S13/S14 to 350Z

[Mr.slipngrip]

Yea I just sold my 06 G35. It was quick and all but just didn't feel right, originally I had a 88Shiro(z31) now I'm back to a s13 with a rb25 lol.

[Corbic]

I owned a 03 Touring for about 4 years. I've owned my S13 for 8 years.

The 350Z is a great car in stock form... for what it is. However over time it wore on me. The fuel-economy which was great in 03 by today is deplorable. I was getting ~19mpg. The interior styling was cool but my paint was worse for wear.

Suspension, LSD, power, the Z has a lot on a typical 240sx. Sure a SR swapped 240 will be quicker, but it's also not as smooth or stable.

The biggest hold back on the Z is the community of GTL Jersey douchebags who can't turn a wrench and spend their time doing stupid cosmetic mods. I believe as the cars get cheaper they will quickly DOMINATE the world the S13/14 once stood on.

Yes, at $14k no one is thinking of pulling out that VQ, but at $5k... hello LS, RB, JZ, VK even SR swaps. You'll even have a much stronger 6spd trans, a factory LSD, brakes that are 1-billion times nicer and a more solid, competent car.

I would take a Swapped Z over Swapped 240sx any day.

[MIZOAM]

Originally Posted by simmode1

WTF is this stupid shit? Of course you can't compare an s13 with a stock KA to a Z33. But an SR with mild bolt-ons or KA-T stomps mud holes in the VQ35DE. It will be very expensive to make any of the N/A VQ's keep up with the average SR or KA-T, IMO.

The Z33's chassis is far more rigid though, so its got that going for itself.

I'd pick a Z33 if I was ok with either never having over 300whp or LOADS of cash to turbo it properly. But seriously, I think that engine is junk. Too bad it wasn't the VQ30DET. That would be a different story.

Calm down.

I said in my original post I cant talk about the SR. If OP lives in North America like me, in which all S chassis came with a KA, then ya, stock car vs. stock car the 350Z destroys the 240 (which is what my original post was about). You cant talk about modded car vs. modded car on this topic btw because its pointless as any car can beat any other car with enough modification. I really wanna stress too that I doubt the extra ~50hp with an SR S chassis would be enough to beat a 350Z anyways. I havent driven an SR but I did own a 350Z and now a 240sx, and the 350Z would beat my S13 in straight line and in the curves. My S13 is still awesome and I love it but ya, Z33 > S13 (KA)

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by MIZOAM

Calm down.

I said in my original post I cant talk about the SR. If OP lives in North America like me, in which all S chassis came with a KA, then ya, stock car vs. stock car the 350Z destroys the 240 (which is what my original post was about). You cant talk about modded car vs. modded car on this topic btw because its pointless as any car can beat any other car with enough modification. I really wanna stress too that I doubt the extra ~50hp with an SR S chassis would be enough to beat a 350Z anyways. I havent driven an SR but I did own a 350Z and now a 240sx, and the 350Z would beat my S13 in straight line and in the curves. My S13 is still awesome and I love it but ya, Z33 > S13 (KA)

BPU1 SR20DET will run low 13's

DE Z33 will typically be low 14's

HR Z33 will run low 13's

You can drop 2-3k into a SR and it will make 300-400hp. You can't do that with a VQ. However, it's a even race to 400whp if you need to swap a SR+Upgrade or just turbo the VQ.

VQ DE engines tend to get iffy around 400-450whp. HRs are beasts.

[ixfxi]

ill take a straight motor over a V motor ANY day

too bad the s30 is ancient history

[drift freaq]

Lol what a shitfest this is. Hmm swapping other engines into the 240sx? Classic American hot rod action. Except when it winds up costing way to much or is way to much work, it no longer becomes worth it. Hence why even though a VQ swapped S chassis is / can be fun it's just to much trouble. I won't deny 6 cylinders rule having owned and driven an RB swapped S13 and being a veteran of 240z's .

In the end to the OP go out and dive a Z33 if you like it buy it. Stop paying attention to internet opinions because on the internet opinions are like assholes everyone has one.
Ya I daily a 98 BMW M3 4/5 now . I love it for the power and handling not so much the mileage. lol I will probably pick up a beater gas sipper as well. I am also planning on picking up another Sports car.
I might sell my S13, in fact it's in the classifieds as I speak. I might put a Kouki 180 front on it and keep it.
In the end whatever I do the final decision will be based on my own intentions not what someone on the internet says I should do. lol

Originally Posted by ixfxi

ill take a straight motor over a V motor ANY day

too bad the s30 is ancient history

Mike I will take that ancient history and raise it an RB or your much disliked V engine.

