Republican Party candidate?

[kingkilburn]

I remember you trying and being wrong. When I proved you wrong you failed to grasp my point and changed the subject. It's not my job to beat you over the head with my correctness but yours to come clean when you are bested instead being a bitch about it.

[kingkilburn]

And since I'm sure you'll try to say the same thing. BLM was a consolidation of many much older government organizations. Freeways are FREE of stops or crossing traffic. Publicly funded schools and roads have been around since nearly the beginning of the country.

[kingkilburn]

Talks of a national bank(the very heart of socialism) has been talked about since before there was an articles of confederation.

[kingkilburn]

And of course BLM and the organizations before didn't go around killing everything and clear cutting BUT they did allow it to the detriment of the forests and prairies. Now you need permission to do those things and it's all closely controlled and regulated.

[TougeSR20Kid]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

And since I'm sure you'll try to say the same thing. BLM was a consolidation of many much older government organizations. Freeways are FREE of stops or crossing traffic. Publicly funded schools and roads have been around since nearly the beginning of the country.

Ohhh man we've already covered that and besides the original argument was for you to provide solid support behind your ORIGINAL claim which you have failed to do, then once I showed you that those institutions that you claimed were your support have not in fact been around for as long as you claim you attack my examples... Talk about spinning an argument and changin course, just admit ur initial statement was false.

Beating me over the head with correctness? So far the only thing you were correct about is where the term freeway came from. You still have failed to support ur original claim.

[TougeSR20Kid]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Talks of a national bank(the very heart of socialism) has been talked about since before there was an articles of confederation.

Talks? Really? That doesn't make it real not to mention a socialist institution. Its not about whats been discussed its about whats been in practice. And besides, there may have been talks but what we have is the fed which is removed from the govnmt doesn't get much more NON-SOCIALST than that

[TougeSR20Kid]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Publicly funded schools and roads have been around since nearly the beginning of the country.

The roads part has already been discussed. Please go back and read.

Schools were mostly privatized in the early days of this country and most schools if they did receive assistance got it from the community or town not from the federal or even state government. It wasn't until the mid 1800s that a public school system emerged and even then it was really loco my mainstream if you will in the north east and cities and more industrialized areas not in the south, west, and rural areas... So no public schools haven't been a social institution since 1776

[kingkilburn]

That's the founding fathers seriously considering it. Government controlled currency is as far as you can get into socialism before you start getting into communist things like price fixing. Oh wait we do that too, and have for for more than 100 years. And we've had public education here since the 1800's. I don't know what kind of proof you're looking for. It's literally all around us but people are so used to it that they can't separate the rhetoric from the reality.

[kingkilburn]

Even if it's from a community level it's still socialism.

[kingkilburn]

This country started out anarchocapitalist and locally socialist. That socialism moved up from the community level as government got more organized and the anarchocapitalism fell away as government regulations(at all levels) started.

Why are these concepts hard to grasp?

[kingkilburn]

Why does the socialism thing even matter? Obama hasn't done a single thing to push America further into socialism. People say the healthcare bill(that congress passed so call it congress-care) but to me it stinks of corporatism and fascism. Government mandating that you must buy a product is not socialism.

[lflkajfj12123]

EDIT POST

y u so hard to grasp?

[kingkilburn]

Because this section doesn't add to post counts and no fucks are given.

[mantas]

Originally Posted by s0apgun

EDIT POST

y u so hard to grasp?

I have been wondering the same thing.

[mantas]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Why does the socialism thing even matter? Obama hasn't done a single thing to push America further into socialism. People say the healthcare bill(that congress passed so call it congress-care) but to me it stinks of corporatism and fascism. Government mandating that you must buy a product is not socialism.

Listen buddy i think you are missing the point. We are all aware of the socialist programs sponsored by our government . What we want to do is stop the expansion of these social programs. Do you know why we want that?

Look at how f-ed up the following few things are in this country:

Education system
Public transportation - in most cities.
Roadways freeways
Social security / medicare
FEMA
DMW
Im having a brain fart but when i started this i had a few other examples. Ill go back to eating my food and when im done im going to make some 20 random posts because i cant pull all my thoughts together and compose a few paragraphs.

[slowvia]

[kingkilburn]

Education system - That's what happens when paper pushers try to mandate an art form. Doesn't mean it can't be fixed. CA had some of the best schools in the world until big land owners got the funding cut.

