Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) Thread

[!Zar!]

It's okay cutie, you haven't learned how to care for others yet.

Over here typing up a diatribe for what you could've said in one sentence.

Your definition of "smart" is self centered.

[mr.nismo.]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

First off - I appreciate you for actually engaging in dialogue, and not acting like a general ass-hat.

Of course. I love actual debate.

Originally Posted by !Zar!

Trump was (and still) calling it the "China Virus". This is where Biden's xenophobic comment came from.



The nationwide ban was only for non US citizens who had been in China within the last 14 days and were not immediate family member of US citizens or/and permanent residents. I agree, it's easy to Monday quarterback, but Trump admitted to knowing the importance and danger covid would bring. His lax natures were to avoid people panicing/worried.
.

While it sounds trashy saying it on national tv, it is factual it came from China. Just like how practically everyone here has probably pointed out a China turbo. Is it xenophobic to say that as well? It's just a different setting since this virus involves the world, and not a bunch of random fucks on Zilvia. I know what press conference you're referring to. However, the first mention of xenophobia was a tweet by Biden the day after the travel ban. Not direct about the ban, but why else would that be tweeted the day after? The last part about avoiding a mass panic isn't something neither you or I can honestly comment on. I understand both sides of that. As much as he makes his choice, Trump had everyone and their mom in his ear about the pros/cons of setting mass panic. Regardless of it being one case at the time.

Originally Posted by !Zar!

True, but overall, Trump doesn't believe in climate change, and feels it's something used to hamper Americans from living free.

Yes/no. He's gone back and forth on it. I've seen quotes from it's mythical, to maybe there's some human interaction but how much is natural/manmade, etc.. in regard to the Paris Accord it was specifically about the US throwing money at something non-binding, and where the other biggest polluters had made no commitment. Only recently did China make one.

Originally Posted by !Zar!

Consumer spending vs saving? I see your point, and any further debate on this would ultimately result in a stalemate of valid points.

I can agree with this. Just wanted to add my biggest point is that's even with the Covid economy, current data/polls are still positive.

Originally Posted by !Zar!

Some to name are:

Resending protection to transgender people.

His "Muslim ban".

Repealing the Affordable Care Act.

Tax breaks which benefitted the wealthy, and in turn increases the disparity between minorities and the majority.

Supporting the slash of legal immigration.

The issue is a slippery slope as is though. The civil rights act is meant to protect you based on things you have absolutely no control over. To give those same protections to someone who made themselves that way legally opens up a lot of shit. Say if a white man truly felt they were a black man. He goes through a skin pigmentation change and identifies as a black man. Socially people would go what the fuck, but legally, wouldn't that fall into the same concept as a trans person? I know that's an extreme example, but I hope my point makes sense. I agree there should have been something else in place for specific trans gender anti-discrimination before just repealing the rule. That fucks them over in the worst medical setting of our time.


Tax breaks were for everyone, not just wealthy. Sure the numbers are bigger when you talk about more money, but relief is relief. Also, trickle down economics makes a big difference to the minority as well. If you relieve money to corporations, they can pass some savings to the consumer and/or reinvest in their employees (which I personally benefited in all three ways). Trickle down economics works both ways though. So when Biden talks about high taxes for the wealthy and large corporations, who do you think that hit gets passed onto? (Hint: it's us, the consumer)


I'm not a fan of the ban either, can't argue that one. It doesn't personally affect me, but I'd be super fucking mad if my family was separated from me because of where we come from. I think a better way to go about it is to go more hardcore with our customs screenings. From what I know, those fucks will get way up in your shit. I don't like our immigration system in general either.

I didn't like the ACA, especially the tax for not having it. So stupid. My position is the same as the trans repeal. A new program needed to be made before repealing. I am annoyed that I pay into state sponsored insurance (and a million other California fucking programs I will never benefit from), while I also pay for my private insurance. If we go universal, it needs to be based on your needs and your use for what you pay. It'll be a logistical nightmare, but can be done. I would not support a flat tax rate to pay for it.

