Switzerland bans mosque towers

[HalveBlue]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Illegal immigrants building massive towers blasting calls to prayer and prayers meant to convert non believers.

First of all, I doubt they're illegal. Since an illegal immigrant in Switzerland has not chance of obtaining a building permit.

Second, the calls to prayer are broadcast inside the mosques in Switzerland.

Third, the call to prayer is just that, to remind pious Muslims that it's time to pray. I don't see how that means they're trying to convert anybody.

Violent gangs beating up who ever they like while crying "hate crime" when people retaliate.

WTF are you talking about? Show me some references that this occurs in Switzerland on a routine basis.

Not to mention the usual running your daughter over or beating your wife beyond recognition.

Yeah, those are isolated incidents. And when they occur I expect those individuals who committed such barbarous crimes to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

A lot of these people believe that they are supposed to destroy our way of life if we don't convert and do it ourselves. That with the fact that so many refuse to assimilate to any degree makes me very wary.

Sure, there are nutbags out there. But they're not isolated to the Muslim community.

Do you honestly think that enacting a law banning the construction of minarets is going to remedy the supposed issue of intolerance within the Muslim community?

Do you believe that this law will lead to an increase in Muslims assimilating?

[ronmcdon]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

The originals Latinos, realize where Latin the language came from!. LOL

Lol, I thought Latin came from ancient Rome.
Romans were the 'OG' Latinos, I guess.

Seems counter-intuitive that 'Latinos' are applied to a group of ppl, most of which don't even speak Latin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin

Latin (lingua lătīna, pronounced [laˈtiːna]) is an Italic language[3] originally spoken in Latium and Ancient Rome. Through the Roman conquest, Latin spread throughout the Mediterranean and a large part of Europe. Romance languages such as Catalan, French, Italian, Portuguese, Romanian, and Spanish are descended from Latin,[4] while many others, especially European languages, have inherited and acquired much of their vocabulary from it. It was the international language of science and scholarship in central and western Europe until the 17th century, when it was gradually replaced by vernacular language.

[HalveBlue]

Originally Posted by ranger240

the only way to really balance this discusison out, is to argue a hypothetical issue of what would happen if a christian population amounting to 6-7% of the population in say Saudi Arabia wanted to build a big huge cathedral there. what would happen?

That's completely illogical.

Saudi Arabia is a totalitarian regime, and near theocracy. Passing such a law is exactly what I expect them to do.

The Swiss, I would hope, would have more reason in their heads.

england voted against them building a mosque in london which i believe to be the largest religious-affiliated building in england, (or maybe bigger than big ben, something like that) guess what? they said no-way.

Actually, that's not at all what happened.

There was no vote.

The Muslim group which brought up the concept decided to delay the submission of a formal application for the building.

Setback for Muslim sect's 'mega-mosque' in London -Times Online

Eventually, the zoning permit expired.

Abbey Mills Mosque - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[kingkilburn]

You can't decide that a part of the picture is to touchy for you to talk about. The issue is multifaceted and you can't ignore the parts you don't like.

It is about the culture, religion, and countries. It is about having a towering mosque right next to your house with the fact that you can't do it in their country.

I know no body wants a mosque tower next door. That is a huge part of the issue. If you don't want one of these towers next to your house you really need to reevaluate your argument.

If those in control truly want peace it will happen. The trouble is when people want the utter annihilation of their supposed enemy. There is no meet in the middle with extremist Islam, you convert or die. When the governments of Iran and Saudi Arabia go around funding mosques and towers that support extremism and terrorism in other countries there will be no peace.

Your reaction to this is bordering on hilarity to me. You refuse to actually talk about the issue but are very willing to tell me I'm wrong. I get that you are shocked and disappointed but why?

[kingkilburn]

The call to prayer is broadcast outside, with massive loud speakers. Why would you need to broadcast it inside the mosque? Or even better, why build a tower to do so. Along with the call to prayer they also play speeches meant to get you to convert.

The gangs and crazy crimes happen all over the world on a regular basis. It doesn't make the news in places that are used to it happening so you don't here about it as much as you would think. You see it on the news here(and in western Europe) because people are very shocked by the crimes.

