At last, depowered the rack. - Page 3 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

projectRDM · 03-14-2009, 01:05 PM

It's literally cake. I've now done three of them for people, it's so easy it's stupid.

Bigsyke · 03-14-2009, 06:01 PM

Make sure you adjust/release the tension on the tensioner and pack that area with grease otherwise your fighting useless drag - night and day difference. The tensioner is to control the ammount of pressure on the shaft, to keep the steering wheel from jumping around with PS intact [and keep the shaft pressed against the gear - but ive never run into any abnormal wear or issues] if removed, there is still a little bit of a loose feeling, but full out drifting is fucking cake. Its solid

The drilling part of the FSM should refer to the punched/staked section on the passenger side cover, which prevents you from removing the shaft fully.

The only question now is, what caster setting is optimal for the depowered rack, for casual road racing.

Update: there was a thread on KA-t somewhere I believe to fully remove the pump/pully while still retaining the OEM water pump. I think you need a

Sohc alternator pully, upper thermostat housing and one other part I dont remember.

If someone can find it that would be kick ass!

wgJoY · 03-14-2009, 06:54 PM

WOW.

A ton of good information in this thread.

Mangudai · 03-14-2009, 08:26 PM

I'd definitely do this if someone did a write up, though it sounds simply I'd probably find a way to fuck it up. Plus, my pump is dying anyhow this would save me a lot of money.

yokotavia · 03-15-2009, 08:56 AM

with a SR20, the power steering belt is separate from the alternator belt.

so if you have an sr, this is ideal to do if you dont feel like dealing with leaky powersteering

i just did mine today, but left my camera in a friends car..
will update with pics and a semi writeup in a few hours.

one question, i cut the metal "seal" off the rack, but am i suppose to leave the rubber seals in on the rack?

i left the black rubber seals ON the rack and packed it with grease and re installed everything and lessened the tension on the spring.

its pretty much awesome, my car isnt running yet, but once i get the rack in ill let you guys know how the steering feels.

Bigsyke · 03-15-2009, 12:46 PM

You have to cut the rubber seal to remove the metal one. The only seal that will be left is the drivers side seal...the passenger endcap will have its own seal i believe.

projectRDM · 03-15-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigsyke

You have to cut the rubber seal to remove the metal one. The only seal that will be left is the drivers side seal...the passenger endcap will have its own seal i believe.

I didn't cut the rubber on mine, I hit it with a chisel and tilted it on the shaft, allowing the shaft to slide out. I then put it back in when finished, but you are correct, the end plate will seal it too.

SPiG · 03-15-2009, 03:38 PM

The only hard/non-self explanatory part I found was the drilling/staking part. The nice thing is that once you remove the metal seal on the shaft, you never have to remove that end ever again really. Besides that it was pretty straight forward.

Otto347 · 03-15-2009, 04:43 PM

Excellent info, anyone have a picture of the staked part that has to be drilled?

projectRDM · 03-15-2009, 04:51 PM

The rack I converted didn't have to be drilled, turns out it was from an R33, so apparently at least some of them don't require that. I thought it was an A31 but was corrected by the owner.

Monooxide · 03-15-2009, 04:52 PM

I actually got to drive drive my car last night and today.

Turning in the car of course takes more effort than a rack taking advantage of the PS but nothing bad at all. The parking lot dead stop steering is nowhere near as bad as a depowered rack without being modified.

I overall think it was a great modification given that I had a busted line.

Bigsyke · 03-15-2009, 08:09 PM

Updated 1st page with some info on how to remove the PS pump from the DE

TurboSE · 05-12-2009, 01:25 PM

****bringing it back from the grave****

This mod looks easy enough and sounds like it has somegood qualities....now here's my "big" question...

sounds like a good mod on KA's and SR's...what about doing it with the added weight of an RB (26 to be exact)? On a street car?

A rather knowledgible friend of mine and I talked it over and basically came to the conclusion that on a car as front heavy as an RB26/S13, power-steering is my friend.

Opinions?

Bigsyke · 05-12-2009, 05:13 PM

I did it on an auto KA24de, swapped in a 5speed and its the exact same.

