General politics discussion. Keep it civil.

[Om1kron]

Originally Posted by Future240

Also. What the actual fuck? You?ve never voted in a presidential election claim to be apolitical yet toss around mostly right wing political views.

He's basically a model political california citizen. Newsome comes out of their mouths more than his mistress and they'll bark at their own shadow and when you challenge their logic or say why don't you go somewhere you feel at home since your state sucks so bad.

"oh well I didn't know I had to live somewhere I'm happy and everyone thinks like me?"

"How would I be productive and add to society by complaining about everything I give absolutely no input or influence to other than on message boards or the internet."

You know shit like that.

We love super opinionated people who just complain about everything and the best part is this one.

"Why would I even bother voting I'm not going to get the candidate I want, the law passsed that I want, the lower gas prices I want, the homeless to magically disappear, meanwhile my business is drowning due to inflation I have no say on, etc etc etc."

[Phlip]

So can we all agree that this deluge of Clarence Thomas lawlessness is what we need to start pushing for term limits in the Supreme Court?

[deolio]

Originally Posted by Phlip

So can we all agree that this deluge of Clarence Thomas lawlessness is what we need to start pushing for term limits in the Supreme Court?

I mean they should do that anyway. Average life expectancy isn?t 36 like it was when the constitution was written anymore. Just seems lazy to give people life terms at this point.

[Phlip]

Interesting to see how fucked Desantis is about to be in the first amendment lawsuit Disney has presented.

[brndck]

Originally Posted by Phlip

So can we all agree that this deluge of Clarence Thomas lawlessness is what we need to start pushing for term limits in the Supreme Court?

long overdue. Honestly he should be removed from the bench. His wife should be prosecuted for her role in attempting to subvert an election as well.

Originally Posted by deolio

I mean they should do that anyway. Average life expectancy isn?t 36 like it was when the constitution was written anymore. Just seems lazy to give people life terms at this point.

kinda OT, but term limits in politics in general, should be standard. No one should be a lifetime politician, even the ones i like.

Originally Posted by Phlip

Interesting to see how fucked Desantis is about to be in the first amendment lawsuit Disney has presented.

man i'm not one to simp for Disney, but i'll gladly watch Desantis get bent over by their army of lawyers. Dude loves to bite the hand that feeds, and then wonder how it happened.

[deolio]

Originally Posted by brndck

kinda OT, but term limits in politics in general, should be standard. No one should be a lifetime politician, even the ones i like.

Facts. At least as being in an actual position of real power goes. Local government (mayor down), who cares lol

[AKADriver]

Man, those local people can make your life a living hell and can be HARD to remove if they're popular because most people just vote for familiar names in local elections if they vote at all. DC local/city government is full of powertripping assholes! For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_E....,_politician)

This guy, he was on the DC council for 29 years before being forced out in a scandal. He was notorious for being the kind of guy who threw his title around to do whatever the hell he wanted, including petty shit like, just parking on the sidewalk wherever he wanted haha. But he was impossible to remove electorally because he was popular with the right people.

[Future240]

2024 so far is shaping up to be quite the snooze fest.

So far Trump and Biden again is what it seems like. Two 80 year old men vying to lead the country. yay

Larry Elder (R), a talk radio host and 2021 California gubernatorial candidate, announced his candidacy on April 20, 2023.[4]
Nikki Haley (R), former U.N. Ambassador and South Carolina Governor, announced she would run on February 14, 2023.[12]
Asa Hutchinson (R), former Arkansas Governor, announced he would run on April 2, 2023.[8]
Vivek Ramaswamy (R), entrepreneur and political commentator, announced his campaign on February 21, 2023.[11]
Corey Stapleton (R), former Montana Secretary of State, announced he would run on November 11, 2022.[15]
Donald Trump (R), former U.S. President, announced he would run on November 15, 2022.[14]


Joe Biden (D), incumbent president of the United States, announced he would run for re-election on April 25, 2023.[3]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (D), a lawyer and author, announced he would run on April 5, 2023.[7]
Marianne Williamson (D), 2020 presidential candidate and author, announced she would run on February 23, 2023.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by Future240

2024 so far is shaping up to be quite the snooze fest.