I think banning the towers sends a clear message as to what type of behavior will not be accepted in Switzerland. While the rest of the western world try's to deal with these crimes and customs from a western frame of mind the Swiss are taking it head on in a way their culture gets. I don't think assimilation is their goal.

[Touge Noob S13]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

The originals Latinos, realize where Latin the language came from!. LOL

That I did know, both of those languages are very similer. As a Spanish speaker I can understand a good bunch of Italian since it's so similer to Spanish. It's that the other guy said latinos and white Italians in Europe which confused me.

[HalveBlue]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

You can't decide that a part of the picture is to touchy for you to talk about. The issue is multifaceted and you can't ignore the parts you don't like.

It is about the culture, religion, and countries. It is about having a towering mosque right next to your house with the fact that you can't do it in their country.

I know no body wants a mosque tower next door. That is a huge part of the issue. If you don't want one of these towers next to your house you really need to reevaluate your argument.

If those in control truly want peace it will happen. The trouble is when people want the utter annihilation of their supposed enemy. There is no meet in the middle with extremist Islam, you convert or die. When the governments of Iran and Saudi Arabia go around funding mosques and towers that support extremism and terrorism in other countries there will be no peace.

Your reaction to this is bordering on hilarity to me. You refuse to actually talk about the issue but are very willing to tell me I'm wrong. I get that you are shocked and disappointed but why?

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

The call to prayer is broadcast outside, with massive loud speakers. Why would you need to broadcast it inside the mosque? Or even better, why build a tower to do so. Along with the call to prayer they also play speeches meant to get you to convert.

The gangs and crazy crimes happen all over the world on a regular basis. It doesn't make the news in places that are used to it happening so you don't here about it as much as you would think. You see it on the news here(and in western Europe) because people are very shocked by the crimes.

I think banning the towers sends a clear message as to what type of behavior will not be accepted in Switzerland. While the rest of the western world try's to deal with these crimes and customs from a western frame of mind the Swiss are taking it head on in a way their culture gets. I don't think assimilation is their goal.

I decided to quote both your posts because they harp on the same crazy type of bullshit anyway.

So, where to begin:


To be quite frank, you're ignorant.

I've never heard of the Adhan broadcast on public PA outside of the Islamic countries. Actually, wait, I think there may be a mosque in Paris that does it. But don't quote me on that.

In any case, all the mosques in Switzerland broadcast the Adhan indoors. That's a fact.

Also, as odd as this sounds, I actually have lived next-door to a mosque before.

I can think for worse things to live next door to.

Like: airports, nuclear power plants, prisons, hosptials, oil refinaries, freeways, or ore smelters.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't really give a flying fuck if I live next to a church, synagogue, temple, or a mosque. Or any other house of worship.

But that's all neither here nor there.

Your posts illustrate an underlying current of xenophobia, ignorance, anger, and a lack of logic.

Your education regarding Islam, the Middle East, and Europe is severely lacking.

For one, you seem to link every Muslim with some crazy Wahhabist extremist or Shi'ite fundamentalist. Although I doubt very much that you know what the distinction between the two is, not to mention their respective histories.

At the same time you failed to recognize that the majority of the 400,000 Muslims in Switzerland are war refugees from Bosnia and Kosovo.

If you were informed, you'd know that Balkan Muslims share a culturally distinct history from the Arab, Sunni Arab Muslims, as well as the Iranian Shi'a Muslims, a composite of which you seem to base your Muslim-terrorist caricature on.

Nobody every denied that there are extremist individuals and groups within the Muslim community. You can find those in every religious/social/cultural demographic.

But your fantasy that all Muslims are expansionist, totalitarian, intolerant, despots that must be stopped before they overrun the rest of the world is inaccurate, misguided, ridiculous, and offensive.

[S13shaka]

the reason why the Swiss and the rest of Europe is freaking out over Islam is because of birth rate. The French birth rate is below the 2.1 ratio needed to propigate a race, while this is going on Muslims are having 7+ kids per family because of what their religion dictates. Its the same with Orthodox Jews, theyre cranking out kids.

1/3 give or take of the population of France is Muslim, in a few generations theyll become the majority, that is why Switzerland did what they did and the rest of Europe will probably follow suit to protect their ideals.

