V8 240sx FAQ

[bigJ86]

weight for a 302 with iron heads is around 460-480lbs + t-5 transmission is 85 lbs

so a 302 with tranny is 545-565 wich is lighter then a KA with auto tranny......

[ledzeppelin240]

Wow, I never realized how wide the 4.6 is.

so a 302 with tranny is 545-565 wich is lighter then a KA with auto tranny

Does that include exhaust manifolds and all accessories? Cause I just don't see how a iron block & iron head v8 weighs less than a 4 cyl with aluminum head...

[bigJ86]

Does that include exhaust manifolds and all accessories? Cause I just don't see how a iron block & iron head v8 weighs less than a 4 cyl with aluminum head...

ok i just did a lil more searching...... a 302 long block..... weight is 460 lbs....... so with all the accessories.... will be about the same weight as a KA... wich aint bad since it dose have iron heads stock...... just switch to aluminum heads, and u will save 50lbs and gain about 40hp.....

[TheWolf]

Got an idea where to get some beefed up axles? I agree about the diff holding but I don't think the axles will.

[doc99]

Power steering lines?
Brake booster?
A/C?

I'm sure there are adapters, just wondering if they're included or if Hinson knows what's required.

[drift freaq]

Question Luke, why did you compare the LS1 with the 6 speed against a KA with an Auto tranny? Everyone knows the Auto tranny on the KA weighs more than the manual 5 speed, a lot more.

[Sean1978]

Question Luke, why did you compare the LS1 with the 6 speed against a KA with an Auto tranny? Everyone knows the Auto tranny on the KA weighs more than the manual 5 speed, a lot more.

I'm guessing it was to illustrate that the swap is comperable in weight to a factory configuration, showing that it's not too much weight for the chassis to handle.

Is this V8 FAQ just going to cover LS1 swaps? I understand they have the best power for weight but I would like to here more about other V8's as well..

[lilredstiffy]

I helped put the ls1 in the fd car pictured above. He is sponsored by hinson, but the mounts are a joke design wise (very simple). The crossmember is slightly modified to accomodate the oil pan, the crossmember is spaced down from the frame rails, triangle brackets are used to attach the engine to the crossmember with corvette motor mount plates, and the transmission mount is anything you want to fab that runs from frame rail to frame rail. The transmission is very close to the tunnel, but if spaced properly it will clear (ie hinson mounts).

LS1 is completely easy, only issue is builidng or finding headers that fit. The hinson ones fit fine of course.

[haveblue]

so the factory harness and ecu was used?
did you keep power steering?
did you keep AC?

[blu808]

didnt keep ac. dont need it.

I do have power steering on my FD. I even have an adjuster that i can turn the pressure up and down with.

[TheWolf]

Well I'm curious now, does the subframe on the 240sx have to run on spacers to get the tranny to clear? Or was he making stuff up to talk trash? Because that should affect a variety of things in the front end suspension department.

[blu808]

Yes crossmember does use spacers.

[lilredstiffy]

If you don't want to use some sort of spacer, be prepared to cut/hammer/rebuild the transmission tunnel.

Spacing it down really isn't affecting too much in the suspension, just the mounting point on the control arm which is attached with a balljoint to everything else.

[blu808]

yea it just acts as if the car is lowered 1/2" more then it really is. Not a big deal.

[95KA-Turbo]

So does the 1200 dollar motor mounting kit include the stuff you need to space the sub frame and move the steering rack and everything, or is there still some custom fabbing to be done by the person doing the swap?


Edit:

Also, does the mounting kit allow for the stock oil pan to be used, or is it nessisary to use the GTO oil pan? Also, I assume because of the steering column it is not possilbe to run stock headers? Since this is probably the case, can you guys offer steel headers instead of stainless? It should cut the price of those headers in half. That's all the questions I have come up with so far...basically what I am trying to ask is if someone were to buy all of the stuff you guys sell to do this, is it just a bolt on and drop in procedure with only basic wiring that needs to be done.

[doc99]

Originally Posted by 95KA-Turbo

So does the 1200 dollar motor mounting kit include the stuff you need to space the sub frame and move the steering rack and everything, or is there still some custom fabbing to be done by the person doing the swap?

+1 I'd like to verify this too.

Also will the stock 240 diff gearing work well with the T56 gearing? Not sure what the ratios are on it.

[2forty]

so exactly what ballpark figure are we looking at here for that beast to be running? some people posted 10k for DIY? thats seems a little high? I mean bare bones swap would put you around 6-7k correct?

[g6civcx]

This is what I found from my preliminary research. Please correct me if I have something wrong.

So far for me the best engine is the LS1 from the late model Camaro/Firebird Fbody. It will keep the car street legal and allow you to keep some of the emissions stuff. How much I don't know since I need to dig more into it.

