KA24DET OR SR20DET??

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from minime686 on 2:14 pm on Jan. 14, 2002
you cant say an engine is better just because this tuner got 800hp and this tuner only got 400hp cause thats bullshit. the reason its so hard to get high hp from a ka is just because they dont make a lot of parts for it. they make more for the sr. in the end no matter what the ka would win because of its displacement advantage. &quot;theres no replacement for displacement&quot; i dont care if you have 7 turbos and 6 superchargers in the end the 8.0 liter v10 will beat the 2.0 liter four banger... ill finish this later i gotta go</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Logically a 2.4 liter should produce more power then a 2.0 Liter. But that does'nt include any design flaws, instabilitie's in the block, completly bad flow in the head design (not saying the KA doe's just throwing some things out there) Since were talking KA vs SR the .4 liter difference would be almost neglible. Now lets make it a SR20DET versus 2.4 Liter Cavalier engine. Seriously which one would you rather have in your car and tune. The Cavalier engine cause it has 2.4 Liters? There nice engines but not that nice. Would the Cav Engine make more power in an all out Drag setup, maybe. But thats all out drag almost every person here will never make a car with that much HP that they would hit a &quot;cieling&quot; on the 2.0 engine compared to the 2.4. I hope that made alittle sense since i'm confused now.

[zephyr]

&quot;theres no replacement for displacement&quot;

...except good engineering

[tnord]

anybody ever considered the weights of KA, SR, and CA? i don't know what they are, but it should be considered, the S14 has a 53/47 weight distribution right? so if you drop 100 lbs or so from putting in the smaller engines we're getting closer to 50/50 aren't we? and remember that reducing a cars weight improves acceleration, braking, and most importantly handling, if you wanna talk road racing handling is more important than HP, i continue to watch an E30 (4cyl BMW M3) beat up on guys with 2x the motor and more than 2x the displacement (camaros, corvettes, mustangs) at local events, so please don't be suckered into the raw hp trap

[thewholefnshow]

That point about displacement is total bullshit. Sorry, but it is. If you have a crappy crappy engine, it sucks no matter how big it is. Like there are 50 different 2 liters out there... I can tell you one thing, you can tune the shite out of all of them and they will not all make exactly the same power.... nowhere near... can anybody argue that? And a dodge 340 could make more power than the 360... there is another on... so you know. And the 350's over the last 20 years have been drastically different. Under your logic I can make the same power with all of them right?

[Zemus]

Im a man of few words, but all i have to say is, GET RB, RB20, RB25 or RB26DETT, can on skyline power, and u can get those up MUCH higher. thats my plan

[240booster]

ok ok i think a Mod can lock this thread up now :-P LMAO i made my decision like a week ago to go KA-T because &nbsp;..... &nbsp; &nbsp;I know my shit but im not an expert, a KA-T is almost in my range and with a little more studying i should almost be able to get it all done myself, &nbsp; an SR20 is MILES away from me!!! i don't have the time or money or experience or equipment to swap an engine out. Plus, I think that i can get out cheaper buy goin KA. Also, tremendously easy to find parts for the KA around here. Furthermore, I used to drive a V8 and love good ole feeling of neck breaking torque :-P. Finally, Im not looking for which engine can produce the MOST HP. Im only looking for around 300-400hp and be a practical car for me. I think the KA with some upgraded internals down the road will be perfect for me. :-P &nbsp; &nbsp; THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO GUYS.

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Oni on 3:14 pm on Jan. 14, 2002
Im a man of few words, but all i have to say is, GET RB, RB20, RB25 or RB26DETT, can on skyline power, and u can get those up MUCH higher. thats my plan
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Everyone gives nice insightful posts, and you give this? &nbsp;Come on atleast put in an arguement for the engine's, not just &quot;WOW it's in the Skyline it is awesome&quot; &nbsp;IMHO the RB20 isn't much worth it over an SR swap, it would be more of a hassle to install and be harder to find parts for. As for the other RB engines, yes you can get great HP but the engines aren't cheap to buy and mantain, and not as easy to install as an SR/CA/KA-T. &nbsp;When you start getting high HP with a CA/SR it will be ALOT cheaper to fix things that get broke (my head gasket case in point) then an RB engine (trust me i have seen some prices for RB parts, the clutch alone for a rb25 was crazy, don't remeber the exact price but it was nuts,it was not pretty, now add the fact that u would need to pay for shipping $$$)

