Japanese Drifting Vs. American Drifting

[Wake]

Originally Posted by FantasticVoyages

Steve Kinsler is a good driver. But what he does is so different to drifting.

What America prefers to see vs. what Japan wants to see will be different. Hence why the judging is different.

BUT. If you put the best US drivers against the best Japanese drivers up where drifting supposedly started on the mountain roads in the same cars??

I have no bias but I would put my money Japan. Whatever reason that is the fact.

Ok but are we talking about putting Kazama up against gitten? Or D1SL drivers like nakamura? IMO even nakamura would shit on Gittin in the same (average) powered cars on a touge. But if you put them in high Hp/Tq cars on a course like road atlanta, then I would give it to Gittin because thats what we have adjusted to.
As that miata video shows, drivers like Kazama are just too experienced and have too many year under their belts for them to even consider our top drivers competitive. You have to realize we are talking about 5 years of experience against 15 years. I mean lookk at Tsuchiya and Kazama just laugh at Gushi and Millen. its a fucking joke to them

In my opinion our best drivers are only as good (technically) as Japans mediocre drivers. As the miata video shows, Americas solution to drifting is throwing power at it instead of learning to become a better driver and mor situation adept.

Now fast forward to 2011
I still see the pros in the same light, with the exception of a few like Forsberg, Foust,and some naturals like Matt Powers, and Streeter. But honesltly most of the best (technical) drifters I know have no desire to go pro.

So the real question IMO is who has more technique and style?
And I would say that at a street/DD level we are almost equal to Japan at this point. Im not talking about average 240 owners here compared to average silvia owners there because its obviously easier for them to get started seeing that they get turbos and diffs from the factory. But I am talking more specifically about comparing Similarly powered/built cars with drivers that have had about the same seat time. I mean Pink godzira and VRT alone have had some member that could have gone to Japan and been competitive.
Ill put it this way, I would trust Eric or Brian behind the weel of my car just as much as I would any D1SL driver.

Originally Posted by vq35hrNismo

Aight man. You cant mistake "smooth motor" from the Z from the chassis it self dampening most of the shock through bushings and such. V6 motors ARE IN FACT naturally unbalanced due to the length of the Crank. The KA is a motor where nissan didn't bother shipping the crank out to fine balance like they did with the RB and SR motors. WHY!? its a N/A. Same goes to a VQ. A lot of money and effort goes into balancing your rotating assembly that due to the change in times economy and emissions Nissan didn't make the VQ motor that special. IMO the VQ feels like a truck motor/eco motor. Its hits torque early in the RPM band like i would want my truck to do. The VQ drops enough near redline where the torque matches that of the SR.

but like dude..you holding your drift at 2k rpm? you entering the corner at 25-30mph? id then understand why you want more torque. Im not the best driver but i sure as hell spin out more in my Z than i do in my 240 wid the rb25. My prefrence is id want a little less torque down low and match it up higher.

Torque isn't the main factor in drifting. Its an excuse ive seen people make to make up for their sloppy entrances/lines. Yes torque helps create momentum. but its actually an application of velocity.

IMO if someone wanted more torque they didn't want to drift better. they wanted to throw more smoke up. Which is opinion of america vs japan. More smoke is more baller

OK OK OK Enough with the opinionated VQ talk. Everyone is being assholes and this thread is starting to stink.
Are you saying america or japan likes smoke more? because if you have ever seen nomuken drift all he cqres about is smoke. I think each driver has his own style which is what contributes to there being such a worldwide love of drifting. I personally wpuld rather be the guy in the underpowered car keeping up with the big power guys because Im a more sound technical driver and therefore have more skill and can do it with less power. Providing me with the opportunity to adapt to all tracks, conditions, and power levels. As you see kazama do regularly.















still pwning pages on the DL

[vq35hrNismo]

Originally Posted by WakeBHR

For somebody that has VQ in their screenname you sure dont know much about em.


Looks like it was used in plenty of performance apps to me.


Seriously tho this is waaaaaaay off topic. This thread is about american drifting skill vs japanese.

And Im pretty sure all the major point have been discussed. And fottnoted by me if you look through the thread. so please just take your un-informed, opinionated, thread shitting, to another thread.

