At last, depowered the rack.

[xs240]

^hahaha 'even if there's a fire' :P

[kabukie]

So I finally got around to taking apart a rack and doing this mod. Here are some pictures for those who need a visual reference. I am waiting on some rack bushings and $$$ for an alignment so I can install mine and check the feel difference. Anyhow here are the pics of the 240sx rack



Closer look at the parts



Heres the center seal



Center Seal removed

[Bigsyke]

Excellent job man.

Now when you reinstall, if you decide to keep the spring, hardly tighten it. You want almost no drag on the shaft, only enough to keep the shaft against the gear.

[JRas]

I don't know how you do it

240sx already has great steering feedback IMO

it's stiff but not light near perfect

what kind of driving do you do?

[Bigsyke]

daily driving autox/road racing.

Mostly daily driving, its perfect.

Ill never go back, you have 100% feedback from your suspension, I can tell exactly which part on my suspension is warn.

With power steering you have a damper. You cant truely feel the full effects of your suspension when you dont have a direct link to the ground.

I feel like im driving an f40

[Def]

No PS does feel good, but when going fast it really tires you out. I would feel completely worn out after a day of tracking with no PS, but with PS I find I'm much more alert at the end of the day without fighting the wheel.

[420sx]

wow. i guess to each its own. i can't imagine drifting with no power steering

[Bigsyke]

again like ive said before;

there is a difference between looping the rack, and removing the seal, greasing the rack and removing the tensioner

[schmauster]

too bad the 240s never came with manual steering... I drift my hardbody 24DET without power steering from the factory and becides turning the wheel 12509712057 times i dont have any complaints

[Ruff Ryder 6]

Originally Posted by Bigsyke

Excellent job man.

Now when you reinstall, if you decide to keep the spring, hardly tighten it. You want almost no drag on the shaft, only enough to keep the shaft against the gear.

So you're saying that i don't need the spring in there when i reassemble it? just making sure because i got my spare rack tonite and would like to do the tension right before i put it on the car.

[Bigsyke]

Originally Posted by Ruff Ryder 6

So you're saying that i don't need the spring in there when i reassemble it? just making sure because i got my spare rack tonite and would like to do the tension right before i put it on the car.

You can keep it, but do NOT torque it to factory specs.

You want almost NO drag on the shaft. Its only there to keep the shaft pressed against the gear. I removed mine.

If your doing alot of drifting I suggest you keep it because it will help prevent gear wear.

Yes tighten it outside of the car, this was you can see when the spring contacts the shaft. Then tighten the locking nut.

[Ruff Ryder 6]

don't plan on drifting with it, i plan on auto-x/track with it but that doesn't mean i won't slide it around on occasion having fun. so i suppose i will see what it feels like when i get it back together.

[xs240]

I have a spare HICAS rack i feel like trying this but im still a bit weary, not really a step by step take apart, put back together guide.

[SPiG]

To those who did it, which type of grease did you use? Not just brand but more of how thick it was. Amsoil has quite the selection and I am not sure if the Series 2000 would give a lighter steering and less resistance or a heavy duty one give better protection.

[Bigsyke]

Originally Posted by SPiG

To those who did it, which type of grease did you use? Not just brand but more of how thick it was. Amsoil has quite the selection and I am not sure if the Series 2000 would give a lighter steering and less resistance or a heavy duty one give better protection.

Removal and disassembly of the rack is quite novice. I used the blue amsoil grease, the FSM i believe tells you to use petroleum jelly.

[Caithness]

Well I'm a procrastinator and I just started working on this.

Has anybody tried simply pressing the metal center seal off with a hydraulic press? It almost looks pressed on when I look at it in person, but looking at the cut version in those pictures it looks like it fits into those grooves- not a press fit. Anybody who's seen a cut seal in person- does it look like it could be pressed off or is it locked into those grooves somehow?

*edit* I tried pressing off the metal seal and it didn't go well. The metal seal was deforming and I swear my eyes were playing tricks on me but it looked like the rack was starting to flex. I put a good bit of force on it and it didn't come off. After cutting the seal off I saw that it's locked into those grooves in the rack with a metal lock ring and by a lip on the seal itself. This isn't the job to justify that $300 press purchase with- cutting is the way to go.

Also, did anybody else have a horrible time getting the end cap off of the steering rack? I had to go buy a $20 3/4" drive 1-5/8" socket and 1/2"-3/4" adapter and I had to impact it for like five minutes straight to slowly loosen it until it came out. It looked like the lip of the steering rack tube may have been staked to hold it in- or was I just unlucky enough to have randomly hit something on the road that staked it for me?

