S-Chassis as future collector cars.

[VROOOM]

Originally Posted by svensko

Sooner or later, 240 owners will move up to the 350z, and the cycle will continue. If we woke up tomorrow and every car manufacturer stopped making RWD cars THEN I would say a 240 may increase in value a grand or two if it was stock and clean.

Think about it this way: You've just got a decent paying job, and you're looking to buy a car. You remember your mad tyte drifta days and consider looking at old 240SXs. You find a few, all with dented body panels, and all with hack job swaps. For the same price you find a RWD coupe that is brand new, comes with more power, and would be more reliable. Which would you go with?

15 years ago no one would have thought that hemi cuda's would fetch a million dollars

[svensko]

Originally Posted by VROOOM

15 years ago no one would have thought that hemi cuda's would fetch a million dollars

Look at what GM has been pumping out for the past 15 years. The only way to own a domestic is to make sure it's pre 70s.

If the 350z had a 1 litre 3 cylinder and an interior by Mattell then I could see the 240 being worth while.

Also, I doubt most cudas had hack job swaps, PHAT RIMZZZZZZ, JDM paint, etc etc etc.

[VROOOM]

never seen redneck ingenuity i guess

[ThatGuy]

Svensko, you really need to stop posting. All you are doing is spouting off crap. Make sure your brain is in "Drive" before you type in the future.

Stop grouping every 240 into your "half-assed" fantasy world. You are only making generalizations. The general public didn't create the Hemi 'Cudas or other Muscle Cars that are fetching Millions at Barret-Jackson. Enthusiasts who knew what they were doing and took the time to do it right, are.

[svensko]

Originally Posted by VROOOM

never seen redneck ingenuity i guess

You DO realize that the Hemi Cudas being sold for a million bucks are number matching, no accidents (no, not even drifting accidents), original paint, CLEAN original interior with low miles. It was also originally SOLD as a muscle car, NOT as a 'cute coupe'.

[svensko]

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

Svensko, you really need to stop posting. All you are doing is spouting off crap. Make sure your brain is in "Drive" before you type in the future.

Stop grouping every 240 into your "half-assed" fantasy world. You are only making generalizations. The general public didn't create the Hemi 'Cudas or other Muscle Cars that are fetching Millions at Barret-Jackson. Enthusiasts who knew what they were doing and took the time to do it right, are.

How am I spouting off crap? He brought up the muscle car agrument. Even Koopa agrees with me that it will die off. Yes, the 240SX is a nice car. However, it's not the only RWD coupe on the market. There's nothing 'special' about it that really stands out.

Nope, no half assing here:
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=172360
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=172402
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=172306

This thread reminds me of a thread that was on another (general) car forum about which cars of today will reach collector status. It got to the point where people started naming off mid-90s Pontiacs since they were "rare colors".

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by VROOOM

15 years ago no one would have thought that hemi cuda's would fetch a million dollars

Fail comparision. Hemi Cuda's were destined for collectability and Classic status because of the Hemi Engine(something a 240sx will never be known for in the states. Aka outragous engine lol). Shit that shit was legendary when I was in high and that was over 20 years ago. The only thing people did not realize 15 years ago was lesser American V8's from the 60's would become big because the absolute classics went stratospheric on value. Ya no one saw a million dollar value but they knew it was going to be worth bucks. As are 440 Darts!

Though ya, this discussion is really not about the value of Muscle cars. Its about the 240sx and if any of you bother to read my discourses above, you would learn what it takes to make a classic collectable.

[brewster240]

Originally Posted by svensko

Sooner or later, 240 owners will move up to the 350z, and the cycle will continue. If we woke up tomorrow and every car manufacturer stopped making RWD cars THEN I would say a 240 may increase in value a grand or two if it was stock and clean.

Think about it this way: You've just got a decent paying job, and you're looking to buy a car. You remember your mad tyte drifta days and consider looking at old 240SXs. You find a few, all with dented body panels, and all with hack job swaps. For the same price you find a RWD coupe that is brand new, comes with more power, and would be more reliable. Which would you go with?

everything you type is dumb.

i can afford a 350z now and im just as happy to have a 240.

when i comes down to the point of being collectable, reliability will not be a concern. its a hobby.

but im sure that why the hemi cudas and whatever else you bring up, fetch millions, cause they are so reliable.

and as far as redneck comments, you should do some research about nyc/nj back in the day, along with detroit and cali.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by svensko

How am I spouting off crap? He brought up the muscle car agrument. Even Koopa agrees with me that it will die off. Yes, the 240SX is a nice car. However, it's not the only RWD coupe on the market. There's nothing 'special' about it that really stands out.

