At last, depowered the rack.

[ixfxi]

I've been preaching about this for how long? Near a decade, easily.

Besides not having any of the power steering clutter nonsense is when you drive over water, you will immediately feel the disconnect of traction with the front tires through the steering wheel. It gives you a huge advantage over cars with numb power steering.

I have a HICAS rack that I de-powered. I am curious how that is going to feel. The closer ratio might make it a bit too much, but I'm willing to give it a shot. I know my front tires arent going to help either (275mm R888)

[Hoffman5982]

Buddy of mine had a depowered hicas rack on his s14 and loved it. If I could have found one before depowering mine I would have gone that route for sure

[Matej]

There is a Dodge Omni universal manual steering rack going in my car.
Looks same as this, except mine will be mounted properly, unlike this person's who has a deathwish.

[JZ78]

You have any more info on the Dodge Omni rack...like what kind of modification needed to fit in an s13, is it just Bolt on? Anymore info would be greatly appreciated kind sir.

sent from my mind

[zdfhh]

So, compared to the way you had it before with the looped lines, how does it feel?

[TheRealSy90]

Does the dodge omni rack use the same tie rods?

[rawgarage]

Originally Posted by Hoffman5982

^That really wasn't worth reviving this thread over.

But here we are, so I will give my impressions on having a depowered rack:

I love it. I've had it in for about 2 months now after my 3rd rack started leaking like crazy. Throwing the car is harder, obviously, but the amount of feedback you get is incredible. I can also transfer as hard as I want not worry about countersteering fast enough. A manual rack forces you to become smoother while drifting. Parking lots really aren't bad. if you're standing still, turning sucks. But if you're moving slowly its super easy to pull in and out of spaces. On my garage floor I can turn it with one hand while standing still, but not quite as easily on concrete that isn't so stiff.

If you're going for a low power drift car, this is definitely a great option. One thing I should note is that the faster you're going while drifting, the harder it is. So if you're running more power and going for higher speed entries, keep your power steering.

But it was... Im not the only person interested in this...


I was also told I Need to run a breather off the rack itself, do you have one or did you weld or crimp everything shut...

[Matej]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Does the dodge omni rack use the same tie rods?

No, but there are plenty of tie rods with the Omni threads on one end and S13/S14 on the other. The Moog website has a convenient list will all the thread pitches and lengths listed. The U-joint can also be ordered with the 240SX tooth-pattern on one side and the Omni patter on the other.

Originally Posted by JZ78

You have any more info on the Dodge Omni rack...like what kind of modification needed to fit in an s13, is it just Bolt on?

In the picture above the rack has the mounting brackets cut off, but they come new with mounting points on one end. I am just going to bolt it down through the stock holes on the crossmember (doubt they will match up exactly, so one of the holes on either the rack or the crossmember will probably need to be elongated or redrilled). On the other end I will use the clamp made for it and do the same thing with the holes.



It is the most basic and generic rear-steer manual rack I found. The nice thing is that the dimensions and angle of the shaft are similar to an S-chassis rack, and it even has a nearly identical travel distance.

[TheRealSy90]

More or less travel?

[ixfxi]

Matej

can you please keep us posted with your progress? This is really awesome.

Do you mind sharing some info/specs as for OE S-chassis vs Omni racks? Turns to lock, thread pitch/diameter, etc. I think a lot of people will find this information useful.

[Hoffman5982]

Originally Posted by DOPEPICS

But it was... Im not the only person interested in this...


I was also told I Need to run a breather off the rack itself, do you have one or did you weld or crimp everything shut...

I had grease fittings welded into the two ports on the rack and the two bigger ports sealed off. You fill it with grease and cut the piston that holds the seal specifically so you're not having to push hair, so having a breather isn't necessary. I was told to just seal them so debris wouldn't make its way inside.

Now that the Omni rack has come up, I am curious as to whether there is a difference between a properly depowered rack and a rack originally made to be manual as far as ease goes?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Hoffman5982

Now that the Omni rack has come up, I am curious as to whether there is a difference between a properly depowered rack and a rack originally made to be manual as far as ease goes?

Rack Ratio will be another big factor.

[Corbic]

Matej,

You going to use the Flaming River stuff (~$300) or "Autozone" one (~$140)?

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Rack Ratio will be another big factor.

