vq swaps any easier now a days?

[spent27]

http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/39090...es-2100-a.html

VHR for 2100$... no one wants to bite even though its the cheapest on the web AND comes with the harness... argh...

[bardabe]

Originally Posted by simmode1

So whats up with aftermarket tuning options for the Rev-up versus the regular DE? I mean, how does having VTC on both the intake and exhaust effect tuning options? I've never understood this.

I do know that the DE supposedly is better at low end torque and the Rev-up is better at peak HP. But aftermarket-wise, is there anything that lets the Rev-up stand superior to the DE?

that is a mis conception, the new gen Nissan VQ engines don't have VTC (which was basically an on off solenoid) newer VQ's have what we call "Cam Phasing" which is a Stepper motor that allows the cam to advance and retard according to the ECU control. having control of both intake and exhaust cam you can tune the engine to have very good low RPM response and torque, while maintaining high RPM Power. by having Cam phasing on both intake and exhaust it allows you to better control valve over lap and make more power at high RPM, but you can still pull all the timing you need to have good low RPM power.

the reason the Rev up had less Low RPM power from factory was that the middle plenum. (bottom half of the top plenum) had shorter, bigger runners. but by adding a ported 03/04 Mid section with a plenum spacer you get the best of all worlds.

long runners, good volume plenum, and a shit load of high rpm overlap.

[bardabe]

Originally Posted by spent27

http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/39090...es-2100-a.html

VHR for 2100$... no one wants to bite even though its the cheapest on the web AND comes with the harness... argh...

do you have the VVEL Harness and Control unit? VVEL is controlled independent from the ECU and BCM. that is probably why.

[spent27]

The VVEL control unit plugs directly into the engine harness from what I can tell. The VVEL runs like 100$ from junkyards...

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by andrew600

i am on topic? this is the base for the whole topic.
and where i live you can swap an engine over to a vehicle as long as they both have the same manufacture.

my ls1 240 was legal. and that motor came in a lot of suv and trucks.

and i didnt say it was cheaper. although now that you mention it. there are more vehicles that a vq40 comes in than a vq35. so hahah yeah you kinda walked into that door. so yes it is cheaper.

i dont know why youre so up at arms about vq40?
vq40 with harness ecu and most accessories goes for right around 2k shipped
or 1k if you know someone like me.

The basis for the topic is easier, which also equates with cheaper. As far more vehicles? Nissan put the 35 in damn near everything and I can pretty much hazard saying there are more 35's in existence than 40's. I did not walk in any door. I did my research.

LS1's are legal because they came in Corvettes and Camaro's. You really need to look up your EPA and Federal laws before you start arguing this stuff. I have done the homework and this has been discussed. Maybe if you searched you would learn that.

As far as engine swaps go, its any Engine produced and sold in the United States same year or newer as long as it was in the configuration for your car, AKA RWD and as long as you have all Emissions equipment hooked up.
Now there are a few states that look the other way but most are doing emission tests and follow federal law if not CARB rules.

Plus if all that stuff is so legal in your state why bother in the first place. Go back to running the engine that was supposed to be in the car a SR.

Your argument through this whole thing has been based on your own centric view point without taking other states and federal law into consideration. That is a failure on the information side on your part and does the thread a disservice.

Its not so much up in arms about it. It's truck engine which falls under different smog laws and would not be legal in a lot of states as well is technically not legal for swap Federally. Oh did I forget to tell that even though some states have stronger laws than Federal, Federal still holds weight and can get you in trouble.

The only way to make the VQ40 a legal swap in the U.S. is do exactly what Bardabe said.




The only problem I have here is what I stated about you. should I high light it in bold again for you?

Your argument through this whole thing has been based on your own centric view point without taking other states and federal law into consideration. That is a failure on the information side on your part and does the thread a disservice.


There is nothing more that need be said on the subject.

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by bardabe

that is a mis conception, the new gen Nissan VQ engines don't have VTC (which was basically an on off solenoid) newer VQ's have what we call "Cam Phasing" which is a Stepper motor that allows the cam to advance and retard according to the ECU control. having control of both intake and exhaust cam you can tune the engine to have very good low RPM response and torque, while maintaining high RPM Power. by having Cam phasing on both intake and exhaust it allows you to better control valve over lap and make more power at high RPM, but you can still pull all the timing you need to have good low RPM power.

the reason the Rev up had less Low RPM power from factory was that the middle plenum. (bottom half of the top plenum) had shorter, bigger runners. but by adding a ported 03/04 Mid section with a plenum spacer you get the best of all worlds.

long runners, good volume plenum, and a shit load of high rpm overlap.