[Matej]

Y'all can have the worst of both worlds.

[drift freaq]

^^^^^ that has got to be one of the ugliest if not ugliest Z33 I have ever seen.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

^^^^^ that has got to be one of the ugliest if not ugliest Z33 I have ever seen.

It's a S13 with Z33 front

[Bushido]

good one Matej




poops.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Corbic

It's a S13 with Z33 front

Ok that's the ugliest s13 I have ever seen no matter how you take it it still comes up fugly.

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by MIZOAM

You cant talk about modded car vs. modded car on this topic btw because its pointless as any car can beat any other car with enough modification. I really wanna stress too that I doubt the extra ~50hp with an SR S chassis would be enough to beat a 350Z anyways. I havent driven an SR but I did own a 350Z and now a 240sx, and the 350Z would beat my S13 in straight line and in the curves.)

I just didn't see the point of comparing a USDM S-chassis to a Z33. That's like comparing oranges to apples. But it's not pointless to compare a modded s-chassis to a Z if you're knowledgeable enough & set common sense parameters. For example: for the price you'd spend buying a Z33, how far could you take an S-chassis? Start your comparison there rather than citing stock performance that anyone could see just looking at their specs.

You doubt the SR's extra 50hp over the KA would make a difference against a Z33. You're probably right there. BUT WHO THE FUCK LEAVES AN SR STOCK?! Even on the stock T25, the SR with cheap bolt on mods and 14psi will equal the WHP of the Z33. Not to mention the T28 or better. All for less than the price of the Z.

The OP asked if he should pick S14 or Z33. I'd frame my thought process like this:
- Do you value inexpensive & visceral performance most? S14 will give you tons of that for what you'd spend on the Z.
- Do you value a slightly more refined & updated cruiser more? 350z has you covered, but omg if oy want boost, look elsewhere. Its gonna make that engine bay as cramped & hard to work in as a Z32TT and the VQde's aren't really up to the task.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by simmode1

I just didn't see the point of comparing a USDM S-chassis to a Z33. That's like comparing oranges to apples. But it's not pointless to compare a modded s-chassis to a Z if you're knowledgeable enough & set common sense parameters. For example: for the price you'd spend buying a Z33, how far could you take an S-chassis? Start your comparison there rather than citing stock performance that anyone could see just looking at their specs.

There are a lot of variables that go into it. For example, sure 11k cash will buy most Z's and one crazy Shit-chasis. However, how many people have 11k cash for a car? Many would likely finance the Z, so 2k down, thats $215 a month for 4 years. Most guys working at 7/11 can swing that.

Now if you go and buy a roller/single-cammer/project for $2k... you are driving a pile of shit for a VERY LONG TIME before you can match that stock 350Z.

Very few 240's are a turbo upgrade away from being cool. Many need lots of restoration and work. Thats money and down time. Changing out all those bushings, fixing rust, figuring out how to get A/C working again, chasing electrical issues, rebuilding blown JDM-yo motors.

Originally Posted by simmode1

You doubt the SR's extra 50hp over the KA would make a difference against a Z33. You're probably right there. BUT WHO THE FUCK LEAVES AN SR STOCK?! Even on the stock T25, the SR with cheap bolt on mods and 14psi will equal the WHP of the Z33. Not to mention the T28 or better. All for less than the price of the Z.

From what I see, most people leave them stock actually. Most of the cool looking cars are actually still N/A KAs (they left no money for speed).

Daemon could have had 2 x Z33s for the cost of this guy...

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Lol what a shitfest this is. Hmm swapping other engines into the 240sx? Classic American hot rod action. Except when it winds up costing way to much or is way to much work, it no longer becomes worth it. Hence why even though a VQ swapped S chassis is / can be fun it's just to much trouble. I won't deny 6 cylinders rule having owned and driven an RB swapped S13 and being a veteran of 240z's .

