Redtop SR20 Haltech platinum sport1000 no start

[misfitsfreak81]

yes i have the timing set to 15 degrees in the haltech and thats what its firing at via timing light.

so yesterday i finally got it to run on three cylinders this time. i called eric at haltech and he talked with me for 20 min or so to help me tweek the map that he built and also trouble shoot anything else i had questions about. he was super helpfull and seemed to really know his shit. i will try to pull a datalog of it today. i will need email addresses to send it to people on here. thanks again to everybody whos helped with this.

mike

[midnight_rex]

its doesnt sound like a software problem anymore. its sounds more like a electrical component failing somehow. hope you get it fixed mike. how did u manage to get it running on 3 cylinders?

[misfitsfreak81]

i got it to run on three cylinders simply by switching plugs. doing a clearflood start and bam it would run if held at 1500-2000 rpm.
its still not firing on #3 though, im gonna try throwing the #1 coilpack on there to see if that makes any difference. right now the battery is on the charger cause shits drained from just cranking the motor over and over. back in a bit

[midnight_rex]

it should still idle on 3 cylinders. ive had my sr run on 3 cyl before and never had a problem starting up or idling, but idled like shit lol.

[misfitsfreak81]

yah i know it should idle on three cylinders. pm me your email and ill send you a copy of the map that im trying to start it on along with a mod list. ive gotta believe that theres just too much fuel still. plus im running deatschwerks 810cc injectors and have been told that they suck for idle? not sure, they are brand new and shouldnt suck for the price that they are

[midnight_rex]

i sent you a pm already. im running 740cc injectors on my setup. i think tonight im gonna try and start the car with the basemap steve made for me. hopefully it will fire right up on the first try :/ im so nervous about trying to start it.

[stricnynel0s]

if its your first start, make sure you do a dry start to pre oil engine. if you lived close to me i would give you a hand

[midnight_rex]

just an update on my car tonight...

i loaded up steveshadows base map and i had a no go. the fuel pump sounds like it never wants to shut off when i turn the ignition to on. when i try to turn the engine over the starter sounds like its not getting enough power to crank. it cranks very slow. i did do a dry start to get oil circulated in the engine. i had the plugs out while dry starting and it cranked over very well. when i put the plugs back in it would only turn over 3 times but very slow. i need to recharge my battery tomorrow and give it another shot. it was getting late so i didnt get to check for spark.

im concerned about my fuel pump tho. i was trying to prime the fuel system since it was empty. the pump will never turn off when priming. after a few times of turning the motor over a relay on the driver side kick panel kept clicking and making the fuel pump turn on and off constantly. i dont know what relay near the fuse box on the driver kick panel would cause this. well tomorrow is another day so hopefully i will get some progress done. any updates mike?

[Om1kron]

Just an fyi, you probably will need to replace your fuel pump eventually. I killed mine during testing and killed a battery with the constant recharging. If it's priming forever that means it's not building fuel pressure which means there is a fuel leak.

But it probably sounds like it's priming forever because it doesn't have enough power to operate properly with a dying battery.

[midnight_rex]

Originally Posted by Om1kron

Just an fyi, you probably will need to replace your fuel pump eventually. I killed mine during testing and killed a battery with the constant recharging. If it's priming forever that means it's not building fuel pressure which means there is a fuel leak.

But it probably sounds like it's priming forever because it doesn't have enough power to operate properly with a dying battery.

there is no fuel leak. that was the first thing to look for when noticing the problem. my pressure gauge stays at 20 psi when the car is off and jumps to about 50psi when priming. im going to check it out again later on today.

[midnight_rex]

i forgot to mention that the fuel pump would click back off like normal sometimes. i think one of the relays in the driver side kick panel is causing it to click on and off. there is no leaks in the system. there are 3 relays that are on the fuse block on the driver side. one of the blue relays is keeps clicking on and off constantly. what relay is this? could this be a ignition relay of some sort? the fuel pump relay is not on the fuse block like the ones o mentioned.

[greenman100]

My Haltech started my SR20 no issues.

You need to get it running on stock EMS first, otherwise you're bothering Haltech support with issues they dont have experience solving, nor the responsibility of figuring out.

[midnight_rex]

Originally Posted by greenman100

My Haltech started my SR20 no issues.

You need to get it running on stock EMS first, otherwise you're bothering Haltech support with issues they dont have experience solving, nor the responsibility of figuring out.

yea im gonna load up the basemap haltech included and try to start it from there.