You can get good, usable drivetrains for under $5k. What I was going to do is just get a shortblock and have a shop do a mild rebuild for reliability. From what I found, the bottom end is pretty solid if all you want is 300 bhp. Maybe get some goodies from ARP to reinforce it a little more, and definitely a better oil system (dry sump of some sort) for roadracing.

I figure mid teens for the Hinson kit. I'm going to go ahead and allow some more budget for some final installation and fabrication if necessary.

The only thing I don't know about is the driveshaft and rear end, but I'm sure I'll figure it out once I get in touch with the folks at Hinsons.

So right now I'm looking at a conservative estimate of about low teens for a turnkey setup. This will allow me to attend a full season of roadracing without a rebuild (I hope), and I'm hoping it will be easier to find parts to feed the motor.

At least I can sell my SR to help fund some of it. Bye bye turbo. Hello V8

[g6civcx]

How do the exhaust collectors line up with the stock exhaust routing?

Thanks for your help.

[blu808]

Well after the tranny you can make it "Y" into a single 3.5" tube in the stock location.

Heres my FD exhaust.

[SicBastard]

Hi guys,

You all should really check out what's going on over at LS1tech.com. I go by GIGAPUNK over there if you ever have any questions. There's is more than one person over there who has finished this swap. I recently picked up a 98 SE and a 2003 vette LS1 and a camaro SS T56. I'm going to be hacking into the firewall this summer and doing things the hard way. Without dropping the crossmember I will be able to sit the engine substantially lower than is possible with the GTO pan.

You guys can all argue about engines until the cows come home. But you can't argue the fact that the LS1 is just about the most affordable, lightest, engine that reliably and EASILY will put out 400 hp. And the fact that it is domestic does matter. The availability and lack of shipping from Japan add up fast. And besides that, the engine discussion becomes a pointless conversation if you're looking into a kit for the 240, cuz there's only one, and it uses the LS1.

This is going to be fun...

[Lordrandall]

Originally Posted by SicBastard

Hi guys,

You all should really check out what's going on over at LS1tech.com. I go by GIGAPUNK over there if you ever have any questions.

Hey, I've seen your posts over on LS1 as well as Freshalloy. It looks like using the R33 x-member makes it much easier for headers to fit.

I'll be doing this swap in the future. Maybe after my kids are out of daycare.

[irax]

If you skim thrugh it and get past the old ass Ford Vs Chevy BS. you will find some usefull stuff.



here is ib's short hand of this topic

get a hensin kit,

if you go with an LSx motor and drive train
get a gto oil pain and pickup

if you use the kit to as a basis for a different V6/8/10 swap your on your own.

you can keep your AC luke didnt want to,
you can keep your PS luke has adjustable valve,
you can get beefier axles at LS auto or other places


This swap was created because the LS/LT motors are lighter and more powerfull out the box then KA/RB. And as an out of the box aplication is capeable to being smog legal for some states. They are working on a way to make it legal for Communistafornia and the only reason why it is a problem is because the posision of the steering colum/rack so custom headers are needed. I'm sure there are Carb Legal headers for that motor, not sure if they will work for this swap though.


Any motor can be made as fast as you can afford, not dream...


and No Cosworth is not Ford.

[mrmephistopheles]

Ok, I've just gone thru and lowered the collective post count by 72.
Keep this thread ON-TOPIC, and post FACTS, not speculation.
I've had to delete shit posts and even some semi-informative, but irrelevant posts.
Irax's post above does a good job of summing some of that shit up.

When this thread reaches 5 pages again, I'll have a volunteer (Luke?) go thru and condense the whole damn thing into a single (if possible) post and we'll start over with v2.0

I deleted some shit about axles because I wanted to make an axle-specific thread that we could all contribute to (and link to from here if necessary).

[ledzeppelin240]

I was wondering if anyone has looked into dry sump oil systems. That would allow you to position the engine as low as possible, but that will require custom engine mounts which does not help because I was planning on buying the Hinson kit.

[SicBastard]

In regards to the rear end gearing question. I'm pretty sure the manual camaros cam with 3.42 and the autos with 2.73. A common upgrade is 3.73s. But the consensus w/ the Camaro Drag racers seems to be that the 3.73s aren't worth the trouble, and most recommend going straight up to the 4.10. The 240s come stock with 4.08. So I figure we are pretty lucky. The only problem is that you are probably going to have to make an extra shift in the 1320 if you are planning on doing it over 115 mph. If serious MPH is on your agenda, you may want to look at something closer to the 3.73. Drag isn't my main concern, so I'm going to stick with my stock 4.08 s14 VLSD as long as possible

I looked into Dry sumping pretty seriously. ARE, Armstrong Race Engineering, out side Sacramento in Orangevale CA, makes more than one pan/kit to dry sump the LS1, beautiful stuff.