Sent from my Note 20 Ultra using Tapatalk

[zombiewolf513]

That was a lot of time wasted arguing against news headline gaslighting.

Zar's self righteous, loud mouth ego still thinks wearing a napkin on his face makes him Jesus Christ. I'm sure with his Crocs on he could even walk on water!

[KA24DESOneThree]

The average American family has a net worth of $102,700. The median family, however, has a net worth of $52,700.

The top 1% of American families have a net worth of $10,374,030.10. The median family, however, has a net worth of $10,700,000. The cutoff income for a family to enter the top 1% is $531,020 per year. Assuming they scrimp and save 50% of that amount per year, they'll reach the median net worth in 40.3 years of work.

That $10,700,000 is 101 times the average net worth and 203 times the median net worth.

It would take more than 8.3x the median family's net worth to buy the average home in Sacramento. It would take less than 1/24th the median 1%'s net worth to buy the average home in Sacramento. The average prescription drug? 1/110th for median family, 1/22,291th for 1%.

A $10,000 hospital stay would reduce the median family's net worth by nearly 20%. It would reduce the median 1%'s net worth by 0.09%.

It makes sense to put these numbers into percentages and fractions because it shows how wide the gulf is.

[S14rebuild]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

The average American family has a net worth of $102,700. The median family, however, has a net worth of $52,700.

The top 1% of American families have a net worth of $10,374,030.10. The median family, however, has a net worth of $10,700,000. The cutoff income for a family to enter the top 1% is $531,020 per year. Assuming they scrimp and save 50% of that amount per year, they'll reach the median net worth in 40.3 years of work.

That $10,700,000 is 101 times the average net worth and 203 times the median net worth.

It would take more than 8.3x the median family's net worth to buy the average home in Sacramento. It would take less than 1/24th the median 1%'s net worth to buy the average home in Sacramento. The average prescription drug? 1/110th for median family, 1/22,291th for 1%.

A $10,000 hospital stay would reduce the median family's net worth by nearly 20%. It would reduce the median 1%'s net worth by 0.09%.

It makes sense to put these numbers into percentages and fractions because it shows how wide the gulf is.

So now poorer people are complaining about the rich? What eles is new

[zombiewolf513]

https://twitter.com/BlessUSA45/statu...20582385692673

[zombiewolf513]

https://twitter.com/MayorOfLA/status...49032664154113

"It's time to hunker down. It's time to cancel everything. Don't meet up with others outside your household. Don't host a gathering. Don't attend a gathering."

*flies out of state to be with friends and family*

That's called leadership.

[RalliartRsX]

Mr. Nismo, so I take some issue with your "China Virus" comment.
Why; although it is "factual" the virus itself originated in China, that was NOT where the epicenter of outbreak was at the time of the ban.

China already had a "handle" on the situation PRIOR to trump's ban. However, that is not what is key. China already closed it's borders down long before trump. And in particular ground zero in Wu Han (I think I got the spelling right lol)

What is key is Europe had an EXPLISION in cases (I see you Italy). No travelers from ANY European region were denied entry into the US. That in of of itself, is a complete failure to realize the failure mode and address it as such. Everything else is a series of propopgating errors from the trump admin. Having your son in law/vice pres, both of which are non science degree, non medical, non experience in ANYTHING medically related, run the task force is, well, dumb as fuck....

So not only was trump's ban very much based of a racist rhetoric, he also got it entirely wrong in terms of implementation (as noted above by Zar) and mitigation.

He completely FUCKed the response to the virus. The timeline is out there. You have already heard the phone calls. Etc.

There is no denying that...

[SupaDoopa]

And you're assuming that China is making all of their information public and transparent? What on fucking Earth are you smoking? You think any communist country openly spews the information of their people to world leading competitors? No. They don't. This is how they revamp manufacturing so their internal loss as a country stops.

[zombiewolf513]

These people see racism in the bottom a toilet bowl

[!Zar!]