[greenman100]

Originally Posted by midnight_rex

yea im gonna load up the basemap haltech included and try to start it from there.

No, start with your STOCK EMS. This gets rid of as many variables as possible. Sometimes, basemaps have bad values for trigger window, etc.

Find a known good stock ECU. Plug it in. If it doesn't work, you know its a wiring or sensor issue.

[midnight_rex]

Originally Posted by greenman100

No, start with your STOCK EMS. This gets rid of as many variables as possible. Sometimes, basemaps have bad values for trigger window, etc.

Find a known good stock ECU. Plug it in. If it doesn't work, you know its a wiring or sensor issue.

im not running a MAF sensor anymore. im running a MAP sensor. it will not start with a stock ECU

[misfitsfreak81]

yeah once you go to the haltech the maf is eliminated and switch to run off of a map sensor. so it will never start with the stock ecu. end of story on that one.

so i got the some bitch to start and idle on its own juice tonight finally. it was a matter of getting the injector latency times from Deatschwerks for the injectors im running and popping that info into the haltech, made some adjustments to the duty cyle on the iacv and bam, bitch starts on the second revolution!! finally running on all 4 cylinders. then i adjusted the idle manualy on the iacv itself. got it to idle at about 1000rpm with a slight lope due to the cams.
the settings that eric had in the map he built me were just educated guesses as to the latency times. that shit appears to be super critical to get right. otherwise your injectors are on way too long and no matter how much fuel you pull out of the base map youll likely never get anywhere.

midnight rex, it sounds like you have a combo of shot battery and a sticking relay. i know that the eccs relay is on the pass side behind the factory ecu, if youre looking in the cavity its the one on the left. should be like 3 red wires and a black with white stripe wire. this is on a us s14, not sure what car you have but hopefully that helps. i believe that the ignition relay is in the fuse pannel driver side foot well. also sounds like your fuel pump relay could be sticking or the setting in the haltech for fuel pump prime duration is jacked.

thanks to everybody who chimed in on this issue. hope to have my car on the dyno by the middle of next week. ill try to post a dyno sheet when i get one. lets keep this alive in order to help others who may be having the same or similar issues to the ones above.

Mike

[midnight_rex]

I have a s14 with a fully built SR20.

well i got my car started tonight! it was a matter of having a fully charged battery and lots of cranking to build up compression lol. it fired up and sounded strong. im having the same problem as you mike. i cant get it to idle. i had to hold it at 2.5k rpm so it wouldnt die. tomorrow im getting a new battery and some new plugs for backups. the fuel pump relay situation is weird. somtimes it will cut off and then sometimes it will have the pump contantly priming. should i just get a new relay? i didnt have a extra relay to check it with.

[misfitsfreak81]

Originally Posted by midnight_rex

I have a s14 with a fully built SR20.

well i got my car started tonight! it was a matter of having a fully charged battery and lots of cranking to build up compression lol. it fired up and sounded strong. im having the same problem as you mike. i cant get it to idle. i had to hold it at 2.5k rpm so it wouldnt die. tomorrow im getting a new battery and some new plugs for backups. the fuel pump relay situation is weird. somtimes it will cut off and then sometimes it will have the pump contantly priming. should i just get a new relay? i didnt have a extra relay to check it with.

right on, my s14 is pretty much built too, only things left are aluminum drive shaft and body kit and paint. still rockin the stock old lady gold. i hate the color but oh well. gonna reapolster the interior within the month hopefully, got some Bride fabric at blowout price so i bought a shit load of it. and have special plans for the doors and headliner.

yeah id just pick up an extra relay or two, i think they are less than 10 bucks usually. i had a bunch laying around in extra harnesses so those are my backups. i pm'd you with extra info about getting your idle better. also as i side note i threw some cheapass ngk coppers in there to tune on then will likely go back to iridiums at the first oil change.

Mike

[GhostofAkina]

Glad to see you guys got your gremlins worked out! I bought a haltech ps1000 this winter and have yet to put it in. Mostly due to lazyness. Was wondering what ends up being done with the maf wires after the haltech is in and there is no need for them. I know I could probably just look at a pinout but figure I'd just ask. Also, did either of you use the base maps that came with the ecu? I've read that you have to import the E8 s13 sr map but not everything transfers over cleanly. I just recently E-mailed Claudio at haltech for the converted map but haven't heard back from him yet. Edit: I have the pnp kit

[misfitsfreak81]

have you heard back from claudio? hes usually kinda slow for what i can tell.

i went through my harness and de pinned everything that was no longer needed or used. it takes a while but makes everything easier and look better. i used map that i got from chris at haltech. it at least got it started. the biggest thing is to make sure you have the injector dead time or latency set correctly.