In the end to the OP go out and dive a Z33 if you like it buy it. Stop paying attention to internet opinions because on the internet opinions are like assholes everyone has one.
Ya I daily a 98 BMW M3 4/5 now . I love it for the power and handling not so much the mileage. lol I will probably pick up a beater gas sipper as well. I am also planning on picking up another Sports car.
I might sell my S13, in fact it's in the classifieds as I speak. I might put a Kouki 180 front on it and keep it.
In the end whatever I do the final decision will be based on my own intentions not what someone on the internet says I should do. lol

Mike I will take that ancient history and raise it an RB or your much disliked V engine.

oh shit..........

dave, what brings you back from the dead?

i found your classified ad here:
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant...556234458.html

<grin>

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by Corbic

There are a lot of variables that go into it. For example, sure 11k cash will buy most Z's and one crazy Shit-chasis. However, how many people have 11k cash for a car? Many would likely finance the Z, so 2k down, thats $215 a month for 4 years. Most guys working at 7/11 can swing that.

Now if you go and buy a roller/single-cammer/project for $2k... you are driving a pile of shit for a VERY LONG TIME before you can match that stock 350Z.

Very few 240's are a turbo upgrade away from being cool. Many need lots of restoration and work. Thats money and down time. Changing out all those bushings, fixing rust, figuring out how to get A/C working again, chasing electrical issues, rebuilding blown JDM-yo motors.

From what I see, most people leave them stock actually. Most of the cool looking cars are actually still N/A KAs (they left no money for speed).

Daemon could have had 2 x Z33s for the cost of this guy...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8040/8...76c0a6e7_z.jpg

You're preaching to the choir. My point is that I'd never say the 350Z > 240sx or vice versa because of all of the variables that should be considered. That decision should come down to: What are you looking for from this car & what is your budget?

Both are good, but there is point of receding returns that the Z hits before the S-chassis, IMO. But to beat a dead horse: S2000 turbo = better then both.

[InsTanCeZ]

Bro get an SC300.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by InsTanCeZ

Bro get an SC300.

Framed Windows.

[TMW]

jzz30 is a cool car too. theres a thread in the ot about them.

thats what i wanted this thread to be like, discussing s chassis vs z33 and posting cool pics of them

[InsTanCeZ]

Yashio Factory

[TMW]

[simmode1]

I love 350Z's. I just don't think they're worth the trouble to boost.


SC300 is a great idea. Put it on a diet & swap in the 1JZ + the 350z's CD009 transmission. More bang for your buck than Z33, IMO.


But like I said earlier... Z33's are quickly on their way to replacing the S-Chassis as the dominant pile of shit drift car.

[Bushido]

Z33 just looks so... BUBBALIZED

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by InsTanCeZ

Bro get an SC300.

Originally Posted by simmode1

SC300 is a great idea. Put it on a diet & swap in the 1JZ + the 350z's CD009 transmission. More bang for your buck than Z33, IMO.

you guys are fucking retarded

have you ever even driven an SC? its not even remotely close to being a sportscar, its a fucking grand touring sports coupe.

you guys post photos of toyota soarers that come stock with 1JZ-GTE... and those cars are fully modified with widebody aero n shit -- clearly we're not talking apples with apples.

in case you fuckers forgot, here is what your average SC300 looks like:


and if you are lucky, you find a clean one like this:



so unless you're going to dump coin, and i mean some REAL money into the car... its pointless to even consider an SC. They're heavy, you cant strip weight off them easily, they dont accelerate well, turn well, stop well, etc. They only do ONE thing well: they're reliable.

Not to mention, most are automatic and have that NASTY fucking TAN interior like this:


seriously... sometimes i wonder about you guys

ps: they only came with OPEN DIFF here in the US, which blows dick too.

[stevenrapids]

I sold both my s14 and s13 to buy a Z and i do not regret it one bit. The amount of time i spent fixing both s chassis cars was to the point where its not even fun. I love having a newer car with less hassle.

[MIZOAM]

Originally Posted by simmode1

I just didn't see the point of comparing a USDM S-chassis to a Z33. That's like comparing oranges to apples. But it's not pointless to compare a modded s-chassis to a Z if you're knowledgeable enough & set common sense parameters. For example: for the price you'd spend buying a Z33, how far could you take an S-chassis? Start your comparison there rather than citing stock performance that anyone could see just looking at their specs.

You doubt the SR's extra 50hp over the KA would make a difference against a Z33. You're probably right there. BUT WHO THE FUCK LEAVES AN SR STOCK?! Even on the stock T25, the SR with cheap bolt on mods and 14psi will equal the WHP of the Z33. Not to mention the T28 or better. All for less than the price of the Z.

