RWD SR20VE musings

[Matej]

Originally Posted by TEALSQUEAL

Yellow, yes I got the timing kit, water neck setup, and timing relocation all for $450 usd shipped.

Their water neck looks neat, I plan to order it as well. Though I wonder if it will fit with my top-mount oil filter housing.

Does anyone know by how many degrees exactly does the RWD pulley sit clocked at TDC in relation to the timing pin on the VE oil pump cover?
I am considering switching to an RWD pulley, just so I can use an RWD water pump with clutch fan, along with an RWD alternator setup.

Originally Posted by jr_ss

However, I have seen some claims that people are in the 210-220ish range with the DE bottomend on a VE head swap.

A 'healthy' VE is around 220, though it can range anywhere between 200-240.
A VE block is the same as a FWD DE block, and I have heard before that the RWD DE block is internally the same as the FWD DE, so those numbers sound about correct according to the transitive property.

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by Matej

Does anyone know by how many degrees exactly does the RWD pulley sit clocked at TDC in relation to the timing pin on the VE oil pump cover?
I am considering switching to an RWD pulley, just so I can use an RWD water pump with clutch fan, along with an RWD alternator setup.

You can use the VE crank pulley, you'll just need to have 5mm milled off the back side of it so it lines up with the RWD accessories. However, I cannot tell you the degrees because I am running the VE crank pulley.

Originally Posted by Matej

A 'healthy' VE is around 220, though it can range anywhere between 200-240.
A VE block is the same as a FWD DE block, and I have heard before that the RWD DE block is internally the same as the FWD DE, so those numbers sound about correct according to the transitive property.

Yeah, I've seen plenty of information on the VE and VE/DE compression numbers. I'm more so interested in the VE/DET numbers. I'm not sure what 1.5-1.8 points in lower static compression yields in overall compression.

[Matej]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

You can use the VE crank pulley, you'll just need to have 5mm milled off the back side of it so it lines up with the RWD accessories. However, I cannot tell you the degrees because I am running the VE crank pulley.

Is milling off 5mm even possible? The VE pulley is already right up on the cover.
Do you run the alternator and water pump off of the front 6-rib ring, or the smaller 4-rib one?

Now I regret selling the single-belt Ross pulley I had. I think I will buy another one and use the spacer with it.

[jr_ss]

My crank pulley is pretty damn close to the cover. Mazworx has stated you needed to mill 5mm off and I'm running their original VET setup. I'm using the rear two belt provisions, alternator and water pump and power steering, no A/C currently.

I sold my old ATI damper and was kicking myself for it when I realized it just needed to be milled. I'll acquire another one in the near future.

[rbs14kouki]

On my sr20vet ! Im running the

- det crank pulley
- ve oil pump spacer
- all det acc. (Power steering and alt)
- i had to shave my crank pulley by about 5mm

[jr_ss]

Matej, I'm sorry. I too am running the DET pulley, which gets milled 5mm to line up for the DET accessories. Not sure why I said VE pulley, idiot.

[Matej]

No big deal.
The thing that is confusing me, why do people space out the pulley, only to have to machine out 5mm from the back of it? I am sure there is a reason, so I am curious what it is.
Or when people say 'spacer,' do they mean the oil pump drive collar? I know the drive collar is longer on the VE than the DE one.

[jr_ss]

Without the spacer on the milled setup, when you tighten down on the crank pulley bolt you actually bind the oil pump, which prevents the motor from rotating. I'm not sure why you would have to mill 5mm off only to add a .125" shim. The only reason I can think of is, it's because of the oil pump crank collar sticking out an extra 5mm and the crank pulley not designed/shaped to slide into the oil pump. Thus needing the spacer to slide into the oil pump.

[Matej]

Alright, for some reason I was under the impression that the DE crank pulley 'neck' is shorter than the VE one, but it is actually longer. That would make sense.
How To: Crank pulley -- Oil Pump -- Spacer (all common combinations explained!) (I assume it is the same case for both FWD and RWD.)

[rbs14kouki]

The de oil pump spacer is short ! You need to use the mazworx or other companie spacer to bring it to right lenght !

And after that mill down you crank pulley


I went strait with the ve oil pump spacer (so no need to add the mazworx spacer) and mill down my crank pulley 4 or 5 mm

[Yellow4g63]

if you don't mill the det pulley with the VE oil pump.

[Matej]

That all sounds unnecessarily complicated for what I want, which is to use the S13 water pump and run a clutch fan.

I suppose I will just stick with my initial plan of using e-fans and doing this.

[Matej]

By the way, it would have been quite easy to hook up the stock FWD VE accessories, even though they are on opposite sides. For the power steering, one would just need to use RHD lines and run them under the motor, and move the reservoir to the passenger side. In the same manner, for the alternator, the only requirement would be to extend the wiring.

The only reason why I started messing with relocating the alternator is because I am doing a custom manual steering rack setup, so I want to run a single belt. Though another benefit of having it on that side is that other than for the distributor connector, a KA24DE engine harness will be plug-and-play.