Those arn't performance applications. Thats Nissan taking a motor they already have an using it in different vehicles. since when was a presage, maxima, bassara, altima, fx, qx, steaga...etc ever a performance car? a freaking minivan? suv? The VQ has always been a economy motor that nissan boasted as performance to make sells. yah ok the vq30dett used in their JGTC car is cool. But you wont be seeing that on the street. Where do you get that block? that head? Its crank, rods, pistons, its cams, valves..etc its not a regular VQ.

[vq35hrNismo]

I know its off topic. but dude dont put the VQ on a freaking pedestal because your putting one in your s-chasis. I have a freaking rb-25. Idiots bow down to it like its some king motor. IT FEELS SLOW AS FUCK. but i still love it more than my nismo. I cant even compare it to the VQ motor which yes, is faster than my rb atm.

[Wake]

Uh what?

I have KA24DE now and 2 SR's Im building (1 NA/1 turbo). When did anyone say anything about them getting a VQ?

What does that have to do with the fact that regardless of what you think the VQ was intend for or touted as, it is used in many performance apps regardless of configuration and when combined with a S-chassis it can be a potent performer for drifting. And that was my sole point about the VQ.
NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THE VQ!!!

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by vq35hrNismo

I know its off topic. but dude dont put the VQ on a freaking pedestal because your putting one in your s-chasis. I have a freaking rb-25. Idiots bow down to it like its some king motor. IT FEELS SLOW AS FUCK. but i still love it more than my nismo. I cant even compare it to the VQ motor which yes, is faster than my rb atm.

You know what? first off I think you are VQZ33 under another screen name, funny you both Z's and S chassis and the same join date. Either that or you're his roommate and are trolling for him.
Now before you go off on the whole RB thing. Maybe if you had researched who you were talking to you would realize. I fucking owned and ran a RB car. LOL I know all about RB's oh and I do like them.
Its not about putting the engine on a pedestal its about recognizing a good light weight engine when I see one.
Now I have said this discussion of engines has taken it off topic. I even did not respond to some of your earlier comments because of that.

Please just shut the fuck up. Even I admitted I had gone a bit far in the engine discussion. You are just dragging it out. Its a subject for another topic.

[FantasticVoyages]

Originally Posted by WakeBHR

Ok but are we talking about putting Kazama up against gitten? Or D1SL drivers like nakamura?

still pwning pages on the DL

I didn't read everything you said, but I think I agree with you.

It all boils down to what drifting is defined as, what are the things that make up a perfect pass.

If what the US got from Japan IS what drifting is about then they are clearly better. But which is more fun to watch? Japan or US?

[Pure_JDM]

5 pages and it isn't locked yet? I'm surprised.

[silsx13]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

The point is this Steve Kinser can drive, give him the car and a bit of practice and I bet he could link a course.

As far as what happened after Pearl Harbor a lot of things. LOL that is topic for a whole other thread that would wind up in Loud Noises.

The engine thing is partly a personal preference and it also varies from VQ to VQ depending on the displacement and model.

This is all that needs to be said about it at this point as it again is topic for another discussion, like I told VQZ33.

Oh and I am chill. I actually enjoy good back and forth discussions. Which is why I let myself go farther than perhaps I should have here. I.E. responding to mr 33's statements because I felt I had too.

WOW, when did this thread become an Engine-discussion/debate one?

OK to get back on topic and because no one has done this yet plus to edumucate those who don't know him, here's a lil clip on Mr. Steve Kinser:


YouTube - Steve Kinser on SPEED during World of Outlaws races


Different racing discipline yes but I think its all relative....

[Perfect Balance]

Originally Posted by WakeBHR

you realize your talking about people hauling ass at the fastest track in japan and possibly the world? Right?

I almost want to assume this was sarcasm.

Suzuka and Fuji in Japan are both faster tracks. Let's not even start with the world.

Oh well, the discussion has moved on.

[fckillerbee]

the video of the miata thing...just show you that both those "american" drivers don't have experience in stupid low power cars...even though gushi was raising in a corolla. A miata is still harder. Almost as hard as a FC...and only thing harder than a FC was either a 300zx twin turbo, or Mr2 turbo. both had no angle...with shitty powerbands. I'm sure if they were "tuned" for drifting it would be easier, but the miata was relatively easy to drive. Nothing is easier than a GT mustang, or a 200whp 240sx.

Lets keep this on topic!

