Maximum TIRE(Rubber) fitment thread

[gsracer]

Originally Posted by SicBastard

My budy Miguel at RMJ motorsports was the one that got me started really thinking about this when he asked me if I thought 275s would work with stock fenders on his new hatch.

After all the research I thought I'd share a specific example presuming you wanted the same wheels and tires in front and back.

From my max rubber post (max backspace is about the same on both s13 and s14)
MAX backspace Front~ 150-159mm
MAX backspace Rear~ 172-179mm

Max Frontspace with stock fenders with R+P:

S13 Front 95-105
S13 Rear 80-95
S14 Front 109-116
S14 Rear 97-117 (107 really is perfect with a good r+p)

The perfect s13: these wheels will fit with stock fenders after a good (not crazy) roll and pull!
Front: 150bs + 104fs = 17x10 +23
Rear: 172bs +82fs = 17x10 + 32-45

You could buy a set of four of the same higher offset wheels and just use a spacer in front to get the proper offset.

Front: 150bs + 91.3fs = 18x9.5 +29.35
Rear: 172bs + 69.3fs = 18x9.5 +25.6-51.3

If you want 9.5" wide wheels for example:
I kow 5zigen makes a 18x9.5 +35 which would be perfect in the rear, and in the front would work perfect w/ a 1/2" spacer


FYI: I consider Rolled and Pulled fenders to still be stock.

You can uses 120mm of front spacing on the back of an s14 with a 295/30 with stock pulled quarter panels if you give them a good yank.

thats like an 11 inch wide +18 or a 10 +0 or +5

You just have to be carefull after it was all siad and done before i went widebody, i had pulled the rears out something like 35mm, i had seperated all the spot welds in the wheel well from pulling so much, it wasnt a big deal, i just stitch welded the whole area, its just something to think about.

[SicBastard]

GSracer,

I know a bit more than 116 is possible... but do you agree that if you go any further it starts to look pretty goofy, pretty quickly (not to mention the welds!)?

[gsracer]

yea my setup got to the point of 120mm front spacing on a 295 and it strated to look retarded from certain angles.

heres from my og pull days with above mentioned setup

[fliprayzin240sx]

Well as far as back spacings, you guys gotta consider what coilover/suspension you're using. Some bits are thicker diameter wise. I know when I stuffed a set of 17x10 +12 FN01 on my old Kouki, I had to run a 8mm spacers to clear my craptacular MR coilovers. Now on my current S14, I got a set of 17x10 +18 RPF1s and it clears with a 5mm spacer (could have gotten away with 3mm if i had any). This is on an Aragosta Coilover.

Oh yah, GSRacer, howd you pull the rear fenders that much? Did you cut the inner fender to pull the outter than much?

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by fliprayzin240sx

Well as far as back spacings, you guys gotta consider what coilover/suspension you're using. Some bits are thicker diameter wise. I know when I stuffed a set of 17x10 +12 FN01 on my old Kouki, I had to run a 8mm spacers to clear my craptacular MR coilovers. Now on my current S14, I got a set of 17x10 +18 RPF1s and it clears with a 5mm spacer (could have gotten away with 3mm if i had any). This is on an Aragosta Coilover.

Oh yah, GSRacer, howd you pull the rear fenders that much? Did you cut the inner fender to pull the outter than much?

I presume that these clearance issues were in the front only? What was hitting, the springs?

[nismoskyz]

so my plan (or my dream, rather, since that's pretty much what it is at this point) is to eventually set up my hatch for the track...

Currently pushing 205 F and 225 R on 17x7 :P with loads of understeer (which I'm sure is due to the stagger) that's all i can afford for now.

Anyway, I'm wondering (if it hasn't been covered already), what would be the optimal sizes to run on an S13.

Of course, wider is better, but where's the limit... 275, 335, 875??? lol
I'm sure at some point the width would start imposing a negative effect on the handling, etc...?

I've seen 275s even up to 335s in this thread, if I'm not mistaken, but I'm just curious as to what type of setup would yield the best performance (assuming we're running a capable tire in any of the sizes)

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by nismoskyz

so my plan (or my dream, rather, since that's pretty much what it is at this point) is to eventually set up my hatch for the track...

Currently pushing 205 F and 225 R on 17x7 :P with loads of understeer (which I'm sure is due to the stagger) that's all i can afford for now.