Ahhh great info! Exactly what I wanted to know! So Rev-up it is! Gonna start researching whats possible with N/A bolt-ons and cam upgrades now...

[spent27]

If you want NA power, VQs aren't the way to go IMO. I love mine, don't get me wrong, but you can't drop a cam in like you could an LS1 and get 50rwhp+ easy. Expect to put out big money if you want 300+whp. Even getting to 300whp doesn't appear to be possible with just bolt ons... I'm hoping for a big cam, high comp engine build one day and I would be ecstatic to get 320+ whp without sacrificing lowend torque. If you want nissan NA power, I would really look into VK56. No replacement for displacement

[simmode1]

For realz? So is this not realistic? Not to be a smartass, but what's your opinion?

300whp doesn't see that far off...

[spent27]

300 whp with full bolt ons+cams? - MY350Z.COM Forums

Something ain't right about that dyno... From everything i've read, basic boltons you're looking 260whp... 280+ if you're lucky... Dyno numbers seem to be way over inflated these days. Remember, DEs make ~290 FLYWHEEL stock, so to think that guy got 50rwph out of just int/exh ? err? I dunno, hard to say. That thread I posted though provides some good insight on 300rwhp on a 350z... as you will see, it ain't easy

[spent27]

BTW, mine is stock + mail order tune, intake, exh and I am more than happy with how the car pulls... It really is quite impressive. I soley autocross the car at this point and I couldn't be happier. Just need bigger tires

[bardabe]

Originally Posted by spent27

If you want NA power, VQs aren't the way to go IMO. I love mine, don't get me wrong, but you can't drop a cam in like you could an LS1 and get 50rwhp+ easy. Expect to put out big money if you want 300+whp. Even getting to 300whp doesn't appear to be possible with just bolt ons... I'm hoping for a big cam, high comp engine build one day and I would be ecstatic to get 320+ whp without sacrificing lowend torque. If you want nissan NA power, I would really look into VK56. No replacement for displacement

Lies,

I Did 293RWHP with Intake exhaust and a tune. Member on the forum can vouch as he drove the car out of the dyno with me that day. Months after i added Long Tube Headers, Custom X pipe, Custom Long Tube Intakes, Aluminum Flywheel, Lightweight Clutch, and Light Wheels, that Yielded me 331RWHP. this was on a 2007 VQ35HR. only problem encountered was that the Transmision did not like to spin to 8K RPM.

[spent27]

Ok, to clarify, I was specifically talking about DEs. Nevertheless, big N/A numbers and VQs do not go togethor. And I do think your numbers are probably inflated too . 300 is definitely much more plausible on an HR though.

Just read through dyno/na builds on my350z to get some insight on what it takes. At the end of the day, I'm not one to worry about numbers all that much, my point I was trying to get across, really, is that VQs arnt potent NA engines unless you're spending the big bucks. Case and point, GTM sells there 400HP NA VQ race engine for $35,000 ... If it were easy, it wouldn't cost 35gs

[spent27]

http://www.gtmotorsports.com/product...cat=536&page=1

Granted, that engine probably lives at 8500rpm... 400 flywheel = @ 15% loss -> 340rwhp.

[irax]

Originally Posted by spent27

http://www.gtmotorsports.com/product...cat=536&page=1

Granted, that engine probably lives at 8500rpm... 400 flywheel = @ 15% loss -> 340rwhp.

link is broken

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by spent27

Ok, to clarify, I was specifically talking about DEs. Nevertheless, big N/A numbers and VQs do not go togethor. And I do think your numbers are probably inflated too . 300 is definitely much more plausible on an HR though.

Just read through dyno/na builds on my350z to get some insight on what it takes.