[ericcastro]

Originally Posted by VQZ33

this is a real video of japanese drifters vs american drifters.... I'm not talking about millions of corporation dollars at work for those drift machines... this is stock car vs stock car enjoy gentlemen and let the truth be known...

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 1/3

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 2/3

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 3/3

Shit was posted mid 2007.

prolly filmed late 2006.

irrelevent post.

Originally Posted by VQZ33

............ drifting is about momentum and weight transfer not torque and hp...

Its about all 4.
Otherwise, just push a engineless car, pull the ebrake, and see what that momentum and weight transfer do for ya.

Originally Posted by VQZ33

. ex i should be able to pull the same angle from a stock ka 240sx as a swapped 240 with a vq...

of course, ......full lock...... but do you have the power to get out of it at 10mph around the building at Balcony??

A V-8 does, a KA doesnt.

Originally Posted by VQZ33

. what makes someone more competitive cause they have a vq in there 240? if thats the case they need to improve there driving not there engine catch my drift?.

Sorry duder, but there is no way in hell my KA will do the big bank at irwindale. no matter how much PSI i run in the back, and whatever other unicorn dreams and hopes its running on.

But a VQ will in a heartbeat.

So yes, that does make them more competitive.
And the fact that in tandem I cant catch them, but they can catch me.

Originally Posted by VQZ33

. i call that a lack of skill and finesse... u cannot make up skill, experience and finesse with horsepower and torque.
.

and you cant make up lack of HP and Torque with skill and finesse.
Somethings, no matter how hard you cross your fingers and pray to my little pony sparkle dreams, its just not gonna happen.

I am wondering if you have a youdrift account?

Originally Posted by FantasticVoyages

It all boils down to what drifting is defined as, what are the things that make up a perfect pass.

great post.
green square to you.
Formula D specifically ask for different things in their drivers meetings and judges on different criteria.

[word sux]

this whole thread reeks of butthurt


GRASS ROOTS > ALL ELSE

[fckillerbee]

lol...eric I can see ziptied is rubbing off on you. lol. I love your posts.

and to re-clarify...i also drive a KA....anything with more power will pull itself out from a full lock drift coming around the building...."I"....have to take a damn perfect line to keep it going....."power" will allow you to not only come out...but even change that line...vs I can only take one line...if I want to go wider...I don't have the power to push the car around...wheel speed isn't spinning enough to keep the car in drift.

my car......
YouTube - 626 drift at the balcony feb 13 2011


brian sloma's v8
YouTube - 626 drift at the balcony feb 13 2011

you can see how i'm ON throttle....V8's make a fucking world of difference at that speed.


As far as "perfect" drifting in FD....guy hit it on the money....at the start of the events...they ask the drivers what they want. I remember at atlanta...they specifically said "zeros" for dirt dropping. Every driver aggreed that it's harder to get that rear tire ON the line.

forseburg talks about atlanta....what they look for....and if you watch his line....it's phenominal everytime....guy drives a z with less than 400whp.....in a convertable.
YouTube - Chris Forsberg - Formula Drift Atlanta 2010


We have some amazing drivers....no doubt...but in a overal shootout...japan has been doing this 10 years on us EASY! That doesn't mean we won't win some....but at the same time...look at their tracks compared to ours....they are simply harder. So Their tracks are designed to improve skill. If we went there...we would lose...if they came to irwindale...well....that's OUR HOUSE OF DRIFT.

still the best driving i've seen at irwindale to date...(as qualifying)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff8ZZ0BjLaw

my favorite atlanta run from pawlak...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjsnU...eature=related

dudes a great driver....

[word sux]

Originally Posted by fckillerbee

lol...eric I can see ziptied is rubbing off on you. lol. I love your posts.

and to re-clarify...i also drive a KA....anything with more power will pull itself out from a full lock drift coming around the building...."I"....have to take a damn perfect line to keep it going....."power" will allow you to not only come out...but even change that line...vs I can only take one line...if I want to go wider...I don't have the power to push the car around...wheel speed isn't spinning enough to keep the car in drift.

my car......
YouTube - 626 drift at the balcony feb 13 2011


brian sloma's v8
YouTube - 626 drift at the balcony feb 13 2011

you can see how i'm ON throttle....V8's make a fucking world of difference at that speed.