Thats always been my understanding, that the ratio is not as close with the actual manual racks. My guess is that the Omni requires more turns to lock.


You guys were talking earlier about how you capped or vented the rack. Maybe I took the cheap way out, but I just stuffed some foam in the ports and called it a day. The foam keeps debri and shit out. I dunno, seemed sufficient for me.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

Thats always been my understanding, that the ratio is not as close with the actual manual racks. My guess is that the Omni requires more turns to lock.

Basically yes. The more turns they lighter they are. I'll check the 911 tomorrow for a turn count.

It's the epitome of a perfect manual rack.

Another factor impacting turning weight is the actual alignment.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Another factor impacting turning weight is the actual alignment.

If I am correct, caster is the most important when it comes to steering weight. Not exactly easily adjustable though.

[Matej]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

Do you mind sharing some info/specs as for OE S-chassis vs Omni racks? Turns to lock, thread pitch/diameter, etc. I think a lot of people will find this information useful.

240SX rack
137mm of travel with stock inner tie rods, +15mm or so extra travel attainable with spacers
3.5 or 3.7 turns lock-to-lock with stock inner tie rods (please correct), less for a Hicas rack
11/16" 36-tooth spline
M14x1.5 (please correct if wrong) female inner tie rod thread pitch

Omni rack
127mm of travel
4 turns lock-to-lock
9/16" 26-tooth spline
9/16"-18 male inner tie rod thread pitch
More technical info: http://www.flamingriver.com/download...anualRackSpecs

The Omni rack will not match the stock rack for competitive driving/drifting, I am mainly only doing this because I like the simplicity of manual steering and this was the best option I found so far. However, I will be using the GKTech knuckle adapters or possibly some mild modded/aftermarket knuckles, which should make up for the shorter travel and the longer ratio.

Here is a good list of inner tie rods:
http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com...r_Tie_Rods.asp
A conversion U-joint and/or a shaft spline conversion/extension can be bought from places such as this:
http://www.borgeson.com/xcart/catalo...0-p-1-c-2.html

Originally Posted by Corbic

Matej,

You going to use the Flaming River stuff (~$300) or "Autozone" one (~$140)?

This one:
http://www.helixsuspension.com/catal...Rear-Steering-

Though I ordered it through some random vendor months ago and they keep pushing back the shipping date, so I will probably order one from elsewhere.
I did have a random junkyard one, but it was old and I only used it for mock-up.

Also, there are two models available, one with a long pinion, and one with a short pinion.

[ixfxi]

Matej, a quick search online shows the following:

Steering Rack Ratio
HICAS - 14.9:1
Standard - 17.0:1

Turns to Lock:
HICAS - 2.6
Standard - 3.1

hehe, man... my car is going to FUCK me up. But maybe not. I quickly searched the Miata rack specs and it appears the actual manual rack is 3.3 Turns to Lock, and the Powered is 2.8 Turns to Lock. On paper, the manual HICAS rack should be nice.. but as we all know, real world is totally different than paper. I'll report back if and when I ever finish assembling this piece of shit car.

[Hoffman5982]

Just be prepared for pain if you dip off the road or anything. First time I slid with the manual rack I made a mistake and tried to catch the wheel. My wrist still gives me problems if I try to put all of my weight on it in a weird way. I'm just waiting for the broken thumbs my friends who ran manual racks had from time to time. There's no forgiveness.

[ixfxi]

then you didnt properly empty the rack

when the rack is empty, you can turn the wheel very easily except when you are 100% dead still. if you're parking and even moving very very slowly, the wheel turns easy

i have had my setup on multiple cars for over 10 years, no issues... autox events, etc.

[Hoffman5982]

I mean when you lose control. As I said before the only time it's hard to turn I when standing completely still, but even then it's manageable. At slow speeds you can barely tell it's manual. But when you screw up while drifting and go off the road or something, it can be brutal. I haven't had any problems since that first night now that I'm aware of it

[JayJay240sx]

I was reading up on the miata forums and they talk about play in the steering unless you weld the pinion, is this also an issue in the s13's? I have a 92 240

[Tulok]

Originally Posted by JayJay240sx

I was reading up on the miata forums and they talk about play in the steering unless you weld the pinion, is this also an issue in the s13's? I have a 92 240

nobody in the ENTIRE thread ever spoke of welding, EVER.