SR Cranks but wont start. Timing perfect. - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

codyace · 03-30-2013, 08:33 AM

Sounds like you're not assembling the mechanical side of it right at all.

- Set engine to TDC. THis is second mark from the left, or 0* with the first cylinder being up all the way too.

- Make sure first cam lobes are facing completly opposite of each other (9 and 3)

- Take out the tensioner

-Locate the cam dowel pins. You want them at 10 and 12ish

- Look at the little dots on the gears. This gives you the starting point/tooth 1 on both cams

- Looking at the exhaust side, count the number of teeth on the gear between it and the head flange for valve cover. Between 8 and 9 teeth

-Do the same on the intake. You're looking at between 4.5 to 5.5 teeth

-Count the pins on the timing chain between both of the dots I mention above. 20 pins exactly.

-Put tensioner back in, and crank engine over with a wratchet. Do this a few times and then bring back to TDC and reconfirm the alignment.

Hope that helps. Install the CAS then after you sort the above.

codyace · 03-30-2013, 08:35 AM

I tried doing a quick google search for pictures if you're visual

http://jimwolftechnology.com/wolfpdf...NSTFORSR20.PDF

Installing Tomei Poncams on S13 SR20DET

SR20 Setup Tips

Danger_Dorn · 03-30-2013, 08:50 AM

Thanks alot brother, Ill go follow your instructions and try again.

Danger_Dorn · 03-30-2013, 11:01 AM

Still something off...I got it to stumble finally like its firing on 1 cyl or something...still timing? Nothing could have possibly gone wrong electronic wise during the week of my head off. Everything is exactly like ^. Best I can get is one contant "Chug"? It feels like its still out of timing. Anything else I should try? Maybe moving teeth one way or the other with the cams?

codyace · 03-30-2013, 12:24 PM

Loosen the distributor and crank it all the way in one direction (and try starting) and then the other way (and try starting it). You could be off a tooth for sure still, it's got to be precise

With that said, your plugs aren't potentially fouled are they?

Danger_Dorn · 03-30-2013, 12:50 PM

If the cam timing was off what are the chances of bent valves? I didnt hear anything crazy but the exhaust cam was off by one tooth. It should still start up though right?

Danger_Dorn · 03-30-2013, 01:17 PM

Well its got a cas but yeah i have tried that. They are brand new plugs. I just cranks and i will be like *wee wee wee blub wee wee blub blub* It will keep trying to kinda fire on one cyl if I keep cranking it. If I let off the ignition it sometimes chokes at like 100 rpm then dies. Not sure what else to do other than hand it over to a shop.

codyace · 03-30-2013, 05:25 PM

Is the injector/maf correct for the ECU? Are both wired up properly too?

I'd start looking into troubleshooting other sensors now.

ultimateirving · 03-30-2013, 05:55 PM

YOu can you check the ecu for codes? if it says anything is out of norm

Danger_Dorn · 03-30-2013, 06:19 PM

the maf was good before when it was running and I have no ecu codes. its gotta be timing still but I know its good. Ill post another video tomorrow of the timing components, grounds, cranking, and spark plugs

ultimateirving · 03-30-2013, 09:05 PM

Try restabbing the cas maybe i dunno?

Danger_Dorn · 03-31-2013, 07:36 AM

This is so lame! I have stabbed the CAS many different ways. Is it possible that the Ignitor chip isnt giving a strong enough of a signal?

inopsey · 03-31-2013, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danger_Dorn

This is so lame! I have stabbed the CAS many different ways. Is it possible that the Ignitor chip isnt giving a strong enough of a signal?

have you not checked for spark? first 3 things to check for on an engine that wont start are fuel compression and spark.

Danger_Dorn · 03-31-2013, 01:50 PM

I did check for spark. I just posted a video to youtube of all my timing and spark. I was saying maybe their not getting enough spark

ultimateirving · 03-31-2013, 08:09 PM

Did any water get on the coil packs ?

Danger_Dorn · 04-01-2013, 04:29 AM

here is a more detailed video of my timing and stuff...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B68diptqOH4

e5s4y · 04-01-2013, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danger_Dorn

here is a more detailed video of my timing and stuff...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B68diptqOH4

video is private?

do a compression test also just to check for any irregularities. that first video sounded SUPER weird

Danger_Dorn · 04-01-2013, 01:06 PM

There I set it to public. Yeah it is weird sounding but all of my timing matches up. That first one might have sounded weird due to an 11 volt battery so it was kind of weak

idahotuner · 04-01-2013, 01:28 PM

cody is spot on a lot of people think you use the dimples but its the dowels , on the cams. 10 and 12 with the dowels. tdc on piston 1

Danger_Dorn · 04-01-2013, 01:41 PM

Well i posted a video of it all on youtube, everything is exactly as cody said

e5s4y · 04-01-2013, 03:00 PM

what does a new compression test yield? also, idk if its just me, but is it cranking super slow?

godsmack · 04-01-2013, 05:48 PM

Did you stick a screw driver down cylinder 1 to make sure that you are at TDC? Could be 180 degrees out.

