nuclear infrastructure you are thinking of their reactors and disposal sites from the 60's and 70's as well as their scrap yard of nuclear navel vessels. Russia never once stopped developing nuclear weapons despite the arms treaties. The suitcase nuke is very much a reality

As far as funding... you don't think those non-existant technology sales to Iran are at "fair market value" do you? You realize for the last 15 years Russia has had a strangle hold on Europe with the natural gas supply as well. Putin is no dumb-ass, and despite what the western media reports, most Russia by and large loves the guy.

As an old train worker once told me - "With Chernenko, we had pension at home, we had respect from world. With Yeltsin, we have neither".

Putin may not have fixed Russia's domestic problems, but he is fixing their global ones.