accessory pullies? (Megan vs. Isis vs. Circuit Sports)

[twin240s]

i got a question about the ka! i put in a aluminum crankshaft pulley on a semi stock block and i kept blowing out the front main seal. is there something special i need to do to make that not happen that i havent read about?? just curious

[Bryants95240sx]

Originally Posted by twin240s

i got a question about the ka! i put in a aluminum crankshaft pulley on a semi stock block and i kept blowing out the front main seal. is there something special i need to do to make that not happen that i havent read about?? just curious

If you keep blowing front mainseals then the pulley has too much runout....junk it

[titangts]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

If it destroys your water pump, your engine will over heat. If you are running the stock gauges, by the time you notice your engine is over heating chances are your motor is shot.

Stock gauges work fine.

lol not true. myself and friends have overheated many of times (bad luck shit) and motors are still fine..its just catching it. the problem is most people drive around and probably never even check their gauge out during a drive..they look when they see steam or smoke. i CONSTANTLY observe my gauges. i think i look more at my gauges than the road lol.

[brndck]

/\/\/\ honestly I check my gauges about every 15-20 seconds. Just a glance to male sure nothing is about to explode. Having warning lights helps, but so does paying attention.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by IHasLongTorso

Ixfxi and zar. I couldn't agree with you guys more. I truely wish there were no knockoff companies because then the "scene" as they say wouldn't be so flooded with these young kids who have no clue. But there are knockoff companies so this is what we have to put up with. I remember researching 10 years ago to find other cars' oem pulleys that were larger but had the same amount of ribs and using them as underdrive pulleys. Or just buying expensive brand name stuff. There no cleverness left with the knockoff companies butthere is a huge market for them so they are here. Also really when you think about it is it really needed to spend tripple the price on something like a catchcan or a coolant overflow tank? No. If you do its really just an elitest mindset some people have that makes them feel better. I know plenty of people who spend a lot of money and can't drive for a damn then on the other side I know several people who run knockoff everything and drive like bosses. Its all made in the same places anyway for the most part. Its just private label.

i dont agree. the money you spend goes towards the company which you support, and in return they support you when there is a problem. otherwise, we end up having our forum flooded with stupid questions about shitty products that have no customer support. then we have a bunch of self-proclaimed experts trying to be Mr Tech who may or may not be right, tons of mis-information.

Its not about how much you spend, its about what you buy and what you support. There have always been companies that are value oriented, I consider greddy to be one of them. I mean, I dont consider their parts expensive. Or gauges, I dont consider VDO to be expensive. There are a lot of reasonably priced things out there.. but when you need super baller DEFI setup, well.. then you are paying for something very fancy, more fancy than what most people need.

I want to say that 99% of the parts on my car are authentic if not custom made. The 1% kockoff part was given to me by Omikron because he happened to have it laying around... but whatever. At the end of the day, I dont have a mod list hanging from the ass of my car and I dont care to advertise this stuff... authentic or not, the parts that are on my car are my business and no one elses. This is why I hate US car magazines, they're all about giving props to the companies that have given you sponsored parts.. its a fucking advertisement.

Originally Posted by !Zar!

All they care about is building their Super Street grocery list.

Originally Posted by brndck

if the quality is there, i could give NONE fucks about what the name of the product is. i'm sure if you bought an hks product in their first year it left something to be desired.

Thats the problem d00d, the quality RARELY is there, its like 90% fail... 10% possible success. You just dont hear about high quality parts failing, because the parts are tested and raced with before theyre sold. You know, that thing called R&D. Im not saying its impossible, i'm just saying that chances are they dont. HKS, works bell, cusco, tomei, rays,......... make a list of failed parts and lets see how much we come up with. There is a reason why jay-dee-emm parts were/are so popular, and there is a reason why chinese companies copy them, and there is a reason why no one here is proud to have CDM parts on their cars. actually, i'll hang my balls out and say that i seriously doubt anyone has ever even used the term CDM (chinese domestic market) proudly for any of the cheap knockoff parts on their car. Does a CDM sticker even exist? I'll say NO, it fucking doesnt.

