The Future Automotive Thread

[Dutchmalmiss]

Originally Posted by Future240

I'd like to know who would buy something like that when you are DEEP into, used Porsche, Specialty Mustang, Zl1 Camaro, Corvette, M3/M4 territory all of which would run circles around a stock S15.

It's definitely not for performance reasons, that'd be for sure. I'd dream of having an S13, S14, and S15 in my drive way. But then again driving a RHD car in the US bothers me.

[spooled240]

Some of you guys that are complaining about the weight of the new Z seemed to have forgotten that the original Z32 TT was over 3500lbs. The new TT Z is also about the same price as the original TT Z 30 years ago and it has over 100 more hp. Wtf do you want? 400hp in a 3000lb chassis at $35k? Not gonna happen lol

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by spooled240

Wtf do you want?

It's been discussed in here quite a bit what enthusiast want.

3500+lbs, 400hp, $40K and no LSD isn't it.

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

It's been discussed in here quite a bit what enthusiast want.

3500+lbs, 400hp, $40K and no LSD isn't it.

No I got it: floating pedals, cassette player, LSD and 400hp in a 2022 s15 chassis for $25k


..keep waiting guys

[Future240]

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

It's definitely not for performance reasons, that'd be for sure. I'd dream of having an S13, S14, and S15 in my drive way. But then again driving a RHD car in the US bothers me.

Me too

S13 hatch with all Kouki (type x) parts with a KA-T

S14 with all Kouki JDM parts with an RB25

S15 Spec R.


Curious though why does driving RHD in the US bother you? Never done so myself.

Now the question of the day. When the manual supra drops for only a bit more cash, what would be the car to buy? I saw a video of a Z, Zupra and a Mach 1 stang racing and they both left the Z no issue. B58 is no joke.




'

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by spooled240

No I got it: Sub 3000lbs, RWD, M/T, 265-300HP, LSD and $30K-ish.


..keep waiting guys

Fixed that for you.

[Dutchmalmiss]

Originally Posted by Future240

Curious though why does driving RHD in the US bother you? Never done so myself.

'

It's just I've been in LHD cars my whole life. Drove a RHD EK Type R hard through a mountain pass and just felt weird not being closer to the center of the road. Also couldn't get my lines right during hard cornering. Maybe just a "just gotta get used to it" thing.

[nick_d_240sx]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

Sub 3000lbs, RWD, M/T, 265-300HP, LSD and $30K-ish.

That's pretty much BRZ/FRS or a Miata with a turbo.

I don't care what anyone says, I dig the new Z. Retro styling, 400hp, RWD, Manual, fair price. I'd like to have seen a 2+2 but I can't afford to take on more debt..

Wonder if/what dealer markup will be.

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by nick_d_240sx

That's pretty much BRZ/FRS or a Miata with a turbo.

I don't care what anyone says, I dig the new Z. Retro styling, 400hp, RWD, Manual, fair price.

Thus the problem. People want a "Factory" option, so they don't have to add bolt-on power mods. Also, the BRZ/FRS/GR86 has it's own problems with bolt-on forced induction and the Miata doesn't cut it for someone wanting a true coupe.

I'm also "meh" on the whole retro fan service Nissan did on the Z... I would've rather seen them do something modern with influences from time attack/ other racing.

I just hope Amuse comes out and gives the new Z the 380RS Superleggera treatment:

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Future240

I'd like to know who would buy something like that when you are DEEP into, used Porsche, Specialty Mustang, Zl1 Camaro, Corvette, M3/M4 territory all of which would run circles around a stock S15.

What used Porsche? A 20 year old clapped out 986 Boxster?
Have you priced SVT and Shelby Mustangs? Terminators are $30-40k, hell a Mach 1 is $15-20k.

$30k doesn't buy shit these days. 7 year old Challenger R/T is $25k. People want $12k for a clean 350Z.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

Thus the problem. People want a "Factory" option, so they don't have to add bolt-on power mods. Also, the BRZ/FRS/GR86 has it's own problems with bolt-on forced induction and the Miata doesn't cut it for someone wanting a true coupe.