Public transportation - in most cities. - Thank the auto and oil industry for that. LA had great electric rail until Ford, Standard Oil, and Firestone bought the City Government.

Roadways freeways - Some of the best in the world. The system of building and repairing the roads needs overhauled to cut out officials paying their buddies too much for to little. The roads are still far and away better than the roads in nearly every country on the planet, that includes other 1st world countries.

Social security / medicare - Were just fine until Reagan stole money from them that the feds still haven't paid back. They turned it into a ponzi scheme when it wasn't. Now we are stuck paying for services rendered now in hopes that there will be others to pay our bills when the time comes. Medicare and the VA system are just fine. If anything they could be better funded and opened up to regular citizens to buy in.

FEMA - Unnecessary and inept. Axe it.

DMW - ???

[TougeSR20Kid]

Originally Posted by mantas

Listen buddy i think you are missing the point. We are all aware of the socialist programs sponsored by our government . What we want to do is stop the expansion of these social programs. Do you know why we want that?

Look at how f-ed up the following few things are in this country:

Education system
Public transportation - in most cities.
Roadways freeways
Social security / medicare
FEMA
DMW
Im having a brain fart but when i started this i had a few other examples. Ill go back to eating my food and when im done im going to make some 20 random posts because i cant pull all my thoughts together and compose a few paragraphs.

Ding ding ding... Nailed it

Ok well I agree with the anarchocapitalistic on major level and socialist on a community level... You are right about that but whatever I'm done arguing that bit with you since it seems you and I just have two completely differing views on what that statement you had originally said meant. Either way socialism hasn't been in practice on a federal level since the beginning and really the federal government didnt institute socialist institutions until the latter half of our history. Socialism on a community level is hard to claim that "socialist since conception" bit because its not on any major governing level. And socialism on a community level is almost like saying community on community level IMO

Either way back on track to the somewhat original topic I completely agree once again with mantas. But I'm gonna take it a little farther and say it doesn't matter even if he didn't establish any new socialist institutions, it's the idea that he wants to that I have a problem with. Like mantas said- all the preexisting ones worked out sooooo well, why the fuck do I want more? It's the idea that he supports these institutions and wants more that makes me not want to see another 4 years of him (among other things). And that's why I will not and did not originally vote for him.

On a side note socialism as an ideology is a marvelous idea but is impractical in reality, it can work phenomenally on a small community level but a lot of the time it fails horribly once it hits the big leagues. I personally wouldnt want to live like that and thats the problem, unless everyone is on board and down that shit ain't gonna go far or succeed.

[TougeSR20Kid]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Social security / medicare - Were just fine until Reagan stole money from them that the feds still haven't paid back. They turned it into a ponzi scheme when it wasn't. Now we are stuck paying for services rendered......

Sorry for cutting the quote my iPhone got a little too delete crazy

IMO the issue with social security mainly resides in the fact that they didn't plan on as many ppl living to see that money and living as long into retirement as they are these days.

[kingkilburn]

When did he ever claim he wanted to push socialism? That was the republican rhetoric from the last elections.
Judge a man on his actions and the consistency of those actions. All the republican candidates save Ron Paul are all over the map in that regard. Obama is not as consistent as I would like in his voting record or presidential policies. At least Ron Paul and Hilary Clinton are completely known quantities.

[kingkilburn]

Originally Posted by TougeSR20Kid

Sorry for cutting the quote my iPhone got a little too delete crazy

IMO the issue with social security mainly resides in the fact that they didn't plan on as many ppl living to see that money and living as long into retirement as they are these days.

The number of people isn't important as long as the money YOU payed in is kept and invested for YOU. When Reagen plundered the account he took away their future and the programs solvency. Rather than pay back what is owed the republicans seem to want to reroute the rest and shutdown the program.

[TougeSR20Kid]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

The number of people isn't important as long as the money YOU payed in is kept and invested for YOU. When Reagen plundered the account he took away their future and the programs solvency. Rather than pay back what is owed the republicans seem to want to reroute the rest and shutdown the program.