Originally Posted by SupaDoopa

And you're assuming that China is making all of their information public and transparent? What on fucking Earth are you smoking? You think any communist country openly spews the information of their people to world leading competitors? No. They don't. This is how they revamp manufacturing so their internal loss as a country stops.

And Italy ?

[RalliartRsX]

Errrrr, SUpa the knowledge was made public earlier this year....

No one is assuming here......

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/hubei-timeline
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-...-ecdc-response
Of note:

On 23 January 2020, Wuhan City was locked down ? with all travel in and out of Wuhan prohibited ? and movement inside the city was restricted [8].

The city was on lockdown before this. The US admin had been well aware of this

On 22 February 2020, and over the following days, the Italian authorities reported clusters of cases in several regions (Lombardy, Piedmont, Veneto etc). During the following week, several European countries reported cases of COVID-19 in travellers from the affected areas in Italy, as well as cases without epidemiological links to Italy, China or other countries with ongoing transmission [12].

Cases reported in Europe prior to this cluster actually

So not sure what you are arguing here. All this information is available after 2 secs of searching........

The US has KEY tabs on China and was aware of ALL this well before Jan 23rd.

However, trump does NOT read his briefings or wants them read to him...The fucking president refusing to read, much less listen to his briefings, which had all the classified information in regards to the chain of events........

So again, tell me, where am I "assuming"??

Actually the timeline has been public for well over 7 months. If you cared instead of making your "own assumptions" maybe you would have realized this??

[SupaDoopa]

Italy isn't run by the communist party, sweetheart. They're actually proclaiming they are democratic. Unless you're simply confused how to check a nations website and asking me what the answer to that questionw as.



Earlier this year is not right now. This does not help us on current cases in compared to the rest of the world. So what you've essentially just done is disprove yourself by using data from a reliable source that ended in fucking April.

Real riveting stuff. You really showed me.

[RalliartRsX]

.........Ok Supa. Ok.

You need to go put your dick in some pussy and cool yourself off.

You said I made assumptions, I showed you the timelne, And now?? You are off the mark by talking about the Italian government.......which has no bearing on the fact that Italy was an epicenter and trump did nothing to ban travel from the... you guessed it

EPICENTER!

Done. Go get your dick wet and calm the fuck down....

[SupaDoopa]

You showed me an irrelevant timeline. Don't get pissed off because your stupid ass doesn't actually read half of the shit you send. You foam at the mouth to try to disprove people but the shit makes no sense. It's like me saying having a two-person picnic right now is more dangerous than snakes because some snakes are venomous. While you're right in one aspect, the two do not really corollate at all.

You can go back to the drawing board to paint pretty pictures [not to really do anything productive because we've been going on pretty long with this shit and you have still failed to provide anything relevant and revolutionary to any discussion other than shit that happened like... forever ago].

The other response wasn't to you, dipshit. It was to the other fucking idiot who was trying to insinuate because Italy USED to be communist, they SOMEHOW must be fucking with their numbers because China is STILL floating in communist waters. Italy is in the EU. They don't have the ability to muddy their results. This is why they're pretty accurate. Independent EU investigators are releasing this information.

Again, do some fucking leg work before you smash your keyboards covered in dry semen and cheetoh dust.

[RalliartRsX]

How is the timelibe irrelevant?

[SupaDoopa]

The 'timelibe' is irreverent because we're currently in December. China is reporting near-zero cases today in December where as every other country surrounding them has many, many, MANY more cases. Not even comparable. Do I really need to delve into how economics and business analysis comes into play when trying to globally prove that you're over a pandemic and can start shipping product and opening businesses again? So, see how I'm talking about today? Your 'timelibe' ends in April. I've attached a calendar to show you have many days we're removed from your informational cut off period. I made sure it was cute and fun so someone with your minimal mental capacity would still be able to understand how it works.

[RalliartRsX]

Who is talking about now? My entire discussion is around how this all began in dec 2019 to jan 2020

..........

Are you sure you did a dissertation? You can't even follow basic discussion.....

[RalliartRsX]

Why; although it is "factual" the virus itself originated in China, that was NOT where the epicenter of outbreak was at the time of the ban.