Mating the RWD is transmission to the FWD block is also nowhere near as difficult as I was initially led to believe.

[rbs14kouki]

Did you guys knew that we can use harley davidson valve shim to reshim the ve head to proper spec !!! They cost 1/4 of the price

I bought all my shim needed from them

They had a kit just like that : Hot Cams Valve Shim Kits

[Yellow4g63]

I used the Harley Vrod shims on my N/A VE motor. They have another shim kit out on the market too it's not from harley tho I forget the who it was. I found the info on the sr20-forum.

[Matej]

For the oil pickup, I bought an SR16VE one. It is about the same height as the SR20VE pickup, but it has the added bracing, and the best part is that it actually sits further back. The 20VE pickup is centered in the RWD oil baffle opening, while the 16VE one sits closer to the rear wall of the pan.

(Not my picture.)



As for making it sit at the proper depth, I am deciding between two options.
The first would be to use an oil pickup spacer, such as the one from the 370Z oil pan spacer kits, and having it machined down to 12-15mm, which is how much taller the RWD pickup is. I inquired about buying just the pickup spacer separately, and the two companies that replied quoted me under 20$ shipped.


The second option would be to have the pan shortened by 12-15mm. Some capacity would be lost, though if it is an aftermarket pan it should still hold more oil than the stock one. The advantage of this way is that the pan would be further out of harm's way on a lowered car, and I probably would not need a skid plate. However, it would be a bother to have to find someone who would be able to do this professionally.

[GroundPerformance]

Or you can buy them ready to go with no hassle for about 130 @ Mazworx.

Oil Pickup - VVL/VE Conversion Parts - Mazworx

[GroundPerformance]

Most of the comments here is actually how I'm building my current SR20VET build. P11 Head with P12 VVL Solenoid, CAS Sensor, Ignition Coil packs. Firewall will clear but very tight on 20V CAS but nothing a little smacking on the firewall can't fix. Besides it would hardly be even noticeable. I like this build since it brings a bit challenge since most I know thinks they would have to go all out with fancy parts to make this happen. But in reality it can be done for relatively reasonable amount if you shop around and think outside the box. Think of this if you're willing to invest on Solid lifters, Cams, and other Headwork related upgrades to improve what already a bad Roller Rocker head. You can afford this..

[Matej]

Originally Posted by GroundPerformance

Or you can buy them ready to go with no hassle for about 130 @ Mazworx.

Indeed, but there is nothing for me to bolt the arm to, since my engine does not have a girdle, plus I just like the newer style better than the bulky old one.

My ideology behind my motor is to use as many OEM or 'off-the-shelf' parts as possible, so in case something breaks I will not need another one-off/custom part.
In following my own logic, I suppose the pickup spacer would be the way for me to go with.

[GroundPerformance]

I'm assuming RWD SR Short Block, VE Pump/Cover, VE Head on a S-Chassis?

[rbs14kouki]

He's using a fwd ve with a adaptor kit for rwd transmission !

[GroundPerformance]

Ok.. Whole FWD SR20VE longblock with RWD tranny adapted..? It seems IMO might be a lot more work.. But its definitely different and very interesting.

[Matej]

It is not too bad. There are two ways I am deciding between.

One is to use the RWD oil pan, which makes all the bolts besides the starter area ones mate up. I would just make a custom dust shield to cover any openings and grind out the transmission for the FWD starter to fit.




The other option would be to use the complete motor and have the front of the FWD bell housing welded to the RWD one.




There are minor pros and cons to either way.

[TEALSQUEAL]

Great info on the Harley shims!!! I shimmed my intake and exhaust cams on the tight side of clearances.

[Matej]

SR16VE pickup with spacer.

[Matej]

RWD upper oil pan on the FWD block.

[Matej]

Gentlemen with VVL heads, do you gasket-match the exhaust manifold to the VE gasket? It seems that it should be beneficial, especially since one of the main advantages of the VE is better breathing, not to mention it is one of the only Nissan 4-cylinders that actually sees significant gains from a good header setup.
Though at the same time I do not really want to go wild with a dremel on my header flange if the difference will be negligible.

[Yellow4g63]

make the bolt holes bigger so you can make the ports match.

[Matej]

Originally Posted by Yellow4g63

make the bolt holes bigger so you can make the ports match.

Manifolds made to fit S15 SR's actually do not even need the holes slotted.

However, I meant matching the head side of the header flange to the VVL gasket.
Basically, grinding out the protruding material to match the gasket and make for a smooth transition from the head to the header.
Not an SR header, but similar to this.

[jr_ss]

There was no need to open my gasket up nor the ports in my manifold. The PeakBoost was already slightly larger than the VE ports, which are no bigger(just higher) than the DET ports. If they are bigger, it's negligible and not visible by the naked eye. I didn't notice any difference with the VE and an S14 head next to each other.