Anyway, I'm wondering (if it hasn't been covered already), what would be the optimal sizes to run on an S13.

Of course, wider is better, but where's the limit... 275, 335, 875??? lol
I'm sure at some point the width would start imposing a negative effect on the handling, etc...?

I've seen 275s even up to 335s in this thread, if I'm not mistaken, but I'm just curious as to what type of setup would yield the best performance (assuming we're running a capable tire in any of the sizes)

It depends on how much HP you have. On a stock KA a 255 width tire is all it can really push. Now if you are talking about a 300whp SR, VQ, RB, etc.... you can run a 275 easily or even wider if you wanna go up to 18" wheels.

[nismoskyz]

Hey racepar1, what ever happened to the GT4 Lap times thread? :P

Would you please elaborate on what exactly you mean by "On a stock KA a 255 width tire is all it can really push"?

Well, my KA is currently stock. However, in my question, I should have included to assume the motor is pushing 300-400 whp.

I understand you can go wider, but I guess what I'm asking here is, is there a limit to how wide you can go? If so, what is that limiting factor?

For example, why shouldn't I run 13" wide wheels with 345s on them (Enzo Ferrari rear setup)?

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by nismoskyz

Hey racepar1, what ever happened to the GT4 Lap times thread? :P

Would you please elaborate on what exactly you mean by "On a stock KA a 255 width tire is all it can really push"?

Well, my KA is currently stock. However, in my question, I should have included to assume the motor is pushing 300-400 whp.

I understand you can go wider, but I guess what I'm asking here is, is there a limit to how wide you can go? If so, what is that limiting factor?

For example, why shouldn't I run 13" wide wheels with 345s on them (Enzo Ferrari rear setup)?

The thread died and I was tired of putting all that effort for only 2 or 3 people to be willing to participate.

On a stock KA a 255 width tire is all the motor can push. For example in turn 2 at big willow (a looonnnnggggg right hand sweeper that is flat out @80 MPH or so) with 255 azenis I could only manage to hold my speed due to tire scrub. With wider tires the additional friction would have actually slowed the car down most likely. Now with more HP I could run much wider rubber and still be able to "push" them through the corner. When you go with wider tires you also increase your steering effort and decrease turn-in response slightly. When I go with the VQ, which I plan on building up to 300whp, I plan on going with 275/40/17's all around to start and eventually to a 285/xx/18 all around. If I ever go LS1 I will actually run a bit of stagger to control all that torque, probably like a 285/305 stagger or so. I do not believe that staggering more than 2 sizes (20 mil) is a good idea though.

[nismoskyz]

Originally Posted by racepar1

The thread died and I was tired of putting all that effort for only 2 or 3 people to be willing to participate.

On a stock KA a 255 width tire is all the motor can push. For example in turn 2 at big willow (a looonnnnggggg right hand sweeper that is flat out @80 MPH or so) with 255 azenis I could only manage to hold my speed due to tire scrub. With wider tires the additional friction would have actually slowed the car down most likely. Now with more HP I could run much wider rubber and still be able to "push" them through the corner. When you go with wider tires you also increase your steering effort and decrease turn-in response slightly. When I go with the VQ, which I plan on building up to 300whp, I plan on going with 275/40/17's all around to start and eventually to a 285/xx/18 all around. If I ever go LS1 I will actually run a bit of stagger to control all that torque, probably like a 285/305 stagger or so. I do not believe that staggering more than 2 sizes (20 mil) is a good idea though.

I see... I'm just waiting for the final version of GT5 to come out... That oughtta be something else.
-
Okay so I searched around for what "tire scrub" means and I came up with this link along with a couple of your own posts.
So basically, it seems to me that tire scrub is kind of like the rolling resistance produced by the friction of the tire on the ground??
A wider tire will have more friction and so, although it will provide more grip, it will also require more power from the motor to make it rotate? Does that sound right?

Also, can you please explain how a staggered 285/305 setup is better at controlling torque than, say, a 305 all around setup? Would 305s all around be preferable for gripping, disregarding fender clearance issues? If for instance, you were pushing enough power, why wouldn't you go with 345s all around?
Here I am asking:
Why stagger vs just selecting 305 all around?
Whats stopping you from selecting a ridiculously large tire size even if your motor can hang with it?


