!!! Socal Random Emissions Check Points

[projectRDM]

Originally Posted by TheSquidd

There are laws you don't believe are just, and you are prone to breaking them. Done. Bam. Wallop. Chimichanga. You just contradicted everything your entire argument is based upon.

So because you don't feel a law is just (lets just keep using the turn signal one as an example) YOU can break that law, but because I don't feel it's right to make an SR20det illegal SOLELY for the reason that it was not originally sold here in America, I am being a whiny teenager?

HYPOCRITE.

And this argument was NEVER about catalytic converters. I don't get where you inferred that. I myself don't have one, and like I stated a page ago, if you don't have one that is your choice and up to whether you believe it's worth the punishment. I don't think I've ever put into question the validitiy of catalytic converters. I don't run one because basically, why bother? My car's fucking illegal in CA , so fuck it, I'm going to make it as illegal as I can.

This argument, SINCE THIS TAKES PLACE IN CA, is about how SR20DET's are ILLEGAL and will lead anyone who owns one to getting their car impounded, crushed, 1500$ fines, points on their record, constant police bullying, endless tickets and court dates. It doesn't matter if the car CAN PASS THE SNIFFER, it wont pass smog because of simply what it IS.

If you don't know SHIT about CA laws and how hard it is to be an owner of a car here, get the fuck out! It is ILLEGAL, in CA to modify ANYTHING. You cannot do brake swaps, you can not do intakes, you can not change exhausts, headers, intake manifolds, anything. It is ALL illegal here. So just because your car is LEGAL in GA, don't think you'd be some straight and narrow fucker over here, you'd be hunted like a pig just like everyone else here.

I believe PxR's post sums up everything else I wanted to say.

Do you even read anything before you spew out your ass? Where did I criticize any specific law? Don't put words in my mouth because you need a marter for your cause. I never said I blatantly break any laws, no matter what they are, and if I do I admit to them and pay the consequences, like an adult.

Your entire argument is based solely on you not being able to get away with a crime, no matter how trivial it is to you. That alone speaks volumes about your complete lack of intelligence, wisdom, or respect for anyone other than yourself. There is none. You're content on breaking a law because you want to, and damn anyone who thinks differently. Good attitude.

"I'm going to make it as illegal as I can"? So are you running over those children we discussed earlier, or shooting at buildings? I mean hell, if you're aiming for illegality there's no better avenue than murder.

SR20s are illegal in every state, it's just that CA has toughened the restrictions based 100% on people's attitudes and actions like yours. You've sternly admitted to not caring about the law or the environment, so should you be surprised that the laws are in effect in the first place? If people didn't trample all over the laws, they wouldn't need to be enforced. Guess what asshole, you brought this all upon yourself by disregarding it from day one.

If it is so tough to even own a car in CA (seems like it shouldn't be, they sell new cars there every year), then maybe you really should move. As for me, I don't give a flying fuck about CA so it's not for me to care what you are allowed to do, only what effects it has on others.

[PRADOgy]

-R240NA- with all do respect.. no use trying to prove your point.. you honeslty would have to live in california to understand the stress level we go through...the Law is not always right dude... if so then ALL states should have the same Laws!

[projectRDM]

Originally Posted by DoriKnights

-R240NA- with all do respect.. no use trying to prove your point.. you honeslty would have to live in california to understand the stress level we go through...the Law is not always right dude... if so then ALL states should have the same Laws!

I realized that a long time ago. Arguing with someone who has absolutely no clue about anything other than what he thinks is right is pointless. But I also don't like to see people get the wrong idea based solely on one person's assumptions that are completely biased and unfounded.

"I don't like a law, so it must be wrong and anyone who obeys it is an idiot" is a poor defense, no matter who it is. I'd expect more out of someone paying for a premium membership, but sadly I expect too much it seems.

[TheSquidd]

Originally Posted by R240NA

"I don't like a law, so it must be wrong and anyone who obeys it is an idiot" is a poor defense, no matter who it is. I'd expect more out of someone paying for a premium membership, but sadly I expect too much it seems.

I don't know how many times I can say this.... but...

HYPOCRITE

Hello?