So far Trump and Biden again is what it seems like. Two 80 year old men vying to lead the country. yay

Larry Elder (R), a talk radio host and 2021 California gubernatorial candidate, announced his candidacy on April 20, 2023.[4]
Nikki Haley (R), former U.N. Ambassador and South Carolina Governor, announced she would run on February 14, 2023.[12]
Asa Hutchinson (R), former Arkansas Governor, announced he would run on April 2, 2023.[8]
Vivek Ramaswamy (R), entrepreneur and political commentator, announced his campaign on February 21, 2023.[11]
Corey Stapleton (R), former Montana Secretary of State, announced he would run on November 11, 2022.[15]
Donald Trump (R), former U.S. President, announced he would run on November 15, 2022.[14]


Joe Biden (D), incumbent president of the United States, announced he would run for re-election on April 25, 2023.[3]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (D), a lawyer and author, announced he would run on April 5, 2023.[7]
Marianne Williamson (D), 2020 presidential candidate and author, announced she would run on February 23, 2023.

This whole shit needs to be blown up

[KA24DESOneThree]

How do you fix something as fundamentally broken as the United States?

You can't fix a spun rod bearing while the engine's running, but stopping the engine may kill those who are most needy.

[nick_d_240sx]

Tell us how the US is 'fundamentally broken'.

It's the best country on the planet.

[Future240]

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates...ic-republican/


Also, no surpsie here
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...l/70192303007/

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by nick_d_240sx

Tell us how the US is 'fundamentally broken'.

It's the best country on the planet.

It's the best land on the planet, but not the best country on the planet. I'd never want to live full-time anywhere else, but...

have you dealt with the legal system recently?

have you dealt with the healthcare system recently?

have you seen the cost per capita for US healthcare compared to other countries?

have you tried to get mental health care recently?

have you been in poverty recently?

have you been following water issues in the Southwest?

are you aware that those water issues are creating a potential issue with food insecurity and cost, which is a national security issue that almost no one is talking about?

are you aware how many people die in automobile accidents?

are you aware how many people get unnecessary amputations in the South?

are you aware how many waterways are so polluted that you should eat very few to zero fish from them?

do you know how many meaningful bills are passed each year?

do you know how big the pay gap is between employees and CEO?

have you seen how absolutely fucked our transportation infrastructure is?

have you seen how many pages the IRS tax code requires?

have you seen how wasteful the military is?

are you aware of the lack of Supreme Court oversight?

This is one of the absolute biggest differences between conservatives and progressives- conservatives bristle when anyone says "the United States has problems" and respond with, "it's the best country on the planet, if you don't like it, you should leave," and progressives respond with, "yes, and we should make the United States better."

[deolio]

Thoughts on the Restoring Faith in Government Act?

Will it actually go through? TBH it seems insane to me that this hasn't already been a thing.

[feito]

lol, only real problem i see there is healthcare. having to pay 10k without insurance for a few stitches on your head is a real joke, we gotta make that shit affordable, not free.
and that was pretty much half the point of that ^ guy.
the rest of that is beautiful good old capitalism and todays lazy gens. If only they put as much effort into working as they do with protesting for junkies and looting stores, maybe the other half of that guys^ list wouldnt sound as bad
btw, how are them 1.5m reparations going in CA ah?
"reparation task force"rotflmfao xD

[nick_d_240sx]

I'll try to answer these honestly but your questions are loose, vague and I assume you already have made up your mind on the topics.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

It's the best land on the planet, but not the best country on the planet. I'd never want to live full-time anywhere else, but...

I'd never want to live full-time anywhere else either.

have you dealt with the legal system recently?

You have a right to a trial and the right to be judged by your peers based on the evidence with the assertion that you're innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Do the crime, do the time. I support capital punishment.

have you dealt with the healthcare system recently?

I am vaccinated for tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis. I had a liver issue a few years ago, but it was pretty decent care and service, not that they actually diagnosed the issue. Doctors have done good stitches and a cast for me in the past. Both of my children were born at a hospital and are alive today.

have you seen the cost per capita for US healthcare compared to other countries?

"The majority of America?s healthcare spending was paid for by the federal government (29.0%), followed closely by households (28.4%) in 2019."

have you tried to get mental health care recently?

I thought about it, but decided to take my own path.

have you been in poverty recently?

I have never been on welfare as an adult, but there are lots of safety nets, welfare benefits and programs that can help making ends meet for poor people.

have you been following water issues in the Southwest?