Exactly. Subaru and Toyota have turbo engines up the ass and give us the FA20 and FA24. Both total piles of shit. FA20 ears rod bearings like a 986 Boxster are IMS bearings. I can find a half dozen cars on Facebook with spun bearings any given day. Engines go for $5k+ because of the high demand/need.

It has chicken bone rods that can't handle boost.it has a tinny trans that can't handle torque. It has garbage tier 5x100 lug pattern and the infamous torque drop. The system blows and sounds like crickets with rickets.

New car looks like a Porsche Panamara with downs syndrome.

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

I'm also "meh" on the whole retro fan service Nissan did on the Z... I would've rather seen them do something modern with influences from time attack/ other racing.

It's worse then that stupid 240Z body kit for the S13. It's literally a 240Z front and 300zx rail lights on a 370Z.

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

I just hope Amuse comes out and gives the new Z the 380RS Superleggera treatment:

I just wish Nissan would have given us a GTS-T.

Take a GTR body, put in the new VR30DDTT and RWD Transmissions in it. Standard Infinite/Z brakes, change the body kit up a bit and charge $50k.

The uptick in body sales would certianly help keep costs down on the R35.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by spooled240

No I got it: floating pedals, cassette player, LSD and 400hp in a 2022 s15 chassis for $25k


..keep waiting guys

How about not retarded cars?

MKV - despite having both a manual and DCT already developed, certified and being sold, Toyota choose not to launch with them. Toyota, the world's 2nd largest automaker also can't develop its own sports car, but has to reskin a fucking BMW - to the point the car uses 5x120 wheel bolts and has BMW iDrive with subscription based Carplay.

Nissan - start the hell over.the proportions of the damn car are hideous and it's literally a 20 year old chassis.

Toyota, again, why the hell did they partner with Subaru? Then take an already iffy design (flat-4) and make it worse!??

How about damn Honda.

Coupe with a K24 for Toyota. Roadster with a K24 for Honda. Us the stronger and smoother S2k trans.

Call it a fucking Celica (or Trueno) and S2000 God damn it.

[dorkidori_s13]

The new Z is literally taken from the playbook of Dodge with the Charger and Challenger...

Keep an existing chassis alive by dressing it in more appealing exterior stylings while adding a bit more horsepower to accommodate for the added weight.

Dodge is literally raking in the dough with their Charger and Challenger sales due to the bulk of the tooling being paid off outside of minor cosmetic differences. While the Hellcat is actually pretty damn cool... both cars havent changed much over the years via their exterior change ups. From a business perspective this is great, but for those of us who take notice on a deeper level... yeah, its suicide. buuuuuuuuut folks like us are few and far between so thats not a worry to major manufacturers.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

The new Z is literally taken from the playbook of Dodge with the Charger and Challenger...

Keep an existing chassis alive by dressing it in more appealing exterior stylings while adding a bit more horsepower to accommodate for the added weight.

Dodge is literally raking in the dough with their Charger and Challenger sales due to the bulk of the tooling being paid off outside of minor cosmetic differences. While the Hellcat is actually pretty damn cool... both cars havent changed much over the years via their exterior change ups. From a business perspective this is great, but for those of us who take notice on a deeper level... yeah, its suicide. buuuuuuuuut folks like us are few and far between so thats not a worry to major manufacturers.

You are correct, the LX platform is 20 years old and is printing money for FCA.

However, you are wrong to compare what FCA is doing to what Nissan is doing.

People WANT large RWD comfortable V8 powered Sedans and Coupes. This segment has been around for 70 years. They want Muscle cars. Even in the 90's the Impala SS, Thunderbird, Cougar and Crown Vic sold very well.

FCA is giving enthusiasts, young and old, what they want, that 60's brawler Muscle Car while Ford and Chevy chased Nuremberring numbers turning their Pony cars into European GT Cars.

Nissan on the other hand....

Goshen did help by consolidating products and streamlining powertrains. The 350Z was a smashing success. 240SX pricing, exotic styling, Mustang power and pricing while being simple and reliable.

Sacrifices where made, namely in weight, driving dynamics and interior quality. But I'm 2003 it was light years ahead of it's direct competitor, the Mustang.