My "view"

"I don't like a law, so it must be wrong and anyone who obeys it is an idiot"

Your "view"

"I agree with the law, so anyone who disobeys it must be an idiot."

In reality, I RESPECT those that obey the laws they believe in, I said that in my first huge post. This is the point I've been trying to make this whole time, you're a giant hypocrite. I have no problem with the people that obey the laws, good for them.

Yeah, my car is illegal as all hell. Let's call it... non violent protest. ^_^
Because MORALLY I don't believe it is wrong. Murder, that's MORALLY wrong to me. That's right, I have MY OWN BELIEFS and MORALES. Amazing huh, how I think for myself! Aren't I all grown up. Don't need some people in congress always telling me what my morales and beliefs should be.

I look forward to more of this.

[AbsoluteZero]

IMO I think you both have great valid points on things. Laws are there to protect us and whatnot and some are just plain stupid. I dont think its fair that and sr is illegal just by visual standards... but what can ya do ya know... That is stupid cali law... there is no use in arguing when you both dont see eye to eye on things... yeah cali is really strict on mods on cars.. more so than other states.. if we decide to mod our cars here its the risk we are taking and will have to pay for the consequences if we get caught having them... it may not be fair... and I personally don't think it is... but since we live here its something we have to deal with.

[Wei240]

sooo... how 'bout them dodgers, lol

but on a serious note, did ANYBODY get a ticket from these random checkpoints or sent to the ref or got towed away, etc etc

[TheSquidd]

Originally Posted by AbsoluteZero

IMO I think you both have great valid points on things. Laws are there to protect us and whatnot and some are just plain stupid. I dont think its fair that and sr is illegal just by visual standards... but what can ya do ya know... That is stupid cali law... there is no use in arguing when you both dont see eye to eye on things... yeah cali is really strict on mods on cars.. more so than other states.. if we decide to mod our cars here its the risk we are taking and will have to pay for the consequences if we get caught having them... it may not be fair... and I personally don't think it is... but since we live here its something we have to deal with.

This is our main problem, our "roll over and take it" attitude. If you don't agree with what's happening, do something!

Write your senator, write SEMA and ask them to help. (Unfortunately they aren't much help as I learned). Fight your tickets in court. Whatever you do don't just say "oh well", you're just letting them win at that point.

Our biggest problem is that we ARE young. And as Russ here has shown us, people don't give TWO shits about youth. We are a means to exploit, take money from and impose beliefs and morales upon.

Unfortunately this is a losing fight. People like Russ will always write the laws, and people like us will always break the laws.

Someone has to pay the police department's salaries I guess.

[AbsoluteZero]

Originally Posted by TheSquidd

This is our main problem, our "roll over and take it" attitude. If you don't agree with what's happening, do something!

Write your senator, write SEMA and ask them to help. (Unfortunately they aren't much help as I learned). Fight your tickets in court. Whatever you do don't just say "oh well", you're just letting them win at that point.

Our biggest problem is that we ARE young. And as Russ here has shown us, people don't give TWO shits about youth. We are a means to exploit, take money from and impose beliefs and morales upon.

Unfortunately this is a losing fight. People like Russ will always write the laws, and people like us will always break the laws.

Someone has to pay the police department's salaries I guess.

Police department and The states salaries.

You even made a point about our government... they won't help us and its a losing fight. Maybe one day it won't be like this and we can live happy with our srs in our car, but right now is not the time

Maybe we can find a way to make an sr look like a ka

[projectRDM]

Originally Posted by TheSquidd

I don't know how many times I can say this.... but...

HYPOCRITE

Hello?

My "view"

"I don't like a law, so it must be wrong and anyone who obeys it is an idiot"

Your "view"

"I agree with the law, so anyone who disobeys it must be an idiot."

In reality, I RESPECT those that obey the laws they believe in, I said that in my first huge post. This is the point I've been trying to make this whole time, you're a giant hypocrite. I have no problem with the people that obey the laws, good for them.

Yeah, my car is illegal as all hell. Let's call it... non violent protest. ^_^
Because MORALLY I don't believe it is wrong. Murder, that's MORALLY wrong to me. That's right, I have MY OWN BELIEFS and MORALES. Amazing huh, how I think for myself! Aren't I all grown up. Don't need some people in congress always telling me what my morales and beliefs should be.