No.

are you aware that those water issues are creating a potential issue with food insecurity and cost, which is a national security issue that almost no one is talking about?

Need sources.

are you aware how many people die in automobile accidents?

Are you aware how many people are dying from fentanyl and gang crime?

are you aware how many people get unnecessary amputations in the South?

LoL, that's weird.

are you aware how many waterways are so polluted that you should eat very few to zero fish from them?

"In China, almost 60% of underground water, 30% of rivers and 19% of cultivated soil are so polluted that they are deemed dangerous to humans. One out of seven people in China, or about 190 million people, drink contaminated water. The soil contains chemicals like mercury, lead and arsenic."

do you know how many meaningful bills are passed each year?

"Nebraska became the 27th state in the nation to enshrine in law the right of its residents to carry concealed firearms without a permit."

do you know how big the pay gap is between employees and CEO?

CEOs should make more money than their lowest skilled employee.
Become your own CEO or do you support communism?

have you seen how absolutely fucked our transportation infrastructure is?

Absolutely fucked, eh, not really, but it certainly could use more investment. Bring back chain gangs and the Civilian Conservation Corps.

have you seen how many pages the IRS tax code requires?

Do you support a flat tax? I agree, we should simplify the tax code.

have you seen how wasteful the military is?

What part of the government doesn't spend wastefully?

are you aware of the lack of Supreme Court oversight?

LoL. Are you aware of congressmen and politicians that have amassed wealth whilst serving in office?

This is one of the absolute biggest differences between conservatives and progressives- conservatives bristle when anyone says "the United States has problems" and respond with, "it's the best country on the planet, if you don't like it, you should leave," and progressives respond with, "yes, and we should make the United States better."

"Make America Great Again."

'Progressives' said they were going to move to Canada if Trump was elected. Why wouldn't they want to move to Mexico? The weather is nicer there.

When compared to all the countries on this planet, I choose the USA (I was born in the beautiful Pacific Northwest so I may be biased..) It's not that there aren't other places that are nice and it's not that we don't have problems/issues but, there's a fundamental difference in what we believe we need to do to fix the problems, how we can solve the issues or what is important to us.
Not really fuck all you can do about it anyway. I'll just continue to vote for candidates that I believe align with my views and that 'say' they'll address the issues that are important to me.

Have a good one!

Trump CNN town hall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvWFnkJ6s40

[deolio]

Originally Posted by nick_d_240sx

Are you aware how many people are dying from fentanyl and gang crime?

Originally Posted by nick_d_240sx

"Nebraska became the 27th state in the nation to enshrine in law the right of its residents to carry concealed firearms without a permit."

LMAO I'm sure that'll work out great!

Originally Posted by nick_d_240sx

CEOs should make more money than their lowest skilled employee.
Become your own CEO or do you support communism?

Should they though? Do they do 400% more work to make up the 400% wage gap? Do they have 400% more knowledge? 400% more skill?

You know this time when America was "great," that they refer to was? The 1950's or some shit right? Back then the CEO to worker wage ratio was 20:1. Now it's supposedly as much as 350:1. That's fucking insane. That's where the middle class has gone - into the pocket of fortune 500 CEO's. You want America to be great again? Make that middle class nice and fat. People being able to live comfortably and afford a home while working an "average" job is far better for the economy than having to pick up a side hustle just to afford rent.

Unchecked greed is just as dangerous as communism and at this point the latter is far less of a threat. Pick your poison.

[Dutchmalmiss]

Originally Posted by deolio

Unchecked greed is just as dangerous as communism and at this point the latter is far less of a threat. Pick your poison.

That's a good point though. How DO you check greed? Positions that high up seem to be above everything, including the law, nowadays.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by deolio

LMAO I'm sure that'll work out great!



Should they though? Do they do 400% more work to make up the 400% wage gap? Do they have 400% more knowledge? 400% more skill?

You know this time when America was "great," that they refer to was? The 1950's or some shit right? Back then the CEO to worker wage ratio was 20:1. Now it's supposedly as much as 350:1. That's fucking insane. That's where the middle class has gone - into the pocket of fortune 500 CEO's. You want America to be great again? Make that middle class nice and fat. People being able to live comfortably and afford a home while working an "average" job is far better for the economy than having to pick up a side hustle just to afford rent.