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from ca18guy on 4:41 pm on Jan. 14, 2002
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Oni on 3:14 pm on Jan. 14, 2002
Im a man of few words, but all i have to say is, GET RB, RB20, RB25 or RB26DETT, can on skyline power, and u can get those up MUCH higher. thats my plan
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Everyone gives nice insightful posts, and you give this? Come on atleast put in an arguement for the engine's, not just &quot;WOW it's in the Skyline it is awesome&quot; IMHO the RB20 isn't much worth it over an SR swap, it would be more of a hassle to install and be harder to find parts for. As for the other RB engines, yes you can get great HP but the engines aren't cheap to buy and mantain, and not as easy to install as an SR/CA/KA-T. When you start getting high HP with a CA/SR it will be ALOT cheaper to fix things that get broke (my head gasket case in point) then an RB engine (trust me i have seen some prices for RB parts, the clutch alone for a rb25 was crazy, don't remeber the exact price but it was nuts,it was not pretty, now add the fact that u would need to pay for shipping $$$)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

thank you ca18...oh btw can you send some ca18 info my way?

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Niseslut on 5:14 pm on Jan. 14, 2002
thank you ca18...oh btw can you send some ca18 info my way?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

What do u want to know? The best CA post is this one <a href="http://www.zilvia.net/forums/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=2&topic=918" target='_blank'>http://www.zilvia.net/forums/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=2&amp;topic=918</a>

[Tuck&Poke]

yes there is no replacement for displacement i dont care how much you engineer the car. &nbsp;if you do the exact same thing to two engines except one is a i-4 and the other one is a i-6 the i-6 will have more power. &nbsp;theres no two ways about it. &nbsp;yea fine the sr is engineered better than the ka but look at the ca its engineered better than the sr and it wont make as much power as an sr.

[S14KAT]

Look, I've never been one to root for the favorite here, and I'm not about to start now. &nbsp;It seems to me that most ppl who have said something on this thread think the SR is the best. &nbsp;And thats great, I have nothing against any motor, or anyones opinions. &nbsp;Like I said, I don't root for the favorite, so obviously my choice is the KA. &nbsp;PPL often say &quot;show me a KA that has 700+ horse like the Jun Silvia&quot; &nbsp;I say look at the support. &nbsp;Like minime said B4, up until recently has the KA even been recognized. &nbsp;Anyone know where I can buy a KA stroker kit?? &nbsp;Guess what, they don't make one. &nbsp;Its aftermarket support which advances anything, that goes for anything, not just motors. &nbsp;I'm sure if Jun, a company which specializes in engine internals threw everything they could into a KA, it too would break the 700 horse barrier. &nbsp;For anyone wondering what the KA is capable of, just take a look at http://www.houston-imports.com/duy.html and tell me what you think. &nbsp;Duy is pumping out 600 horses with nitrous from a motor that wasn't designed with a turbo in mind. &nbsp;I hope I didn't come across harsh in any way, I'm just the type of guy who likes the underdog...........:)

[Tuck&Poke]

#### this is a good topic. aight this ones directed to ca18guy. &nbsp;now you said that weak parts in the engine are flaws NO F**KING S**T WHY THE #### WOULD NISSAN BUILD UP THE KA'S BLOCK IF IT WASNT INTENDED TO HAVE A TURBO! of course the sr has a stronger block. &nbsp;fine you wanna get technical wtf do you think would happen if nissan made a ka24det huh? they would have beefed up the block gastkets fuel pump etc etc... and quess what!? it would have produced more horespower than the sr20det. &nbsp; now if your gonna say make oh... 600hp out of both engines i dont know bout you but i wouldnt stay with the same block on either engine. &nbsp;i would change the fuel pump injectors connecting rods pistions crank gaskets. &nbsp;it would be almost a new engine no matter which one i pick. &nbsp;no only this but keep in mind most jpeople dont have 600hp in either engine. &nbsp;400hp is alot and with either engine you could have stock internals running 400hp.

[Zemus]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from ca18guy on 3:41 pm on Jan. 14, 2002
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Oni on 3:14 pm on Jan. 14, 2002
Im a man of few words, but all i have to say is, GET RB, RB20, RB25 or RB26DETT, can on skyline power, and u can get those up MUCH higher. thats my plan
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Well its just that im pumped cuz i found a great deal on rb26dett install
Install and all engine componets installed for 9gs, (R34 engine) thats a great deal and TOTALY WORTH IT