Mr.J · 05-13-2009, 06:34 AM

For those that have depowered racks, what rack are you using, HICAS or non-HICAS? The reason I ask is that I have a HICAS rack and am considering depowering it. I know that there is a difference in steering ratio, HICAS being 2.6 turns lock-to-lock and non-HICAS being 3.1 turns. I would think that with a depowered HICAS rack more steering effort would be required, but is it significant/ noticeable? Would I be better off sourcing a non-HICAS rack for the conversion?

Thanks.

murda-c · 05-13-2009, 07:55 AM

Aren't hicas racks relatively rare?

I'd say source a normal rack. Should be able to get one on the cheap.

projectRDM · 05-13-2009, 08:07 AM

Agreed. HICAS racks are far more in demand and you could easily sell it to offset any loss to someone who's going to continue running power steering. But to answer your question I doubt a depowered HICAS rack would seem any different than a non HICAS as far as feel, the drag on the rack is adjustable so either one will have the same weight if tensioned the same.

Bigsyke · 05-13-2009, 05:13 PM

IMO there is no need to even keep the tensioner as long as the rack is fully packed.

I see the tensioner as 2 things;

To adjust the return to center for a P/S setup

possibly press the shaft to the gear. But there is almost 0 shaft play regardless since the pinion is a tube shape with rubber oil seals.

I say remove the spring and shims on the rack and call it a day, since it helps a bit if you have wider front tires at speed. You get used to it.

At idle/not moving there is 0 difference with the tensioner/different rack because its still a direct connection to the tires. The reason its so tough to turn is because your lifting 1 side of the car up via a camber change.

Mr.J · 05-13-2009, 07:40 PM

I understand about the tensioner, etc, but my question was more based on the mechanical advantage of the racks, with the non-HICAS having a higher gear ratio, making it easier to turn.

I'm a little torn about which direction to go, because I have the HICAS rack, but my S13 is RHD, so finding a RHD non-HICAS may not be so cheap.

Has anyone done this to a HICAS rack and if so, what is your feedback?

Otto347 · 05-14-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboSE

****bringing it back from the grave****

This mod looks easy enough and sounds like it has somegood qualities....now here's my "big" question...

sounds like a good mod on KA's and SR's...what about doing it with the added weight of an RB (26 to be exact)? On a street car?

A rather knowledgible friend of mine and I talked it over and basically came to the conclusion that on a car as front heavy as an RB26/S13, power-steering is my friend.

Opinions?

Well im using one in my s13 and I have an iron block LSx so ill let you know the first time I drive it.

xs240 · 05-15-2009, 08:12 AM

^mwahaha i like the sound of the ls

Wait... iron block? Which one? I thought all LS were aluminum blocks and aluminum heads. Truck motor? 5.3liter one? Is it iron block?

***S14DB*** · 05-15-2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xs240

^mwahaha i like the sound of the ls

Wait... iron block? Which one? I thought all LS were aluminum blocks and aluminum heads. Truck motor? 5.3liter one? Is it iron block?

GM LS engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ZAKU · 06-16-2009, 01:30 AM

For the people who have de-powered their racks, what size wheels/tires do you run?

I currently have 17x8 +35's on the front with 225/45 tires, I want to make sure the larger width tire and wheel, as well as a lower offset won't significantly increase steering effort BEFORE I de-power my rack.

drifterdave · 06-16-2009, 02:06 AM

im gonna be looping my lines, in a couple of days, ever since my ps pump has been failing, i dont really put ps fluid in it, but iam gonna be using my car just for drifting, and i really only like the car with out power steering. when i do put fluid in my car i cant stand driving it, and when i do slide my car, i almost always over counter, and but when i dont have power steering i have no problems at all, is anyone else like this? or does any one like drifting without power steering? cuse i do! but i think im gonna try and pick up another rack and start on this project.

Matej · 06-16-2009, 03:45 AM

Has anyone on here with an Unorthodox pulley done the DOHC single belt conversion? I am just trying to figure out what would be the best belt size to use.

GSXRJJordan · 06-16-2009, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZAKU

For the people who have de-powered their racks, what size wheels/tires do you run?