The 370Z fixed none of these issues, got uglier and fell far behind the competition.

The 400Z fixed none of this and will stylistically age as kindly as a PT Cruiser or 2005 Mustang. Instead of maintaining the existing under structure and proportions with a skin job, they should have ground up redone the body. A 1979 Fox Body Mustang and a 2004 New Edge are the same chassis, but look nothing a like and have very different proportions. That's the jump Nissan needed to do.

Nissan is pulling a Disney and trying to sucker you in with stupid nostalgia and superficial throw backs.

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by Corbic

The 400Z fixed none of this and will stylistically age as kindly as a PT Cruiser or 2005 Mustang. Instead of maintaining the existing under structure and proportions with a skin job, they should have ground up redone the body. A 1979 Fox Body Mustang and a 2004 New Edge are the same chassis, but look nothing a like and have very different proportions. That's the jump Nissan needed to do.

..and it would have way costed more. Then you guys would have bitched about it costing $70k.

The car doesnt look that bad and there will be more than enough options to change the exterior. I thought the 350z was ugly when it came out, but I love what Nismo did with it.

If you want sub 3000lbs then go buy a GR86..they are the same price as a loaded 240sx SE 25 years ago, but with infinitely better performance out of the box.

Yeah the Supra would have been cooler if it wasnt a BMW, but I'm starting to look at it for what it is: a solid platform with a solid engine that is worthy of being a 2J successor. The car kicks ass not only in a straight line, but is very formidable on the circuit..all while being cheaper than the original at $80k in todays dollars.

"Oh but the car is not as innovative like the original" we are approaching the pinnacle of ICE and chassis technology and things dont need to be reinvented just to be phased out in 10 years or less by fully electric options. Thats just the reality and I'm just glad we can still get affordable ICE cars with great performance and 3 pedals

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by spooled240

..and it would have way costed more. Then you guys would have bitched about it costing $70k.

Why would it have cost $70k *eyerolls*. A God damn Mid-Engine Corvette with a DCT doesn't even start at $70k.

Originally Posted by spooled240

The car doesnt look that bad

. This is a reflection on you. The car looks awful and anyone with an eye for details, design work snd proportions will see it.

Originally Posted by spooled240

and there will be more than enough options to change the exterior.

Cool, so I get to spend $50k and then have to drop another $20k in body kits and wheels.

Originally Posted by spooled240

If you want sub 3000lbs then go buy a GR86..they are the same price as a loaded 240sx SE 25 years ago, but with infinitely better performance out of the box.

Except the FRS has a trashcan tier engine. KA24 was at least reliable, boost-able and had a cheap direct replacement readily available.

Originally Posted by spooled240

Yeah the Supra would have been cooler if it wasnt a BMW, but I'm starting to look at it for what it is: a solid platform with a solid engine that is worthy of being a 2J successor. The car kicks ass not only in a straight line, but is very formidable on the circuit..all while being cheaper than the original at $80k in todays dollars.

Funny how little old BMW is able to design a killer engine, chassis and car up all on their own. Funny how GM, like the third or 4th largest auto maker is able to build a Mid-Engine, DCT super car for $60k, but Toyota who is the 2nd largest automaker can only go and put their badge on a BMW and call it good.

I don't care they outsourced the engine or the trans or suspension work... I care that they did so soooo fucking lazily that they left the 5x120 (or whatever) fucking hubs and wheel bolts on the damn car. It doesn't even have fucking back seats.

Why couldn't they just take their TT V6, one of their Lexus chassis, trim some fat and luxury, grab a MT82 or TR6060 and call it a Supra?

Originally Posted by spooled240

.
"Oh but the car is not as innovative like the original" we are approaching the pinnacle of ICE and chassis technology and things dont need to be reinvented just to be phased out in 10 years or less by fully electric options. Thats just the reality and I'm just glad we can still get affordable ICE cars with great performance and 3 pedals

It's not even Japanese. There was a gulf of difference in design approach from Golden Era Japanese cars and their domestic and European rivals. That's gone. The lastest schleps in charge over there are asleep at the wheel and just phoning this shit in.