Danger_Dorn · 04-01-2013, 06:16 PM

Its at compression stroke TDC. The ecu was fried so i'm gonna get another one and see what happens. This is the 3rd ECU that fried lol. The first 2 came to me fried.

Danger_Dorn · 04-01-2013, 06:47 PM

So I have a stock redtop what ECU is best? Stock 62,63,e5,e6? Does it matter between these?

FourtyKid · 04-01-2013, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danger_Dorn

So I have a stock redtop what ECU is best? Stock 62,63,e5,e6? Does it matter between these?

E5 is from a 94-96 180sx black top 5 speed
E6 is from a 94-96 180sx blacktop automatic
"RED" WC is from a 95-96 S14 Silvia zenki
"BLACK" WC is from a 96-97 S14 Chuki (transition, different maf plug)
NA is from a 97-98 s14 Silvia kouki 5-speed
62 is from a 91-93 180sx or S13 Silvia 5 speed
63 is from a 91-93 180sx or S13 Silvia automatic
J4 is from a 97-98 180sx Type X 5speed
J5 is 97-98 Type-X Automatic

Also,

S14 Zenki SR20's with Red WC ECUs will have a Rectange MAF plug
S14 chuki sr20's with black WC ECUs will have the oval MAF plug,
S14 Kouki SR20's with black NA ECU will have oval maf plug
62, 63, E5, E6, are all interchangable and will run any 5-speed 91-96 SR20DET S13
J4 and J5 will plug into but will not work on the pre 97 S13 SR20DET's without moving about 6 wires at the ECU plug.
Red and black WC/WE Ecus for S14 sr20's are interchangable, just watch the maf plug difference.
S15 maf (oval plug) and S14 Oval Maf's are interchangable.
But black NA ECU has a smaller plug, and simply will not fit on the pre 97- S14 SR20DET harnesses.

Kriskouki · 04-01-2013, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danger_Dorn

So I have a stock redtop what ECU is best? Stock 62,63,e5,e6? Does it matter between these?

What you need to do is do more research.....As far as I know one ECU only matches with certain P/N of the MAF....For example, WC red ECU for s14 SR20DET can only be used with 69F00 MAF.....

So, I have no idea what's your P/N for the MAF, but it needs to be compatible with the ECU......

Lastly, it's not good at all that the ECU has been fried very often......The ECU lasts forever has long as nothing is wrong on the system....Once the problem has been solved and the ECU still got fried, an in-depth troubleshooting/analysis may be needed.....

Hope the problem solved very soon

codyace · 04-01-2013, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danger_Dorn

Well i posted a video of it all on youtube, everything is exactly as cody said

Your timing is spot on...in fact that should be linked to most new guys as it's a great video/description of how it should be setup

With that said, you're got no fuel on 3 cylinders. I'd look into the ECU's you are using as for them not to fire 3 of 4, you've probably got some injector drivers fried out. They are rebuildable/repairable (through the right person) so don't fret.

Danger_Dorn · 04-02-2013, 04:09 AM

Well I guess a mod should sticky a link to that video then. Anyway, I do in fact have fuel on all 4 cylinders I know cuz when i pulled the plugs out they were wet. I left them out so I dont wash out piston rings, thats how my KA went out. Im going to try a new 62 ecu and a new eccs relay. I was thinking about an AEM or Tomei or something like that you know? I was hoping to maybe find something more....sturdy (like a lobster). But once again I cant afford to break the bank so oem used looks like my main option.

Danger_Dorn · 04-03-2013, 11:12 AM

I have an s13 motor with a 52f00 maf. I was running an E5 ec before.