I currently have 17x8 +35's on the front with 225/45 tires, I want to make sure the larger width tire and wheel, as well as a lower offset won't significantly increase steering effort BEFORE I de-power my rack.

It doesn't change that much, I've run 17x8.5 +20 and 18x10 +0 fronts with and without the power steering, and the wheel size doesn't change much. Wider tires will change how it feels, but overall effort is more dependent on camber (cause you only 'feel' it when you're stopped/going really slow).

Quote:

Originally Posted by drifterdave

im gonna be looping my lines, in a couple of days, ever since my ps pump has been failing, i dont really put ps fluid in it, but iam gonna be using my car just for drifting, and i really only like the car with out power steering. when i do put fluid in my car i cant stand driving it, and when i do slide my car, i almost always over counter, and but when i dont have power steering i have no problems at all, is anyone else like this? or does any one like drifting without power steering? cuse i do! but i think im gonna try and pick up another rack and start on this project.

You didn't put fluid in your pump, and now it's failing. Your car is used "only" for drifting, and you're going to depower the rack? I don't know a single person that actually drifts their car (at events and such) that prefers (or would even drive with) a depowered rack. It's dumb - you CANT counter fast enough for a real initiation, and fuck trying to initiate with the ebrake when it takes two hands on the wheel to swing it... even with my hydro mounted right next to the wheel, it just wasn't happening. Don't handicap yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

Has anyone on here with an Unorthodox pulley done the DOHC single belt conversion? I am just trying to figure out what would be the best belt size to use.

Ewwww, KA questions are icky.

Matej · 06-16-2009, 06:15 AM

Personally, I actually like the idea of getting a workout while driving/drifting my car.

ZAKU · 06-16-2009, 11:55 AM

I've driven both AE86's and EF Civics with manual racks and no matter how good a PS system may be, nothing can match the feel of a manual rack.

As for drifting with a manual rack, I know it's popular on AE86 and older corolla's, but s-chassis cars weigh significantly more so I don't think it's a very good idea.

Bigsyke · 06-16-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZAKU

I've driven both AE86's and EF Civics with manual racks and no matter how good a PS system may be, nothing can match the feel of a manual rack.

As for drifting with a manual rack, I know it's popular on AE86 and older corolla's, but s-chassis cars weigh significantly more so I don't think it's a very good idea.

Weight doesnt mean shit here. Its the suspension.

I went from an auto, full a/c => 5speed with some significant weight reduction, and the depowered rack was the exact same. There was no reduced steering effort with removing the 300+lbs in the front. So i doubt engines make a difference.

The only way to really get an idea for what size belt to use is get a tape measure like they use at fabric stores, remove about 1-2cm and thats the belt you need. The alternator can still make up for any slack/free play since you seem to have alot of adjustment.

One thing I did notice when I had the front of my car slammed, and the rears were only slightly lowered was the steering effort was insanely easy. I drove like that for about 2 weeks before lowering the rears and then the steering effort went back to normal.

I dont drift my car, its strictly daily driving for now. Drifting w/o ps could potentially snap those whimpy u-joints on the coupler.

Matej · 06-16-2009, 03:06 PM

Wish the feedback wasn't so divided. Some people claim they love drifting with no power steering, while others say it is impossible.

03-14-2009, 01:05 PM	#61
projectRDM Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Atlanta Age: 50 Posts: 13,812 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	It's literally cake. I've now done three of them for people, it's so easy it's stupid. __________________ FORMERLY R240NA Learn what's really going on and protect your assets now before they're gone forever: www.paypalsucks.com

03-14-2009, 08:26 PM	#64
Mangudai Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: South Posts: 656 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I'd definitely do this if someone did a write up, though it sounds simply I'd probably find a way to fuck it up. Plus, my pump is dying anyhow this would save me a lot of money. __________________ Almost there.