[ericcastro]

Originally Posted by HalveBlue

I decided to quote both your posts because they harp on the same crazy type of bullshit anyway.

So, where to begin:


To be quite frank, you're ignorant.

I've never heard of the Adhan broadcast on public PA outside of the Islamic countries. Actually, wait, I think there may be a mosque in Paris that does it. But don't quote me on that.

In any case, all the mosques in Switzerland broadcast the Adhan indoors. That's a fact.

Also, as odd as this sounds, I actually have lived next-door to a mosque before.

I can think for worse things to live next door to.

Like: airports, nuclear power plants, prisons, hosptials, oil refinaries, freeways, or ore smelters.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't really give a flying fuck if I live next to a church, synagogue, temple, or a mosque. Or any other house of worship.

But that's all neither here nor there.

Your posts illustrate an underlying current of xenophobia, ignorance, anger, and a lack of logic.

Your education regarding Islam, the Middle East, and Europe is severely lacking.

For one, you seem to link every Muslim with some crazy Wahhabist extremist or Shi'ite fundamentalist. Although I doubt very much that you know what the distinction between the two is, not to mention their respective histories.

At the same time you failed to recognize that the majority of the 400,000 Muslims in Switzerland are war refugees from Bosnia and Kosovo.

If you were informed, you'd know that Balkan Muslims share a culturally distinct history from the Arab, Sunni Arab Muslims, as well as the Iranian Shi'a Muslims, a composite of which you seem to base your Muslim-terrorist caricature on.

Nobody every denied that there are extremist individuals and groups within the Muslim community. You can find those in every religious/social/cultural demographic.

But your fantasy that all Muslims are expansionist, totalitarian, intolerant, despots that must be stopped before they overrun the rest of the world is inaccurate, misguided, ridiculous, and offensive.

Well said.

Originally Posted by S13shaka

the reason why the Swiss and the rest of Europe is freaking out over Islam is because of birth rate. The French birth rate is below the 2.1 ratio needed to propigate a race, while this is going on Muslims are having 7+ kids per family because of what their religion dictates. Its the same with Orthodox Jews, theyre cranking out kids.

1/3 give or take of the population of France is Muslim, in a few generations theyll become the majority, that is why Switzerland did what they did and the rest of Europe will probably follow suit to protect their ideals.

Ah, the old Catholic way. (no birth control). Out breed the other religions, lol.

[S13shaka]

there are about 1.5 billion muslims in the world and roughly a billion christians, so yeah coming soon to a theater near you


edit:
and another part of it all is lifestyle. Alot more women have entered the workplace since WWII, this and the fact that the preconceived notion of what a female's role in the world should be means alot less births, family structure is not what it was 50 years ago. Birth is something alot of responsible families dont have the time for compare this with muslims who on average traditionally follow a more 'conservative' approach to family lifestyle choices.

[kingkilburn]

Originally Posted by HalveBlue

I've never heard of the Adhan broadcast on public PA outside of the Islamic countries. Actually, wait, I think there may be a mosque in Paris that does it. But don't quote me on that.

In any case, all the mosques in Switzerland broadcast the Adhan indoors. That's a fact.

Also, as odd as this sounds, I actually have lived next-door to a mosque before.

I can think for worse things to live next door to.

Like: airports, nuclear power plants, prisons, hosptials, oil refinaries, freeways, or ore smelters.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't really give a flying fuck if I live next to a church, synagogue, temple, or a mosque. Or any other house of worship.

But that's all neither here nor there.

Your posts illustrate an underlying current of xenophobia, ignorance, anger, and a lack of logic.

Your education regarding Islam, the Middle East, and Europe is severely lacking.

For one, you seem to link every Muslim with some crazy Wahhabist extremist or Shi'ite fundamentalist. Although I doubt very much that you know what the distinction between the two is, not to mention their respective histories.

At the same time you failed to recognize that the majority of the 400,000 Muslims in Switzerland are war refugees from Bosnia and Kosovo.

If you were informed, you'd know that Balkan Muslims share a culturally distinct history from the Arab, Sunni Arab Muslims, as well as the Iranian Shi'a Muslims, a composite of which you seem to base your Muslim-terrorist caricature on.