*edit* Looking at it closely it was definitely staked. Wish I'd noticed that earlier. Since I already had the end cap out I cut out the staked section with a dremel. When I tightened the end cap back into the rack I finished the job by re-staking the end cap with a punch and mini-sledge. It was very easy to get another nice stake on the tube, and I'd recommend going ahead and doing it for that little bit of extra security.

[Bigsyke]

Yes its staked down, you need to drill the stake out.

[Koopa Troopa]

I thought about doing this to my Civic but have a hard enough time trying to turn it at low speeds as it is. FWD with an aggressive LSD is not fun to park with PS much less none.

Anyone have any experiences that can change my mind? I'd really like to depower the rack but I don't want to realize it sucks donkey nuts and is impossible to drive in a parking lot.

[Monooxide]

I have a depowered rack and I went one step farther in removing the end seals in the rack.

The car is easier to turn then just a removed belt on the pump or removed pump, but it still takes some effort however it's not NEAR as bad.

I also noticed that it tries to self center much better with the rack depowered.

Also, the people saying that the depowering of the rack removes upwards of 30 pounds are embellishing. I weighed the pump and it was roughly 7-8 pounds, the lines are around 3-4 and the resevoir isnt even 1 pound with fluid weighing maybe 2-3 pounds. So you're looking at 12-15 pounds at most.

Do not do this for reasons regarding weight.

Pros:
-Cleaner Engine Bay
-One less Engine oil
-Less parasitic drag on the engine

Cons:
-Harder to steer than PS enabled racks
-Requires grease maintenance

[Caithness]

Originally Posted by Bigsyke

Yes its staked down, you need to drill the stake out.

D'oh. Wish I 'd noticed that before the hassle. Oh well.

[DisEpyon]

Originally Posted by Monooxide

I have a depowered rack and I went one step farther in removing the end seals in the rack.

The car is easier to turn then just a removed belt on the pump or removed pump, but it still takes some effort however it's not NEAR as bad.

I also noticed that it tries to self center much better with the rack depowered.

Also, the people saying that the depowering of the rack removes upwards of 30 pounds are embellishing. I weighed the pump and it was roughly 7-8 pounds, the lines are around 3-4 and the resevoir isnt even 1 pound with fluid weighing maybe 2-3 pounds. So you're looking at 12-15 pounds at most.

Do not do this for reasons regarding weight.

Pros:
-Cleaner Engine Bay
-One less Engine oil
-Less parasitic drag on the engine

Cons:
-Harder to steer than PS enabled racks
-Requires grease maintenance

did you weigh the power steering pump bracket from the motor? hehe.... or is that included with the weighing of the pump that you did?

Plus one for one less oil to worry about. Probably the most pain in the azz oil to deal with for those that have leak problems.

[Bigsyke]

Originally Posted by Koopa Troopa

I thought about doing this to my Civic but have a hard enough time trying to turn it at low speeds as it is. FWD with an aggressive LSD is not fun to park with PS much less none.

Anyone have any experiences that can change my mind? I'd really like to depower the rack but I don't want to realize it sucks donkey nuts and is impossible to drive in a parking lot.

Contemplating on your civic? The civic is a no-brainer. I could turn my EJ8-2 with a feather @ 1-2mph with the rack depowered.

The civic is a whole different experience with a depowered rack, in fact I would doubt there is more than a 5lbs/ft difference in turning effort at 5mph between PS and depowered on a civic, using a say a mugen wheel.

Ive gotten so used to the S14 being depowered that when I jump into the civic I forget its even lacking the powersteering.

Both cars are perfect, wouldnt go back to PS unless I had to.

Now that ive upgraded/replaced my front suspension/bushings in the S14 its much easier to turn, and much more responsive.

[Koopa Troopa]

Originally Posted by Bigsyke

Contemplating on your civic? The civic is a no-brainer. I could turn my EJ8-2 with a feather @ 1-2mph with the rack depowered.

With what diff? FWD with a decent LSD doesn't like to turn at low speeds.

[projectRDM]

Bringing it back, I'm in the process of doing this for a customer. Only his car has been converted to RHD and we're using an A31 steering rack. The disassembly is virtually the same as the Schassis rack except for the pinion top flange being held down with two M6 allen bolts instead of the three Torx, which made it easy to get apart. It's completely apart now save for the rack, I can't seem to find how it's secured in the housing. There's no snap ring on either end, nor is there anything to pry against, the FSM mentions drilling a hole but is unclear where to do so. I've removed the 36mm end plate already, how did you get the rack out fully to be able to cut the seal off?

[Monooxide]

Originally Posted by DisEpyon

did you weigh the power steering pump bracket from the motor? hehe.... or is that included with the weighing of the pump that you did?