China already had a "handle" on the situation PRIOR to trump's ban. However, that is not what is key. China already closed it's borders down long before trump. And in particular ground zero in Wu Han (I think I got the spelling right lol)

We are talking about trump's ban in Jan 2020.

I have no clue where you are in your discussion, but it sure does not relate to whatever everyone else above id talking about

THIS is how I know you are incapable of reading.......and the red anger mist is 100% to blame

Sit back, breath and fucking read and chill

As I told you in the other thread; go get laid. Go take a walk, And just calm the fuck down.

[SupaDoopa]

If you're fixated on how it began, then you're not really watching on how where it's gone and where it'll continue to go and it's relevance to everything.

HIV originated in the Congo.
SARS originated in China.
Measles originated in Fiji.

Why are you worried about where they started rather than what is going on now? See now how what you're spewing from your virgin lips is irrelevant from the rest of the conversation going on here?

[RalliartRsX]

:sigh:

Ok dude. We are bound to repeat the same mistake if you do not recognize the past.

Hey look, I blew up my SR20 because I got a shit tune from tuner b.

What do you do?? You sure as hell recognize your mistake and make sure as hell to NOT make the same mistake again by going back to tuner b

THAT is the crux of this discussion. The past is VERY relevant to the discussion as because of trumps ineptitude, this thread is kicking, alive and we are going into ANOTHER lockdown..........


trump and his shitty admin is why we are where we are today. Vaccine or not.......

Just like everyone else who is calling it the "CHina Virus" is indeed FIXATING on where it began

Oh the irony. But here we are....

[mr.nismo.]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Mr. Nismo, so I take some issue with your "China Virus" comment.
Why; although it is "factual" the virus itself originated in China, that was NOT where the epicenter of outbreak was at the time of the ban.

China already had a "handle" on the situation PRIOR to trump's ban. However, that is not what is key. China already closed it's borders down long before trump. And in particular ground zero in Wu Han (I think I got the spelling right lol)

What is key is Europe had an EXPLISION in cases (I see you Italy). No travelers from ANY European region were denied entry into the US. That in of of itself, is a complete failure to realize the failure mode and address it as such. Everything else is a series of propopgating errors from the trump admin. Having your son in law/vice pres, both of which are non science degree, non medical, non experience in ANYTHING medically related, run the task force is, well, dumb as fuck....

So not only was trump's ban very much based of a racist rhetoric, he also got it entirely wrong in terms of implementation (as noted above by Zar) and mitigation.

He completely FUCKed the response to the virus. The timeline is out there. You have already heard the phone calls. Etc.

There is no denying that...

If you want to say that travel from Italy (or anywhere that had outbreaks) should have been banned as well, sure. But my comment was a reply to Trump being called a xenophobe for saying China virus. That's why I gave the China turbo example. His response of how he closed down is a separate issue. To your comment, saying that it's racially driven he banned travel from China only is reaching. Also, he did have Dr Birks (hope I'm spelling that right) and Dr Fauci. You can't just have medical professionals giving opinions, the economy is something you have to take into consideration.

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[RalliartRsX]

Although I agree the economy would have decimated regardless

The question is; for how long. We are into month 8 or 9 now. I would have gladly taken a shutdown for 2-3 months and gradually opening up in April to May with proper precautions in place as opposed to entering a second phase of shutdown. We are going to be well into 1.5 years before ANYTHING begins to show any signs of reopening

Damage is already done. We had monkeys manning the ship and well, here we are.....

And to your claim on Fauci and the experts recommended to trump to curtail travel from Europe, here, I will just let you read it for yourself and ask "why did trump single out only China"

https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/...ee-with-trumps

The president’s comments contradict what both he and Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, have said in the past. During the April 13 coronavirus task force press briefing, Trump was asked if he and Fauci were “on the same page.” He responded: “Yeah, we have been from the beginning.” At the same press briefing, Fauci discussed how responsive Trump was to the recommendations made by the task force. After discussing the recommendations they made regarding mitigation, Fauci mentioned: “The travel [restriction] was another recommendation, when we went in and said, ‘We probably should be doing that.’ And the answer was ‘yes.’ And then another time was, ‘We should do it with Europe,’ and the answer was ‘yes.’ And the next time, ‘We should do it with the U.K.,’ and the answer was ‘yes.’”