Unchecked greed is just as dangerous as communism and at this point the latter is far less of a threat. Pick your poison.

unchecked greed? who made you the social police? do you have any skills of value, or are you just a chump who complains about being a have-not. you might want to reconsider your surroundings and move out of that parasitic state that promotes joblessness, crime and drugs.... and pushes overvalued homes. unless your dream is a $500k house in compton or watts.

no one owes you shit.

[deolio]

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

That's a good point though. How DO you check greed? Positions that high up seem to be above everything, including the law, nowadays.

Honestly not sure. I don't think it's something that should be legally required, just a social shift away from praising the Forbes 50 richest people. Let's see the CEO's creating success by building the most productive teams and best company cultures instead. Lemme see that top tier Glassdoor rating lol

Originally Posted by ixfxi

unchecked greed? who made you the social police? do you have any skills of value, or are you just a chump who complains about being a have-not. you might want to reconsider your surroundings and move out of that parasitic state that promotes joblessness, crime and drugs.... and pushes overvalued homes. unless your dream is a $500k house in compton or watts.

no one owes you shit.

So you're saying you don't want a thriving economy? You'd rather sit on your high horse and complain about homelessness and government handouts than see a little equality because you're terrified of having a single socially-conscious (at risk of sounding communist) thought.

Nope, society is black and white, rich and poor, have and have-nots, snowflakes or republicans, any in-between is communism.

What a sad, dark, little life you live.

[dizzariot]

Originally Posted by deolio

Nope, society is black and white, rich and poor, have and have-nots, snowflakes or republicans, any in-between is communism.

No, it's the 'go-getters' and the 'blame-everything-else-ers'.


This argument of 'rich vs poor' is so corny. You assume everyone is just born into wealth or prosperity when in reality it's people that came from very little that simply want to keep more of what they worked for. Why should we have to pay for the people that complained while we did something about it?

I get it: compassion for others...but why would I be compassionate about someone that has a work ethic unlike mine and is content with waking up at 1000, bitching about unfairness on social media by 1200, at a low-level job until 2000, and out at the bars until 0200 spending the little money they have while waxing poetic about revolution to anyone that would listen?

Meanwhile, I'm up by 0530, at work for 8-9hrs, then home and ready to do the same thing 5 days a week. Honestly man why in the FUCK would I care about someone not helping themselves.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by nick_d_240sx

You have a right to a trial and the right to be judged by your peers based on the evidence with the assertion that you're innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Do the crime, do the time. I support capital punishment.

You have the right to a speedy trial. I'd recommend that you research how "speedy" trials currently are- you might be surprised.

My wife and I were involved in a civil suit that was filed against her father, who was part of our business. Without saying too much, we drained all of our savings fighting a wealthy opponent who could afford constant legal bullshit- despite us having a solid case. It's neither fair nor just to have a system that is pay-to-play.

I am vaccinated for tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis. I had a liver issue a few years ago, but it was pretty decent care and service, not that they actually diagnosed the issue. Doctors have done good stitches and a cast for me in the past. Both of my children were born at a hospital and are alive today.

So no, not recently.

"The majority of America?s healthcare spending was paid for by the federal government (29.0%), followed closely by households (28.4%) in 2019."

So no.

I thought about it, but decided to take my own path.

So no.

I have never been on welfare as an adult, but there are lots of safety nets, welfare benefits and programs that can help making ends meet for poor people.

So no.

Need sources.

Ay papi, I can provide those- and they're all left-leaning so I can further my agenda because I am literally a terrible human being intent on lying about my country. https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...lifornia-farms and https://www.newsweek.com/how-colorad...supply-1734249 and https://www.propublica.org/article/c...ay-famiglietti and https://www.forbes.com/sites/phillem...h=3602708f1f8e

Are you aware how many people are dying from fentanyl and gang crime?

Is that a no? It's certainly whataboutism, although I would argue that fentanyl is a public health crisis just as automobile accidents are. They, just like gang crime, are indicative of a broken system. Each problem has roots, and the roots need to be addressed... but no one wants to address the roots. They want to make laws to make illegal things more illegal, something that sure doesn't seem to have the effect they think it does.

LoL, that's weird.

It's not weird, it's an indicator of a broken system. A good healthcare system solves problems before amputation is required.