I'm also trying to gain some more knowledge about staggering tires and have found quite a few resources discouraging staggered setups, but that causes me to wonder why an Enzo Ferrari comes with a 245F-345R setup.
Smaller tires up front induces understeer doesn't it?

Sorry for the long-winded questions...
Thanks.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by nismoskyz

I see... I'm just waiting for the final version of GT5 to come out... That oughtta be something else.

I'm eagerly anticipating that as well.

Okay so I searched around for what "tire scrub" means and I came up with this link along with a couple of your own posts.
So basically, it seems to me that tire scrub is kind of like the rolling resistance produced by the friction of the tire on the ground??
A wider tire will have more friction and so, although it will provide more grip, it will also require more power from the motor to make it rotate? Does that sound right?

Exactly, but it is only a real factor when the car is turning as the amount of resistance increases dramatically.

Also, can you please explain how a staggered 285/305 setup is better at controlling torque than, say, a 305 all around setup? Would 305s all around be preferable for gripping, disregarding fender clearance issues? If for instance, you were pushing enough power, why wouldn't you go with 345s all around?
Here I am asking:
Why stagger vs just selecting 305 all around?
Whats stopping you from selecting a ridiculously large tire size even if your motor can hang with it?

Because a 285 in the front is more than the car really needs already, but with all the torque that a LS puts out it may need a bit more rubber to put that to the ground effectively.

I'm also trying to gain some more knowledge about staggering tires and have found quite a few resources discouraging staggered setups, but that causes me to wonder why an Enzo Ferrari comes with a 245F-345R setup.
Smaller tires up front induces understeer doesn't it?

Sorry for the long-winded questions...
Thanks.

The Ferarri runs a shit ton of stagger because most of the weight is in the back of the car. You need larger tires to keep the car from oversteering. Add a pretty powerful motor and you can see why they need so muck stagger.

[nismoskyz]

Interesting... okay I think I've got it now though, thanks a lot man, your responses really helped me to understand this stuff properly.

Now, with that said, running 17 x 7s on my stock KADE, trying to make it as sticky a car as it can be in its current form, what tire sizes would you recommend?

Of course this is nothing close to "Maximum Rubber" relative to other posts in this thread, however, I'm looking for the Maximum relative to what I can stuff on my wheels :P without negative side effects. (come on, this is pretty much the "grip" thread anyway)

215 is the recommended size for 7" wide and I've even seen some people saying they run 235s on it, however, like I said I'm currently running 205F-225R. The fronts are currently some fairly low (I think 180) treadwear yokohamas, while the rears are some incredibly sticky (compared to what I was used to before) RE070s, which rate at 140.

These are getting close to worn, so I'm thinking about purchasing some Feddy RS-Rs as I've been reading good things about them. What sizes do you think would go best?
However, the car is my daily so I'm also on the edge of getting some plain ol' 595s instead... i'm not quite sure yet, my RE070s did wear out pretty quickly, but they stick so goood.

[SicBastard]

Most tire manufacturers list the wheel widths that their tires were engineered for. Alot of real engineering goes into these things and I really believe in taking their recommendations to heart.

Federal reccomends not going >225 on a 17x7 wheel.

â—ŽFederal Tire - 595RS - Dimension Data â—Ž

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by nismoskyz

Interesting... okay I think I've got it now though, thanks a lot man, your responses really helped me to understand this stuff properly.

Now, with that said, running 17 x 7s on my stock KADE, trying to make it as sticky a car as it can be in its current form, what tire sizes would you recommend?

Of course this is nothing close to "Maximum Rubber" relative to other posts in this thread, however, I'm looking for the Maximum relative to what I can stuff on my wheels :P without negative side effects. (come on, this is pretty much the "grip" thread anyway)

215 is the recommended size for 7" wide and I've even seen some people saying they run 235s on it, however, like I said I'm currently running 205F-225R. The fronts are currently some fairly low (I think 180) treadwear yokohamas, while the rears are some incredibly sticky (compared to what I was used to before) RE070s, which rate at 140.

These are getting close to worn, so I'm thinking about purchasing some Feddy RS-Rs as I've been reading good things about them. What sizes do you think would go best?
However, the car is my daily so I'm also on the edge of getting some plain ol' 595s instead... i'm not quite sure yet, my RE070s did wear out pretty quickly, but they stick so goood.