But when they take the money from you're salary as they did way back when they took a % that they had calculated to be able to be enough money for X years of retirement after being invested. People are living longer than the calculated X amount of years which throws the system off. In their defense there was no way that they could've seen that years down the line advancements with internal medicine and living healthier lives would allow people to reach so much higher an age. What's the average age for men and women nowadays? 79 for men and 85 for women? I'm not 100% positive but I know is around there... Dude that's over 20 years of social security when they had only accounted for X

Whatever the bottom line with ssi is that I pay for it outa each paycheck and odds are I will not see a fucking dime come retirement... Which is complete and utter bullshit

[kingkilburn]

And that is admittedly a potential pitfall of socialism. You should be able to opt out and make your own retirement investments if you want. That would also mean that they would absolutely deny you any and all benefits.

I think we can all admit people will want it both ways. lol

[mantas]

Bingo! Tougesr20kid is completely right here. No one could foresee the increase in life expectancy. Kingkillburn yes WE the people never paid back for what the Government borrowed from ss, but do you not see that this was a failure and another bullshit scheme for the government to rob us blind? They keep doing this all the time - more social programs for the people - and more money stolen from our pockets because guess who has to pay for these programs? Me, you, tougesr20kid and the rest of the people in this country. Healthcare will be the same thing, that f-ing highspeed train in CA will be the same crap. I must admit i was an idiot and i voted for it, that was the only prop i didnt read into and thought omg a rail from downtown LA to downtown SF would be cool. Yeah right, turns out this thing starts nowhere and ends nowhere. I wish i could take me vote back, but i made a mistake, and i wont let it happen again.

[mantas]

One more thing. Kingkillburn, i heard somewhere that a lot of young people are quite liberal but as they get older they become more conservative. If that makes any sense.... Either way the reason this happens is people get older and start voting and paying taxes and they realize there is no reason why they need to work hard and have their money taken from them. I pay a boat load in taxes and i plan on making more money not less so i want to minimize the amount of money taken from me. Not only do i pay taxes i now have to pay more for gas (absolutely Obama's fsult). My medical insurance costs quite a bit, and food prices keep climbing because of inflation. So the way i see it - i can only control one of these costs = taxes. I cant go to the store and tell the clerk im not paying $3.00 for an orange but ill give him $2.50, that wont work. I cant go to a gas station and tell the clerk to pump a few extra gallons in my tank because im unhappy that gas went up by .10 since last week. But what i can do is vote for someone who wants to cut down the amount i pay intaxes, i can make sure that no social programs get passed so i dont have to pay more state or federal taxes.

[kingkilburn]

One man can't make those changes but all of us can together. Inflation isn't an accident. It's not even our government's fault per say. The FED wants inflation and they manipulate politics and the market to keep the status quo. I couldn't even guess as to why they do it but they have a clear history of doing it. The dollar could very easily be worth what it was 60 years ago. They'll have you believe that would just destroy the world. I'm not buying it.

There is only one candidate that wants to change that and it isn't Romney or Obama. Even if we don't go as far as going back to a gold standard(please don't thread jack on that, I know it's not popular) we desperately need to go back to the US Treasury Dept. controlling the currency and making the whole process controlled by the people and not private investors.

[kingkilburn]

Of all the changes to our government the creation of the FED is the most detrimental in my eyes. You can keep the Department of War, the lack of term limits for the president, the number of supreme court judges, all the special powers the executive branch has grabbed. Let them have it all but I want the FED gone.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by mantas

One more thing. Kingkillburn, i heard somewhere that a lot of young people are quite liberal but as they get older they become more conservative. If that makes any sense.... Either way the reason this happens is people get older and start voting and paying taxes and they realize there is no reason why they need to work hard and have their money taken from them. I pay a boat load in taxes and i plan on making more money not less so i want to minimize the amount of money taken from me. Not only do i pay taxes i now have to pay more for gas (absolutely Obama's fsult). My medical insurance costs quite a bit, and food prices keep climbing because of inflation. So the way i see it - i can only control one of these costs = taxes. I cant go to the store and tell the clerk im not paying $3.00 for an orange but ill give him $2.50, that wont work. I cant go to a gas station and tell the clerk to pump a few extra gallons in my tank because im unhappy that gas went up by .10 since last week. But what i can do is vote for someone who wants to cut down the amount i pay intaxes, i can make sure that no social programs get passed so i dont have to pay more state or federal taxes.

The saying goes -

A young man who is not a liberal is heartless, and an old man who is not conservative is a moron.

[beeracing s14]

stay away from fox news for crying out loud !!

[TougeSR20Kid]

Originally Posted by Corbic

The saying goes -

A young man who is not a liberal is heartless, and an old man who is not conservative is a moron.

Truth right there folks.