"In China, almost 60% of underground water, 30% of rivers and 19% of cultivated soil are so polluted that they are deemed dangerous to humans. One out of seven people in China, or about 190 million people, drink contaminated water. The soil contains chemicals like mercury, lead and arsenic."

I can't tell if this is a whataboutism or if you're comparing the United States to China like an unpatriot. Here's something about American waterways: https://thehill.com/policy/equilibri...lution-report/

"Nebraska became the 27th state in the nation to enshrine in law the right of its residents to carry concealed firearms without a permit."

That is meaningful to the extremely small number of people who need a firearm for self-defense but who cannot go through the classes necessary to obtain a permit due to time constraints or poverty.

Otherwise, it means less than a fart in a windstorm.

CEOs should make more money than their lowest skilled employee.
Become your own CEO or do you support communism?

I am my own CEO. I make less than three times as much as my lowest-paid employee.

Absolutely fucked, eh, not really, but it certainly could use more investment. Bring back chain gangs and the Civilian Conservation Corps.

Civilian Conservation Corps? Wasn't that a New Deal work relief program? I'm for it, but I feel that increasing the size of government isn't really what your fellow believers would want.

Do you support a flat tax? I agree, we should simplify the tax code.

A flat tax is regressive. The goal is to remove shackles from the poor and allow them to rise, and a flat tax is a shackle. We want less welfare, right?

What part of the government doesn't spend wastefully?

The Forest Service and Park Service both underpay and overdeliver.

LoL. Are you aware of congressmen and politicians that have amassed wealth whilst serving in office?

Whataboutism.

"Make America Great Again."

By... what, exactly? Half-measures built on half-truths as Trump trumpeted?

'Progressives' said they were going to move to Canada if Trump was elected. Why wouldn't they want to move to Mexico? The weather is nicer there.

In 1985, Phil Collins released "Sussudio" on "No Jacket Required." It was based on a word that had no meaning whatsoever, kinda like the above sentences.

When compared to all the countries on this planet, I choose the USA (I was born in the beautiful Pacific Northwest so I may be biased..) It's not that there aren't other places that are nice and it's not that we don't have problems/issues but, there's a fundamental difference in what we believe we need to do to fix the problems, how we can solve the issues or what is important to us.
Not really fuck all you can do about it anyway. I'll just continue to vote for candidates that I believe align with my views and that 'say' they'll address the issues that are important to me.

The problem is that we can fix this if we work for it. Instead, we're just going to continue to "vote for candidates that we believe align with our views" because there's "not really fuck all you can do about it anyway."

[brndck]

Originally Posted by dizzariot

Meanwhile, I'm up by 0530, at work for 8-9hrs, then home and ready to do the same thing 5 days a week. Honestly man why in the FUCK would I care about someone not helping themselves.

because YOU are the example. You should be able to afford a home, new car, wife and kids, pay for their college, and retire with a pension, in exchange for that 40hr work week.
(yes i know you're in japan)

those days are gone. Currently, 40hrs isn't enough to cover rent, and the solution "just move to the middle of nowhere" isnt a solution at all. its a cop out.

[deolio]

Originally Posted by brndck

because YOU are the example. You should be able to afford a home, new car, wife and kids, pay for their college, and retire with a pension, in exchange for that 40hr work week.
(yes i know you're in japan)

those days are gone. Currently, 40hrs isn't enough to cover rent, and the solution "just move to the middle of nowhere" isnt a solution at all. its a cop out.

This

Society has been so indoctrinated that now they think only those who work 60 hour weeks in upper management or the c-suite deserve to enjoy financial freedom and those who enjoy having good work/life balance while working a middle-management job, which used to be enough to buy a house and support a family, are lazy snowflake losers just looking for a handout.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by deolio

Nope, society is black and white, rich and poor, have and have-nots, snowflakes or republicans, any in-between is communism.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

I am my own CEO. I make less than three times as much as my lowest-paid employee.

^ dumb and dumber on zilvia, folks..

back in the day on this very same forum, we used to rag on floridians but damn, yawl flipped the script and californians are stuck-on-stupid, straight S.O.S.

[deolio]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

^ dumb and dumber on zilvia, folks..

back in the day on this very same forum, we used to rag on floridians but damn, yawl flipped the script and californians are stuck-on-stupid, straight S.O.S.

Glad to see you've resorted to Statler and Waldorf tactics instead of reciting more Fox News talking points.