Nobody every denied that there are extremist individuals and groups within the Muslim community. You can find those in every religious/social/cultural demographic.

But your fantasy that all Muslims are expansionist, totalitarian, intolerant, despots that must be stopped before they overrun the rest of the world is inaccurate, misguided, ridiculous, and offensive.

If you want I can find you pictures and video of the the loud speakers from all over the world.


The difference with airports, race tracks, and the like is that people tend to encroach on them. Seldom do you see a prison pop up in suburbia. I have no problem with a mosque being near my house. In fact there is one with in walking distance from me. My problem is with the towers blasting prayer over loud speakers.


I wouldn't characterize myself as any of what you said. I lived in Europe for 5 years and feel like I have a pretty good understanding of the people there. I also strive to know and understand more about people from all over the world.

I will say the vast majority of Muslims I have met that aren't Black or Asian have been pretty nutty when it comes to religious devotion, but that is just my opinion. I know where the Muslims in Europe are from. My mom actually spent a year in Hungry during the Bosnia peace keeping. I know all about how they were oppressed by the Austro-Hungarians and that they are more or less a Slavic people. The Arab cultural roots in Islam have over taken much of their own culture.



You assumed a lot about me and based off an internet forum at that. Now that is hilarious.

[GabeS14]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

In real life both parties have to be willing to make peace. Let me know when Iran lets us build a cathedral in their capitol.

Its also funny the confusion between a latino and a spanish decent. Latino could mean from latin america but could also mean that the language deries from latin whereas spanosh is of spaniard decent and derived from spanish language.

[Drift N Dragg]

Originally Posted by ericcastro

Shit, illegal immigrants cant milk the government.

I took this qoute because you are Wrong.

The Government has Sponser Healthcare For Illegal's.. Which, If you pay taxes, Means you are supporting there Healthcare = Drain on Economy ( Now you have less money in your paycheck )

Increasing Tactic's to Stop Illegals from coming over at high numbers = More TAX payer Money = Higher Taxes = Drain on Economy due to Illegal's

Public School funding for ' Illegal's ' Comes from California Tax Payers.. = Drain On State Economy

I deal with this everyday... ( Part of my job ) ..

------------------------------------------------

Now if the Swiss want to do that, and PASSED and made it LAW... SO WHAT!!!

It's not OUR country, Let them do what they want.. It's not America's Fucking Business to decide the ENTIRE WORLD's Laws...

We have Dumped out feet in places we shouldnt have and Hopefully have learned our lesson.. But probly not likey

When you Become a Citizen of Switzerland then you have a right to Bitch ...

NOW having said that, We also drain our own economy from within, from Worthless pieces of Shit that want to sit at home and get on Welfare ( NOT STATING EVERYONE ON WELFARE, but a good Chunk ).. But that is for another Thread

I Served in the Military and I respect the United States, very Much..

We do make stupid moves here, but we still are America and we will still be here in the Future after countries make there Smart/Stupid Moves.. ..

Let Other Countries learn there own lesson's .. We have enough Idoits here to Deal with...

[kingkilburn]

Originally Posted by GabeS14

Its also funny the confusion between a latino and a spanish decent. Latino could mean from latin america but could also mean that the language deries from latin whereas spanosh is of spaniard decent and derived from spanish language.

Generally the languages derived from Latin are called Romance languages. The romance part is named after Romania because their language is as close as you'll find to the original Latin(more so than what you would find in a catholic church).

[HalveBlue]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Generally the languages derived from Latin are called Romance languages. The romance part is named after Romania because their language is as close as you'll find to the original Latin(more so than what you would find in a catholic church).

No, the term Romance languages is derived from Rome, as in the Ancient Roman Empire.

If you want I can find you pictures and video of the the loud speakers from all over the world.

And as I already stated, "I've never heard of the Adhan broadcast on public PA outside of the Islamic countries. Actually, wait, I think there may be a mosque in Paris that does it. But don't quote me on that."

I'm fully aware that the call to prayer is broadcast on public speaker system in lots of countries.

This is not common in most countries outside the Islamic, and it's actually illegal in Switzerland.