Everyone gives nice insightful posts, and you give this? Come on atleast put in an arguement for the engine's, not just &quot;WOW it's in the Skyline it is awesome&quot; IMHO the RB20 isn't much worth it over an SR swap, it would be more of a hassle to install and be harder to find parts for. As for the other RB engines, yes you can get great HP but the engines aren't cheap to buy and mantain, and not as easy to install as an SR/CA/KA-T. When you start getting high HP with a CA/SR it will be ALOT cheaper to fix things that get broke (my head gasket case in point) then an RB engine (trust me i have seen some prices for RB parts, the clutch alone for a rb25 was crazy, don't remeber the exact price but it was nuts,it was not pretty, now add the fact that u would need to pay for shipping $$$)
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

[thewholefnshow]

I think that it is retarded to complain that a cars engine lacks aftermarket support... if it doesn't have it, it can't be as good, and therefore, well... it leave something to be desired. You summed it all up in your own argument for it. I am sur ethat if nissan thought that the KA was the best engine, it would be in the jspec cars. But it's not. It was put in the 240 over here for gas and emmision reasons. Pure and simple... it's a great engine. But I think that the biggest argument against it is that there is a reason there is more support for the sr, and a reason that it comes in the big guns over in japan, australia... and well anyone an ocean away from us.

[misnomer]

&quot;Best engine&quot; is a relative term. . .

[240booster]

I'VE CREATED A MOONNNSTTTTEERRRR!!!!! &nbsp; LMAO HELP SOME MOD PLEAZZE &nbsp;:-P &nbsp; &nbsp;Ok guys we could argue all year about which engine is better ..... the fact is that ne of these engines previously talked about can make more than enough hp for most any of our needs. It's all just a personal preference really of what engine u like better, ..... basically which one fits ur personality i think, CA rare and unusual, KA-T also a little rare creative, SR i guess u could say trendy and popular. But neway, noone is ever goin to win this argument let's just leave it at they r all kick ass engines and it's up to personal prefernce &nbsp;:-)

[Ni5mo180SX]

I agree with minime686 completly. And to compare the KA24 to the cavaliers 2.4(?) and say it comes down to engineering is b.s. The KA is just as well put together (if not better) then the SR. This is what Ive been saying all along. And to CA18guy:
&quot;Everyone gives nice insightful posts, and you give this? Come on atleast put in an arguement for the engine's, not just &quot;WOW it's in the Skyline it is awesome&quot; IMHO the RB20 isn't much worth it over an SR&quot;

Why dont you give us some sort of insight towards why you think the KA isnt reliable instead of what you've heard. I know for a fact that if you go to a Nissan dealership and ask which motor comes in more often (between the SR20DE and KA24DE) its definetly gonna be the SR. And not only would the KA be more powerful then the SR for max potential, it would be more powerful for less amount of money. Like Ive said in the past, spend about 4500 for the SR20 swap and you have a stock turbo with a stock motor putting out 220ish hp. Spend about 3300 on a turbo kit for the KA and you get an aftermarket turbo putting out the same amount of hp at less boost then the SRs for less cash. And the KA will be able to push a lot more hp on that aftermarket turbo compared to the stock SRs. Your only choice, spend more money and upgrade the turbo on the SR. So even when it comes down to hp to dollar value the KA is still ahead of the SR and CA. And to those people who are actually realistically thinking about the SR swap know theres no way in #### they're gonna pass smog.

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Ni5mo180SX on 12:39 am on Jan. 15, 2002
And to CA18guy:
&quot;Everyone gives nice insightful posts, and you give this? Come on atleast put in an arguement for the engine's, not just &quot;WOW it's in the Skyline it is awesome&quot; IMHO the RB20 isn't much worth it over an SR&quot;

Why dont you give us some sort of insight towards why you think the KA isnt reliable instead of what you've heard. I know for a fact that if you go to a Nissan dealership and ask which motor comes in more often (between the SR20DE and KA24DE) its definetly gonna be the SR. And not only would the KA be more powerful then the SR for max potential, it would be more powerful for less amount of money. Like Ive said in the past, spend about 4500 for the SR20 swap and you have a stock turbo with a stock motor putting out 220ish hp. Spend about 3300 on a turbo kit for the KA and you get an aftermarket turbo putting out the same amount of hp at less boost then the SRs for less cash. And the KA will be able to push a lot more hp on that aftermarket turbo compared to the stock SRs. Your only choice, spend more money and upgrade the turbo on the SR. So even when it comes down to hp to dollar value the KA is still ahead of the SR and CA. And to those people who are actually realistically thinking about the SR swap know theres no way in #### they're gonna pass smog.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I did say why the KA has had acouple reliability problems with turbo kits I said it's because there used and nobody knows how the prior owners has abused it, it's like that with any engine. KA's are very reliable engines, I never said they were'nt, I said some can be &quot;sketchy&quot; with turbo's added, which I contributed to my above statement. If I had a KA I would almost definatly keep it, rebuild it and slap a turbo on it. I don't have a KA, does'nt mean I hate it.