I look forward to more of this.

I'm enjoying it just as much as you are, trust me. It's been a while since I've had a good ol' debate like the ones from FA, before the site went to shit.

I don't bag anyone for disagreeing with the law, they have that right. If the law is good for the commonwealth then yes I do find fault in someone not agreeing with it, but again they made that choice based on their opinions. But my opinion is based on the law, while yours is based on what you think the law should be. That's the difference. Until the law is rewritten, your opinion can't be justified by just saying "I don't like it". If that's the way the system worked, people would be changing laws daily just because they didn't agree with them, and not because they actually saw an error or mistake or an injustice, or saw that it even though it was good for the majority the minority deserved a break.

[PRADOgy]

but on a serious note, did ANYBODY get a ticket from these random checkpoints or sent to the ref or got towed away, etc etc[/quote]


good qustion

[TheSquidd]

Originally Posted by R240NA

I'm enjoying it just as much as you are, trust me. It's been a while since I've had a good ol' debate like the ones from FA, before the site went to shit.

I don't bag anyone for disagreeing with the law, they have that right. If the law is good for the commonwealth then yes I do find fault in someone not agreeing with it, but again they made that choice based on their opinions. But my opinion is based on the law, while yours is based on what you think the law should be. That's the difference. Until the law is rewritten, your opinion can't be justified by just saying "I don't like it". If that's the way the system worked, people would be changing laws daily just because they didn't agree with them, and not because they actually saw an error or mistake or an injustice, or saw that it even though it was good for the majority the minority deserved a break.

Like I said it's a losing fight, but one I will fight. ^_^

[steve shadows]

Originally Posted by R240NA

I don't bag anyone for disagreeing with the law, they have that right. If the law is good for the commonwealth then yes I do find fault in someone not agreeing with it, but again they made that choice based on their opinions. But my opinion is based on the law, while yours is based on what you think the law should be. That's the difference. Until the law is rewritten, your opinion can't be justified by just saying "I don't like it". If that's the way the system worked, people would be changing laws daily just because they didn't agree with them, and not because they actually saw an error or mistake or an injustice, or saw that it even though it was good for the majority the minority deserved a break.

If the law is used as a tool simply to suppress a single demographic which then becomes an unspoken socio-psychological vendetta of sorts for local municipalities and CHP in this case to take advantage of "to make a statement" as I have heard or "make an example" as an officer once put it to me the it is ethically outside the typical reasoning for common law. It has now become a way to regulate thought or free will. It's extremely hard to fight a law like this when bureaucrats in CA sign new legislation every day that does absolutely nothing to help the environmental crisis and then put even more restrictions of persons ability invest their money in certain modifications. My point is how does a law (in common law terms) support a betterment of society if A. the law does not make any change that protects society from negative externalities B. does not effect the air quality or protect citizens from themselves or others. If these cars pass the sniffer test what is the point of the law?

I agree with the fact that you should know that you are breaking the law and not BS yourself about it, and then of course not bitch when it comes down on your ass. By all means.

It's just unfortunate that in CA we have millions upon millions of undocumented workers with expired registrations, often carrying loads of cocaine and heroine in their wheel wells and polluting as much as 3 240sx, running on 3 cylinders with no CAT's dragging mowing equipment to pool cleaning gear and these are rarely the targets of crack downs in the smog net operations by the DMV and CHP. Its selective enforcement of a non-selective law which in theory does not embody the spirit of a common law and instead should be re-written by the policy makers to refine the aim of the laws purpose.

It’s a way to make money.

My question to you sir, is do you break smog laws? Maybe not state, but do you drive a vehicle to and from the track or anywhere on a public road ever that is not 100% legal? I'm sure in violation of some federal EPA regulation somewhere in some book...If so why are you throwing stones in a glass house?

btw, the total inability to enforce a law because the majortiy of the population begins to ignore the law creates a culture of in-feasible enforcement which as we have seen at least in our state can lead to such grassroots movements to make a final shove off balance of local and state laws regarding personal choice as with the majiuana movement and now the resulting mass level of legality of the drug by simply getting a doctors note and card.

we can get more in socio-political theory on a microcosmic level if you want. At the end of the day the law is right in a fight againt the individual in such a trivial matter, which is why you all need to start writing your congressmen and getting involved with SEMA and CARB if you want to keep your shit in CA.