What he said.

Originally Posted by SicBastard

Most tire manufacturers list the wheel widths that their tires were engineered for. Alot of real engineering goes into these things and I really believe in taking their recommendations to heart.

Federal reccomends not going >225 on a 17x7 wheel.

â—ŽFederal Tire - 595RS - Dimension Data â—Ž

[nismoskyz]

Perfect. Thanks for that sizing chart link.

Appreciate the help.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Originally Posted by SicBastard

I presume that these clearance issues were in the front only? What was hitting, the springs?

Yup, up front. Then again my cars are low too. I could easily gain 10mm or so of strut clearance if the perches sit above the rim lip. But that would equate to having a 4x4 of a S14.

[xs240]

racepar1 u need to start making in car videos of your track days

[RAMM]

Last season i ran 255/40-17 all around w/ a KA24DE making around 150whp/165ftlbstq.

I really enjoyed the non-staggered setup, especially for rotating tires.

This upcoming 09' season I plan on running street tires again
Front: 275/40-17
Rear: 285/40-17
along with more whp.

Here's a few pics of last years setup

[cdlong]

wheel specs? roll/pull?

[RAMM]

17x9 +22 all around (last season)

This year im going to run
17x9 +22 fronts
17x9.5 +18 rears

Stock front fenders
Very slight pull, with a good roll.

[cdlong]

i probably should have asked this the first time, what's your suspension clearance like? that's pretty much what i want to run.

[RAMM]

The rear suspension has no issues.
For the front I had to run a small 5-8mm just to clear the inboard of the tire. That's all. Nothing major. Also had to adjust the caster up front for the 255's to clear properly.
Note: With -3.5 camber up front my 255's were flush with the top of my front fender.

[nismoskyz]

you've got a clean looking setup there RAMM, that rear angle looks pretty aggressive

so you were running 255 RT-615s ?
What tires do you plan on running on your
"Front: 275/40-17
Rear: 285/40-17"
setup?

[RAMM]

Originally Posted by nismoskyz

you've got a clean looking setup there RAMM, that rear angle looks pretty aggressive

so you were running 255 RT-615s ?
What tires do you plan on running on your
"Front: 275/40-17
Rear: 285/40-17"
setup?

yes, last season I ran the RT615's. They were good to get used to on a new car setup, but their major downside was not being able to hold/control heat properly. The first few sessions of each track day were my fastest, towards the end of the day my tires would grease up and it would be a battle between me and controlling the car. Still a good learning experience though.

This upcoming season, and I stress season because i live in chicago. I am planning on running Kumho XS's. Mainly due to their previous history with their R-Comp tires and their good sizing that's available for the 17inch. Also 180 u.t.q.g is still considered a competitive rating for a street tire. If anyone has any other suggestions, im more than willing to try another tire?

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by xs240

racepar1 u need to start making in car videos of your track days

I haven't been to an event since I think june.

I've got one coming next weekend though.

Originally Posted by RAMM

yes, last season I ran the RT615's. They were good to get used to on a new car setup, but their major downside was not being able to hold/control heat properly. The first few sessions of each track day were my fastest, towards the end of the day my tires would grease up and it would be a battle between me and controlling the car. Still a good learning experience though.

This upcoming season, and I stress season because i live in chicago. I am planning on running Kumho XS's. Mainly due to their previous history with their R-Comp tires and their good sizing that's available for the 17inch. Also 180 u.t.q.g is still considered a competitive rating for a street tire. If anyone has any other suggestions, im more than willing to try another tire?

Dunlop direzza z1 star specs. Get them.........

[RPS13-604]

Originally Posted by racepar1

I haven't been to an event since I think june.

I've got one coming next weekend though.



Dunlop direzza z1 star specs. Get them.........

Yup get the Z1 star spec tires they grip like crazy i have them on my sr 240sx

[RedSVTFlareside]

Some progress has been made to fit the fronts a little easier.
BBS E26 wheels
17x10 275/40-17 front
17x12 315/35-17 rear

[xs240]

^That looks awesome! What offset?

[longfellow]

I wrecked my car. So while I'm in the process of rebuilding, I went ahead with this:

(its not finished yet.)

But 275's up front slammed no problem . (car wont be slammed though)

[longfellow]

Its not finished yet.