my .02 on cams for boosted motors

[army240]

Originally Posted by midnight_rex

i got JWT S4 cams with my t3/t4 (motor fully built from the top - down). what kind of street/response would i get out of it?

I think we need more info... what kind of built? solid lifter? headwork? Stroker Kit? Manifold? etc...

[midnight_rex]

Originally Posted by army240

I think we need more info... what kind of built? solid lifter? headwork? Stroker Kit? Manifold? etc...

CP 8.5:1 86.5mm pistons
eagle rods
balanced full assembly
ATI damper
oem nissan rod and main bearings

BC valve spring and retainers
BC 1mm+ exhaust/intake valves
suptech valve seals
JWT S4 cams
Apexi head gasket
all new rocker arms, shims, and guides
P2M RAS
ISIS intake manifold

turbonetics T3/T4 -.63 AR - Stage 3 wheel
SS top mount Log manifold
Haltech PS1000 EMS

[dato]

motors are different but can be similiar results ???? honda motors respond well to aftermarket n/a cams for boosted setups, maybe for ka too?

[army240]

Originally Posted by army240

Thanks a lot on this fantastic discussion on cams!

What do you guys think about stagered cam setup? I'm about to install HKS 256/264 (int/exh), 10.5mm lift, on a stock internal, stock head, tomei expreme manifold, HKS GT2540, all support mods, on a friend car...

I ran the number throught the calculator on the KA-T site, here's what it give :

Overlap : 4.00 degrees
Intake Duration : 222.00 degrees.
The Exhaust Duration : 225.00 degrees.
The Inlet Cam has an Installed Centerline of 108.00 degrees ATDC.
The exhaust cam has an Installed Centerline of 111.50 degrees BTDC.

I've seen some nice dyno sheets with the stock intake cam, and BC 264 on the exhaust side, with T28... Not big number, but nice powerband all along the RPM range.

Anyway, i'm just curious what you guys think about stagered cam setup!

And again, this is a really interresting discussion!

Frank

Here's the dyno graph at 18 psi!



I know, it isn't clear, it's a picture of the dyno sheet...

I don't have a "Before" dyno sheet... but I said I'd post the "After" one.

Frank

[Z U L8R]

not bad Frank, that's a pretty responsive powerband, car would definitely be fun to drive congrats brotha!

as far as my 2j goes, i got crower springs/retainers, the stock hg /w arp head studs, stock gte aristo bottom end....waiting to get some cams as the only cams i have are the usdm's....however they have a lot of surface rust and for my goal of 600+ which actually looks more like 700-800 i'm gonna need bigger cams...

so i'm deciding between the gsc s1's or the bc 264's....

i know i said i'd start with stock cams until i HAD to upgrade, but A. my power goal surpasses the stock cams' efficiency, and B. my stock cams are in pretty crappy shape.

i already got my sound performance quick spool valve, and instead of the gtx42/94r which is a 70.8mm turbo @ $2300+ , i'm rolling with the billy bad ass comp turbo vrp72ett, which is the borg warner s372 (72mm) which has the extended tip wheels with a triple ball bearing center section, for $1350 shipped /w a polished housing.

here's what the quick spool valve's look like, they also come with either a hobbs switch, or an electric boost solenoid your ems can control, available in t3, t4, and t6 flanges



i'm going with two bosche 044 fuel pumps, 1200cc injectors and e85, with aem series2 for engine management.

at 24-25psi it should EASILY queef out 700rwhp, but i may and knowing me probably will run 30psi.

i'm hoping and don't see why i shouldn't have 4,000 rpms worth of usable powerband.

instead of spending a jillion dollars and lots of time waiting on fab work to get the motor in my 71 240z, especially since i'm still waiting on the fab work for my little brother's project before mine can get movin....pics of his poop in progress





so unless i learn how to tig weld beautifully immediately lol, i'll be putting my 2j in my zenki s14 which is getting more goodies slowly but surely

anyways back on topic, i elaborated on the build so you could see the whole picture with my point being that

A. it's apples and oranges since this is a 3 liter motor that can spool a big ass turbo vs my previous posts in context referring to ~2.0 liter motors with huge cams

B. mine isn't a low 300hp build using big ass aggressive cam profiles (which in context was the purpose of this thread), it's more of a big ass hp build using pretty much the mildest aftermarket cams available.

C. i never said cam's didn't have their place in the scheme/purpose of builds, I mainly emphasized researching and knowing how your mod will effect your desired results and not just blindly doing the same mods as non turbo honda guys because the parts are available.

i'll keep you posted on my build if interested, i may just start a build thread once it's closer to completion...if there is a place for that on this forum, i still have a ways to go and some more doll-hairs to spend before she's done

anywho, here's a pic of my zenki daily this is going into once i'm done rounding up all my parts. in the meantime i'll keep driving her everyday cause cold AC kicks ass haha


still stock for the most part, just springs, brakes, and 35% tint, and lots of little tiny dings i can see cause it's a black car that are driving me nuts haha (i'm really convincing myself by justifying the need for aero mods, paint, and body work)

Dave

[army240]

Haha, I see you still have some work to do!

I've got a question on the quick spool valve... how does that thing work?!? With one of the scroll close, the manifold pressure goes up, so turbo spools faster?!? when you achieve desired boost, the valve open, so everything flows nicely?!? Am I right or totally wrong?

What is the difference in spool time? Do you need to have a twin-scroll manifold absolutely?

