Nismo vs SPC Control Arms

[SupaDoopa]

It sounds like he's trying to replace the arms that GKTech included with the HICAS elimination kit with either SPC or NISMO - I think at least.


In comparison, both look pretty shitty but I'd go NISMO, box the bottoms so there is a little more strength and run those. That's of course you're silly enough to get rid of the GKTechs. Not sure why those scare you but it sounds like the maintenance is too much for you to handle.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by SupaDoopa

It sounds like he's trying to replace the arms that GKTech included with the HICAS elimination kit with either SPC or NISMO - I think at least.

In comparison, both look pretty shitty but I'd go NISMO, box the bottoms so there is a little more strength and run those. That's of course you're silly enough to get rid of the GKTechs. Not sure why those scare you but it sounds like the maintenance is too much for you to handle.

I'm not buying the complete GKTech Kit which includes Bar, Arms and Poly Bushings for the knuckles.

You've been around long enough to know polyurethane does not belong on a car. Spherical only belongs on the track.

My S13 was full retard. - Solid Subframe mounts, spherical arms, poly everything and the car was god awful because of it.

There is a reason you don't see Spherical or Poly on any OEM application - regardless of how exotic, hyper-race ready or special it is.

F40 Control Arm





To my knowledge, the only Rubber based arms available are -

Nismo Factory Style
SPC Adjustable (SPC is a leader in alignment technology and equipment)
NRG DME
TruHart

Megan and Nismo both offer "harder rubber" press in bushings for you arms, knuckles and subframes.


Answer to OP's Question:

GKTech confirmed what I suspected. The Elimination Bar would require an adjustable Toe-Arm to make sure toe-alignment is properly set. Even if it's only a few MM off from the factory sub-frame, that's enough to throw off you toe with no way to correct.

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Megan and Nismo both offer "harder rubber" press in bushings for you arms, knuckles and subframes.

id go with the NISMO hard rubber inserts. i have megan lateral rods and trailing arms on my Protege and honestly, the hard rubber inserts are garbage. id take heim joints over them any day. pretty sure Megan is using cheap rubber in their products.

and you mentioned above about your dislike using urethane and heim joints from your S13 experience. im curious... what is it about both that you dislike so much? my S13 hatch is currently all heim joints and urethane bushings and i have zero qualms with any of my suspension setup (outside of the driveline noise from the rear subframe which i will remedy one day). ive driven a low mileage S13 Silvia a friend owns and the suspension slop is just god awful. not sure why youd be ok with that?

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

and you mentioned above about your dislike using urethane and heim joints from your S13 experience. im curious... what is it about both that you dislike so much? my S13 hatch is currently all heim joints and urethane bushings and i have zero qualms with any of my suspension setup (outside of the driveline noise from the rear subframe which i will remedy one day). ive driven a low mileage S13 Silvia a friend owns and the suspension slop is just god awful. not sure why youd be ok with that?

For me its the road noise. Most of us are not driving our cars in a manner where the extra 1-2mm of bushing deflection will even be noticeable or be much of a disadvantage. I'm in the process of removing all the poly and heim joints in my s14 for new rubber Nismo bushings.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by spooled240

For me its the road noise. Most of us are not driving our cars in a manner where the extra 1-2mm of bushing deflection will even be noticeable or be much of a disadvantage. I'm in the process of removing all the poly and heim joints in my s14 for new rubber Nismo bushings.

100% Agreed.

I have an amazingly clean R32 and I don't want to screw it up. These cars are great from the factory. 20 years ago I thought the idea of stitch welding towers, reinforcing all the arms, etc was hella-cool. Now I see it as a pointless waste of time and money unless you going full NASCAR with the damn thing.

That 90's chassis flex is part of the charm. Plenty of better options if you're looking for a Rail.

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by spooled240

For me its the road noise. Most of us are not driving our cars in a manner where the extra 1-2mm of bushing deflection will even be noticeable or be much of a disadvantage. I'm in the process of removing all the poly and heim joints in my s14 for new rubber Nismo bushings.

between my Protege5 and my 240sx... my S13 is almost dead quiet on the road. it may have to do with the way the suspension design works, or the tires on my S13 vs Protege, but my Protege is a fucking tin box that has TONS of road noise. my S13 on decent to good pavement/black top is dead silent. you can have conversations in my cabin at normal speaking volume, and thats with full heim jointed and urethane suspension. the ONLY time there is any annoying sound is in 4th gear as it winds down. i get drone from it. got a bit louder when i went with urethane subframe bushings. however, outside of 4th gear wind down, there is very little cabin noise from the road. in 5th gear at 75-85mph, zero exhaust drone, zero driveline noise, very very little road noise (only if going over shitty pavement).

one huge thing i did notice that helped with any road noise was after i replaced my inside hatch weather stripping and the hatch bumpers. it was night and day with sound reduction!