Numerically speaking, only about 6hp separate Rev-ups from HR's. I don't see why a DE or Rev-up would have much probably reaching 300hp with well thought out (but not necessarily groundbreaking) mods in a S-Chassis. I had always guessed/assumed that the Z33's greater weight and the fact that most of their owners wanna keep their emissions equipment intact is what makes putting down 300whp harder for them. But I dunno. I'm no expert. But I do know I've seen mild N/A JDM Z33's claiming to make these kind of numbers with mods similar to what we're discussing.

I appreciate you guys furthering development & hacking away at the CARB-legal/emissions compliancy issues, but I really don't give a damn about that stuff. I can always find a hook-up guy. I just want a relatively simple & lightwieght V6 with stout 6spd tranny that gives me a hassle free low 300ish hp.

[bardabe]

Originally Posted by spent27

Ok, to clarify, I was specifically talking about DEs. Nevertheless, big N/A numbers and VQs do not go togethor. And I do think your numbers are probably inflated too . 300 is definitely much more plausible on an HR though.

Just read through dyno/na builds on my350z to get some insight on what it takes. At the end of the day, I'm not one to worry about numbers all that much, my point I was trying to get across, really, is that VQs arnt potent NA engines unless you're spending the big bucks. Case and point, GTM sells there 400HP NA VQ race engine for $35,000 ... If it were easy, it wouldn't cost 35gs

There is a big reason why i don't post on my350Z.com anymore. those guys are a bunch of fuckin tool bags, morons, and brown nosers that's really all that forum has to offer. Nobody with a decent Automotive IQ has a decent build thread. they just buy high dollar parts bolt them on and expect to make power. which is not how the VQ engine responds to mods, the engine has tons of potential to make power locked in the ECU. and little components that noone looks at. tell me why SGmotorsport in Canada made 340whp on a Stock Block and Head DE back in canada. those numbers are not inflated, they took the same approach I did, Real R&D and applied it to the engine, yet their stuff isn't selling on the forum because "reputable forum members" don't have it on their cars.

if you want to see real VQ builds and real parts for the VQ35. My350Z.com is the wrong place to look.


Ninja Edit:

Simone, the only Emisions Equipment the VQ35DE has is an Evap line and solenoid. nothing else. only hard thing about carb the engine is all the fuckin Z33 sensors that they have in the tank, and the distance from the back 2 cylinders to the cat. the VQ is extremly anal about that when it comes to emissions readings.

[upsdude]

damn now you've piqued my curiosity-so where would one go to find some good builds for the vq?

[mrflip69]

Originally Posted by bardabe

Simone, the only Emisions Equipment the VQ35DE has is an Evap line and solenoid. nothing else. only hard thing about carb the engine is all the fuckin Z33 sensors that they have in the tank, and the distance from the back 2 cylinders to the cat. the VQ is extremly anal about that when it comes to emissions readings.

What about the stock headers? Unless you're lucky enough to find a ref who'll let that slide. Mod the stockers and cover em up? lol

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by bardabe

tell me why SGmotorsport in Canada made 340whp on a Stock Block and Head DE back in canada. those numbers are not inflated, they took the same approach I did, Real R&D and applied it to the engine, yet their stuff isn't selling on the forum because "reputable forum members" don't have it on their cars.

Simone? Lol

And yes, I want this sound to come from my S13.


Would love to see their 340hp dyno run. Got links?

OMG... 30hp gain?!

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by rb25crazy

also, it's like why do ppl get old beater 240z and modify them and throw in all these things into it, it's just mainly cuz they like it, not so much that it is better then the newer cars.

the s30 is an older car. you can install a fucking jet engine inside a pre-emissions vehicle and get away with murder. that is the reason why the 240Z is a (reasonably) valuable car. still, if I owned a s30 i wouldnt be cought dead installing a shitty VQ35 into it... maybe a VQ37... but honestly, RB26 / 2JZGTE is really the only solution for that type of car if you ask me. but good lord, anyone who tackles that car sure has their work cut out for them. the cars are built like tin-cans and the chassis and rear end need serious reinforcement if you plan on it being durable for a high HP motor setup. so you add the weight, custom reinforcement and expensive suspension parts, infinite amounts of time and money and you still up with a mediocre performer. love the s30, but dont believe it can transform into some kind of ultimate driving machine. just a nice nostalgic drivers car that is sure to put a smile on the drivers face.