Haha, I'm really curious :P

Frank

[Z U L8R]

np, yeah this thing is freakin bad ass. it's like the simpleton version of a variable "vein" aka variable geometry turbo. basically the same effect

basically the quick spool valve + undivided manifold > legit twin scroll everything.

and how you understand it is correct.

basically it's like putting your thumb over your garden hose. it increases the velocity of the exhaust gas but not just that, that extra velocity is going to your exducer aka tips of your exhaust turbine and gets that sucker moving, then it opens up and allows flow to both sides of the exhaust housing without any restriction up top....

you use a non divided manifold, the qsv, and a twin scroll exhaust housing.

basically it takes your exhaust a/r whether it be .63 , .84, 1.00, or whatever, and momentarily cuts the size in half so then once your turbo wakes up it's wide open. therefore allowing you to run a bigger a/r than you'd normally run so you'd have more flow and thus power up top, yet gives you the benefits of having a smaller than you can even buy exhaust housing for response down low.

which is why in function it's like having a variable geometry exhaust housing since it gets smaller/bigger where it matters.

before i forked out $500 for this bad Larry i googled over and over again about this, cause it made sense to me how it worked and why it'd work but if it's kick ass, why the hell don't more people use it? answer: it's $500 hahah

so ya, i didn't find anyone anywhere that said it didn't work. the only 2 bad things i ever read about it were 1. people bitching about the price, 2. people that made their own, and had their's fail. but i never saw anywhere that anyone had a sound performance qsv fail.

looking at the thing man it really is a quality piece. if you wanna see real results of the thing in action check this out.


YouTube - Sound Performance Quick Spool Valve testing and results!!!
YouTube - Sound Performance Quick Spool Valve

^ those are youtube videos you can watch

i'm totally leary and skeptical, like "yeah you guys made the part of course you're gonna have a test that makes this thing look bad ass"

but beyond the sales-pitch it logically makes complete sense how it'd work

and if you look at that guy's powerband.. almost 100 more hp at 2800 rpm..~120 more hp at 3250, ~130 more hp at 3700.....

it's legit! don't worry, you can see how it works out on my car. i'll be the guinea pig, i already have mine.



i would bet money that if you had an sr20det, with a full race or baller expensive twin scroll manifold and a gt28/71r .63 exhaust a/r and did a dyno pull at 18psi

then you put an undivided t3 log manifold, or even better apples and apples, an xspower top mount t3 undivided tubular manifold (since the full race is tubular too) with a quick spool valve and a gt30/76r .63 at 18 psi....

even after you spent 500 bucks on the quick spool valve, you'd have spent less money on your turbo set up, you'd have faster spool with the gt30r vs the gt28r and your WHOLE POWER BAND bottom to top power/torque would kick the 28's ASS!

therefore netting you, a better powerband, quicker response, more power/torque in general everywhere, and it'd cost you less.......

if i were doing a 60mm or bigger turbo on a ka i would do a qsv....ideally for my ka-t 510 once i start making progress on it again i will do a qsv + gt30r or something a lil bigger like a billet pte62 or a comparable comp turbo.

i haven't really gotten excited about an aftermarket product in a while..but man this thing totally pokes a fat finger in the eye of the saying "you can't have your cake and eat it too"

you can run a cheap ebay manifold, a bigger turbo and have better spool...or even just the same turbo you have now and some bigger cams for more power up top and it'll equalize your losses down low hahaha, i love it.

they should pay me for my endorsements ! seriously though i'm psyched, i can't wait to try it out.

another encouraging thing for my build that i duly noted....even on that guy's dyno graph with the quick spool valve open the whole time.....it still is a responsive powerband.

it's a non ball bearing gt42 (70.8mm) with a .90 a/r turbo on a STOCK motor making ~450hp @ 4300rpm on up... even without the qsv working that's a fun 450hp car to drive....

then WITH the qsv...that thing is awesome!

the expression "if you can't beat em....join em" ....why i haven't had a 2j in any of my cars before this bewilders me... lol

for a month no one could answer my question "name me 2 motors that can make 1000+ hp on the stock bottom end for 2 years plus?"

answer 1 = 2jz-gte
answer 2 = ........................... took a while but someone said a viper motor...
even if they're correct and a stock bottom end viper motor can do it, which there is a guy here named joseph with a twin turbo 1300hp silver viper...however he's been through 3 motors because the crank snaps and the harmonic balancer flies off the motor lol, and now he's fully built... so i'm still talking stock motor....

so even if my buddy who said a viper motor is correct.....2j motorset = $1800 + 1000-1500 for trans/clutch/bellhousing...so lets say 3300 for a 5 speed 2j motor set that comes with forged pistons from the factory, capable of lets be conservative and say 600hp all day every day won't bat an eye..... how much is a viper motor?? i rest my case...

how many stock bottom end rb26's do you see/hear about with bolt on's reliably cranking out 600hp?

and even if you did get passed the notorious weak rb ring land issue...it's still a 2.6L vs 3.0L. lol just sayin

don't get me wrong...i'm a devout nissan guy....we all know and most will agree though that a 2j > rb26....i hope...but no longer can i keep a blind eye to how much better an inline 6 motor it is to nissan's I6... i can only hang on to my pride for so long until i must admit....although it's a heavy ass frickin motor.....it's King....and non-interference too :P

my .02, justification/blog/rant

Dave

ps this is my thread and i do what i want in my thread hahahha, to stay back on topic, you can run big ass cams if you have a quick spool valve.......maybe lol.

[army240]

Originally Posted by Z U L8R

ps this is my thread and i do what i want in my thread hahahha, to stay back on topic, you can run big ass cams if you have a quick spool valve.......maybe lol.

You can run a big ass turbo with a quick spool valve, therefore you can run bigger cam to help that boy breathe! haha

Well, it surely look like a nice piece of work. I don't know what it could do with a Sr20det and a GT35R .63 and a full-race gen. 1 manifold, and BC 272's...

Hummm, maybe will find out one day(when I'll have 500$ in hands...) hahaha

Thanks a lot Dave for the info, this is very appreciated dude!

Frank