Originally Posted by twin240s

i got a question about the ka! i put in a aluminum crankshaft pulley on a semi stock block and i kept blowing out the front main seal. is there something special i need to do to make that not happen that i havent read about?? just curious

thats because these crank under-drive pulleys are garbage. get rid of that shit, its useless and doesnt do shit to improve performance. the best ones will lack harmonic dampening, the worst ones will probably have poor runout. if you seriously need a crank pulley, buy the ATI damper..

[revcyanide]

this guy

thissssss guyyyy
amiright?

[!Zar!]

Originally Posted by titangts

lol not true. myself and friends have overheated many of times (bad luck shit) and motors are still fine..its just catching it. the problem is most people drive around and probably never even check their gauge out during a drive..they look when they see steam or smoke. i CONSTANTLY observe my gauges. i think i look more at my gauges than the road lol.

Originally Posted by brndck

/\/\/\ honestly I check my gauges about every 15-20 seconds. Just a glance to male sure nothing is about to explode. Having warning lights helps, but so does paying attention.

The stock gauge reads only three settings, low, med, hot.

I've seen motors overheat before the gauge even went up.

As for the crank pulley, ATI or stock. Anything else just fucks your engine seals/bearings up.

[towlie]

I just purchased the TF pulley set. Quality looks superb and it will defiantly dress up my SR

Meh

[codyace]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

thats because these crank under-drive pulleys are garbage. get rid of that shit, its useless and doesnt do shit to improve performance. the best ones will lack harmonic dampening, the worst ones will probably have poor runout. if you seriously need a crank pulley, buy the ATI damper..

Just to get you excited, you typically see 5-8 whp on N/A SR20 with them. I'd relate 2-3 (edit) to dyno reading difference, but their is a slight gain. No different than a lightened flywheel.

If our dyno computer didn't eat a brown, I'd have current run files to show you.


And the entire 'dampened' vs whatever argument is so old it hurts. Show me where you can relate ANY engine failure to the undampened underdrive pulley, and I'll personally fly out there to give you a reach around. Of course after a beer. In all of my time, both street and track related, there has never ever ever been a case of Crank pulley enducing failure or even a remote instance of the crank pully being related to the issue. Edit - I can provide 2 example sof factory VQ pulleys seperating though.
\
Are they a wire choice to spend money on? no...less money can easily be spent elsewhere for equal gain. However their are some gains to be had with them.

[brndck]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

The stock gauge reads only three settings, low, med, hot.

I've seen motors overheat before the gauge even went up.

I really agree with u on this. I dont trust the oem temp gauge.
I trust my greddy gauges. Knowing exactly where my temps are gives me great peace of mind and is one of the reasons I still have the same SR after almost 8 years.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by codyace

And the entire 'dampened' vs whatever argument is so old it hurts. Show me where you can relate ANY engine failure to the undampened underdrive pulley, and I'll personally fly out there to give you a reach around. Of course after a beer. In all of my time, both street and track related, there has never ever ever been a case of Crank pulley enducing failure or even a remote instance of the crank pully being related to the issue. Edit - I can provide 2 example sof factory VQ pulleys seperating though.
\
Are they a wire choice to spend money on? no...less money can easily be spent elsewhere for equal gain. However their are some gains to be had with them.

much like getting rid of the clutch fan, the gains are negligible. for instance, i prefer having no clutch fan and shroud and using the electric fans... as long as the car isnt going to sit in traffic and what not. e-fans are more efficient until you use them for long periods of time, then they drain the electrical system and use your alternator.. so its a waste. but if you want a clean looking engine bay, ease of working in the engine bay, and cut out a small parasitic loss.. go for it.

the underdrive crank pulley is a heap of shit.. unorthodox racing tried to give me some shpeil about it not effecting the charging system. horseshit. i recall my wipers crawling along at idle because the alternator wasnt working as it should, i'de have to rev to 2k just to get the charge back. what am i gaining? shit. my friend at overboost wrote a tech article showing the differences in harmonics when he measured stock damper vs undampened race pulley. its pointless and puts your engine at risk.

bottom line, its not about it causing damage... its about it increasing the risks for negligible increase in performance. anyone with a working brain should say "yeah, probably not worth it, all things considering"

[codyace]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

much like getting rid of the clutch fan, the gains are negligible. for instance, i prefer having no clutch fan and shroud and using the electric fans... as long as the car isnt going to sit in traffic and what not. e-fans are more efficient until you use them for long periods of time, then they drain the electrical system and use your alternator.. so its a waste. but if you want a clean looking engine bay, ease of working in the engine bay, and cut out a small parasitic loss.. go for it.