To lazy to solve wind buffering, offer an off the shelf manual option, nor considerate enough to car about wheel fitment and bolt patterns. They are going through the motions instead of ending passionate and chassis perfection.

These are not the same people that came up with the EF and EG Civics the Celica All-Trac, R32 GTR, 300ZX TT, NSX, etc. This is the soleless Disney Sequels trying to stand on the shoulders of greatness and cash in.

[spooled240]

[QUOTE=Corbic;6417898]Why would it have cost $70k *eyerolls*. A God damn Mid-Engine Corvette with a DCT doesn't even start at $70k.

with that logic the 13 year old v6 GT-R should cost $60k. The Z is already at 40-50k with a reskin, a ground up redesign could have added another 10-15k? I mean a freakin CTR starts at $40k

Originally Posted by Corbic

This is a reflection on you. The car looks awful and anyone with an eye for details, design work snd proportions will see it.

I'm not in love with the design, but I know a lot of people like it enough to buy it and that's all that matters.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Cool, so I get to spend $50k and then have to drop another $20k in body kits and wheels.

More like 40k and another 10k for wheels, LSD, suspension and aesthetics. Least you wouldn't have to touch the drivetrain for sub 500hp

Originally Posted by Corbic

Except the FRS has a trashcan tier engine. KA24 was at least reliable, boost-able and had a cheap direct replacement readily available.

KA24 sucks in stock form. At least the FRS revved and the new engine is much better. My only gripe is the MPG..they should have just stuck with the 2.0L and turbo'd it.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Funny how little old BMW is able to design a killer engine, chassis and car up all on their own. Funny how GM, like the third or 4th largest auto maker is able to build a Mid-Engine, DCT super car for $60k, but Toyota who is the 2nd largest automaker can only go and put their badge on a BMW and call it good.

I don't care they outsourced the engine or the trans or suspension work... I care that they did so soooo fucking lazily that they left the 5x120 (or whatever) fucking hubs and wheel bolts on the damn car. It doesn't even have fucking back seats.

Why couldn't they just take their TT V6, one of their Lexus chassis, trim some fat and luxury, grab a MT82 or TR6060 and call it a Supra?

If I hear another raspy v6 I'm going to have an aneurism. The Zupra at least sounds like the original Supra

Originally Posted by Corbic

It's not even Japanese. There was a gulf of difference in design approach from Golden Era Japanese cars and their domestic and European rivals. That's gone. The lastest schleps in charge over there are asleep at the wheel and just phoning this shit in.

To lazy to solve wind buffering, offer an off the shelf manual option, nor considerate enough to car about wheel fitment and bolt patterns. They are going through the motions instead of ending passionate and chassis perfection.

But is it really a big deal? Get some anti-buffeting deflectors, 5x120 Rays wheels and just drive it lol

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

I just hope Amuse comes out and gives the new Z the 380RS Superleggera treatment:

Never heard of that, so I looked it up. More than 300lbs lighter, wow.

Also, Corbic's right. You don't have to kick ass when you're expected to simply do a job. It feels like the hunger that was present in the late-'80s and '90s is completely gone (which makes sense because there are only 13 years left until certain states and countries want nothing but plug-in and full-electric cars). You see it from the Japanese and you see it from the Germans- BMWs are no longer the feelsome, fun cars to drive that they once were, the Japanese are no longer reengineering the wheel to be something spicy and fun*.

*I have heard that the CTR is actually pretty damn good.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by spooled240

with that logic the 13 year old v6 GT-R should cost $60k. The Z is already at 40-50k with a reskin, a ground up redesign could have added another 10-15k? I mean a freakin CTR starts at $40k

What? Do you even manufacture bro?

The GTR remains expensive because of production volume. They aren't even selling 1,000 units a year at this point. That is a ton of overhead and setup time that needs to be absorbed. It uses a bespoke hand built engine and transmission, etc.

Originally Posted by spooled240

I'm not in love with the design, but I know a lot of people like it enough to buy it and that's all that matters.

#CardiB

Also, will be interesting to see how well it sells. I predict delivery and mark up issues because of Comvid and by the time those are fixed interest will have crashed.