Mike
North Shore Performance Auto and Fabrication

[steve shadows]

Originally Posted by misfitsfreak81

yah i know it should idle on three cylinders. pm me your email and ill send you a copy of the map that im trying to start it on along with a mod list. ive gotta believe that theres just too much fuel still. plus im running deatschwerks 810cc injectors and have been told that they suck for idle? not sure, they are brand new and shouldnt suck for the price that they are

Yes...Please move to Denso type injectors, any Tomei, SARD or Nismo will work.

I had lots of issues with my 810 D-werks, switched to SARDs and made a world of difference on my personal race car. Did this on some other customers cars also made a big difference.

[misfitsfreak81]

well the motor is down due to what i believe to be a malfunction in tuning. pretty sure that the motor will go boom when reving to 7500 @ 12psi with timing locked to 15degrees. someone correct me if im wrong or back me up if im right. pm me if you want more details.

crushed #4 rod bearing wich took out the other bearings in the bottom end, screwed the rod and the crank ect.... soooo its back to square one with another rebuild on the way. gonna go 87mm pistons, forged rods and possibly a stroker crank. block is going to the machine shop on sat to get punched and line honed and the head is getting a reworking that has nothing to due with the bearing letting go. ill keep this updated hopefully with pics when i can.

Mike

[greenman100]

Originally Posted by misfitsfreak81

well the motor is down due to what i believe to be a malfunction in tuning. pretty sure that the motor will go boom when reving to 7500 @ 12psi with timing locked to 15degrees. someone correct me if im wrong or back me up if im right. pm me if you want more details.

crushed #4 rod bearing wich took out the other bearings in the bottom end, screwed the rod and the crank ect.... soooo its back to square one with another rebuild on the way. gonna go 87mm pistons, forged rods and possibly a stroker crank. block is going to the machine shop on sat to get punched and line honed and the head is getting a reworking that has nothing to due with the bearing letting go. ill keep this updated hopefully with pics when i can.

Mike

15deg at 12psi is pretty conservative, actually.

something else is wrong. the only place you have less than 15deg timing at 12psi is <2000rpm....which you cant make that much boost at.

only thing i can think of is bad cas adj, bad assembly, bad bearings, bad lubricant

[misfitsfreak81]

well it has a brand new cas, had brand new acl race bearings and was running full synthetic oil. the assembly was done by me, by the fsm and everything was tripple checked. all the clearences were within factory and only a little on the tight side.

i realize that the only time you really see 15deg is at vac <2000. thats what i was wondering about. the timing in the haltech was locked at 15deg via the timing lock function and we went out and made 3 or 4 3rd gear pulls from 3000rpm to about 6500. then made one pull to 7500rpm and the bitch let loose. what im trying to figure out is if there should be more advance in the timing. from everything that i know, the more rpm and the more load the motor is seeing the more advanced the timing should be. on decel the timing is gets retarded. the thing that first tipped me off mere minutes befor the motor popped was the afr's going nuts. on boost they werent too bad, maybe 12 was the leanest i saw. however on decel it was litteraly puking fuel to try and stop missfires, i mean i saw 8.0 on my wideband. also the oil temps were steadily rising quite fast.

when i tore down the motor on sat. i found the #4 rod bearing to be smashed and then spun. it was literally mushroomed over the edges of the rod. im guessing that that could only have been from detonation, however correct me if im wrong.

please everyone feel free to chime in on this. im trying to figure out if i fucked up or if someone else did. if it was me then thats fine, i can bite that bullet, but if its someone else then things are different. thanks in advance.