I dunno, i think it may just be properly mixing suspension items with tires, along with good weather stripping to help reduce road noise with aftermarket bits.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

id go with the NISMO hard rubber inserts. i have megan lateral rods and trailing arms on my Protege and honestly, the hard rubber inserts are garbage. id take heim joints over them any day. pretty sure Megan is using cheap rubber in their products.

I don't doubt the Megan's are inferior. I'm just saying that's the only game in town. Febest is the other brand that makes replacement OEM style bushings. Regular Nissan bushings are out of production, leaving only the premium priced Nismo Ones.

I'm sure you know, but for anyone just reading along -

Nismo Rear Knuckle Bushings (6pcs) will set you back $180.
Megan Rear Knuckle Bushings (6pcs) $110.
Febest (6pc) - $70

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

and you mentioned above about your dislike using urethane and heim joints from your S13 experience. im curious... what is it about both that you dislike so much? my S13 hatch is currently all heim joints and urethane bushings and i have zero qualms with any of my suspension setup (outside of the driveline noise from the rear subframe which i will remedy one day). ive driven a low mileage S13 Silvia a friend owns and the suspension slop is just god awful. not sure why youd be ok with that?

There is reason every single OEM ever does not use Heim and Polyurethane.

The noise and vibration was terrible. Diff whine, suspension squeak and creak. It also road stiff and I feel Poly slows the knuckles ability to articulate and return to neutral. Overall, that car had every single "Tuner Check Box, Zilvia Approved Race Mod" and was straight up un-enjoyable at the end of it.

The nail in the coffin, that made me sell the car -

At the last drift event I attend, my buddy and I swapped cars for a few laps. His an '89 Coupe, 100% stock except for a RB25 swapped with the boost cranked to 15psi and K-sports.

It absolutely destroyed my S20, top mount, built Hatch in terms of fun and smoothness.

Another great data point I have is from Cobb Tuning. When they purchased a FRS and BRZ for development work, Energy Suspension gave them a complete bushing kit. I forget which car got it, I think the BRZ - but the car became noticeably slower on the track compared to the FRS and significantly less enjoyable to drive on the street.

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by Corbic

I don't doubt the Megan's are inferior. I'm just saying that's the only game in town. Febest is the other brand that makes replacement OEM style bushings. Regular Nissan bushings are out of production, leaving only the premium priced Nismo Ones.

well, go with as many Nissan/NISMO bushings that you can. i had to replace one of my Megan rear trailing arms recently on my Protege. it somehow got bent/smashed upward and there was no point of impact on my chassis to indicate how it bent. when i pulled the arm, the rubber bushing was peeling and flaking off rubber... looked like it was on its last leg TBH. they DO NOT hold up to heat well at all. arm was only 3-4 years old at most (so 3-4 Vegas summers).

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

well, go with as many Nissan/NISMO bushings that you can. i had to replace one of my Megan rear trailing arms recently on my Protege. it somehow got bent/smashed upward and there was no point of impact on my chassis to indicate how it bent. when i pulled the arm, the rubber bushing was peeling and flaking off rubber... looked like it was on its last leg TBH. they DO NOT hold up to heat well at all. arm was only 3-4 years old at most (so 3-4 Vegas summers).

I'd believe it.

Here is what Febest lists -

1 YEAR WARRANTY: All Febest Parts come with a 1 Year Warranty backed by great customer service.
ONLY THE BEST STEEL: Febest only uses the best high-carbon steel. All Febest parts that contain metal use an expensive heat treatment process that improves metal strength and performance, also our parts use a higher level of polish to allow the bearing to roll smoother and last longer.
ONLY THE BEST RUBBER: Each Individual component of this part is made with high quality materials. Unlike our competitors Febest uses only high quality Natural Rubber (75%) and (25%) synthetic Rubber. This means that it is more durable, will last longer, and can handle temperatures from -40 to +140 degrees. The Rubber wont rub off on your hand like the cheap replacement parts offered by competitors
QUALITY IS EVERYTHING: The synthetic lubricant Febest uses is 10x as expensive as our competitors, and lasts 3x as long.
GERMAN QUALITY CONTROL: Febests German quality control experts ensure that all parts are of the utmost quality. We have specially developed metals and rubbers that create a super durable, and long lasting end product.

Doesn't say if its Celsius vs. Fahrenheit.

I'm curious if they are getting these parts made in Malaysia. If that's the case, could be some world class stuff. I ordered a sample to take a look.

https://www.febest.us/arm-bushing-re...bly-nab-242-en

[BryanSayWhat]

You could always go to a non-HICAS rear subframe...

Seems like it would be a lot of effort vs. just going with an adjustable hard rubber toe arm.