There's a whole thread on smog legal sr's on this board too.

[ranger240]

Originally Posted by AbsoluteZero

Maybe we can find a way to make an sr look like a ka

that'd be hilarious, someone do it.. it'd slove all you cali guys current problems, while giving you the pain in the ass new problem of mounting a fake distributor, valve cover and crap on an engine

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

um how are you going to hide a turbo, and intercooler piping and the fact they cant read your ignition timing on the #1 plug wire

[TheSquidd]

Originally Posted by steve shadows

You win.

Oh and he lives in GA, I'm pretty sure he could drive to the track with a pot of burning oil in his passenger seat and get away with it.

[AbsoluteZero]

Originally Posted by tknbkthrsdy4anfg

um how are you going to hide a turbo, and intercooler piping and the fact they cant read your ignition timing on the #1 plug wire

A blanket!

hahahahhaa I dunno... it was just a funny thought though

I know it wouldn't be possible

[projectRDM]

Originally Posted by steve shadows

If the law is used as a tool simply to suppress a single demographic which then becomes an unspoken socio-psychological vendetta of sorts for local municipalities and CHP in this case to take advantage of "to make a statement" as I have heard or "make an example" as an officer once put it to me the it is ethically outside the typical reasoning for common law. It has now become a way to regulate thought or free will. It's extremely hard to fight a law like this when bureaucrats in CA sign new legislation every day that does absolutely nothing to help the environmental crisis and then put even more restrictions of persons ability invest their money in certain modifications. My point is how does a law (in common law terms) support a betterment of society if A. the law does not make any change that protects society from negative externalities B. does not effect the air quality or protect citizens from themselves or others. If these cars pass the sniffer test what is the point of the law?

I agree with the fact that you should know that you are breaking the law and not BS yourself about it, and then of course not bitch when it comes down on your ass. By all means.

It's just unfortunate that in CA we have millions upon millions of undocumented workers with expired registrations, often carrying loads of cocaine and heroine in their wheel wells and polluting as much as 3 240sx, running on 3 cylinders with no CAT's dragging mowing equipment to pool cleaning gear and these are rarely the targets of crack downs in the smog net operations by the DMV and CHP. Its selective enforcement of a non-selective law which in theory does not embody the spirit of a common law and instead should be re-written by the policy makers to refine the aim of the laws purpose.

It’s a way to make money.

My question to you sir, is do you break smog laws? Maybe not state, but do you drive a vehicle to and from the track or anywhere on a public road ever that is not 100% legal? I'm sure in violation of some federal EPA regulation somewhere in some book...If so why are you throwing stones in a glass house?

btw, the total inability to enforce a law because the majortiy of the population begins to ignore the law creates a culture of in-feasible enforcement which as we have seen at least in our state can lead to such grassroots movements to make a final shove off balance of local and state laws regarding personal choice as with the majiuana movement and now the resulting mass level of legality of the drug by simply getting a doctors note and card.

we can get more in socio-political theory on a microcosmic level if you want. At the end of the day the law is right in a fight againt the individual in such a trivial matter, which is why you all need to start writing your congressmen and getting involved with SEMA and CARB if you want to keep your shit in CA.

There's a whole thread on smog legal sr's on this board too.

Very well spoken. This is probably the best debate I've seen on this site and proves that not only are there educated and well versed members on this board, but that they're willing to speak up as well.

Without getting in too much since I'm limited right now on time, my car passes the required smog requirements and does so daily, on track or off. I wouldn't be so dedicated to my point if I too was an offender. That really would be hypocritical.

[projectRDM]

Originally Posted by TheSquidd

You win.

Oh and he lives in GA, I'm pretty sure he could drive to the track with a pot of burning oil in his passenger seat and get away with it.

But I might burn myself, so that's a bad idea.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

I think one of the issues that does have to do with cats and is part of the reason that SR's arent legal here (yet) is cold start emissions.
For those of you who don't know before a Catalyst is hot it does nothing!
Thats why passing an unloaded dyno sniffer test means nothing.