Nope, no half assing here:
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=172360
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=172402
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=172306

This thread reminds me of a thread that was on another (general) car forum about which cars of today will reach collector status. It got to the point where people started naming off mid-90s Pontiacs since they were "rare colors".

See, Sven... You're problem is that you have an opinion here, and that opinion would be more valid if you just said it, then shut the fuck up... You're lack of anything that would make anyone with even an average level of intellect continue to read or even TRY to approach you in a positive manner is why so many people seem to be picking on you... See, I can agree with you on the IDEA that the 240SX will not be a collector's car, but you're REASONING is where it all gets fucked up. What is sad is that it is not ALL of your reasoning that turns it sour. I mean, to take the lowest denominator of a group of cars and use them as support for your idea is a failure, as they represent but a microcosm of the whole of the community that will exist when this discussion comes to fruition to be proved/disproved. Shit, that small fraction doesn't even apply to everyone with them now.
You're generalizing, not all 240SX owners half-ass their cars, some of us modify SUPER slowly so as to get it right the first time. On the other side of that, not all owners of the cars that are CURRENTLY collectors did their cars right, thusly upping what makes them collectors and enhancing the value of the ones that are not done right.
What we're seeing now is magazines, movies and other media outlets influencing children, who will go out and thin the numbers of available cars/parts that will be available in 5/10/20 years. Does this sound familiar? Why is my neighbor having such a shitty time finding parts for his all-original 68 Z28? Because he REFUSES to bastardize the integrity/value of the car, even though he will never sell it. Yes, I can draw a parallel to that car and my coupe sitting out in front of my house, but for a car being sustained on modifiability, such a comparison is silly to make.
Please stop and think before you post, you JUST might see the number of red squares below your name go down a little.

[svensko]

Originally Posted by PHLIP

Stuff

Good points but I'll stick to my opinion. I honestly couldn't care less about red squares under my name.

Originally Posted by brewster240

but im sure that why the hemi cudas and whatever else you bring up, fetch millions, cause they are so reliable.

You honestly think that car will ever see a public road?

[brewster240]

your a dope.

you said a 240 wont be worth anything cause it wont be reliable, and you will be able to buy something new, for the same price.


so my point was, if thats the case, why do people buy super expensive muscle cars, when they could buy something nice, new and reliable.

you're so dumb you are confusing yourself.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by svensko

Good points but I'll stick to my opinion. I honestly couldn't care less about red squares under my name.

Good luck finding the forest in all those damned trees.
There was a lot more to that post than just red squares, the fact of the matter is that your presence does very little for us if you're completely unwilling to be a decent human being, why do you even bother?

[JRas]

I think it's possible

240z is what you should get

[ranger240]

for every surviving 240sx twenty years from now (its only 6-7 years until 240sx's start getting classic plates ) there are going to be tons of former owners who generally all had a positive experience and like the car, and lots will miss um (like many former s-chassis owners do) nostalgia will definitely kick in for some of them enough to want another.

as to the argument trying to paralleling top end muscle cars to s chassis, in the u.s. theres a chance that imported silvias and 180sx could be worth big(ger) bucks due to the scarcity and reputation / almost legend of those cars).

motorex imported r32s and r34s are definately going to be worth quite a bit, call those the shelby cobras/shelby mustangs of the nissan future classic car family.. while we're at it silvias/180sx's can be boss429's and mach1's...

i dont agree with that muscle car argument but there is some validity to it


we're all speculators of the future classic car market right now, lets not get too opinionated and start bashing the hell outta each other, no opinion can be proven right for a few more years, so chill fighting soo much about it

[atom]

240's have never been known in the US as great performance cars stock the same way other cars have been. FD's and JZ80's are the only imports from the 90's that have a chance IMO to get to that level. Possibly Z32. But definitely not a S-Chassis car.

The bottom line is anything is collectible given enough time. But I think if/when it ever becomes real collectible, the 240 is gonna be more like the AMC Gremlin than a '64 mustang.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by atom

The bottom line is anything is collectible given enough time. But I think if/when it ever becomes real collectible, the 240 is gonna be more like the AMC Gremlin than a '64 mustang.

I can see the 240 ending up a lot like the '64 mustang.
Considered a classic, but there are still plenty out there, being driven around as dailys, and except for rare models, really not worth that much.