Plus one for one less oil to worry about. Probably the most pain in the azz oil to deal with for those that have leak problems.

That is with the bracket. : /.

[V1A]

Originally Posted by projectRDM

There's no snap ring on either end, nor is there anything to pry against, the FSM mentions drilling a hole but is unclear where to do so. I've removed the 36mm end plate already, how did you get the rack out fully to be able to cut the seal off?

I just took a s13 rack apart a few nights ago and had the same issue.

When I pulled on the rack, it would only come out so far, and it would start to slowly move back into the case like it was on a spring. Behind the 36mm end plate, a few inches into the case, there is a rubber seal between the rack and the case. I used a flat head screwdriver to bend the seal away from the case.

When I did this it made a popping noise, like it relieved some pressure, and the rack came right out.

Hope this helps.

[ixfxi]

You know, I cant believe I havent seen this thread in the many months that its been active.

Search the archives here on Zilvia, on Miata.net, or anywhere else I've posted and you'll hear me say the SAME fucking thing: MANUAL STEERING ROCKS. Seriously, its fucking awesome.

I'm sorry, but a lot of the new kids nowadays are just fucking pussies. We're living in the day and age of emo-playstation racers. If you want to play video games, go play video games. If you're a driver who wants to drive the fuck out of his car and feel the road, then no power steering is for you.

For drifting, and I mean pure drifting I cant say I would recommend it. It could be functional on a very very light racecar, but if all you're doing is drifting, you'll probably want the PS setup. Its less of a workout.

I've removed it from my S13 racecar and from my NB Miata. Very simple, ditch the reservoir and the lines. With the lines removed and your car jacked in the air on stands, swing the wheel back and fourth repeatedly until the fluid is as empty as possible. Cap the rack ports and you're good to go. NO NEED TO LOOP THE LINES.

Ive driven my cars for YEARS like this with no wear on the rack. I figure whatever little fluid is in there should still keep the rack lubed. Nowadays since my car is being restored, I am thinking of disassembling the rack and cleaning and greasing it.

I am also thinking of picking up a HICAS rack and seeing how it would be with the tighter rack. Now that I am running such a wide wheel & tire setup, its going to be interesting seeing which rack I prefer - in addition to which steering wheel I prefer. I have a 320mm MOMO wheel that I've ran and well, the larger 350mm wheel does indeed help.

In conclusion, dont worry about the steering being too heavy, its not. I'm 5'8" and not a huge guy, and its perfectly easy to steer. When driving you dont even notice it, the only time you'll maybe want it back is if you have to parallel park, THATS IT.




Ditch the fucking PS, fruitcakes.


ps: There's a HUGE benefit in being able to feel water, gravel and such when you run things over with your front tires. If you like how S13's notify you when the back starts to slide, you'll love how with no PS the front tires provide equally important feedback.

[projectRDM]

Originally Posted by V1A

I just took a s13 rack apart a few nights ago and had the same issue.

When I pulled on the rack, it would only come out so far, and it would start to slowly move back into the case like it was on a spring. Behind the 36mm end plate, a few inches into the case, there is a rubber seal between the rack and the case. I used a flat head screwdriver to bend the seal away from the case.

When I did this it made a popping noise, like it relieved some pressure, and the rack came right out.

Hope this helps.

Bingo. I figured that was it, I'll go beat on it later. After doing this one I'm seriously considering doing my own car as well, it's so damn easy and the benefit of having all that shit removed looks killer.

Originally Posted by ixfxi

You know, I cant believe I havent seen this thread in the many months that its been active.

Search the archives here on Zilvia, on Miata.net, or anywhere else I've posted and you'll hear me say the SAME fucking thing: MANUAL STEERING ROCKS. Seriously, its fucking awesome.

NO NEED TO LOOP THE LINES.

Ive driven my cars for YEARS like this with no wear on the rack. I figure whatever little fluid is in there should still keep the rack lubed. Nowadays since my car is being restored, I am thinking of disassembling the rack and cleaning and greasing it.

Mike, do it the above way, making a true manual rack, you'll love it even more.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by projectRDM

Mike, do it the above way, making a true manual rack, you'll love it even more.

with the car inactive at the moment, i will. but, i will pickup a spare hicas rack FIRST. do it to the hicas rack, then fuck with the normal rack, then decide which rack i like best (besides sylvia saint's)

[yokotavia]

very frustrated with my power steering lines,pump, and belt as im putting my s13 drift car back together.

going to take apart a spare rack i have and check it out.
its semi difficult to imagine where all the parts go without doing it yourself.

will take some pics of everything when i do it.