As far as "perfect" drifting in FD....guy hit it on the money....at the start of the events...they ask the drivers what they want. I remember at atlanta...they specifically said "zeros" for dirt dropping. Every driver aggreed that it's harder to get that rear tire ON the line.

forseburg talks about atlanta....what they look for....and if you watch his line....it's phenominal everytime....guy drives a z with less than 400whp.....in a convertable.
YouTube - Chris Forsberg - Formula Drift Atlanta 2010


We have some amazing drivers....no doubt...but in a overal shootout...japan has been doing this 10 years on us EASY! That doesn't mean we won't win some....but at the same time...look at their tracks compared to ours....they are simply harder. So Their tracks are designed to improve skill. If we went there...we would lose...if they came to irwindale...well....that's OUR HOUSE OF DRIFT.

still the best driving i've seen at irwindale to date...(as qualifying)
YouTube - Bergenholtz Racing - JTP @ Formula Drift Irwindale, CA 2009 Rd. 7 - #1 Qualifer!

my favorite atlanta run from pawlak...
YouTube - Joon Maeng and Justin Pawlak in top 16 competition Drift Atlanta '09

dudes a great driver....

I agree with what you said about underpowered cars.


Last season on the stock ka I had only 1 line to run and that was the fastest line. If i messed up even a little bit i would straighten, no margin for error. Thats why i went sr this season even thought its stock for the most part it will give me a little more wiggle room, no more 70mph kamikaze attacks lol.


GRASS ROOTS > ALL ELSE

[BoostSlideWayz]

Well us Americans still are very new to drifting. There for i am on the Japanese side considering they are the creators and there style is amazing. But i remember seeing a pro drifter say he would like to see us Americans use more American cars. and lots of the best american drifters are still using Japanese cars. so when i see us using some of our own cars vs japan i think it would be a good battle but for them to switch from Jap to us cars would probably need some getting used to.

[Brinton]

who cares if japanese drifting is "faster" than american drifting.

Japanese cars will always look better and japanese people will always have cooler trends and style.

[ericcastro]

Originally Posted by Brinton

japanese people will always have cooler trends and style.

[One_love_silvia]

@ eric

i can make the same argument about the us. (see attached pic.) hell, im not even sure if thats a guy or girl.

however im not going to clutter the pages with pictures of ugly people.

also, zOmg the legendary word_sux! coming from the ever-so-unpopulated 240sxforums eh? lol

back on topic...anyone else got any more jap vs us drift vids? maybe of some pros from here drifting in japan?

as for kazama having an advantage over millen and gushi, sure...he drives cars like that all the time back in japan, im sure of it. but he did all that in a LHD car.

i watched a d1 episode with sam hubinette and a few other american guys drifting in against the japs in the d1 japan. they had to drive RHD cars, and it totally messed them up. they looked like amateurs out there spinning out all the time and all. and those were cars specifically built using instructions the drivers gave.

kazama did an amazing job with a STOCK car thats LHD. the american drifters did, at best, an ok job with the highly modded RHD drift cars from team vertex.

so even if he does have exp. in short wheel based cars, he doesnt have experience in LHD cars. let alone fully stock ones.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by singlecamslam

Japanese dont use V8's haha. And still better than drifting here? Therefore proving you dont need a v8 to be cool? Teddy?

No, in D1 you just need 800+ hp 6 cylinder turbo with nitrous oxide to be competitive.

[ericcastro]

Originally Posted by One_love_silvia

@ eric

i can make the same argument about the us. (see attached pic.) hell, im not even sure if thats a guy or girl.

I think you missed the point of my post.
Dudes comment was so ignorant, I just gave him some pics.

And AGAIN, you guys are talking about US vs JPN, 4 or more years ago.

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

No, in D1 you just need 800+ hp 6 cylinder turbo with nitrous oxide to be competitive.

You get it.

I think most of these kids watch you tube videos and dont realize what they are seeing is several years old.

[One_love_silvia]

Originally Posted by ericcastro

And AGAIN, you guys are talking about US vs JPN, 4 or more years ago.

as were u when commenting on that video.
im simplying negating what u said about said video

and if youtube is such a bad source for current videos, could u please supply ur source and share it with the rest of us? since it seems u have said source of current/good videos

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by VQZ33

this is a real video of japanese drifters vs american drifters.... I'm not talking about millions of corporation dollars at work for those drift machines... this is stock car vs stock car enjoy gentlemen and let the truth be known...