[axiomatik]

for those knocking on the 240's stock performance, the '64 mustang wasn't exactly a performance icon either.

bottom line, what determines whether or not something becomes a collectable is the willingness of people to plop down good sums of money to buy them. and that urge is generally driven by nostalgia. 30 years from now, you'll be think back to when you had a fun, light weight fast rwd car that was easy to work on and want to enjoy that experience again. Sure the FD's and supras will be at the top of the pile price-wise, but there are so few of those that people will snap up 240's when they can't afford the FD they always wanted.

[Yuri]

In the future, when a lightweight sport coupe weighs 6200lbs....

[exitspeed]

^
Yea, a lot of old "muscle cars" ran 15's and still do.

A cars value is based on what people are willing to pay for it. There are other factors in the equation, but that is the main factor.

Like I said before, I'd be willing to pay a hefty price for a bone stock Lavender Frost Coupe 20 years down the road.

[Koopa Troopa]

Originally Posted by axiomatik

for those knocking on the 240's stock performance, the '64 mustang wasn't exactly a performance icon either.

Yeah, I watched the History Channel segment on the Mustang and the dude who designed the 64.5 Mustang said the car was built for housewives who wanted a sporty yet economic car. He said he was really surprised that the car became a hit with dudes.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by Koopa Troopa

Yeah, I watched the History Channel segment on the Mustang and the dude who designed the 64.5 Mustang said the car was built for housewives who wanted a sporty yet economic car. He said he was really surprised that the car became a hit with dudes.

Funny and EXTREMELY ironic things hide under the message of this post.

**coughsecretarycarscoughcough**

[Koopa Troopa]

Yeah, S chasis was also targeted towards women..

[atom]

Originally Posted by Yuri

I can see the 240 ending up a lot like the '64 mustang.
Considered a classic, but there are still plenty out there, being driven around as dailys, and except for rare models, really not worth that much.

But do you really ever think a 240 will ever be called a classic?

IMO part of being a "classic" car is the impact it had on automotive history. I mean the S13 sold decently well but that was about it. The 240 is sort of an oddity in that they didn't become hot cars here until way after it was discontinued and that was because of drifting.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by atom

But do you really ever think a 240 will ever be called a classic?

IMO part of being a "classic" car is the impact it had on automotive history. I mean the S13 sold decently well but that was about it. The 240 is sort of an oddity in that they didn't become hot cars here until way after it was discontinued and that was because of drifting.

So the 240 hasn't had an impact on the industry?

Maybe not when it first came out, but it certainly has made an impact in the last 5 years. It can partially be credited for every manufacturer scrambling to come out with a new RWD car right now.

[atom]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

So the 240 hasn't had an impact on the industry?

Maybe not when it first came out, but it certainly has made an impact in the last 5 years. It can partially be credited for every manufacturer scrambling to come out with a new RWD car right now.

You can thank the Z33 for that, not the 240. If anything the 240 played a very minor role.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by atom

You can thank the Z33 for that, not the 240. If anything the 240 played a very minor role.

I'll have to disagree.
Most of the companies coming out with affordable FRs are responding to the cult like status the 240 has gotten recently.
There is an army of potential buyers already in place, and they currently own S-chassis, not Z33's.
When speaking with designers and engineers from various automotive companies, the 350Z was mentioned only in passing, because for most buyers, it wasn't in their price range.
I've been on top of this market for years.
My first semester senior thesis at CCS was researching this market and creating a car for Toyota to enter this niche with.
I've done 4 months of focused research on this market.
What have you done?

[atom]

With the S-Chassis getting trendy, companies can infer the viability of cheap RWD sports/sporty cars. The Z33 and S2000 PROVED to Jap. companies with hard numbers there was a RWD sports/sporty car market to begin with.

If the S2000 and Z33 bombed, how much sway does the 240's popularity have then?

[usdm180sx]

Originally Posted by atom

But do you really ever think a 240 will ever be called a classic?

IMO part of being a "classic" car is the impact it had on automotive history. I mean the S13 sold decently well but that was about it. The 240 is sort of an oddity in that they didn't become hot cars here until way after it was discontinued and that was because of drifting.

Well, that's unique right there. All the automotive magazines raved on how balanced the chassis was but complained about the ka and yearned for the sr. The only other balanced car that was on the level or exceeded it was the porsche 944.

What do you have against the 240sx anyway?

[atom]

??? If I had anything against the 240 I wouldn't own one. I'd have a Supra or a Z33 or whatever. I like my S14 better than all those cars. But my personal preference has nothing to do with how I think other people perceive the car.

[usdm180sx]

Oh okay. It just seems like you're downplaying the car.

Kinda sucks that it was glorified by drifting but it is the only car that was recognized after it was produced because of a motorsport. Well, the ae86 corolla too.

In that sense it already is a collector's car don't you think?