[LB.Motoring]

It isn't possible.

Pretty much, its so screwy its hard to discern all of the nonsense in cali.

[vvtisupra]

i want to roll up onto one and get high sided and ruin the day for them.

[sideways88]

glad my car is not running lol. i got no cat lol.

[hayaimoto]

Another Infamous So cal "ON-THE-SPOT-SMOG". Some big time BULLISH if you ask me.

[AbsoluteZero]

Im glad my car has a KA in it =D

[WERDdabuilder]

soo..driving down Archibald on my way to work. i saw some cones and whatnot. didnt think anything of it.

well..i get closer and see cops!!! i was like FACK! i couldnt bust a bitch or they would get me. so i just drove down and thought they would let me go since they were letting couple cars in front of me go.

well..out of 3 cars..the cop tells me to pull over(just my luck). right when this happened i was like..crying inside ha. i had my phone ready to call my boss telling him i wasnt going to make it blah blah.i pull over and i see the smog machine shit in front of me. the guy doing the smog was asking questions.

Smog man: What the make and year of your car sir?
Me: 1990 Nissan 240sx.

my car was still on since they didnt tell me to turn it off or anything. im sure he heard my exhaust(nur-spec) when i pulled up. he was doing stuff on the computer he was using. he looks at me and looks at my car...takes a walk around my car see my exhaust. comes back to me and gives me a look. i was straight shitting bricks son.

he tells the cop "hey, im letting this guy go". after i heard that, it felt like 1000lbs were lifted off my chest.

this was like a month ago. a black guy(smog man) saved my life!
this was going south on Archibald in between 7th and 6th street. havent spotted any other ones around rancho/ontario area.

[AbsoluteZero]

Originally Posted by WERDdabuilder

soo..driving down Archibald on my way to work. i saw some cones and whatnot. didnt think anything of it.

well..i get closer and see cops!!! i was like FACK! i couldnt bust a bitch or they would get me. so i just drove down and thought they would let me go since they were letting couple cars in front of me go.

well..out of 3 cars..the cop tells me to pull over(just my luck). right when this happened i was like..crying inside ha. i had my phone ready to call my boss telling him i wasnt going to make it blah blah.i pull over and i see the smog machine shit in front of me. the guy doing the smog was asking questions.

Smog man: What the make and year of your car sir?
Me: 1990 Nissan 240sx.

my car was still on since they didnt tell me to turn it off or anything. im sure he heard my exhaust(nur-spec) when i pulled up. he was doing stuff on the computer he was using. he looks at me and looks at my car...takes a walk around my car see my exhaust. comes back to me and gives me a look. i was straight shitting bricks son.

he tells the cop "hey, im letting this guy go". after i heard that, it felt like 1000lbs were lifted off my chest.

this was like a month ago. a black guy(smog man) saved my life!
this was going south on Archibald in between 7th and 6th street. havent spotted any other ones around rancho/ontario area.

Yay for mr smogman saving your life!

[ixfxi]

Funny debate. I agree more with Russ, especially since he really isnt speaking his opinion, he was just stating FACTS. The bottom line is, many people just dont like hearing FACTS, period. They get upset and bent out of shape, as they're rather be on a forum where people say "yeah man, fuck that shit.. fuck the police... fuck smog" and a bunch of other useless shit spewing out of their mouths.

However, I also agreed with Squidd.. laws are made by people, and designed to be changed over time. Some laws are for the better, some for the worse - but its never for one person, its always for the best of the majority. In this case, we're the minority. We're BARELY enjoying a sport that is dying, and in X amount of years.. most likely wont be allowed on public streets. If you ask me, I just think petrol cars in general will be too expensive to use - period. Our cars will be beautiful paperweights sitting in our garages, maybe getting an occasional track day from time to time.

The thing I did want to say, to Squidd especially.. is that I think its just absolutely pointless and stupid NOT to run a cat. I mean, theres really no significant reason to run it.. besides wanting that little extra amount of power. If you put ANY miles on your car, meaning.. even if its a car you take out on weekends.. its silly not to run it. Ever been to an underground parking lot and get stuck in traffic waiting for the ticket gate to open? Its not fun having to sit there idling behind OR even inside of a car with no cat. Its just poison.