03-15-2009, 08:56 AM	#65
yokotavia Zilvia Addict Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The land of bosos and schoolgirls Posts: 679 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	with a SR20, the power steering belt is separate from the alternator belt. so if you have an sr, this is ideal to do if you dont feel like dealing with leaky powersteering i just did mine today, but left my camera in a friends car.. will update with pics and a semi writeup in a few hours. one question, i cut the metal "seal" off the rack, but am i suppose to leave the rubber seals in on the rack? i left the black rubber seals ON the rack and packed it with grease and re installed everything and lessened the tension on the spring. its pretty much awesome, my car isnt running yet, but once i get the rack in ill let you guys know how the steering feels. __________________ Banana boat chronicles

03-15-2009, 04:51 PM	#70
projectRDM Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Atlanta Age: 50 Posts: 13,812 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	The rack I converted didn't have to be drilled, turns out it was from an R33, so apparently at least some of them don't require that. I thought it was an A31 but was corrected by the owner. __________________ FORMERLY R240NA Learn what's really going on and protect your assets now before they're gone forever: www.paypalsucks.com

05-12-2009, 01:25 PM	#73
TurboSE Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hanover Pa Posts: 740 Trader Rating: (15) Feedback Score: 15 reviews	**bringing it back from the grave** This mod looks easy enough and sounds like it has somegood qualities....now here's my "big" question... sounds like a good mod on KA's and SR's...what about doing it with the added weight of an RB (26 to be exact)? On a street car? A rather knowledgible friend of mine and I talked it over and basically came to the conclusion that on a car as front heavy as an RB26/S13, power-steering is my friend. Opinions? __________________ WTB: PAIR 18x10 0 to -25, less than $1500 shipped please.

03-14-2009, 06:01 PM	#62
Bigsyke Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NA Age: 39 Posts: 1,342 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Make sure you adjust/release the tension on the tensioner and pack that area with grease otherwise your fighting useless drag - night and day difference. The tensioner is to control the ammount of pressure on the shaft, to keep the steering wheel from jumping around with PS intact [and keep the shaft pressed against the gear - but ive never run into any abnormal wear or issues] if removed, there is still a little bit of a loose feeling, but full out drifting is fucking cake. Its solid The drilling part of the FSM should refer to the punched/staked section on the passenger side cover, which prevents you from removing the shaft fully. The only question now is, what caster setting is optimal for the depowered rack, for casual road racing. Update: there was a thread on KA-t somewhere I believe to fully remove the pump/pully while still retaining the OEM water pump. I think you need a Sohc alternator pully, upper thermostat housing and one other part I dont remember. If someone can find it that would be kick ass!

03-14-2009, 06:54 PM	#63
wgJoY Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: 626 Posts: 634 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	WOW. A ton of good information in this thread.

03-15-2009, 12:46 PM	#66
Bigsyke Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NA Age: 39 Posts: 1,342 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	You have to cut the rubber seal to remove the metal one. The only seal that will be left is the drivers side seal...the passenger endcap will have its own seal i believe.

03-15-2009, 03:38 PM	#68
SPiG Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Age: 38 Posts: 25 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	The only hard/non-self explanatory part I found was the drilling/staking part. The nice thing is that once you remove the metal seal on the shaft, you never have to remove that end ever again really. Besides that it was pretty straight forward.

03-15-2009, 04:52 PM	#71
Monooxide Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Farmington/Flint, MI Age: 36 Posts: 675 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	I actually got to drive drive my car last night and today. Turning in the car of course takes more effort than a rack taking advantage of the PS but nothing bad at all. The parking lot dead stop steering is nowhere near as bad as a depowered rack without being modified. I overall think it was a great modification given that I had a busted line.

03-15-2009, 08:09 PM	#72
Bigsyke Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NA Age: 39 Posts: 1,342 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Updated 1st page with some info on how to remove the PS pump from the DE

05-12-2009, 05:13 PM	#74
Bigsyke Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NA Age: 39 Posts: 1,342 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I did it on an auto KA24de, swapped in a 5speed and its the exact same.

05-13-2009, 06:34 AM	#75
Mr.J Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 35 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	For those that have depowered racks, what rack are you using, HICAS or non-HICAS? The reason I ask is that I have a HICAS rack and am considering depowering it. I know that there is a difference in steering ratio, HICAS being 2.6 turns lock-to-lock and non-HICAS being 3.1 turns. I would think that with a depowered HICAS rack more steering effort would be required, but is it significant/ noticeable? Would I be better off sourcing a non-HICAS rack for the conversion? Thanks.