Originally Posted by spooled240

More like 40k and another 10k for wheels, LSD, suspension and aesthetics. Least you wouldn't have to touch the drivetrain for sub 500hp

Didn't realize you where using knock off parts.

Wheels + Tires +$3,000
Body Kit + Paint +$4,000
LSD $1,300 + Install $1,000
Coil-Overs $1,500

~$11,000 and you haven't even touched the exhaust or tune.

Originally Posted by spooled240

KA24 sucks in stock form. At least the FRS revved and the new engine is much better. My only gripe is the MPG..they should have just stuck with the 2.0L and turbo'd it.

At least the KA24 had a flat torque curve and didn't chuck rod bearings.

Originally Posted by spooled240

If I hear another raspy v6 I'm going to have an aneurism. The Zupra at least sounds like the original Supra

And you are happy about the 400Z?

Originally Posted by spooled240

But is it really a big deal? Get some anti-buffeting deflectors, 5x120 Rays wheels and just drive it lol

The issue is the "good enough, let them figure it out" attitude is what I expect from 1990's GM - not Toyota or Nissan

[trsilvias13]

Any thoughts on this Hyundai concept - https://www.motortrend.com/news/hyun...ook-build-now/


Looks like a 180sx to me.

[cdlong]

Maybe a 180sx crossed with a DeLorean.

[Future240]

I'd say Nissan and DeLorean had a three some with a elantra N and made that.

Has anyone here driven a BMW M340I? I have been looking at these as a DD. I drive roughly 6 miles a day now (I work from home). Has the B58 with a ZF.

Great exhaust note, appears good performance.

Thoughts?

[brndck]

Originally Posted by trsilvias13

Any thoughts on this Hyundai concept - https://www.motortrend.com/news/hyun...ook-build-now/


Looks like a 180sx to me.

sil80, audi 90, delorean, MA70 supra, it looks like hyundai just made a "90s greatest hits" car, and boy does it look good!

Throw some pop up headlights on it now!

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by Future240

Has anyone here driven a BMW M340I? I have been looking at these as a DD. I drive roughly 6 miles a day now (I work from home). Has the B58 with a ZF.

Great exhaust note, appears good performance.

Thoughts?

I've never driven one but I've heard from multiple people that they feel synthetic.

[cdlong]

Originally Posted by Future240

I'd say Nissan and DeLorean had a three some with a elantra N and made that.

Has anyone here driven a BMW M340I? I have been looking at these as a DD. I drive roughly 6 miles a day now (I work from home). Has the B58 with a ZF.

Great exhaust note, appears good performance.

Thoughts?

For that kind of money and that few miles, you could get a cool older car like an air cooled Porsche or e46 M3. I don't know, seems like an opportunity for something cooler/more fun.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by cdlong

For that kind of money and that few miles, you could get a cool older car like an air cooled Porsche or e46 M3. I don't know, seems like an opportunity for something cooler/more fun.

I will be financing this car.

I really want a CT4 V Blackwing but dearly markups have prices those cars far out of my reach. Same for the IS500

My list other than those are

Bmw M340i
Lexus GS-F
2020 or higher Q50

[TheRealSy90]

Everyone so quick to judge the new Z without even driving the damn thing. Just wait and drive one yourself...

[Dutchmalmiss]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Everyone so quick to judge the new Z without even driving the damn thing. Just wait and drive one yourself...

Seriously. Coming from Japan, you've got only 3 new RWD cars that come in manual for less than $50k.
- Z
- 86 twins
- Miata

None of the above are part of the horsepower war that the Mustang/Camaro/Charger/Challenger are in because that's not the type of enthusiast they're catering to.

At this point beggars can't be choosers anymore. It's either pay for a marked up new car, or pay for an inflated used car, which is obviously more financially favorable than the former.

[TheRealSy90]

It's just hilarious dude is saying the steering sucks when he hasn't even driven the Z himself yet. I've driven it it feels awesome.

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

I've driven it it feels awesome.

How noticeable was the weight? Did it feel like driving a 3,500lb RWD car?