Personally, I could care less if you do or dont run a cat.. I mean, it wont effect me. But the truth of the matter is, a high flow cat is cheap and easy solution. My SR passes everything but the visual, how hard is it to conform to that? Not hard, if you ask me...

[codyace]

All the thread aside, I think it's Ironic how a little turbo 4 cylinder gets denied inspection/em inspection, yet GM is allowed to release a 8.1 litre V8 that has about as much emissions equipment as something that came out in 1968.

More Irony:

In the big truck world, trucks are burning more fuel, in order to burn clean. Odd how it takes MORE fuel to burn cleaner.

[Dream240]

I got to this one a little late but here's my take.

I really have to agree with both Russ and Squidd but on different parts.

Russ, I agree that the laws are put there for a reason, i.e. Megan's law, most of the time. Here's an article done about our very area:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cr...et-racing.html

The stats don't lie. People die due to street racing. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the "youth" Russ is refering to race their cars daily. I mean honestly how often do you guys jump in your car to just go to the mall and end up lighting the tires at the street light cause you're sitting next to a civic or integra? Happens ALOT.

Alot of these "laws" started by old bureaucrats that saw the stats and felt steps needed to be taken. And yes the whole "ricer" crackdown started out with good intentions. The laws began as a way to discourage us Cali driver's to start modifying our cars so that we would then be less inclined to race. I mean really when you think about it is your car as fun with a stock muffler, laggy acceleration, and a 4" ride height? no.

But I'd say over the past 10 years it's gotten to the point where law enforcement has now put us in our own discrimination bracket, "The Ricer". And going from my own experience, I have yet to be pulled over with either of my 240s because my cars never really portrayed the raced out look. All of my run ins with the law have been due to me driving like an idiot. Speeding mostly.

I agree with Russ that the majority of the youths on this forum and most others are just joining in on the common perception that "cops are pigs, laws are for suckers, going fast is all that matters, and how many races did you get into today?" This mindset has now caused the laws, law officials, and law enforcement to evolve their way of thinking too.

You're always going to get those cops that just take things way to far. But honestly don't come on here and cry about getting busted for having illegal mods, getting pulled over and having the "pig" give you a hard time. He didn't force you to put those things on your car, take the ticket like a man or get a Vespa.

And as far as Squidd's side, I agree that people should voice up their opinions and take a side, take a stand for what you believe in. But coming on Zilvia and telling us that cops suck and laws suck isn't helping your case. These guys need to take their fight to the courts. And you better have your ammo cause the car/smog legal battle is a tough one.

I think you have a point about taking a stand, but I also think that when you say you respect other peoples beliefs on laws it's obvious you don't. Hence the "I'll break as many laws as I need to" mentality. I mean if you are going to say that laws are made to be broken then you really DON'T respect guys like Russ and his views. You're down right pissing in his law-abiding face. While your standpoint and views are fine, and your total and complete right as an American, don't try to come off as being the fair-good guy by saying you respect others and their views. Cause when it comes down to it you're really not.

And yes Russ really can't relate to us in California unless he's lived here before, driving any modded car is like walking on egg shells. Everytime you see a cop you can't help but wonder if you're going to get pulled over. My car is still the stock KADE with only bolt ons and I do have a cat and pass smog, but since my intake is a knock off I don't have a CARB number for it and would probably get a ticket for that if I ever got pulled over and inspected. But really it's my own fault since I didn't buy the name brand Injen stuff that comes with the carb # and makes your life that much easier.

So are all the laws there for our safety or to just make money? Well really both. The govt figures they can kill two birds by appeasing the majority that want safer roads by making racer laws and at the same time snatch alot of cash from anyone who violates those laws. Where do you think that money goes? Have you ever looked at a county spending chart?

http://www.countyofriverside.us/port..._schema=PORTAL

That money has to come from somewhere. So there you go hope this wasn't too long to read. And my view...? To each his own. I smog my car and drive as safe as I can, try to keep it legal. Will I pay less in tickets than you? Probably. But my car won't look as cool as yours, ah well. The open California highways are worth it (when they're open)

Peace

[wootwoot]

Really Squid, if you were to get your car impounded I would laugh because you deserve it.