Danger_Dorn · 04-08-2013, 04:29 PM

So...did a compression test today. Found out cylinder 4 (one closest to the firewall?) was the only one with compression at about 100. The other cylinders had 0. Not sure whats going on. Cosworth Metal headgasket, Arp headstuds torqued to 90, copper tack spray on both sides of the HG. I dont know what else to do or if I should do a tear down and put new piston rings in...This is my DD and its already been down for like a month between waiting on parts and BS. Thanks

03-30-2013, 08:33 AM	#31
codyace Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poconos, PA Age: 39 Posts: 8,030 Trader Rating: (58) Feedback Score: 58 reviews	Sounds like you're not assembling the mechanical side of it right at all. - Set engine to TDC. THis is second mark from the left, or 0* with the first cylinder being up all the way too. - Make sure first cam lobes are facing completly opposite of each other (9 and 3) - Take out the tensioner -Locate the cam dowel pins. You want them at 10 and 12ish - Look at the little dots on the gears. This gives you the starting point/tooth 1 on both cams - Looking at the exhaust side, count the number of teeth on the gear between it and the head flange for valve cover. Between 8 and 9 teeth -Do the same on the intake. You're looking at between 4.5 to 5.5 teeth -Count the pins on the timing chain between both of the dots I mention above. 20 pins exactly. -Put tensioner back in, and crank engine over with a wratchet. Do this a few times and then bring back to TDC and reconfirm the alignment. Hope that helps. Install the CAS then after you sort the above. __________________ *Want Air Conditioning in your SR20 Swapped car? Check out www.sr20acbrackets.com for more information! Quest Alternator Conversions for SR20!* Check my Group Buy! Tired of lousy internal gates? Go external wastegate with one of my manifolds, Check out my group buy

03-30-2013, 08:35 AM	#32
codyace Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poconos, PA Age: 39 Posts: 8,030 Trader Rating: (58) Feedback Score: 58 reviews	I tried doing a quick google search for pictures if you're visual http://jimwolftechnology.com/wolfpdf...NSTFORSR20.PDF Installing Tomei Poncams on S13 SR20DET SR20 Setup Tips __________________ *Want Air Conditioning in your SR20 Swapped car? Check out www.sr20acbrackets.com for more information! Quest Alternator Conversions for SR20!* Check my Group Buy! Tired of lousy internal gates? Go external wastegate with one of my manifolds, Check out my group buy

03-30-2013, 11:01 AM	#34
Danger_Dorn Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Jacksonville NC Age: 32 Posts: 265 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Still something off...I got it to stumble finally like its firing on 1 cyl or something...still timing? Nothing could have possibly gone wrong electronic wise during the week of my head off. Everything is exactly like ^. Best I can get is one contant "Chug"? It feels like its still out of timing. Anything else I should try? Maybe moving teeth one way or the other with the cams? Last edited by Danger_Dorn; 03-30-2013 at 11:56 AM..

03-30-2013, 12:24 PM	#35
codyace Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poconos, PA Age: 39 Posts: 8,030 Trader Rating: (58) Feedback Score: 58 reviews	Loosen the distributor and crank it all the way in one direction (and try starting) and then the other way (and try starting it). You could be off a tooth for sure still, it's got to be precise With that said, your plugs aren't potentially fouled are they? __________________ *Want Air Conditioning in your SR20 Swapped car? Check out www.sr20acbrackets.com for more information! Quest Alternator Conversions for SR20!* Check my Group Buy! Tired of lousy internal gates? Go external wastegate with one of my manifolds, Check out my group buy

03-30-2013, 05:25 PM	#38
codyace Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poconos, PA Age: 39 Posts: 8,030 Trader Rating: (58) Feedback Score: 58 reviews	Is the injector/maf correct for the ECU? Are both wired up properly too? I'd start looking into troubleshooting other sensors now. __________________ *Want Air Conditioning in your SR20 Swapped car? Check out www.sr20acbrackets.com for more information! Quest Alternator Conversions for SR20!* Check my Group Buy! Tired of lousy internal gates? Go external wastegate with one of my manifolds, Check out my group buy

03-30-2013, 08:50 AM	#33
Danger_Dorn Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Jacksonville NC Age: 32 Posts: 265 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Thanks alot brother, Ill go follow your instructions and try again.

03-30-2013, 12:50 PM	#36
Danger_Dorn Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Jacksonville NC Age: 32 Posts: 265 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If the cam timing was off what are the chances of bent valves? I didnt hear anything crazy but the exhaust cam was off by one tooth. It should still start up though right?

03-30-2013, 01:17 PM	#37
Danger_Dorn Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Jacksonville NC Age: 32 Posts: 265 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Well its got a cas but yeah i have tried that. They are brand new plugs. I just cranks and i will be like wee wee wee blub wee wee blub blub It will keep trying to kinda fire on one cyl if I keep cranking it. If I let off the ignition it sometimes chokes at like 100 rpm then dies. Not sure what else to do other than hand it over to a shop.