Ni5mo180SX: &quot;Like Ive said in the past, spend about 4500 for the SR20 swap and you have a stock turbo with a stock motor putting out 220ish hp. Spend about 3300 on a turbo kit for the KA and you get an aftermarket turbo putting out the same amount of hp at less boost then the SRs for less cash. And the KA will be able to push a lot more hp on that aftermarket turbo compared to the stock SRs. Your only choice, spend more money and upgrade the turbo on the SR. So even when it comes down to hp to dollar value the KA is still ahead of the SR and CA. &quot;

Thats great but what about the people with Extremely high milage cars (remember when I talk i'm mostly talking about the S13) Along with that turbo kit also add rebuild and what not, of course I have said in countless other topics, if you have a well taken care of low milage KA keep it.

Ni5mo180SX:&quot;And to those people who are actually realistically thinking about the SR swap know theres no way in #### they're gonna pass smog.&quot;

Not every state/area has emmissions.


(Edited by ca18guy at 9:35 am on Jan. 15, 2002)

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from minime686 on 7:52 pm on Jan. 14, 2002
#### this is a good topic. aight this ones directed to ca18guy. now you said that weak parts in the engine are flaws NO F**KING S**T WHY THE #### WOULD NISSAN BUILD UP THE KA'S BLOCK IF IT WASNT INTENDED TO HAVE A TURBO! of course the sr has a stronger block. fine you wanna get technical wtf do you think would happen if nissan made a ka24det huh? they would have beefed up the block gastkets fuel pump etc etc... and quess what!? it would have produced more horespower than the sr20det. now if your gonna say make oh... 600hp out of both engines i dont know bout you but i wouldnt stay with the same block on either engine. i would change the fuel pump injectors connecting rods pistions crank gaskets. it would be almost a new engine no matter which one i pick. no only this but keep in mind most jpeople dont have 600hp in either engine. 400hp is alot and with either engine you could have stock internals running 400hp.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Where in my any of my post's did I say the KA had weak part's? Why would you change the block at 600 HP? What would you &quot;change&quot; it to? Maybe have some proffesional work done to the block at 600HP but a 600HP street driven 4 cylinder isn't really likely. As for &quot;what if nissan made the KA with a turbo&quot; My guess is it would have similar HP to the SR. If nissan made a kadet it would have a T25 or T28 and would'nt make as much HP as a tuner turbo kit. To the person wondering why there is no KA stroker kit. It's because the engine is about as big as you can make it from the factory.

(Edited by ca18guy at 10<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>1 am on Jan. 15, 2002)

[Tuck&Poke]

if you put the same turbo the sr has on the ka its gonna make more power. &nbsp;now what i said bout the ka was just speculation and youd logically figure that a ka24det would have more power than the sr20det. &nbsp;you dont know what kind of turbo theyd put on it, neither do i. so no the hp wouldnt be the same. &nbsp;i would change the block to aluminum or some stronger metal than iron. &nbsp;if i had the kind of money for 600hp id have the kind of money for that. &nbsp;you cant trust a stock block for that kind of hp. &nbsp;its stressing it tooo much and that engine gots some miles so... its not at the top of its game &nbsp;

&quot;any design flaws, instabilitie's in the block, completly bad flow in the head design&quot; i under stood that as weak parts. &nbsp;

the ka hasnt had support because people just want a factory turbo. &nbsp;and it isnt hard to get an sr for a 240 not to mention the abundace of parts. &nbsp;now your probably one of those anti big block i hate v8's people. &nbsp;i mean yea i love imports cause of build quality reliability and just the way they can make smooth powerful engines with a friggin 4cyl. 2.0l engine. &nbsp;dont get my wrong the sr is a wonderfull engine. &nbsp;i just think its a waste of money to swap an sr into a 240 because the ka is a great engine with great potential if it only had more support from after market tuners. &nbsp;if &nbsp;you had the abundance of parts that &nbsp;you have for the sr in the ka i dont think people would be so quick to swap engines. &nbsp;honestly i cant tell &nbsp;you why the ka doestn get support from tuners. &nbsp;its not cause its a bad engine cause we all know thats not it. &nbsp;but for some reason it doesnt.