[Geno750]

Originally Posted by misfitsfreak81

well it has a brand new cas, had brand new acl race bearings and was running full synthetic oil. the assembly was done by me, by the fsm and everything was tripple checked. all the clearences were within factory and only a little on the tight side.

i realize that the only time you really see 15deg is at vac <2000. thats what i was wondering about. the timing in the haltech was locked at 15deg via the timing lock function and we went out and made 3 or 4 3rd gear pulls from 3000rpm to about 6500. then made one pull to 7500rpm and the bitch let loose. what im trying to figure out is if there should be more advance in the timing. from everything that i know, the more rpm and the more load the motor is seeing the more advanced the timing should be. on decel the timing is gets retarded. the thing that first tipped me off mere minutes befor the motor popped was the afr's going nuts. on boost they werent too bad, maybe 12 was the leanest i saw. however on decel it was litteraly puking fuel to try and stop missfires, i mean i saw 8.0 on my wideband. also the oil temps were steadily rising quite fast.

when i tore down the motor on sat. i found the #4 rod bearing to be smashed and then spun. it was literally mushroomed over the edges of the rod. im guessing that that could only have been from detonation, however correct me if im wrong.

please everyone feel free to chime in on this. im trying to figure out if i fucked up or if someone else did. if it was me then thats fine, i can bite that bullet, but if its someone else then things are different. thanks in advance.

If you left the timing locked, the ecu will pretty much ignore your ignition map and just stick with whatever the lock value is set to.

[greenman100]

Originally Posted by misfitsfreak81

well it has a brand new cas, had brand new acl race bearings and was running full synthetic oil. the assembly was done by me, by the fsm and everything was tripple checked. all the clearences were within factory and only a little on the tight side.

i realize that the only time you really see 15deg is at vac <2000. thats what i was wondering about. the timing in the haltech was locked at 15deg via the timing lock function and we went out and made 3 or 4 3rd gear pulls from 3000rpm to about 6500. then made one pull to 7500rpm and the bitch let loose. what im trying to figure out is if there should be more advance in the timing. from everything that i know, the more rpm and the more load the motor is seeing the more advanced the timing should be. on decel the timing is gets retarded. the thing that first tipped me off mere minutes befor the motor popped was the afr's going nuts. on boost they werent too bad, maybe 12 was the leanest i saw. however on decel it was litteraly puking fuel to try and stop missfires, i mean i saw 8.0 on my wideband. also the oil temps were steadily rising quite fast.

when i tore down the motor on sat. i found the #4 rod bearing to be smashed and then spun. it was literally mushroomed over the edges of the rod. im guessing that that could only have been from detonation, however correct me if im wrong.

please everyone feel free to chime in on this. im trying to figure out if i fucked up or if someone else did. if it was me then thats fine, i can bite that bullet, but if its someone else then things are different. thanks in advance.

no, no, no, no!

The more "advanced" the timing is, the earlier before TDC the spark plug fires.
The more "retarded" the timing is, the later it fires.

As you can probably imagine, under boost, you want to fire later - this minimizes stresses and potential for detonation. If you fire early, then the mixture is burning while the piston is still compressing, which makes for higher combustion temperatures and pressures.

These higher temperatures/pressures make for more power, but more stress on the engine as knocking develops.

Timing and AFR are for our purposes unrelated. AFR is dependent purely on injector pulse width. The fact that you're 8:1 on decel means that your high vac, high RPM portion of the map is too rich.

Might be a good idea to post your fuel and ignition maps up here in screenshot form.

As far as blowing the motor, if you were timing locked to 15deg, my bet is that your base timing was incorrect, meaning that in actuality you were locked to a value greater than 15deg.... or you had a boost spike.

[misfitsfreak81]

i will attempt to post a screen shot of the fuel map. the map is appears to be just fine. i was guessing that the 8.0 i was seeing on the wideband was due the the severe misfires that were happening on decel and that the ecu was just dumping fuel to stop the knock. this car ran fine for 2 weeks on the exact fuel map that it was running when it popped. the only variable was that the ignition was accidentaly locked at 15deg. that is the only change. so im relating the motor poping to the lock timing.

thanks for any more input

[greenman100]

Originally Posted by misfitsfreak81

i will attempt to post a screen shot of the fuel map. the map is appears to be just fine. i was guessing that the 8.0 i was seeing on the wideband was due the the severe misfires that were happening on decel and that the ecu was just dumping fuel to stop the knock. this car ran fine for 2 weeks on the exact fuel map that it was running when it popped. the only variable was that the ignition was accidentaly locked at 15deg. that is the only change. so im relating the motor poping to the lock timing.

thanks for any more input

Misfires result in lean readings, typically.

Misfire causing car to run lean and smell like fuel? - evolutionm.net

Haltechs don't have knock control.