The difference with airports, race tracks, and the like is that people tend to encroach on them. Seldom do you see a prison pop up in suburbia. I have no problem with a mosque being near my house. In fact there is one with in walking distance from me. My problem is with the towers blasting prayer over loud speakers.


I wouldn't characterize myself as any of what you said. I lived in Europe for 5 years and feel like I have a pretty good understanding of the people there. I also strive to know and understand more about people from all over the world.

That's good that you strive to learn about other cultures. However, despite your self-assessment, your posts illustrate a great lack of understanding about the internal and external dynamics of Muslim culture and immigration in Europe.

I will say the vast majority of Muslims I have met that aren't Black or Asian have been pretty nutty when it comes to religious devotion, but that is just my opinion. I know where the Muslims in Europe are from. My mom actually spent a year in Hungry during the Bosnia peace keeping. I know all about how they were oppressed by the Austro-Hungarians and that they are more or less a Slavic people. The Arab cultural roots in Islam have over taken much of their own culture.

What Arab cultural roots? Kosovo and Bosnia, like most of the Balkans was occupied by the Ottoman Empire (i.e. Turkey).

You assumed a lot about me and based off an internet forum at that. Now that is hilarious.

I didn't assume anything. Everything I wrote comes in response to what you wrote. That's called inference, not assumption.

[GabeS14]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Generally the languages derived from Latin are called Romance languages. The romance part is named after Romania because their language is as close as you'll find to the original Latin(more so than what you would find in a catholic church).

I think what you mean to say is that that may be the correct term
but its not the populat nor the most used. Most commonly used is just latin

[SexPanda]

I think what people need to remember about these Muslims living in Europe is that they are educated, free thinking people for the most part, unlike the people we are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. Many of those people can't even read, and just take what the Imams and what not tell them at face value. European Muslims are a much much much smaller risk for anything extreme, because they can read the Qu'ran and interpret it their own ways. And if they're real smart, they can look back and see what just a few insane Europeans did to entire groups of people, and say "oh shit, lets not let that happen"

[redline racer510]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingkilburn
Generally the languages derived from Latin are called Romance languages. The romance part is named after Romania because their language is as close as you'll find to the original Latin(more so than what you would find in a catholic church).

No, the term Romance languages is derived from Rome, as in the Ancient Roman Empire.


Quote:
If you want I can find you pictures and video of the the loud speakers from all over the world.
And as I already stated, "I've never heard of the Adhan broadcast on public PA outside of the Islamic countries. Actually, wait, I think there may be a mosque in Paris that does it. But don't quote me on that."

I'm fully aware that the call to prayer is broadcast on public speaker system in lots of countries.

This is not common in most countries outside the Islamic, and it's actually illegal in Switzerland.


Quote:
The difference with airports, race tracks, and the like is that people tend to encroach on them. Seldom do you see a prison pop up in suburbia. I have no problem with a mosque being near my house. In fact there is one with in walking distance from me. My problem is with the towers blasting prayer over loud speakers.


I wouldn't characterize myself as any of what you said. I lived in Europe for 5 years and feel like I have a pretty good understanding of the people there. I also strive to know and understand more about people from all over the world.
That's good that you strive to learn about other cultures. However, despite your self-assessment, your posts illustrate a great lack of understanding about the internal and external dynamics of Muslim culture and immigration in Europe.


Quote:
I will say the vast majority of Muslims I have met that aren't Black or Asian have been pretty nutty when it comes to religious devotion, but that is just my opinion. I know where the Muslims in Europe are from. My mom actually spent a year in Hungry during the Bosnia peace keeping. I know all about how they were oppressed by the Austro-Hungarians and that they are more or less a Slavic people. The Arab cultural roots in Islam have over taken much of their own culture.
What Arab cultural roots? Kosovo and Bosnia, like most of the Balkans was occupied by the Ottoman Empire (i.e. Turkey).


Quote:
You assumed a lot about me and based off an internet forum at that. Now that is hilarious.
I didn't assume anything. Everything I wrote comes in response to what you wrote. That's called inference, not assumption.

OWNED

I am muslim and everything that Halveblue stated is a known fact.

[kingkilburn]

Good for you.



Now let a dead thread stay dead.

[redline racer510]

Yes good for me and the answer to your question is NO

[kingkilburn]

What question?