But you are really limited as to how low you can place the engine by the transmission. The t56 hangs almost 5 inches below the bottom of the block! The LS running Cadillac Race Cars machined an adapter to run the transmissions on their sides!

Plus there are serious problems with running a dry sump on the street. Cost was a big one for me. Minimum $700, and that would be cheap. Then there's the extra weight, between the extra fluid, lines and pump expect to add near50lbs. Oh and the fact that if a simple belt breaks or comes off you have no oil flow, followed shortly by no bearings. Plus with the cross member in the way you can't even lower the pan to the level of your ground clearance, only to the level of the rack!

For me it just wasn't worth the money, risk, and weight. Especially since you can't take advantage of being able to lower the engine to the degree that drysumps normally afford you.

I'm just going to port an LH6 pump and go.

[ledzeppelin240]

Thats interesting information and like you I will not be using dry sump.

Also LS1TECH does have a lot of good information and here is a like for the DIY throttle body porting, very comprehensive.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...=139142&page=2

[OJmobileII]

if u plan on doing a gm small block here is some info that is no longer listed after the clean up:

unless u plan on doing a rebuild, i would not suggest an LT1 motor due to the low quality of pullouts that i have seen. if u do find one in good shape u can use the money saved vs buying an LS1 for mods making it more powerful than a stock LS1. one main downfall is the gen ii intake is inferior to the intake on the Gen III/IV motors.

besides the LS1, LS6, and LS2... GM put an LS-style V8 in their trucks/suvs. they come in many different versions. these motors are often easier to find, have lower miles, and are cheaper. they r mostly cast iron block and aluminum heads weighing in at roughly 65lbs more than a standard LS1/6/2. u need to use the f-body accessories and intake for install.

4.8L (LR4) - found in large vans and smaller trucks. most people swap these out in favor of the 6.0. they have a shorter stroke than the motors i will later mention. the rods r longer (consensus: easier to break). factory ~ 270hp, 285 ft-lbs

5.3L (LM7)- the iron block version of this motor is easy to find and might be the ticket for a budget builder. only problem is the heads dont flow (same heads found on 4.8L) very well. also has the same block w/ the same bore as 4.8L, but w/ a longer stroke. when putting in a different cam u need to swap over most of the valvetrain from an LS6. i believe this motor is 9:5:1 compression w/ factory ~ 285 hp, 320 ft-lbs

5.3L (LM4) - this is the aluminum block version of the above mentioned motor. it can be pulled from '04 Trailblazer EXT, Envoy XL, and SSR (i think the '04 Rainier too). differences r the lighter block (equal in weight to LS1/6/2). also compression is bumped up (maybe 9:9:1) producing more power. factory ~ 295 hp, 330 ft-lbs

6.0L (LQ4) - bored version of cast iron 5.3L. big difference is obviously the displacement, but also has high flowing aluminum heads (beware of the pre-01 motors which have iron heads that u dont want for various reasons). the compression is back down to 9:5:1 on these motors. factory ~ 325 hp, 365 ft-lbs

6.0L (LQ9) - "performance" version of above motor found in Silverado SS and 02-05 Escalades. internals r slightly different beefier rods, coated piston skirts, flat top pistons, and higher compression (something like 10:1ish). power goes up too. factory ~ 345 hp, 380 ft-lbs

that is all i can spit off right now. feel free to correct any of my information. this was all pieced together from searching the web in my spare time.

my conclusion:

if ur looking for a budget build and r concerned about a little extra weight try to locate an LM4 (prices have skyrocketed on this as of late though... can almost find an LS1 in decent shape for same price)

if the extra 65lbs doesnt bother u, go big or go home. 6.0 motors r more bang for ur buck. the extra money is worth the increased displacement, higher flowing heads, and various cam options.

the cast iron motors r better for boost, of course. big boost F/I f-body guys use the cast blocks. the LQ4 is better for forced induction due to the lower compression, but if u want to run anything over 10psi (people go 14 w/ meth but who knows for how long), u better get some aftermarket pistons and rods.

LQ9 would be the best N/A motor, but only if u get a good deal over the price of an LS1/6/2.

P.S. thank u Mods for "taking out the garbage"

EDIT: i guess my post didnt get deleted. i jus assumed it did. so i guess this is halfway a repost. oh well, this post has more info than my previous one. hope u find it useful.

[TURBI]

Here's a faq: What 1/4 times do you get with those v8's in your 240's?

[SicBastard]

I fully expect 11.5 @ 128 in the 1320.