Such thing as a reliable SR20?

[SMatyac]

So right now my SR has a spun rod bearing because it ran low on oil. But I was planning a rebuild to build it to 400whp, and all my friends are talking me out of it because they keep saying Sr's are great motors, But they will blow up.
So i really don't want to drop 5k in a build just to have it blow and and have to drop another 5k.

Any insight? I'm not on a super tight budget, but i don't wanna waste money.
would it be better to do an rb/jz swap?
The reason I'm not just all for an rb/jz is:
1, the Sr is already in there
2, I really like turbo 4 cylinders
And 3, I already have the injectors, turbo, ecu, and manifolds I want on the Sr, so i won't have to buy anything other than the engine build.

I really want something reliable that i can build once, and be good for a long time.

Thanks for your time
-Spencer-

[Dirtcanhurt089]

Just build the week points and take care of it and you should be fine if you abuse it constantly shuts bound to brake

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

[SMatyac]

Like forged rods and forged pistons with ARP studs?
If that would make it last then I'd be perfectly fine with that. I just don't want to worry about it or anything.
I'm not so worried about a reliable car, just as long as the motor doesn't blow. I can deal with just about everything else.

[zooopreme]

I think there is. The problem with most people that I know with SR's is they don't full proof it to handle that much power and/or before they put them in, they don't rebuild/build internals.

Rebuild/Build the internals and the block and replace all parts with new parts. After that, you'll have yourself a clean and fresher engine, imo.

SR's generally can handle that much power/boost but with that money, you're better off going with a different platform. The amount of money spent on building a 400whp SR with supporting mods can get expensive. I mean if you want easy power, go V8. With the money that you're willing to spend on a SR, just go with a V8.

[Sileighty_85]

tell your friends they are fucking idoits cuz they dont know what they are talking about.

an SR's stock bottom end can handle up to 500hp

building an SR's internals will not take 5K

[feito]

my rb with bolt ons pushing around 280 has been reliable as hell for the year ive been dailying it so far. it's got it's little hicups now and then but thats expected when u drive hard in an almost daily basis...
U cant expect your car to be reliable when u constantly abuse it, period. that is of course if u bought it brand new, then im sure u can beat the shit out of it for the first 50-100k before shit starts breking down.
But if u ask me, rb is the way to go. Ive never owned an sr'ed car before thou...

[SMatyac]

Originally Posted by zooopreme

I think there is. The problem with most people that I know with SR's is they don't full proof it to handle that much power and/or before they put them in, they don't rebuild/build internals.

Rebuild/Build the internals and the block and replace all parts with new parts. After that, you'll have yourself a clean and fresher engine, imo.

SR's generally can handle that much power/boost but with that money, you're better off going with a different platform. The amount of money spent on building a 400whp SR with supporting mods can get expensive. I mean if you want easy power, go V8. With the money that you're willing to spend on a SR, just go with a V8.

Well I'm not looking for the cheapest way to get 400hp, I just wanted to see if i could make an sr20 reliable at that power. I already have all supporting mods, my car made 408whp before it spun the bearing. But it had all stock internals, so I figured while I'm in there id just build it.

As for a V8, I'm not a huge fan for some reason. I have a supercharged lt1 camaro, and its just not fun, Ive ridden in an ls1 rx7 and they don't feel as good as a turbo 4 cyl. Even my non turbo aw11 MR2 with a 4age is more fun than the stupid fast camaro. I guess I just like driving cars with small motors. They feel hyper, like they are ready to go, and when boost comes on they just scream.
(sorry for that long rant. lol)

Originally Posted by Sileighty_85

tell your friends they are fucking idoits cuz they dont know what they are talking about.

an SR's stock bottom end can handle up to 500hp

building an SR's internals will not take 5K

So would I be safe with just forged pistons once the crank is machined?

And the most money goes to having someone build it. I would feel much better having a reputable shop build a motor that they have built a hundred times before, than me do it in my garage.