So would you go as far as to say that properly wired E-Fans overly stress the system at idle? I've personally never seen that, and just checked over logs of my car and didn't see any indication of that either. Top end yes, but nothing at idle.

Originally Posted by ixfxi

the underdrive crank pulley is a heap of shit.. unorthodox racing tried to give me some shpeil about it not effecting the charging system. horseshit. i recall my wipers crawling along at idle because the alternator wasnt working as it should, i'de have to rev to 2k just to get the charge back. what am i gaining? shit.

I've never ever had an issue on any SR with that...same can be said for the domestic cars I've played with as well.

Originally Posted by ixfxi

my friend at overboost wrote a tech article showing the differences in harmonics when he measured stock damper vs undampened race pulley. its pointless and puts your engine at risk.

bottom line, its not about it causing damage... its about it increasing the risks for negligible increase in performance. anyone with a working brain should say "yeah, probably not worth it, all things considering"

Without a doubt I can understand the con's of the system, and would even go as far to agree that it's not the best power per dollar (which I stated in my original post) but I do not believe, nor will I ever buy into the idea that they cause premature bearing wear or failure during the normal lifespan of a car. Sure the harmonic dapening ability may not be there, but how much does the lack of dapening really play a role on a street car

The use of it is all relative; to run off your point, anyone with half a brain should realize their are plenty of other things proven to be more dangerous that continue to be bought and sold. I hate to sound so damn redneck about it, but I have read all of the engineering behind why they suck, but have seen little proof (as in, broken junk) because of it. I know I know, works <> right, but there needs to be more cases for me to really believe into it.

[!Zar!]

I know on higher power 2jz's the ATI crank pulley is a must. I bought a car with some shitty aluminum one installed. Few months later it doing the shimmy.

[bardabe]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

As for the crank pulley, ATI or stock. Anything else just fucks your engine seals/bearings up.

i have to disagree with you here, I have been installing under drive light weight crank pulleys with light weight flywheels on SR and VG's all day even VQ's and never had a problem with them. it is a HUGE misconception people have about light weight pulleys. as long as you buy a quality made light weight pulley you will be ok.

reason people are breaking things is because they are buying those cheap pulleys that are "out of round" i personally recommend Unorthrodox Racing. (UR) or ATI everything else is just a cheap Taiwanese/Chinese Knock off.

[!Zar!]

I think most of this thread is based off the shitty ones, being as how OP doesn't want to pay money for one from a reputable one.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by bardabe

i have to disagree with you here, I have been installing under drive light weight crank pulleys with light weight flywheels on SR and VG's all day even VQ's and never had a problem with them. it is a HUGE misconception people have about light weight pulleys. as long as you buy a quality made light weight pulley you will be ok.

reason people are breaking things is because they are buying those cheap pulleys that are "out of round" i personally recommend Unorthrodox Racing. (UR) or ATI everything else is just a cheap Taiwanese/Chinese Knock off.

Without a doubt the quality american based brands, and quality JDm brands are the only way I'd go, but in the other aspect of things, how 'off' could many of thse pulleys really be? For the shits of it I'd love to measure (officially) the knock off ones to see how far out they really are.

But yes, I too have never ever ever had or seen a issue related to a quality underdrive pulley, nor have I seen any issue 'bottom end' related to cars with the dampening material all but shot or missing in them (as above I've seen two Maxima's now with the dampener being seperated).

Originally Posted by !Zar!

I think most of this thread is based off the shitty ones, being as how OP doesn't want to pay money for one from a reputable one.

Offtopic, but have ever wondered how half of these cheapasses live in normal life? I'm just imaginging a ton of fast food and snacks, thus causing them to be broke. Or maybe they're just plain idiots? Or maybe their allowances don't allow it.

[Matej]

The ATI crank pulley seems pretty cool. If you do not have one already, I would splurge on that before accessory pulleys.

That being said, I have OBX accessory pulleys on my KA. The water pulley is quite a bit larger than the stock one, and the alternator and power steering pulleys appear to be about the same size. They are all noticeably lighter than their stock counterparts, although the benefit is most likely miniscule. So far they have not caused any trouble.