[dizzariot]

Originally Posted by brndck

because YOU are the example. You should be able to afford a home, new car, wife and kids, pay for their college, and retire with a pension, in exchange for that 40hr work week.
(yes i know you're in japan)

those days are gone. Currently, 40hrs isn't enough to cover rent, and the solution "just move to the middle of nowhere" isnt a solution at all. its a cop out.

40hrs at what hourly rate? 40hrs is totally enough if you worked hard enough in your early life to net skills that pay more per hour...or if you gave up your mid-twenties to join the military like I did. I am not advocating for service, but the theme of 'give to get' is what I am trying to convey.

It seems like (and tell me if I am wrong) you are saying that people who barely get out of high school, have no marketable skills, and work at WalMart as overnight stockers should be able to afford a 4 bedroom home in CA. That's apartment-in-a-not-so-nice-neighborhood money at absolute best.

Moving to the middle of nowhere is another one I love to hear. No one is saying to move to the middle of nowhere, but as Californians that's what it FEELS like to think about leaving our glorious mecca. No one is saying move to the middle of nowhere, we are saying that you should leave CA. My family finally did and they seem to enjoy life more.

Originally Posted by deolio

This

Society has been so indoctrinated that now they think only those who work 60 hour weeks in upper management or the c-suite deserve to enjoy financial freedom and those who enjoy having good work/life balance while working a middle-management job, which used to be enough to buy a house and support a family, are lazy snowflake losers just looking for a handout.

What is a good work-life balance to you? Why are you always looking at the upper management guy's plate without looking at the cost to get there? At minimum a 4yr degree from college with college debt, missing out on social events to study for exams during that time period, and they will probably STILL tell you they think college is a racket, too. The difference is they played the game so the don't have to live in squalor.

I will never scoff at someone that has worked their way up from the entry-level job to 'middle-management but I will always understand that the supervisor with the college degree makes more.


If you want to keep talking about the 'rich daddy got me a job' cases, I will always agree with you...but in my life experience I have always been paid less than someone who actually took the time to get a degree.

[deolio]

Originally Posted by dizzariot

Why are you always looking at the upper management guy's plate without looking at the cost to get there? At minimum a 4yr degree from college with college debt, missing out on social events to study for exams during that time period, and they will probably STILL tell you they think college is a racket, too. The difference is they played the game so the don't have to live in squalor.

My comments are really less about the c-suite being paid too much and more about the rest of the employees being paid too little. Trickle-down economics don't work - a thriving middle class does. The founding fathers knew this and built America around the middle-class, in an effort to prevent great economic inequality, which always results in violence and revolution. When the middle class can no longer afford housing, healthcare, and higher education, America is fucked. And it seems we're rapidly approaching that point...

For the record, I have my BS, own my own business, and am comfortably middle-class. I'm not looking at anyone else's plate and wishing I had more. If I want more, I can get more, but not spending 1/3 of my life staring at a screen is far more appealing, and allows me to be highly productive for the hours I do spend working. I just think my situation should be the norm (not the exception), and if it were, we'd see less burnout, depression, homelessness, violence, drug usage, and fewer people asking for handouts.

[brndck]

Originally Posted by dizzariot

40hrs at what hourly rate? 40hrs is totally enough if you worked hard enough in your early life to net skills that pay more per hour...or if you gave up your mid-twenties to join the military like I did. I am not advocating for service, but the theme of 'give to get' is what I am trying to convey.

It seems like (and tell me if I am wrong) you are saying that people who barely get out of high school, have no marketable skills, and work at WalMart as overnight stockers should be able to afford a 4 bedroom home in CA. That's apartment-in-a-not-so-nice-neighborhood money at absolute best.

Moving to the middle of nowhere is another one I love to hear. No one is saying to move to the middle of nowhere, but as Californians that's what it FEELS like to think about leaving our glorious mecca. No one is saying move to the middle of nowhere, we are saying that you should leave CA. My family finally did and they seem to enjoy life more.



What is a good work-life balance to you? Why are you always looking at the upper management guy's plate without looking at the cost to get there? At minimum a 4yr degree from college with college debt, missing out on social events to study for exams during that time period, and they will probably STILL tell you they think college is a racket, too. The difference is they played the game so the don't have to live in squalor.

I will never scoff at someone that has worked their way up from the entry-level job to 'middle-management but I will always understand that the supervisor with the college degree makes more.