[Grimace]

My SR20 (s13 redtop) has been getting 3 years of beating. Its around 400whp and is BONE STOCK internally. I've only had bullshit problems like failing heater hoses, or cracking exhaust manifolds, And the common bad IACV.

I spent 3k in parts to totally overhaul and build my engine, Its only that much because I pretty much called tomei and said send me every part for the SR you have.

You see unreliable SR's because stupid ass people have them, Or they simply don't maintain them.

[SMatyac]

Originally Posted by feito

my rb with bolt ons pushing around 280 has been reliable as hell for the year ive been dailying it so far. it's got it's little hicups now and then but thats expected when u drive hard in an almost daily basis...
U cant expect your car to be reliable when u constantly abuse it, period. that is of course if u bought it brand new, then im sure u can beat the shit out of it for the first 50-100k before shit starts breking down.
But if u ask me, rb is the way to go. Ive never owned an sr'ed car before thou...

Do you have a rb20 or rb25?
My friend had an rb20 in his r32 and it blew ass. He melted the pistons with 80k km at 18psi
He swapped an rb25 in it and that was a decent bit better, much faster and didn't blow up. haha

But if i can, I'd like to keep the Sr. I really like this motor.

[zooopreme]

I'm not a fan of V8's either but if my goals were beyond 300hp, I would much rather be using a platform that makes nearly that much stock or with minimal modification.

Stock SR bottom ends can handle up to 500hp? I was under the impression that 400hp was right at the border & then it would need to be built from then on out in order to keep it reliable. Learned something new today.

Well, if it does in fact handle up to 500hp on a stock bottom end, building the bottom end will only yield you the results that you are looking for: a reliable SR. But like mentioned, you may not even need it.

[SMatyac]

Originally Posted by Grimace

My SR20 (s13 redtop) has been getting 3 years of beating. Its around 400whp and is BONE STOCK internally. I've only had bullshit problems like failing heater hoses, or cracking exhaust manifolds, And the common bad IACV.

I spent 3k in parts to totally overhaul and build my engine, Its only that much because I pretty much called tomei and said send me every part for the SR you have.

You see unreliable SR's because stupid ass people have them, Or they simply don't maintain them.

That makes me feel a lot better. Because I really like the motor, but I hate having shit that blows up. So if I can have it hold together and still have 400whp then Ill definitely keep it.

And i forgot to mention that I have every Tomei part they sell for the top end. Which is another reason i wanna stick with the sr. lol

[240boi115]

500 hp on a stock bottom end??? im thinking yes but not for long... zooopreme has a point though.. if you prep the engine for what youre going to put it through then the sr will be fine.... there are so many people that just slap a larger turbo raise the boost and then complain about how the motor cant handle power...no engine can handle high hp if it isnt built right...

[SMatyac]

Originally Posted by zooopreme

I'm not a fan of V8's either but if my goals were beyond 300hp, I would much rather be using a platform that makes nearly that much stock or with minimal modification.

Stock SR bottom ends can handle up to 500hp? I was under the impression that 400hp was right at the border & then it would need to be built from then on out in order to keep it reliable. Learned something new today.

Well, if it does in fact handle up to 500hp on a stock bottom end, building the bottom end will only yield you the results that you are looking for: a reliable SR. But like mentioned, you may not even need it.

Yeah that makes a lot of since.

And i guess if i don't even need to fully build the motor then hell yeah!

[Kingtal0n]

for a reliable engine at 250 horsepower use an OEM S14/S15 sr20det boost only 12psi
For a reliable engine at 200 horsepower use an OEM S13 sr20det boost only 7psi
For a reliable engine at 330~ horsepower use an OEM LSx
For a reliable engine at 480~ horsepower use an OEM 2jz-gte w/ turbo/injector upgrade

Once you pass the 550 mark your options are limited to the capacity of your wallet to find the right machine shop and buy the right parts and power of prayer.
Notice all options include OEM parts as much as possible. By using OEM parts you are rewarded with OEM service life, which is anywhere from 50k-250k miles.
Just because you use forged parts doesnt mean the engine will be more reliable. Often it becomes less reliable, and more sloppy and gives more blow-by.