Originally Posted by spent27

If you want NA power, VQs aren't the way to go IMO.

i've never really been impressed with what i've heard from my customers over the years with the VQ35 motors. they're not bad but theyre nothing special, especially not for forced induction. in NA form it will take a lot of work to make them special. from the little time i've spent putting around with my friend's modified g37c, the car overall feels like a better car.. motor included. again, thats not to say that the 3.5L cars are bad.

Originally Posted by bardabe

There is a big reason why i don't post on my350Z.com anymore. those guys are a bunch of fuckin tool bags, morons, and brown nosers that's really all that forum has to offer.

there are a lot of morons everywhere you go, people that visit this forum surely think im a retard. they think dave is a retard. everyone is a moron.

i dont really like the my350z / g35driver forums, but theyre decent. much better than the useless g37 forums, which are still better than nico, which is still better than stepping foot on clublexus. clublexus is like bottom of the barrel.

wait, i take that back, the cube & scion forums are bottom of the barrel.

[97240TB]

Well I'm late to this party, Anyway... To start you guys have to remember those SG Long tubes were designed specifically to fit under 350z's, I've talked with their development guys and I have been told They would not fit properly on a VQ converted 240. That aside These engines have huge potential, Even with minimal external engine modification. I'm making 293HP with custom intake boxes and a custom exhaust on a tune. (Remember I have a HR engine.) Most of the work done on my car is all one off and custom made.

There are no crossmember modifications though we did custom work on the steering rack and steering column, My headers are stock HR and were not modified. Yes my engine sits approximately one inch above the hood line but this is solved with a Dmax FRP hood with quarter inch risers at the hood arms.

I spent more then most because again, my work was all custom one off and the engine/transmission I purchased had only 700 and 900 miles on them. I also used a STACK ST8130M HUD, So cost on my swap wasn't limited.

As far as the Emissions are concerned I feel confident if I put stock cats on my car with a proper street exhaust (I run open exhaust with a buddy club spec II.) This car would pass any emissions tests.

Not alot of technical info but I feel that's been covered. This car has been running for over a year with little to no issues, Runs just fine and the gas mileage isn't too shabby either. haha

[GripTerror]

man is zilvia always full of little children fighting each other shit...

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

in NA form it will take a lot of work to make them special.

I guess that's the issue for alot of ppl. Ppl have different meanings of 'special'. For me, I'm not looking for this motor to put out LSx type performance numbers.

My goals are modest. IMO, 100hp for every 1000lbs of weight is enough for me to feel quick and balanced. Any more available power is just icing on the cake. So THE VQ35 hits all my checkmarks for a motor that I'd want in my S-Chassis.

[andrew600]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

The basis for the topic is easier, which also equates with cheaper. As far more vehicles? Nissan put the 35 in damn near everything and I can pretty much hazard saying there are more 35's in existence than 40's. I did not walk in any door. I did my research.

LS1's are legal because they came in Corvettes and Camaro's. You really need to look up your EPA and Federal laws before you start arguing this stuff. I have done the homework and this has been discussed. Maybe if you searched you would learn that.

As far as engine swaps go, its any Engine produced and sold in the United States same year or newer as long as it was in the configuration for your car, AKA RWD and as long as you have all Emissions equipment hooked up.
Now there are a few states that look the other way but most are doing emission tests and follow federal law if not CARB rules.

Plus if all that stuff is so legal in your state why bother in the first place. Go back to running the engine that was supposed to be in the car a SR.

Your argument through this whole thing has been based on your own centric view point without taking other states and federal law into consideration. That is a failure on the information side on your part and does the thread a disservice.

Its not so much up in arms about it. It's truck engine which falls under different smog laws and would not be legal in a lot of states as well is technically not legal for swap Federally. Oh did I forget to tell that even though some states have stronger laws than Federal, Federal still holds weight and can get you in trouble.

The only way to make the VQ40 a legal swap in the U.S. is do exactly what Bardabe said.




The only problem I have here is what I stated about you. should I high light it in bold again for you?

Your argument through this whole thing has been based on your own centric view point without taking other states and federal law into consideration. That is a failure on the information side on your part and does the thread a disservice.