China was not the only recommendation by the experts, but just one of the restrictions as recommended initially.

That's my point....

[SupaDoopa]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Although I agree the economy would have decimated regardless

The question is; for how long. We are into month 8 or 9 now. I would have gladly taken a shutdown for 2-3 months and gradually opening up in April to May with proper precautions in place as opposed to entering a second phase of shutdown. We are going to be well into 1.5 years before ANYTHING begins to show any signs of reopening

Damage is already done. We had monkeys manning the ship and well, here we are.....

And to your claim on Fauci and the experts recommended to trump to curtail travel from Europe, here, I will just let you read it for yourself and ask "why did trump single out only China"

https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/...ee-with-trumps



China was not the only recommendation by the experts, but just one of the restrictions as recommended initially.

That's my point....

You would have taken a 2-3 shut down? What would you do for food? For supplies? For anything? People are still going to work and still interacting. Unfortunately the weak and sick will die as per every pandemic that's ever happened the young and strong will survive until the next one. The magic juice is out now so you can self-medicate in your bathroom with your lighter and tourniquet right before you fill yourself with smack.

[RalliartRsX]

Errrr, Amazon? PeaPod delivery by Giant?? Whole foods?? Or any produce delivery service that was operating at full capacity??
What rock have you been living in?? Produce and supply chain was figured out with the quickness. Everything else is just noise.


My grocery store was wide open during the pandemic as they installed new proper COVID 19 protocols.......we are 9 months in without an issue. I can easily get ANY supplies via amazon (we stocked up on masks as we saw the writing on the wall and I have boxes of latex gloves as I use them to work on the vehicles)

The above just highlights how inept the trump admin was at addressing this. If my local grocery store could figure it out, I expect the Fed Government to do the same....

[SupaDoopa]

Okay. So how are those people going to work? Fuel their cars? How many of those people are working together in the same facility? How many people touched the product that left the manufacturers facility and then got transported to it's next stop? How many different people are packaging and picking your food and goods? How many people does the driver interact with when delivering it? Maybe your small brain can't really process the fact that just because one person is bringing your shit that it wasn't touched a thousand times over. Now imagine if even ONE of those people got sick. Think of the amount of people that spreads to. Start the clock over again. So what are you accomplishing really with your little shut down? Shit. That's what.

Yes, you don't have AS MANY hands in the pot but fucking christ, look how many people handle your orders. Also, you must live under the rock because my grocery stores are fucking packed. Doesn't matter what you go get, it's nearly gone. People are bunkering down for another shut down that's about to happen in addition to Christmas. Best of luck if you think the small businesses that need this season to even survive will close without a fight.

[RalliartRsX]

Should have picked my words


A much more controlled shutdown.
And I have have harped on this before. The government works for the people. All those issues of a full shutdown? Adopt the European model

The government paid people directly through companies up 85% of thier salary. The government propped up businesses. And the government and everyone said wear mask and social distance

Because of becuz of idiots not being able to differentiate social help from the government from authoritarian socialism here we are

And because #marights here we are. The president literally made fun on Biden for wearing the largest mask 3 days before he contracted it himself

Need I say more....

[SupaDoopa]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Should have picked my words


A much more controlled shutdown.
And I have have harped on this before. The government works for the people. All those issues of a full shutdown? Adopt the European model

The government paid people directly through companies up 85% of thier salary. The government propped up businesses. And the government and everyone said wear mask and social distance

Because of becuz of idiots not being able to differentiate social help from the government from authoritarian socialism here we are

And because #marights here we are. The president literally made fun on Biden for wearing the largest mask 3 days before he contracted it himself

Need I say more....

So the government is going to pay people to sit on their ass like they did like last time for months and months? Then small businesses will lose employees again because they'd make more to sit at home and shovel chips in their gullets while playing video games instead of bringing you your ass paper and canned soda.