[ca18guy]

Minime686: &quot;. &nbsp;i would change the block to aluminum or some stronger metal than iron. &nbsp;if i had the kind of money for 600hp id have the kind of money for that. &nbsp;you cant trust a stock block for that kind of hp. &nbsp;its stressing it tooo much and that engine gots some miles so... its not at the top of its game.&quot; &nbsp;

Iron is stronger then aluminum, thats one of the weakness's of the SR. I don't see how it's possible to make an iron SR block. &nbsp;SR blocks have been none to handle 600 HP anyway.

Minime: &quot;any design flaws, instabilitie's in the block, completly bad flow in the head design&quot; i under stood that as weak parts. &nbsp; &quot;

Maybe you did'nt read past it, I said exactly &quot;But that does'nt include any design flaws, instabilitie's in the block, completly bad flow in the head design (not saying the KA doe's just throwing some things out there)&quot; Notice what I said in the parentheses.

Minime686:&quot;now your probably one of those anti big block i hate v8's people. &nbsp;&quot;

I swear u been on this board awhile. I always support the guys that show up wanting to put a V8 in there 240SX's. Do a search and in most V8 posts i'm in there saying it's a good idea. To tell you the truth once I sell my car it will most likely be the only and last 4 cylinder I ever own (unless I need a cheap family car) I really don't prefer 4 cylinder's.

Finally I relize when you say that a V10 Viper engine can make more HP then a SR your right about that. But 4 cyl. to 4 cyl. the .4 liter advantage is a very minute advantage that can be overcome with engineering.

[crazycuban]

aaaah jesus christ...i hate it when people oversimplify things. &nbsp;

first of all, just because the KA has .4 more liters of displacement, does NOT mean that if you just slap on the same size turbo as the SR, it'll make more power. &nbsp;runner design, port design, revability (if you're talking about power - remember that horsepower is torque multiplied by revs over...shit...5454?), exhaust design, manifold design, a number of things. &nbsp;the sr can handle BIG power on stock internals as well - ive heard of 400 hp stock internal sr's. &nbsp;of course the first thing i think is &quot;shit, thats gonna blow any second&quot;, but then again, same goes for the ka. &nbsp;
as far as money goes, its not 4000 to have an sr...yeah, fine, 4000 for an s14, but if you look, you can find an s13 for 2000, put it in, and have 1300 left over for a better exhaust and i/c. &nbsp;if you wanna budget, exhaust, i/c, and boost controller - - then who wins? &nbsp;
and as far as aftermarket support, yeah, the ka would be a GREAT motor if there was more aftermarket support, possibly better than the sr. &nbsp;but for now, there is not that aftermarket support. &nbsp;if i built an sr right now, i could get it to 700 or 800 hp using non-custom parts, if you built a ka right now, you really couldn't. &nbsp;

[Ni5mo180SX]

CA18guy: Thats great but what about the people with Extremely high milage cars (remember when I talk i'm mostly talking about the S13) Along with that turbo kit also add rebuild and what not, of course I have said in countless other topics, if you have a well taken care of low milage KA keep it.

If you have a older mileage KA in not so great condition then I would say go to an SR. But if you have a KA in good condition turbo it. The block on the KA is stronger then the block on an SR. The only reason you dont see more parts for the KA is because its a lot easier for them to bring over SRs then to R&amp;D a turbo kit for it and then back it with their companies name. And as far as KAs being &quot;sketchy&quot; with turbo added on, what do you base this on? If you want proof right now about the KA's reliabilty under turbocharged duty check out Jim Wolfs turbo kit for the KA motor putting out over 300Hp. Or contact Greddy and find out info. on their project KA24DET from a while back that was putting out over 350hp on a stock block. Then theres XS engineering building another kit for the KA. Im not trying to make a argument that the KA is the engine to have and the SR is for idiots, they're both top level engines and it all comes down to your personal preference, financial situation, etc.

[AceInHole]

my view on the KA is.... it's just as capable as the SR... the only design &quot;flaw&quot; in the KA are the thin skirts (or is it ring lands?... whatev... taken care of simply with a forged set of pistons). &nbsp;on top of that, spare KA's are everywhere. &nbsp;My plans include building up a KA on the side for when my engine eventually blows up.
I'm pretty confident in turbo'ing my high mileage KA (108k miles and counting). &nbsp;When it was dyno'ed a few months ago, it was pretty much stock, and put out 165 hp (estimated from 15% driveline loss). &nbsp;On top of that, if you peice your kit together, it's just plain cheaper than an SR, and puts out more power. &nbsp;
In the end, i might go to an SR, i might go to an RB25... but for now, I'm pretty set on blowing my KA up <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>