There is nothing more that need be said on the subject.

there is a lot more that needs to be said on the subject. thats why its a thread.

lsx is a based motor that is in many cars trucks and suvs. the vq motors are also in many cars trucks and suvs. ive had a legal lsx motor that came out of an suv in my car.its not difficult.
you have the info that you have and thats fine. but the fact is, that its no more difficult to do a vq40 than a 35. FACT. plain and simple. if you think its harder then fine. but i have personal experience with this with no issues at all. im saying this for the area i live. it may be different where you live.

[Highway Riding]

I recently just sold my 04.5 350Z with Kinetix intake manifold - JWT poop charger and Tanabe exhaust and i made 262 on a DD. For me to get up to 300 would cost as much as my SR S14 motor alone.... Not worth it IMHO...

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by simmode1

I guess that's the issue for alot of ppl. Ppl have different meanings of 'special'. For me, I'm not looking for this motor to put out LSx type performance numbers.

My goals are modest. IMO, 100hp for every 1000lbs of weight is enough for me to feel quick and balanced. Any more available power is just icing on the cake. So THE VQ35 hits all my checkmarks for a motor that I'd want in my S-Chassis.

i hear ya

its just funny to see people put all this money & work and end up with a busted up old ass car. at least when you pull up with a newer Z, you will probably get laid. 240's dont really do that, generally speaking. you just end up having a bunch of dudes around your car

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by andrew600

there is a lot more that needs to be said on the subject. thats why its a thread.

lsx is a based motor that is in many cars trucks and suvs. the vq motors are also in many cars trucks and suvs. ive had a legal lsx motor that came out of an suv in my car.its not difficult.
you have the info that you have and thats fine. but the fact is, that its no more difficult to do a vq40 than a 35. FACT. plain and simple. if you think its harder then fine. but i have personal experience with this with no issues at all. im saying this for the area i live. it may be different where you live.

wow you just don't get it. You even stated in your last sentence what I pointed out. The point of this thread is easy, inexpensive, you keep on trying to abstract the points I was making. The VQ40 is in trucks and SUV's ONLY!. That makes it technically not legal on a Federal and CARB basis. My point is not about difficulty its about legality and costs. PERIOD!

The only other point is you are looking at this whole thing from your particular area of the country only. Most of the people are not in your area. All I am trying to point out to you is you need to open your eyes . There is a big world out there and its not centered around where you live.

Now please stop this, you are getting into semantics for the sake of arguing to back up your opinion without facts that are pertinent. LEGALITY in the U.S. and CARB. for one particular engine. I never made my points based on difficulty I made them on legality and costs.
Which you keep on trying to ignore, just for the sake of having your say.

Oh and you are mucking up this thread with your useless comebacks that make no points. Legality, costs and CARB issues are pertinent to the thread. A truck engine is not.

[andrew600]

i havent said any sort of comeback at all. nor have i called you out in a manor that you so childishly did me. nor have i said the world revolves around where i live. i simply said that the vq40 is just as legally easy to do as the 35. because its the truth. im done trying to have a discussion with someone that only wants to piss and moan like a child.

[BOROSUN]

i dont think its legal on any state but, dont quote me on that.

[Prime]

Originally Posted by andrew600

i simply said that the vq40 is just as legally easy to do as the 35. because its the truth.

"If the engine is not identical to the original then it is not a replacement part, instead it is considered an engine “change”. Engine changes entail modifications that must meet certain requirements to be legal. Engine changes are legal as long as the following requirements are met to ensure that the change does not increase pollution from the vehicle:

_The engine must be the same year as (or newer than) the vehicle.
_The engine must be from the same type of vehicle (passenger car, light-duty truck, heavy-duty truck, etc.) based on gross vehicle weight.
_If the vehicle is a California-certified vehicle then the engine must also be a California-certified engine.
_All emissions control equipment from the “donor” vehicle must be installed in the vehicle receiving replacement parts to ensure it is identical to the one that was certified to meet federal standards for the model year of the vehicle."
EPA.gov

Federally, it's illegal. Which means in ALL states. Even if your individual state does not regulate it, it's still not legal. As an example, I can "legally" get a medical marijuana card for personal use in California. And at any time I could be arrested for violating FEDERAL law, since it's not decriminalized Federally.

You're wrong. Even if versions of the LS1 came in trucks, if THAT MOTOR came from a truck, it's illegal. From a Corvette or Camaro, it's not. The law is stupid, but that doesn't make a damn difference.

If you can't make sense out of that, then I don't know what to say to you.