05-13-2009, 07:55 AM	#76
murda-c Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montgomery County, MD Age: 35 Posts: 3,197 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Aren't hicas racks relatively rare? I'd say source a normal rack. Should be able to get one on the cheap. __________________

05-13-2009, 08:07 AM	#77
projectRDM Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Atlanta Age: 50 Posts: 13,812 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	Agreed. HICAS racks are far more in demand and you could easily sell it to offset any loss to someone who's going to continue running power steering. But to answer your question I doubt a depowered HICAS rack would seem any different than a non HICAS as far as feel, the drag on the rack is adjustable so either one will have the same weight if tensioned the same. __________________ FORMERLY R240NA Learn what's really going on and protect your assets now before they're gone forever: www.paypalsucks.com

05-13-2009, 05:13 PM	#78
Bigsyke Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NA Age: 39 Posts: 1,342 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	IMO there is no need to even keep the tensioner as long as the rack is fully packed. I see the tensioner as 2 things; To adjust the return to center for a P/S setup possibly press the shaft to the gear. But there is almost 0 shaft play regardless since the pinion is a tube shape with rubber oil seals. I say remove the spring and shims on the rack and call it a day, since it helps a bit if you have wider front tires at speed. You get used to it. At idle/not moving there is 0 difference with the tensioner/different rack because its still a direct connection to the tires. The reason its so tough to turn is because your lifting 1 side of the car up via a camber change.

05-13-2009, 07:40 PM	#79
Mr.J Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 35 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I understand about the tensioner, etc, but my question was more based on the mechanical advantage of the racks, with the non-HICAS having a higher gear ratio, making it easier to turn. I'm a little torn about which direction to go, because I have the HICAS rack, but my S13 is RHD, so finding a RHD non-HICAS may not be so cheap. Has anyone done this to a HICAS rack and if so, what is your feedback?

05-15-2009, 08:12 AM	#81
xs240 BANNED Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: . Posts: 437 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	^mwahaha i like the sound of the ls Wait... iron block? Which one? I thought all LS were aluminum blocks and aluminum heads. Truck motor? 5.3liter one? Is it iron block?

06-16-2009, 01:30 AM	#83
ZAKU Leaky Injector Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada Age: 37 Posts: 104 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	For the people who have de-powered their racks, what size wheels/tires do you run? I currently have 17x8 +35's on the front with 225/45 tires, I want to make sure the larger width tire and wheel, as well as a lower offset won't significantly increase steering effort BEFORE I de-power my rack.

06-16-2009, 02:06 AM	#84
drifterdave Leaky Injector Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: santa maria Age: 35 Posts: 138 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	im gonna be looping my lines, in a couple of days, ever since my ps pump has been failing, i dont really put ps fluid in it, but iam gonna be using my car just for drifting, and i really only like the car with out power steering. when i do put fluid in my car i cant stand driving it, and when i do slide my car, i almost always over counter, and but when i dont have power steering i have no problems at all, is anyone else like this? or does any one like drifting without power steering? cuse i do! but i think im gonna try and pick up another rack and start on this project. __________________ keeping it gangster

06-16-2009, 03:45 AM	#85
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	Has anyone on here with an Unorthodox pulley done the DOHC single belt conversion? I am just trying to figure out what would be the best belt size to use.

06-16-2009, 06:15 AM	#87
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	Personally, I actually like the idea of getting a workout while driving/drifting my car.

06-16-2009, 11:55 AM	#88
ZAKU Leaky Injector Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada Age: 37 Posts: 104 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	I've driven both AE86's and EF Civics with manual racks and no matter how good a PS system may be, nothing can match the feel of a manual rack. As for drifting with a manual rack, I know it's popular on AE86 and older corolla's, but s-chassis cars weigh significantly more so I don't think it's a very good idea.

06-16-2009, 03:06 PM	#90
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	Wish the feedback wasn't so divided. Some people claim they love drifting with no power steering, while others say it is impossible.