I also used to have the Unorthodox crank pulley. The car definitely revved quicker, and I never had a problem with it. However, I felt very paranoid using it with all the things I kept reading about undamped crank pulleys, and just staring it at mounted on the motor it appears all weak and brittle and unsafe-looking. I ended up switching back to the OEM crank pulley. Eventually, I may purchase the ATI damper.

[nighthawk48]

Originally Posted by illvialuver

you dont even need pulleys, just get an ls. . .

lol


GReddy over ISIS...from my friend's set up I can only see the color wearing out on the ISIS over time, other than that they look the same and feel the same. He hasn't had any problems yet.

[!Zar!]

I'm pretty sure they all fade after time.

[Promise Land]

Why not paint or powdercoat the OEM ones if you just want some prettier ones? Someone suggested powdercoat previously.

[BlackZenkiS14]

lol Im just gonna rock the OEM ones, until I can afford the Greddy ones or find a good deal on them.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by codyace

So would you go as far as to say that properly wired E-Fans overly stress the system at idle? I've personally never seen that, and just checked over logs of my car and didn't see any indication of that either. Top end yes, but nothing at idle.

Without a doubt I can understand the con's of the system, and would even go as far to agree that it's not the best power per dollar (which I stated in my original post) but I do not believe, nor will I ever buy into the idea that they cause premature bearing wear or failure during the normal lifespan of a car. Sure the harmonic dapening ability may not be there, but how much does the lack of dapening really play a role on a street car

Read:
ATI - Crankshaft Dampers 101
ATI - The Dangers of Power Pulleys & Understanding the Harmonic Damper

Harmonics are not a joke, its a pretty complex subject that you can spend a lot of time researching. All I can say is read up.

As for the e-fan debate, its been discussed to death... my best suggestion would be to look at your fans and how many amps they consume, then look at your charging system and see how many amps you replenish. You need to look at how much time you spend in traffic. Cars that sit in traffic would benefit from a clutch-type fan, cars that dont sit in traffic would benefit from a e-fan. This is one of the reasons I dont think a RB or any straight-6 is designed for our cars, insufficient room for cooling.

Originally Posted by bardabe

i have to disagree with you here, I have been installing under drive light weight crank pulleys with light weight flywheels on SR and VG's all day even VQ's and never had a problem with them. it is a HUGE misconception people have about light weight pulleys. as long as you buy a quality made light weight pulley you will be ok.

reason people are breaking things is because they are buying those cheap pulleys that are "out of round" i personally recommend Unorthrodox Racing. (UR) or ATI everything else is just a cheap Taiwanese/Chinese Knock off.

well, thats an opinion based on your experience. and just because you install the parts, doesnt mean that you're qualified to do long-term testing and prove or disprove the issue here. i mean, you'de need to have a test-lab type environment to really put this topic to end. all i want to say is, that too many people spend money on parts and they have no fucking clue whether or not the part is an upgrade or downgrade. They just install shit that they add to a mod-list and call it an upgrade.

Originally Posted by Matej

The ATI crank pulley seems pretty cool. If you do not have one already, I would splurge on that before accessory pulleys. I also used to have the Unorthodox crank pulley. The car definitely revved quicker, and I never had a problem with it. However, I felt very paranoid using it with all the things I kept reading about undamped crank pulleys, and just staring it at mounted on the motor it appears all weak and brittle and unsafe-looking. I ended up switching back to the OEM crank pulley. Eventually, I may purchase the ATI damper.

I used to have a UR pulley, maybe 10 years ago. I didnt think it rev'ved faster or slower.. if thats the case, then my car should rev even faster when I got rid of the AC and PS. Nothing really changed.

Originally Posted by !Zar!

I'm pretty sure they all fade after time.

All anodized coatings fade, as far as I know.

Originally Posted by Promise Land

Why not paint or powdercoat the OEM ones if you just want some prettier ones? Someone suggested powdercoat previously.

I powdercoated my stock pulleys. Paint works too, nothing special about powdercoating.

[Corbic]

I've used Circuit Sport products in the past. Absolute garbage.

The coating/paint used is shit and they will rust in front of your eyes.

[towlie]

heres the TF kit I purchased



No air gun so the alt stays stock