The OP asked if he should pick S14 or Z33. I'd frame my thought process like this:
- Do you value inexpensive & visceral performance most? S14 will give you tons of that for what you'd spend on the Z.
- Do you value a slightly more refined & updated cruiser more? 350z has you covered, but omg if oy want boost, look elsewhere. Its gonna make that engine bay as cramped & hard to work in as a Z32TT and the VQde's aren't really up to the task.

Ya, and at the end of the day you would still have a twenty year old car vs a ten year old one. And to just MATCH the performance of the newer car (350Z) you have to put on modifications which are gonna put extra strain on a twenty year old sports car engine (which has already seen its fair share of high RPM fun) = greater probability of break downs/ problems. Although the VQ35DE isnt easily modified (with concern to forced induction) its still a BULLETPROOF engine. It can take a beating and keep going. Again, I have owned both a 350Z and an S chassis and its a no brainer that the 350Z> S chassis. Its only my opinion but I think most people would agree that the newer sports car with the bigger engine/ newer technology is going to be the better car.

Another poster on here said the 350Z will eventually take over the S chassis place in the drift scene once they become cheap enough. I completely agree. The FRS/BRZ/350Z is the next generations drift missile.

[InsTanCeZ]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

you guys are fucking retarded

have you ever even driven an SC? its not even remotely close to being a sportscar, its a fucking grand touring sports coupe.

you guys post photos of toyota soarers that come stock with 1JZ-GTE... and those cars are fully modified with widebody aero n shit -- clearly we're not talking apples with apples.

in case you fuckers forgot, here is what your average SC300 looks like:

and if you are lucky, you find a clean one like this:


so unless you're going to dump coin, and i mean some REAL money into the car... its pointless to even consider an SC. They're heavy, you cant strip weight off them easily, they dont accelerate well, turn well, stop well, etc. They only do ONE thing well: they're reliable.

Not to mention, most are automatic and have that NASTY fucking TAN interior like this:

seriously... sometimes i wonder about you guys

ps: they only came with OPEN DIFF here in the US, which blows dick too.

You're right. They're not going to be awesome sports cars right off the lot. You will have to dump some money into them for that. But if you're into modifying cars, dumping money into them is a given. I don't see what the issue is? lol. The whole point of modifying cars is to take a car that is not necessarily the best sports car or even a decent one, and turning it into something that either looks cooler, performs much better, or both. If you don't want to spend money to do that, then go buy a stock Porsche or something.

[ixfxi]

because right out the box, certain cars have whats called "sportscar DNA"

the sc is a boat of a car. it doesnt drive, steer, brake or behave anything like a sportscar.

an s-chassis however, does behave like a sportscar

and this is coming from someone who has an SC. its a good car, but i would never call it a sportscar... just "sporty"

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by MIZOAM

Ya, and at the end of the day you would still have a twenty year old car vs a ten year old one. And to just MATCH the performance of the newer car (350Z) you have to put on modifications which are gonna put extra strain on a twenty year old sports car engine (which has already seen its fair share of high RPM fun) = greater probability of break downs/ problems. Although the VQ35DE isnt easily modified (with concern to forced induction) its still a BULLETPROOF engine. It can take a beating and keep going. Again, I have owned both a 350Z and an S chassis and its a no brainer that the 350Z> S chassis. Its only my opinion but I think most people would agree that the newer sports car with the bigger engine/ newer technology is going to be the better car.

Another poster on here said the 350Z will eventually take over the S chassis place in the drift scene once they become cheap enough. I completely agree. The FRS/BRZ/350Z is the next generations drift missile.

I swear, this is like talking to a wall. What strain are you talking about? If your car is properly maintained, it is not a strain on an s-chassis to install an sr, which is the engine that was designed to be in there in the first place. I know you aren't very familiar with sr powered 240's, but damn, you're underrating them ALOT. You don't have to go to any extremes to make an s-chassis outperform a z33. A mild sr 240 with a bpu t28, decent suspension like koni yellows + ground controls, j30 lsd, z32 brakes & decent width rubber is more than enough to outperform a z33 for roughly the same cost. Maybe even less. But now you have a ~2800lbs car with ~280whp or so with room to grow.