All your ideas on paper are great. The logistics and the fallout that will occur if any of those came into play would destroy the economy, small business and whatever bit of peace and sanity are left. You're putting a very, very, very, very, very, very small bandaid on something that is massive. It has nothing to stick to and will fix the problem for about .00000000545 seconds.

[mr.nismo.]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Although I agree the economy would have decimated regardless

The question is; for how long. We are into month 8 or 9 now. I would have gladly taken a shutdown for 2-3 months and gradually opening up in April to May with proper precautions in place as opposed to entering a second phase of shutdown. We are going to be well into 1.5 years before ANYTHING begins to show any signs of reopening

Damage is already done. We had monkeys manning the ship and well, here we are.....

And to your claim on Fauci and the experts recommended to trump to curtail travel from Europe, here, I will just let you read it for yourself and ask "why did trump single out only China"

https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/...ee-with-trumps

China was not the only recommendation by the experts, but just one of the restrictions as recommended initially.

That's my point....

The travel ban for China was on Jan 31. Italy had 2 cases at that time. He didn't racially single out China. The data is what he made his decision on. March is when bans were enforced for countries in the EU where data showed outbreaks. The conference you linked about Europe was April 13, and per your quote, it sounded like they were definitely on the same page. It also sounds like that "why did he only single out China" question was pretty misguiding, as usual.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...l-coronavirus/

It's literally on whitehouse site. When data showed high transmission, travel bans happened.
I'm failing to see where he racially singled out China, or that it was xenophobic to travel ban China on the 31st specifically. Or to call it the China virus, because factually it is from China. Just like how plenty of forum members make fun of other members who buy cheap China turbos and then are surprised about what happens. Hence why I used it as an example, and there were never any issues with that. Now however, everything is immediately absorbed through a racial and sensitivity screen, and is usually deemed racist.


To your shutdown, fuck that shit. I honestly (I do not want shit in regards to pitty, everyone has their problems. You want honesty, this is it.) had thoughts of suicide during end of March through April. Fuck. That. I rationalized it because we don't know enough about it and we need to learn more about it. Now? With what we know? Nooooope. I am a FIRM believer in individual risk assessment. I will not ever tell you what to do, but you can also kindly fuck off in trying to force me to do what y o u feel like we should do. Your situation may be cool for you to stay home for 3 months straight, but not everyone is in your situation. Keep the vulnerable protected, stay home if you're that worried about it, and let everyone else do their thing. It will work it's way though. It's shitty. But shut down is not the approach. WHO already said it's not. JHU had put out a paper in saying overall deaths have not increased, just numbers shifted from other categories into Covid. It got removed because it goes against the MSM narrative of locking up forever. Then, the retraction was reversed and has already been fact checked as true.

https://web.archive.org/web/20201126...ue-to-covid-19

Individual. Risk. Assessment.

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Should have picked my words


A much more controlled shutdown.
And I have have harped on this before. The government works for the people. All those issues of a full shutdown? Adopt the European model

The government paid people directly through companies up 85% of thier salary. The government propped up businesses. And the government and everyone said wear mask and social distance

Because of becuz of idiots not being able to differentiate social help from the government from authoritarian socialism here we are

And because #marights here we are. The president literally made fun on Biden for wearing the largest mask 3 days before he contracted it himself

Need I say more....

And look where the EU is at? They recently passed the US in cases per capita. Deaths per capita are greater, but hospitals here have a monetary incentive to declare a covid death (back to the JHU article about numbers shifting categories). No lockdown has worked (in every iteration of it) in a country with a large population. You're not going to "control" it. You can "slow it" by restricting movement, but the second you let up, it comes back. So you want to do that merry go round until we vaccinate or naturally get into herd immunity? That's not economically doable. It just isn't...

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[zombiewolf513]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Errrr, Amazon? I can easily get ANY supplies via amazon

sweet wealth transfer you got there, serf

You've got the facts so fucked up its not even funny.