[mr_eh]

I have a 500whp sr20, if you are worried about reliability maybe this is a bad hobby to dive into.

[silviaNC]

Im expecting 450-500 on my build
First off head gasket. Head/main/rods arp studs is a must. Upgrade oil pan, oil pickup and in my case the oil ports on block, internals, wideband and how good of a tune you get will determine how long is going to last. Do it right and be patient

[Sileighty_85]

Originally Posted by SMatyac

So would I be safe with just forged pistons once the crank is machined?

And the most money goes to having someone build it. I would feel much better having a reputable shop build a motor that they have built a hundred times before, than me do it in my garage.

Might as well do Pistons, rods and bearings while its ripped apart.

Originally Posted by 240boi115

500 hp on a stock bottom end??? im thinking yes but not for long... zooopreme has a point though.. if you prep the engine for what youre going to put it through then the sr will be fine.... there are so many people that just slap a larger turbo raise the boost and then complain about how the motor cant handle power...no engine can handle high hp if it isnt built right...

Check out Steve Shadows hes tuned quiet a few at the power level and they hold up fine. Its all in the tune.

Main reason ppl blow them up is from poor preventive maint and dumb fucks slapping on bigger turbos and trying to tune it with an SAFC and higer fuel pressure.

[Anhell_ito]

if u build and maintain a motor right it will never blow.

[Sileighty_85]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

Notice all options include OEM parts as much as possible. By using OEM parts you are rewarded with OEM service life, which is anywhere from 50k-250k miles.
Just because you use forged parts doesnt mean the engine will be more reliable. Often it becomes less reliable, and more sloppy and gives more blow-by.

That makes no sense.. So what your saying is a built engine with high quality parts is worse than a OEM engine?

Majority of OEM engines now adays are built with cost efficiveness in mind. cheapest part to get the job done but still trying to maintain reliablity.

I built my SR20 in my living room about 5 years ago, DD'd, countless 400 mile 7 hour straight trips one way, Drifted and beat on it every day and weekend.

Still rocking to this day never had an issue even was still rocking the Stock oil pan until a 8 months ago

Its all about the quality of parts used and who puts it together.

[jamg]

find new friends who know what they are talking about..

Originally Posted by Sileighty_85

tell your friends they are fucking idoits cuz they dont know what they are talking about.

an SR's stock bottom end can handle up to 500hp

building an SR's internals will not take 5K

i thought it was rated to 400whp?

i feel a lot better knowing it can handle up to 500. the flow if the head in my motor is built so i'm not worried about that, but i did get a OEM bottom end rebuld.

i feel a lot safer boosting 20+psi now lol. the tune i have is sufficient so i guess we'll just have to see.

[S13CoupeLover]

WPC everything while your at it. lol.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by Sileighty_85

That makes no sense.. So what your saying is a built engine with high quality parts is worse than a OEM engine?

Majority of OEM engines now adays are built with cost efficiveness in mind. cheapest part to get the job done but still trying to maintain reliablity.

I built my SR20 in my living room about 5 years ago, DD'd, countless 400 mile 7 hour straight trips one way, Drifted and beat on it every day and weekend.

Still rocking to this day never had an issue even was still rocking the Stock oil pan until a 8 months ago

Its all about the quality of parts used and who puts it together.

you said it right there- who puts it together. who uses the dial bore gauge and who operates the machine that puts the finishing touch on the cylinder walls. who checks the roundness and straightness of all the parts, and who keeps it clean during assembly.

I doubt anyone in this thread owns and operates a machine shop. therefore, somebody else will be doing those things. We are back to who does what. I do not blame the forged pistons for the blow-by and reduced oil quality. I blame the guy that put the wrong finish on the cylinder walls and made the piston/wall clearance too large. I blame the guy who lets the engine sit open in a room where the billions of airborne debris particulate have a chance to get inside.