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 1/3

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 2/3

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 3/3

Tanner Foust beat Kazama in the same challenge in a mustang with a vlsd.
YouTube - Drift Off 2 - Round 2 Keiichi Tsuchiya VS Ken Gushi - Best Motoring International

[North]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

No, in D1 you just need 800+ hp 6 cylinder turbo with nitrous oxide to be competitive.

Example:

YouTube - SAITO DIAGO 800hp JZX100 MONSTER DRIFT ODAIBA 2008

Another thing, why does Kazama's name keep coming up? No denying he is/was a great driver, but he hasn't been competing in D1 for almost 3-4 years now... shame really, but maybe he'll show up again with the introduction of Tsuchiya's new series.

[FantasticVoyages]

Because he is one of the best ever.

Funny in those miata videos, the only person who didn't do better than Tsuchya was Rhys Millen.

When Gushi was driving his own mustang he was no where as smooth as Kazama was in the sucky Miata.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by North

Example:

YouTube - SAITO DIAGO 800hp JZX100 MONSTER DRIFT ODAIBA 2008

Another thing, why does Kazama's name keep coming up? No denying he is/was a great driver, but he hasn't been competing in D1 for almost 3-4 years now... shame really, but maybe he'll show up again with the introduction of Tsuchiya's new series.

You mean show up in D1 again because Tsuchya is out? I predict many old school drivers that disapeared in the past 5 years will suddenly return.

[ericcastro]

Originally Posted by One_love_silvia

as were u when commenting on that video.
im simplying negating what u said about said video

and if youtube is such a bad source for current videos, could u please supply ur source and share it with the rest of us? since it seems u have said source of current/good videos

Can you speak english.

Not some wanna be intellectual version of "said" language.
(sounds so stupid when people say that, its not a fucking document in court, we are conversing)

lol.
You didnt negate anything.
I did when commenting about old videos.
Then double negated videos by pointing out they were old.

BTW, the conversations moved on, so catch up.

[singlecamslam]

I think we need better tracks in America. Can we all agree on that atleast?

[silsx13]

Originally Posted by ericcastro

SO,

Pic #1: Made so you don't burn your face off eating Ramen?

Pic #2: TP on the head so you don't have to carry a Kleenex box to blow your nose? Or Dunce cap? (If anyone remembers what a Dunce cap is...)

Pic #3: Ganguro Girls, "GG." Yay!

Pic #4: This one helps you fall asleep, especially if you're an old guy I guess, haha.


And what's the point of all these pics? Maybe to point out the innovations that the Japanese try out? Or maybe just for laughs, haha.

Or maybe the Japanese DO NOT always have the cooler trends and styles all the time...everything is a mix and mash up nowadays anyways.

With that being said, I think the different drifting styles between the Japanese and American sides influence each other in some way BUT, there is distinct differences as was mentioned in previous posts such as angle, speed, and line.

Out of those 3, I believe and say that "Line" is the most important...

[North]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

You mean show up in D1 again because Tsuchya is out? I predict many old school drivers that disapeared in the past 5 years will suddenly return.

No. I meant show up in Tsuchiya's new series that him and Daijiro Inada are creating. Kazama drove for [Tsuchiya's] Kei Office before he sold it off (just an FYI if you didn't already know). But, it's probably the same politics and bullshit that had drivers like him, Taniguchi and others back out of D1 that eventually made Tsuchiya leave as well...

And just because I was asking why Kazama was continually being mentioned doesn't mean that I don't think he's a great driver. I'd just put Imamura as being a better driver to compare the current US vs Japanese crop. Reason being: he's been in D1 since the beginning, he's the ONLY driver to win more than 1 championship (3 so far, 2 of which were back-to-back; and in different cars), and he's still competing.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by North

No. I meant show up in Tsuchiya's new series that him and Daijiro Inada are creating. Kazama drove for [Tsuchiya's] Kei Office before he sold it off (just an FYI if you didn't already know). But, it's probably the same politics and bullshit that had drivers like him, Taniguchi and others back out of D1 that eventually made Tsuchiya leave as well...

Did this make since to you when you read it back? Tsuchiya is/was/will be the problem, sorry to break it to you. Dai and Dori King will go on to peddle DVDs while the new D1 will secure a TV deal, attract new sponsors an hopefully return stateside without drama.