03-30-2013, 05:55 PM	#39
ultimateirving Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: arizona Age: 36 Posts: 1,521 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	YOu can you check the ecu for codes? if it says anything is out of norm __________________ Z32 with lq4 swap Desert Street Scene \|\| Dssevents.com

03-30-2013, 06:19 PM	#40
Danger_Dorn Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Jacksonville NC Age: 32 Posts: 265 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	the maf was good before when it was running and I have no ecu codes. its gotta be timing still but I know its good. Ill post another video tomorrow of the timing components, grounds, cranking, and spark plugs

03-30-2013, 09:05 PM	#41
ultimateirving Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: arizona Age: 36 Posts: 1,521 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Try restabbing the cas maybe i dunno? __________________ Z32 with lq4 swap Desert Street Scene \|\| Dssevents.com

03-31-2013, 07:36 AM	#42
Danger_Dorn Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Jacksonville NC Age: 32 Posts: 265 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	This is so lame! I have stabbed the CAS many different ways. Is it possible that the Ignitor chip isnt giving a strong enough of a signal?

03-31-2013, 01:50 PM	#44
Danger_Dorn Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Jacksonville NC Age: 32 Posts: 265 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I did check for spark. I just posted a video to youtube of all my timing and spark. I was saying maybe their not getting enough spark

03-31-2013, 08:09 PM	#45
ultimateirving Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: arizona Age: 36 Posts: 1,521 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Did any water get on the coil packs ? __________________ Z32 with lq4 swap Desert Street Scene \|\| Dssevents.com

04-01-2013, 04:29 AM	#46
Danger_Dorn Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Jacksonville NC Age: 32 Posts: 265 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	here is a more detailed video of my timing and stuff... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B68diptqOH4

04-01-2013, 01:06 PM	#48
Danger_Dorn Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Jacksonville NC Age: 32 Posts: 265 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	There I set it to public. Yeah it is weird sounding but all of my timing matches up. That first one might have sounded weird due to an 11 volt battery so it was kind of weak

04-01-2013, 01:28 PM	#49
idahotuner Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: St. Maries, Idaho Age: 35 Posts: 1,276 Trader Rating: (17) Rides Gallery: idahotuner Feedback Score: 17 reviews	cody is spot on a lot of people think you use the dimples but its the dowels , on the cams. 10 and 12 with the dowels. tdc on piston 1 __________________ My Twin Scroll Gt30r Sr22det Build

04-01-2013, 01:41 PM	#50
Danger_Dorn Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Jacksonville NC Age: 32 Posts: 265 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Well i posted a video of it all on youtube, everything is exactly as cody said

04-01-2013, 03:00 PM	#51
e5s4y Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Jacksonville Age: 33 Posts: 340 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	what does a new compression test yield? also, idk if its just me, but is it cranking super slow? __________________ BustedS13: anything you can hide on your person is free. junkyard law.

04-01-2013, 05:48 PM	#52
godsmack Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Allentown, PA Age: 38 Posts: 652 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Did you stick a screw driver down cylinder 1 to make sure that you are at TDC? Could be 180 degrees out.

04-01-2013, 06:16 PM	#53
Danger_Dorn Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Jacksonville NC Age: 32 Posts: 265 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Its at compression stroke TDC. The ecu was fried so i'm gonna get another one and see what happens. This is the 3rd ECU that fried lol. The first 2 came to me fried.

04-01-2013, 06:47 PM	#54
Danger_Dorn Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Jacksonville NC Age: 32 Posts: 265 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	So I have a stock redtop what ECU is best? Stock 62,63,e5,e6? Does it matter between these?

04-02-2013, 04:09 AM	#58
Danger_Dorn Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Jacksonville NC Age: 32 Posts: 265 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Well I guess a mod should sticky a link to that video then. Anyway, I do in fact have fuel on all 4 cylinders I know cuz when i pulled the plugs out they were wet. I left them out so I dont wash out piston rings, thats how my KA went out. Im going to try a new 62 ecu and a new eccs relay. I was thinking about an AEM or Tomei or something like that you know? I was hoping to maybe find something more....sturdy (like a lobster). But once again I cant afford to break the bank so oem used looks like my main option.

04-03-2013, 11:12 AM	#59
Danger_Dorn Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Jacksonville NC Age: 32 Posts: 265 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I have an s13 motor with a 52f00 maf. I was running an E5 ec before.

04-08-2013, 04:29 PM	#60
Danger_Dorn Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Jacksonville NC Age: 32 Posts: 265 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	So...did a compression test today. Found out cylinder 4 (one closest to the firewall?) was the only one with compression at about 100. The other cylinders had 0. Not sure whats going on. Cosworth Metal headgasket, Arp headstuds torqued to 90, copper tack spray on both sides of the HG. I dont know what else to do or if I should do a tear down and put new piston rings in...This is my DD and its already been down for like a month between waiting on parts and BS. Thanks