Yes, you'll have to build which can take some time. Yes, the Z33 will be more refined with newer creature comforts. But it's all about what you're looking for. The OP is looking for his next drift car. It certainly doesn't take much to turn a 350z into a decent amateur drift machine. But if you ever hope to make 300whp or more to really get that almost 3400lbs chassis really moving, I'd look elsewhere due to the much higher expense of boost. But if you can be content with the 350z's N/A performance with BPUs, it's relative simplicity makes it an attractive option.

I'm just asserting my opinion that it's not as clear cut as you're making it seem. Both cars have strong pros & cons in this comparison.

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

you guys are fucking retarded

have you ever even driven an SC? its not even remotely close to being a sportscar, its a fucking grand touring sports coupe.

you guys post photos of toyota soarers that come stock with 1JZ-GTE... and those cars are fully modified with widebody aero n shit -- clearly we're not talking apples with apples.

in case you fuckers forgot, here is what your average SC300 looks like:
http://static1.esciudad.com/1993/lex...10321867_1.jpg
PO
and if you are lucky, you find a clean one like this:
http://assets.hemmings.com/uimage/[email protected]


so unless you're going to dump coin, and i mean some REAL money into the car... its pointless to even consider an SC. They're heavy, you cant strip weight off them easily, they dont accelerate well, turn well, stop well, etc. They only do ONE thing well: they're reliable.

Not to mention, most are automatic and have that NASTY fucking TAN interior like this:
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/c...0/IMG_0506.jpg

seriously... sometimes i wonder about you guys

ps: they only came with OPEN DIFF here in the US, which blows dick too.

Ok, so maybe that is YOUR reality, but its not hard to find much cleaner SC's than that here in Texas. I'll agree with you though, its heavy & more expensive than a 240 to build. But there are plenty of weight reduction guides available online for the SC. Are you gonna get it down to a 240's weight? Haha hell no or not easily anyways. But you can get it down to a 350z's weight or less and with a more powerful engine available. As for budgeting for an SC build, you gotta get s-chassis bargain basement ideas out of your head & start thinking of it as a less expensive alternative to the mkiv Supra.

But you're not the first I've heard commenting on the SC's soft, luxury character. I'll confess to not being sure what it will take to sharpen its performance outside of typical suspension/drivetrain mods, most of which are compatible with the Supra since their chassis' are so similar. But just like the s-chassis, the sc doesn't have to stay with an open diff. its got plenty of lsd options.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by simmode1

Ok, so maybe that is YOUR reality, but its not hard to find much cleaner SC's than that here in Texas. I'll agree with you though, its heavy & more expensive than a 240 to build. But there are plenty of weight reduction guides available online for the SC. Are you gonna get it down to a 240's weight? Haha hell no or not easily anyways. But you can get it down to a 350z's weight or less and with a more powerful engine available. As for budgeting for an SC build, you gotta get s-chassis bargain basement ideas out of your head & start thinking of it as a less expensive alternative to the mkiv Supra.

But you're not the first I've heard commenting on the SC's soft, luxury character. I'll confess to not being sure what it will take to sharpen its performance outside of typical suspension/drivetrain mods, most of which are compatible with the Supra since their chassis' are so similar. But just like the s-chassis, the sc doesn't have to stay with an open diff. its got plenty of lsd options.

oh come on man, you're talking to someone who likes to modify and has no problem removing *.* from my cars...

There is little you can do to make the SC a lighter car, unless you like installing things with less bolts. To give you an example, Mazda would use 3 bolts... Nissan would use 4... Lexus easily uses 5, sometimes more.

Everything on these cars are super reinforced. I have a lot of respect for Toyota, they do things in a very reliable fashion, though often excessive. I've always felt Mazda under-builds and that NISSAN is right in the middle, hence why I like NISSAN so much. But will also say that I see a difference between 90s-era NISSAN and NISSAN of today. NISSAN of today kinda skimps a bit more and parts are more commonly shared, part of the cost-cutting Ghosn initiative.

With that said, there are very few things that you can remove unless you start talking things like doors, hood/trunk, etc... and I would never consider doing that as the quality and fitment suck cock with aftermarket parts.

I've already tossed the boat-anchor seats and installed Supra seats (full manual for both seats). I've relocated the battery to the rear to help with balance. And I've installed larger brakes with negates any weight savings in exchange for real stopping power. I also installed a Soarer Torsen which is extremely hard to find (and expensive).

My point is that these cars are in a different catagory. And while they may be similar to the Supra, they're still not..... a Supra.