If you want to keep talking about the 'rich daddy got me a job' cases, I will always agree with you...but in my life experience I have always been paid less than someone who actually took the time to get a degree.

1: 40 hrs at ANY rate. Literally minimum wage is by definition supposed to be "It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By 'business' I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white-collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living."
-FDR, the dude who implemented min wage in the USA.

Interpret that how you will, but its not hard to see that a working mans salary in mid 80s was enough to PURCHASE a home, now it takes 3 of those salaries just to afford rent. In the 70s, those wages went even farther towards affording a comfortable living. Instead we've stripped those wages and funneled the profits all the way to the top, hoarding wealth, hoarding resources.
This current generation is the first in american history to be LESS well off than the one preceding it.

2: i see it posted regularly, the "why don't you just leave" argument. I'm not trying to put words in YOUR mouth, but its still thrown around as a talking point.

3: my personal work / life balance is fantastic. I put my 40-50 hrs a week in and then go home and work on car shit for another 20-30, but thats my hobby as well as my side hustle. Should EVERY person have to? Nah. We shouldn't have to manage the equivalent of two full time jobs just to cover the BASICS.

I'm not sure why americans are so hung up on this idea that "oh i'm better because i work 90 hrs this week, with zero days vacation this year, i'm so tough". Plenty of other nations look at us in shock for things like this.

4: what are your thoughts on the entry level positions that require college degrees, for barely entry level wages? How many thousands of college grads are there who aint making middle management wages but still made the same sacrifices and have the same debt?

[dizzariot]

Originally Posted by deolio

For the record, I have my BS, own my own business, and am comfortably middle-class. I'm not looking at anyone else's plate and wishing I had more. If I want more, I can get more, but not spending 1/3 of my life staring at a screen is far more appealing, and allows me to be highly productive for the hours I do spend working. I just think my situation should be the norm (not the exception), and if it were, we'd see less burnout, depression, homelessness, violence, drug usage, and fewer people asking for handouts.

How much did you have to 'give' to get where you are for the 'norm' you are at? My issue is with the people that don't even meet the prerequisites for the 'norm' you are referencing.

Originally Posted by brndck

1. Interpret that how you will, but its not hard to see that a working mans salary in mid 80s was enough to PURCHASE a home, now it takes 3 of those salaries just to afford rent. In the 70s, those wages went even farther towards affording a comfortable living. Instead we've stripped those wages and funneled the profits all the way to the top, hoarding wealth, hoarding resources.

2. I'm not trying to put words in YOUR mouth, but its still thrown around as a talking point.

3. My personal work / life balance is fantastic. I put my 40-50 hrs a week...

3a. I'm not sure why americans are so hung up on this idea that "oh i'm better because i work 90 hrs this week, with zero days vacation this year, i'm so tough". Plenty of other nations look at us in shock for things like this.

4. What are your thoughts on the entry level positions that require college degrees, for barely entry level wages? How many thousands of college grads are there who aint making middle management wages but still made the same sacrifices and have the same debt?

1. Agree, but you have to keep the lights on while you fight the fight. People forget this step.

2. Ty, but mounting these arguments from CA is still silly to me. I miss things about CA now but I am not going to return (if I can help it) anytime soon.

3. How would you fair at only the 40-50hrs? What skills do you have for this main source of income?
3a. Yep. I am not advocating for OVER 40hrs a week. If I had it my way, I would work 4 10hrs shifts and have a three-day weekend every week.

4. I guess I would counter with: what are these degrees in?

I'll supplement it that question by saying that I do not think a degree should arbitrarily be required to 'show commitment' for a job. A degree should be required if it pertains to the field you are working in (finance for a bank, information systems tech for IT, etc.) and that's that.

I wanted to be a Marine Biologist as a kid. After that, I got into cars. I'm sure it's just my self-esteem, but I assumed I would never be creative enough to prosper in automotive design so at some point I chose to join the military. My parents never pushed me to be a 'drone' but I also didn't want to have to worry about money...so I chose a career path that would accomplish that.

...and I would expect someone that has a degree in the Arts to know that they will be on a high school teacher's salary at best.

I am truly happy/envious for people that currently have the 'perfect balance' with their work and play...but I have no pity for those that want to put in minimal effort for non-skilled job while wondering why they can't afford to play.