FURTHERMORE, the cost of rebuilding an SR20DET with forged pistons more than rivals the cost of an OEM 2jz-gte engine, which we all know is perfectly happy around 500bhp, and the finish of all the internals is, in your own words, "Majority of OEM engines now ... get the job done but still trying to maintain reliablity." - AND we know the piston/wall clearance is right, the finish is right, the engine is clean.

[Croustibat]

Originally Posted by Sileighty_85

Main reason ppl blow them up is from poor preventive maint and dumb fucks slapping on bigger turbos and trying to tune it with an SAFC and higer fuel pressure.

That.

But it is also down to how serious the engine builder is, and how much money you throw at it.

These is no secret, 200HP+/L engines need tight tolerances everywhere, which means checking everything during the build. That means using plastigauge to get the correct bearing thickness and not just the stamped number, that means machining when anything is out of round or not perfectly flat. It takes quite some time and money. It also means not cheaping out on gaskets, pumps or even bolts, and cleaning everything (oil galleries easily get clogged on SR20s, destroying the head, for example)

This holds true for any engine.

Now, a built SR20DET will do 400WHP anytime, reliably. I know some that have been putting that and more for 3+ years.

The gearbox wont though, so time to get some Z33 gearbox conversion. This will cost as much as building the engine though.

[Kingtal0n]

please do not use plastigauge

[bc.]

Originally Posted by mr_eh

I have a 500whp sr20, if you are worried about reliability maybe this is a bad hobby to dive into.

Boom, end thread.

[Croustibat]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

please do not use plastigauge

[Silverbullet]

rebuilding the SR is without a doubt the most cost effective way to make 400hp, reliabilty.

However, the feel of the engine response will greatly differ compared to a JZ/RB, or LS as they will be more responsive and direct.

[Sileighty_85]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

please do not use plastigauge

Elaborate.

Why not use a recommended bearing clearance measurement tool by the FSM?


I plasti gauged my bearings

[2muchboost]

As noted by everyone, you can make a very reliable 400-500whp SR but it will take some cash and tight tolerances. Do not leave any weak links and do not skimp out on parts and labor. Find a machine shop with good reputation and be smart about your parts selection. When your building to that level every single detail counts so sit down and start writing down a wish list...then run the wishlist by your machinist/builder and get their input and go from there.

I sold a fully built SR which was spec-ed out for approximately 900rwhp....I was planning on running 600 so I wanted some safety buffer built in. Now for that same price that I paid between parts and machining labor (which was low in comparison to most people) I decided that for my personal goal a bigger motor was going to be the key. So I choose to go with a custom 2jz setup which is rather OEM in comparison to the built SR. Was the actual motor cheaper than the 2jz setup...yes. Overall has this build been cheaper than the SR....hell no and by miles. As with any build if you want reliability and power there is no exception to funding and details. Though I did not rebuild the internals of the motor or have any real machining work done the other details of my build far surpassed those of my SR. I can honestly tell you that the cost of my standalone is about 2/3 the cost of my entire built SR setup if not more. So keep in mind that deciding to go with a 2j or LS setup it takes some money in comparison. Now if your talking about building a 1000whp SR then its basically apples to apples.

I say sit down write down realistic goals then spec out what the parts and labor may cost between a swap and a rebuild and decide from there.

[Croustibat]

Originally Posted by Silverbullet

rebuilding the SR is without a doubt the most cost effective way to make 400hp, reliabilty.

However, the feel of the engine response will greatly differ compared to a JZ/RB, or LS as they will be more responsive and direct.

Compared to an LS, maybe. Compared to a JZ/RB, i dont think so. An engine can rev stupidly fast when it has light internals. JZ/RB are really strong, they have quite some potential (rb25/26, the RB20 is a joke), they make some great noises, but engine response ? No, not really. There are ways to get better, but the engine response stock is not great at all. Their internals are heavy, the transmission is heavy, and the clutch fan does not help either. When they are stock, they feel like jet engines; it feels like a giant hand pushes the car forward, gently at first then stronger.

Nothing like a modified engine feels, really. This would much more feel like the giant hand slaps your face and your back every time you touch that throttle, which is the very definition of "fun"